Rereleasing FFXI

Couldn't we get a re-release of FFXI with updated graphics for the Computer and other systems that can handle it, while keeping everyone on the same server and such? I know it could be a matter of not hurting anyone's feelings because some people wouldn't have the means to play the updated game, but I'm sure it would help bring it back to live some.

As much as i would love the idea of FFXI With better graphics/FPS Rate/etc...

I think its just too late in the game to implement something like this. Plus the population is dwindling, Slowly, But still doing so. A lot come and a lot go.

Plus I'm pretty sure its expensive and time-heavy to do something like this, It would be for the most part redesigning a big chunk of the game. I just don't see the man-hours being put into it :\, if its even possible at all.

So while I like it... I don't see it happening =x

I get the distinct impression that the OP wants all of us players without major-money gaming rigs (computer and console) to GTFO... Would I be correct in this assumption?

only you starcade. maybe casual also. stop looking to cause trouble where there wasnt any to begin with.

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Originally Posted by Starcade

I get the distinct impression that the OP wants all of us players without major-money gaming rigs (computer and console) to GTFO... Would I be correct in this assumption?

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No Not that at all! I just don't want that to be a factor holding the developers in redoing the game, because when I ask my friends what they think they say this cant handle it or that cant handle it. Can't we have two different types of games? One with revamped graphics and stuff and the original game?

I would have really liked if SE or who ever decides these things would have put the time and effort that they did in FF 14 into XI, I don't think it would be too late if they made a bigger effort for people to see the game out there. Everyone knows what Wow is because of TV etc, why don't they do something like that? (No Mr.T Please)

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Originally Posted by Kiroko

I would have really liked if SE or who ever decides these things would have put the time and effort that they did in FF 14 into XI, I don't think it would be too late if they made a bigger effort for people to see the game out there. Everyone knows what Wow is because of TV etc, why don't they do something like that? (No Mr.T Please)

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Blizzard is an American company, so we here in the US see a ton of their advertisements. Square Enix is a Japanese company, so people living in Japan see tons of Final Fantasy XI advertisements. They have magazines, billboards, posters, merchandise, the works.

I don't think FFXIV even got that much publicity over here aside from gaming-specific news outlets, which is all FFXI ever got. I've never seen a FF14 TV commercial or magazine ad. The company just does not seem to feel that the advertising dollars are worth spending overseas. It's not uncommon, really. The EU, as far as I know, gets that sort of treatment a lot.

Edit: On Topic, I'm sure the Dev team would love to do this. Hell, any Dev team would. But I highly doubt they'll get approval for the time, the man-hours, the extra workforce, etc. Even if the Devs we currently have were to attempt something like this (assuming they have even have people who can do this sort of work already on staff), we'd be looking at a year+ without any updates to the game while they worked on it.

Thing is, we could have gotten a 'high resolution' version for this game long ago had they wanted it.

What we're using is a client, all of the textures and important data, like wall collisions and such, are already on our computer/console. The only thing the server does is passing position coordinates and data like text, actions, damage and such. How the data is managed and then drawn on screen is entirely the client's work.

So technically speaking they could make a PC version that far surpasses the looks of the PS2, the Xbox360 probably could as well. But that would require going back into the 7gb of data already there, and redraw all of the pieces of gear, zones and what not, so they would be higher quality. Each piece of gear is also drawn differently for all races, so that'd be 5 (or 8 if they also count gender differences) times redrawing and refitting the equipment every time they add new ones, plus redoing the older ones.

Also, it would obviously increase the game size by alot to support both types of renditions, the new textures alone would take more space. It's alot of time and effort spent for an 8 years old game on the decline.

If they could separate the consoles like that, while at it they could also break out of the whole 'PS2 limitations' thing, but then it would also break the 'sync' between the consoles, which they have tried to preserve. The developers wanted all consoles to be equal, without one having an 'unfair advantage'. PC being able to handle higher resolutions is not an unfair advantage per say, PS2 at least has constant framerate at what it does, PC has too many variables involved in hardware and software.

Just to say that while not impossible to have a higher rendition of the game on PC or 360, I doubt they would put the manpower on doing this.

