I think the title here pretty much says it all. I think that having this adjustment would help other jobs with healing capabilities see more action such as RDM and SCH and also alleviate that condition when you're 5/6 and all you need is a healer but no WHM wants to come for the party. Have it scale with the Healing Magic skill and MND so that way it's not overpowered at lower levels and as a subjob.
Give Healing Magic treatment similar to Elemental Magic.
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03-31-2014, 01:26 AMXeriusGive Healing Magic treatment similar to Elemental Magic.
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04-01-2014, 04:04 AMUnderpanties
They already did this a long time ago. Healing Magic Skill used to do little to nothing to help cure potency, and all cures were soft-capped at low values, requiring huge amounts of mnd/magic skill to raise the cure value by 1 point.
Other jobs can easily heal in place of whm for all but the most difficult content. I actually prefer to main heal as sch for skirmishes and 109 paper fights, as sch's playstyle is much more preparation and mitigating dmg, as opposed to whm's reactionary-style, and fixing the damage after the fact.
If they want other classes to compete for the harder stuff, other classes will need more access to burst-style healing to recover from a big 1500+ aoe hit. Possibly a JA similar to SCH's Rapture, or adjustments to Divine Seal to make it a 1 min recast. -
04-09-2014, 12:58 AMsweetidealism
While it's been pointed out that healing magic did indeed already receive a pretty large boost, I find I must at least agree with the OP's sentiment.
Currently, WHM is unequivocally the best healer in every endgame setting. We need a few situations in which other jobs perform better than WHM, and in most situations, we need to be allowed more interchangeability between main healing jobs. I define main healing jobs as being any job that is innately able to get Cure IV or an equivalent, cast a heal whenever needed, and realistically wear enough potency gear to cap: in other words WHM, RDM, BLU, DNC, SCH.
There is such a huge gap between a WHM's ability to function as main healer and any other main healing job's ability to do the same that if a WHM cannot be found, then the group is either going to disband or continue waiting, likely for an inordinate amount of time, for one to show up. Meanwhile, any number of the other four jobs I defined as main healers may be available, but they are tragically insufficient for the role because all current endgame content requires WHM's vast array of potent tools.
Let's bridge the gap. Increase the variety of ways non-WHM main healing jobs can contribute to healing. Let each healer specialize in unique, but desirable ways. Consider creating content in which more than one healer is required, and in which those healers are ideally different types offering their new unique aspects-- not just more WHMs. No healing class should clearly be the best for every situation. Let each healer shine in situations tailored to their traits, but be acceptable replacements in other situations too. -
04-09-2014, 03:33 AMRedryno
While we are at it lets give WHMs Regen V and Refresh II.
Each job has its niche and healing is WHM's, if you get rid of it's niche WHMs will disappear. -
04-09-2014, 06:35 AMDeifactI disagree with Refresh II, that's a support spell not healing. SCH is apparently the HoT master so they should probably not give Regen V to WHM either.Quote:
Originally Posted by Redryno
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04-09-2014, 09:49 AMDragomairI think he was trying to prove the point that WHMs only have healing whereas sch's and rdm's have other skills that put them way ahead in most or all aspectsQuote:
Originally Posted by Deifact
SCHs can stun and do elemental magic (and HoT)
RDMs can enfeeble stun and do elemental magic (and have convert and refresh)
Giving RDM or SCH more skill in healing puts whm way behind. WHMs have no other desirable aspect other than their healing. -
04-17-2014, 05:26 AMDamaneQuote:
Originally Posted by Dragomair
whms can nuke very efficiently with /sch and tier 1 nukes, especially if you have some augmented MAB artsieq gear and some other stuff together.
rdm and sch healing istn impossible, its jsut much much much easier to heal on whm (like really piss easy). I do belive tough that leaving out 1 healer against 19 other jobs is wrong there should be a balance, we have 3 tanks various melees, various supporters, but only 1 from the community accepted healer. Somethings wrong there dont you think ¬.¬ I dont mind upping Schs and Rdms healing capabilitys in exchange for makeing banish and holy much stronger nukes. -
04-17-2014, 06:04 AMMartel
I'd be pretty pleased at the idea of white magic nukes getting the same kinda revamp as black magic did. Although I admit, that's more for my PLD and Divine Emblem+Holy II than for my WHM.