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Originally Posted by Starcade

I get the distinct impression that the OP wants all of us players without major-money gaming rigs (computer and console) to GTFO... Would I be correct in this assumption?

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Completely wrong. A more efficient graphics engine will benefit low and mid-end computers a lot as well. Even a low end (by 2006 standards) is only able to utilise a tiny fraction of its total power to run FF11. Graphics engines can be made to be very scalable, letting low-end computers run the game at low settings (which would look like FF11 does today), while high end computers would be able to make it look and run better.

Of course, I don't see something like this ever happening, but one can always hope. For me, it would be the best thing to happen to online gaming since a very long time ago.

@Celedh

I think the game could be made a lot prettier and better-performing without redoing any of the textures or 3D models. Just letting the game use the 3D card to do the rendering and antialiasing would improve a lot. Imagine 100 character/mob models on screen, 8x antialiasing, 1920x1200, still running at 60fps. That wouldn't even make a mid-end graphics card of today break a sweat.

-edit-
And real reflections in metallic surfaces!
And a bit of HDR!

I think something that would be much more beneficial right now is allowing the PC version to use the full power of current computers and graphic cards.

The system doesn't even let you use Multi-Core processing, so you end up using only the speed of a single core. I'm sure there are alot of options that aren't supported by newer graphic cards, I don't have the feeling my game is running more smoothly even after getting a new card.

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Originally Posted by Celedh

I think something that would be much more beneficial right now is allowing the PC version to use the full power of current computers and graphic cards.

The system doesn't even let you use Multi-Core processing, so you end up using only the speed of a single core. I'm sure there are alot of options that aren't supported by newer graphic cards, I don't have the feeling my game is running more smoothly even after getting a new card.

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Almost all of the rendering takes place on your CPU, on a single core of it. The only stat on a video card that "really" affects the game is the memory bandwidth, and that stopped to be a bottleneck somewhere around Geforce 7900 (or equivalent). Multicore support wouldn't be very helpful to this game, I think. Except the graphics, there isn't a lot of things that needs to be processed by the CPU in this game. Just getting the graphics over on the GPU would solve practically all performance issues.

However, making the game utilize a GPU properly is probably quite a bit of work, and that's why we probably won't see it happening.

I was tossing that in because it seems there are still instances that I'm not getting 30 frames a second.

Dualcore 2.8ghz, 4gb RAM, Geforce GTX250. It's not the top of the line, but it's miles beyond what the game should need. Yet, still having choppy framerate at times for some reason. Unless there are settings I don't know about, I'd say that giving it the whole CPU and GPU speed would help with that. I'm playing without Shadows or Weather Effects as well, makes no sense.

It's not as easy as "giving it" the entire CPU, though. If you take away the graphics part, a single core of a modern PC would be way more than the game would ever need. The only reason why FF11 is very CPU dependent is that practically all the 3D rendering is happening on the CPU as well, not on the GPU where it really belongs.

If the game did the 3D on the GPU like every other game in the world, the fact that it only uses a single core would be of no significance, because apart from the 3D, the game uses very little CPU power.

I guess if you really wanted to and had the means to you could update the game yourself if you had the programs, for all we know there is some person out there who updated most of their game in some way,shape, or form, and is playing in it as we speak.

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Originally Posted by Starcade

I get the distinct impression that the OP wants all of us players without major-money gaming rigs (computer and console) to GTFO... Would I be correct in this assumption?

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The Unreal 3 engine scales quite well on lesser hardware platforms so better graphics doesn't have to exclude midrange and low end systems.

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Originally Posted by Mirage

If the game did the 3D on the GPU like every other game in the world, the fact that it only uses a single core would be of no significance, because apart from the 3D, the game uses very little CPU power.

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I don't know where this "FFXI doesn't render on the GPU" started but FFXI does not use software rendering. It does use D3D8.DLL so it doesn't use a lot of the features of modern video cards but it isn't correct to say that it doesn't use the GPU.

If this were the case it wouldn't require a card with transformation and lighting and it also wouldn't have compatibility problems with Windows Vista and Window's 7's pixel and vertex shader implementation because it wouldn't use them.

It doesn't require a card with transform and lighting. The box says it does, but it's no problem to make it run without that.

It basically uses the video card as a glorified frame buffer, not much else.

Umm, I remember when I started playing this game i had to upgrade my graphics card since it didn't have that, and even workarounds just gave me a mess of white boxes.

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Originally Posted by Mirage

It doesn't require a card with transform and lighting. The box says it does, but it's no problem to make it run without that.

It basically uses the video card as a glorified frame buffer, not much else.

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You have to use a T&L emulator to make it run if your video card doesn't support it. That is not the same thing as "not needing it"

It also needs Pixel Shader 1.0 and Vertex Shader 1.0. After a lot of testing I found out that this was what was causing the rendering errors on certain objects (such as Roc's wings) in Windows 7 and Vista. Windows 7/Vista forces applications to use at least Shader Model 2.0. Restricting the video card to Shader Model 1.0 will fix this problem (but also disable Windows Aero)

If you disable DXT texture compression on your video card all geometry (models landscapes and polygon "billboards") become flat shaded white polygons.

Forced FSAA actually works in FFXI with Catalyst 11.1 and higher if you set the Background to match the Overlay resolution. It's very slow when you enable shadows, but it works.

And finally, FFXI would not need D3D8.dll if it wasn't using the GPU.

well if it's not that, why does it run so poorly?

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Originally Posted by Greatguardian

Blizzard is an American company, so we here in the US see a ton of their advertisements. Square Enix is a Japanese company, so people living in Japan see tons of Final Fantasy XI advertisements. They have magazines, billboards, posters, merchandise, the works.

I don't think FFXIV even got that much publicity over here aside from gaming-specific news outlets, which is all FFXI ever got. I've never seen a FF14 TV commercial or magazine ad. The company just does not seem to feel that the advertising dollars are worth spending overseas. It's not uncommon, really. The EU, as far as I know, gets that sort of treatment a lot.

Edit: On Topic, I'm sure the Dev team would love to do this. Hell, any Dev team would. But I highly doubt they'll get approval for the time, the man-hours, the extra workforce, etc. Even if the Devs we currently have were to attempt something like this (assuming they have even have people who can do this sort of work already on staff), we'd be looking at a year+ without any updates to the game while they worked on it.

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They seemed to have worked on expansions and add ons perfectly fine while still providing updates to the game, which I'm sure was no more or less difficult than working on new graphics. Work is work. I much prefer them to work on content over graphics but let's face it, as long as the PS2 is supported FFXI isn't going much further expansion wise. Eventually all they'll have left is a graphical update for PC users.

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Originally Posted by Mirage

well if it's not that, why does it run so poorly?

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They probably want a unified codebase that they can compile to PS2 Windows and Xbox 360. I would guess that they use wrappers and just compile the core PS2 code for the Windows and 360 versions of the client.

while they are at it they could fix all the failbox glitches and make a PS3 version so the ps2 can GTFO

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Originally Posted by Starcade

I get the distinct impression that the OP wants all of us players without major-money gaming rigs (computer and console) to GTFO... Would I be correct in this assumption?

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Pretty much correct. GTFO.

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Originally Posted by Karbuncle

As much as i would love the idea of FFXI With better graphics/FPS Rate/etc...

I think its just too late in the game to implement something like this. Plus the population is dwindling, Slowly, But still doing so. A lot come and a lot go.

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WoW did it, come on SE, jump on the band wagon!

WoW didn't redo their entire graphics engine, they just improved on one that was already much more efficient and PC-optimized.

Also, they have 12 million subscribers, they can afford anything.

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Originally Posted by Mirage

WoW didn't redo their entire graphics engine, they just improved on one that was already much more efficient and PC-optimized.

Also, they have 12 million subscribers, they can afford anything.

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They do now have 12 million subscribers. They have 12 million characters created. And it wasn't just a re-optimization, they were smoothed and made more detailed.

Upgrading the graphics is certainly doable with FFXI. Since all the game data is on our computers to begin with and all the servers do is tell our computer where everything is, what graphics/skins to upload from the database, and what animation or action an object is doing it certainly wouldn't effect the gameplay server side.