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04-17-2014, 06:18 AMRedrynoLMAO... stop your going to make me pee myself!Quote:
Originally Posted by Damane
MNK WAR and SAM? because lets face it you need to hold hate to be a tank.Quote:
Originally Posted by Damane
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04-17-2014, 07:27 AMMalitharJust with a 119 staff alone, you're capable of decent tier 1s, specifically Stone I spam, so you're not burning through MP for negligible differences in damage. Since you're doing it as Whm/Sch, you're able to self Sandstorm yourself as well. No real reason NOT to do this, at a minimum. Could go all out and tailor 119 plasm sets to gain a good 100+ MAB as well, not to mention all of the accessories for +MDmg and MAB that Whm finds itself on.Quote:
Originally Posted by Redryno
I suppose you'd laugh if someone mentioned that Smn/Sch is a more than competent nuker as well? Funny enough, it's even better than Whm/Sch, being on Hagondes. Talk about an MP dump though, foregoing all your -perp and burning MP on nukes adds up quick without proper support.
tl;dr: Any job that's on a 119 staff is more than capable of nuking as /Sch. -
04-18-2014, 07:42 AMsaevel
WHM and SCH are fairly balanced in the healing department. The reason we pick WHM is two fold, first is they are the kings of AoE curing and everything in this game likes to spam AOE's, second is ST cures get cureskin which often saves people's lives when the NM is being evil. SCH has those massive Regens that make every WHM jealous, this makes SCH the kings of hate free healing / super cheap healing. It just happens to be that our fights these days cater more to WHM healing, though SCH does an amazing job in AA fights.
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04-22-2014, 09:48 AMOphannus
RDM and SCH are better healers than WHM when there's only one target to heal. For example in a VD Ark Angel fight where you use RNG as your main source of damage with only the PLD taking any damage, I'd rather have a good RDM or SCH than a WHM. Sure WHM gets cureskin and Cure V/VI but those are superfluous because ideally the PLD should never get rocked hard enough to warrant such a powerful heal. I've main healed on SCH and RDM on VD AA fights with RNG setups and RDM can Para/Slow/Grav/Dia the NM and still Cure IV instantly for 850+ while casting Haste and -na's and Phalanxing the PLD. SCH can do the same but also Adoloquiem the RNGs, give Regen V which on PLD basically means they dont even need to be cured at all, can virtually afk if they have Ochain even in a VD fight.
The only content I see WHM clearly outclassing other healers is with melee setups where you need Curagas. For 6man fights, RDM and SCH are VERY viable and I have attested to that personally, and sometimes offer competitive edges vs WHM. Another example is Tenzen fight. Can help sleep Tarus, and since DDs have /NIN they don't need to be cured pretty much ever until he does Skillchains. -
04-27-2014, 06:59 AMsweetidealism
Personally, I feel that, at the very least, WHM RDM and SCH should each be much closer to each other in terms of main healing capabilities. I think this could be achieved by giving SCH and RDM more tools to specialize their healing styles.
WHM is and should remain the master of direct, reactionary healing throughput and aoe.
SCH, as the master of passive healing via Regen, could perhaps get an ability that speeds up the rate at which Regen ticks, and/or another that spends the remaining duration of a Regen for an instant heal, and more gear to keep a clear superiority over the other jobs in terms of Regen potency. Perhaps also a spell could be added that makes it so that whenever the target takes damage, they immediately heal for a certain amount, similar to Dread Spikes but able to be cast on others and without draining it from the target.