But like others have said, it's pretty late in the games predicted lifespan, and rehauling graphics would certainly be overly painstaking and costly for a game who's remaining lifespan is unpredictable.

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Originally Posted by Swords

But like others have said, it's pretty late in the games predicted lifespan, and rehauling graphics would certainly be overly painstaking for a game that has an unpredictable expected lifespan.

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It's not a late game issue. It's because SE tried to end all FFXI content in favor of FFXIV. Which we all know what happened there. Now they have to re-evaluate their stance on FFXI which leaves a perfect oportunity for an update in these regards to rekindle the player base.

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Originally Posted by Tsukino_Kaji

They do now have 12 million subscribers. They have 12 million characters created. And it wasn't just a re-optimization, they were smoothed and made more detailed.

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They had 10 million subscribers in 2008, and it has increased since then.

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Originally Posted by Mirage

They had 10 million subscribers in 2008, and it has increased since then.

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Blizzard likes to over state it's numbers a lot. lol

Agreed, prolly at least 50% of those numbers are mules and not actual players.

if they ever re-release ffxi, i would want it to be an non-massively multiplayer orpg, meaning i can go at it single player or local multiplayer / online multiplayer (via Playstation Network or Xbox Live).

This would require the game to be completely reprogrammed and a demand for such a game, so i find it just as unlikely for them to implement this idea as it would to re-release our current ffxi with better graphics and updated features.

Be happy that the game's life is being extended due to the fact that FFXIV is not generating any profit right now. Everyone that plays obviously wishes for an updated game. It's FFXIV. If they keep implementing changes based on what their player base (mostly Previous ffxi players) wishes, it'll probably end up an updated FFXI in a different world.

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Originally Posted by Miiyo

Be happy that the game's life is being extended due to the fact that FFXIV is not generating any profit right now. Everyone that plays obviously wishes for an updated game. It's FFXIV. If they keep implementing changes based on what their player base (mostly Previous ffxi players) wishes, it'll probably end up an updated FFXI in a different world.

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That's the problem though. Eorzea is a blander and less interesting version of Vana'diel populated by blander and less interesting versions of Vana'diel's races. Nothing about it's world and lore makes me want to play it very much.

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Originally Posted by Tsukino_Kaji

Blizzard likes to over state it's numbers a lot. lol

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Source on that? Perhaps you can link to a source that's more accurate.

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Originally Posted by Swords

Agreed, prolly at least 50% of those numbers are mules and not actual players.

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Even 5 million players is still a shitload more subscribers than FF11's got, so my point still stands.

And if it was "characters" it wouldn't be saying "subscribers". One subscriber is one paying account.

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Originally Posted by Atomic_Skull

That's the problem though. Eorzea is a blander and less interesting version of Vana'diel populated by blander and less interesting versions of Vana'diel's races. Nothing about it's world and lore makes me want to play it very much.

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NO! LALAFELL ARE THE BESTEST! I agree with the rest! And give the game time. FFXI had much less to do with it first came out!

The investment would be enormous and the payoff would be....what exactly? People who are going to continue to subscribe anyway do just that? Yes it would look prettier for everyone who could run the improved graphics, but that doesn't seem likely to draw in any new customers and only possibly retain a few.

On a slightly different note, it's quite possible to run FFXI in a higher resolution by toying with the registry editor ever so slightly (note that I'm not recommending or condoning this -- it may be against the TOS but I'm not really sure) and of course people make interesting .dat swaps for themselves and other enthusiasts. If SE were to, well, firstly allow .dat swapping in some form or fashion, and secondly release some rudimentary tools for file conversion I'd bet fans could have the entire project done fairly quickly.

It would actually be a rather interesting event if SE were to distribute currently used models/ animations/ textures, allow users to players to edit them (assuming said players had capable software), players then submit them back to SE for approval and they're optionally patched in at a later date. Not that it would ever happen, but it would be cool.

Ive always said Please Square shamelessly rip off FFXI and put it in FFXIV, that would be one way, put all the things that work and are loved in FFXI and carry it over.