RDM, meanwhile, should be the master of mitigation, and so needs an increase in potency for Phalanx and Phalanx II (which should have been made a scroll instead of part of a merit category a long time ago now), maybe an self-centered aoe Phalanx III with low potency. Although I'm certain this will be controversial, I wholeheartedly believe that the stoneskin effect from curing should be removed from afflatus solace and added to composure. I would also love to see a Stoneskin II and Blink II that could target other players, too, especially if Stoneskin II could stack with other stoneskin effects. -
04-28-2014, 04:35 PMMalitharOne issue with everything you listed. You're comparing Whm to Rdm or Sch in situations where you don't need the healing prowess that Whm offers. I mean, if we're going that far, there's been a number of times that I've healed my groups Pld as Geo/Rdm or Whm (if -nas are needed and Brd is lazy or a pug) in AAs. Pld Brd Geo 3x Rng, fun stuff.Quote:
Originally Posted by Ophannus
At the end of the day, when you need a job that can heal a group for content where healing is required, you're looking for a Whm. The specific healing tools that Sch or Rdm brings pales in comparison to what Whm has available. Now, as you said, if those healing tools aren't needed, then Sch, Rdm, or any other /Rdm or /Whm mage is generally plenty capable of filling in the gap, and occupying their own niche, whether that's nukes, buffs, debuffs, DD, Smn shenanigans, etc. -
04-28-2014, 08:43 PMAppropriateName5786Actually, even in the cases you listed, the only thing a RDM would do better than a WHM is Gravity, which counts for...nothing really. For all intents and purposes, WHM can enfeeble just as well as RDM, and WHM can cure for so little MP with Orison Pantaloons +2, Light Arts, and Conserve MP that giving them Refresh II would be redundant. Sure a SCH can give Firestorm and Adloquium to the RNGs, but Boost-STR is a much bigger boost in general (Adloquium = 1 ws/5 minutes). You also have Arise, Cureskin, Devotion, Benediction, Sacrosanctity, and Cure V and Cure VI when crap hits the fan. How does a RDM deal with massive AoE when something goes wrong? Spam Cure IV and Cure III on 6 different people? Use Cure IV with your two whole stratagems (Accession) on the DD that are running everywhere and trying to Shadowbind the target? No matter how you look at it, WHM has better tools than SCH and RDM, and that's not right. And just a quick FYI, WHM with the right gear can now make Regen IV equal to Regen V in everything but duration.Quote:
Originally Posted by Ophannus
You mean like....everything except some AA fights and Marjami Delve? That's good enough I guess. RDM can heal one target and debuff things with Gravity and SCH can Accession > Regen V in NNI so they're completely balanced! Nothing to look at here, nope.Quote:
Originally Posted by Ophannus
I'm not sure which 6-man fights you're referring to, but I really don't see how this is possible. If you have a BRD for Tenzen, then he should be doing the sleeping. When Tenzen does his super move, a RDM cannot compete with Benediction. In Skirmish, you'd have to specially tailor your group so that you have ranged DDs who don't get hit constantly with debuffs and AoE. I've healed many Ra'ka runs as SCH and after a while I just geared WHM and it became 10x easier. There is simply too much AoE, and you will permanently be out of stratagems from Accession + Erase or Cure IV, not to mention out of MP because you don't get the Orison Pantaloons bonus.Quote:
Originally Posted by Ophannus
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04-29-2014, 12:23 AMSasaraixxI thought this was not the case. Isn't the +Regen on WHM gear a +%?Quote:
Originally Posted by AppropriateName5786
I would like the idea of slightly improving RDM and SCH healing capabilities. As it stands healing falls into two categories. Either you have to have a WHM or pretty much any Mage is capable of doing the healing.
I like the idea someone posted about improving RDM's ability to mitigate damage. That along with improving its enfeebling spells would make it an attractive healer in some fights.
Really making SCH a master of healing over time and giving it some abilities to convert those regens into burst healing or giving it a few more options for aoe healing would be a nice change. If they ever fix enmity and the animus spells, that could also be a nice boost for SCH.
I also think it wouldn't be a bad idea to improve the banish line of spells if they rebalance the healing jobs. Allowing WHM to excel in light damage wouldn't necessarily be a bad thing and it would be nice for PLD too perhaps. They could make the effect against undead more pronounced too. -
04-29-2014, 03:04 AMRedryno
That moment you realize time spent complaining about white mage could have been used to level white mage.
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedi...alm_statue.jpg -
04-29-2014, 04:43 PMsweetidealismYay, acknowledgement! I'm glad to hear that at least one person likes my idea. :DQuote:
Originally Posted by Sasaraixx
Improving RDM's enfeebles and SCH's enmity spells would both certainly be welcome changes too. I'm also all for improving divine magic to buff WHM and PLD, but I don't think they really need it.