A few changes I would like to see.

Delete Post please, Not posting in Troll forums anymore.

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Originally Posted by Grimlocke

4. Porter Moogle Key items:

I'm sure alot of you have tons of items loaded into the porter moogle. You go to gear up your favorite job and when you get there you realize you forgot your porter moogle slip #8. It doesnt happen to everyone or all the time. But I think this would make changing jobs a little more efficient, and save us some inventory space if we could change these slips to be Key items.

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I believe we got a response on this issue. Something to the extent of it would be difficult or impossible to implement as key items since the storage data is saved/directly tied to the storage slip item (similar to how you can have unique augments on a particular piece of gear), whereas all key items are the same for all players.

They also mentioned they're working on overhauling the storage system. (Fingers crossed it involves a fat chocobo!)

Thanks for your ideas! I don't really agree with them but it is nice to see people making constructive suggestions.

As someone who likes to create new characters and do low level stuff, I wish they could add a few more Claim Slips for storing lower level gear like:

Level 10 Scale, Level 11 Brass, Level 12 Linen, Level 16 Bone, Level 20 Trader's, Level 21 Beetle.

If you actually wear armor, o.O, at low level, this is another 30 pieces of gear you have to either store or repeated buy if you end up tossing it. Just a nice change I would like to see.

The complete collection on Steam costs as much as standalone SoA costs. I'm not sure why you still want to pay 40 bucks to get something you can get for 30.

It's the same bunch of 0s and 1s no matter where you get it from. It makes no difference if you get a key that enables the entire game or one that enables just SoA. All you're doing is flipping a digit in SE's database servers.

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Originally Posted by Mirage

The complete collection on Steam costs as much as standalone SoA costs. I'm not sure why you still want to pay 40 bucks to get something you can get for 30.

It's the same bunch of 0s and 1s no matter where you get it from. It makes no difference if you get a key that enables the entire game or one that enables just SoA. All you're doing is flipping a digit in SE's database servers.

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Also, if you copy the installation folder from Steam, and then install FFXI from the free trial, you can copy those instalaltion files over the plain install and enable all the expansions, without ever needing Steam again. Only the core game needs to be installed, and that's a free download, and just to set up registry keys. After that, you can copy anyone's install from a backup or their hard drive to bring the game up to current expansions and current patches. That's how I do it. I keep my FFXI install backed up to an external hard drive, and hand it to a friend who is just starting the game to save them a long patch. The folder copies over in about 10 minutes, and the initial file check takes about half an hour, and they are playing within in hour instead of waiting 8-10 of patching.

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Originally Posted by Grimlocke

I would love to see a Fat chocobo, almost as much as I would love to play a moogle. :)

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XIV is getting a fat chocobo mount and a moogle minion :D, part of the ps4 CE pack

If they implement fat choco in xi I hope its a house item so we don't have to run someplace separate from housing like Adoulin Docks or Mog Gardens to access. Not allowing your house mog to redeem storage slips and making us exit and run down the lane is silly enough as it is when your trying to juggle gear

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Originally Posted by Grimlocke

I got all expansions but SoA. Im having issues obtaining a physical copy of the expansion. Also I dont feel like buying a Full download from steam just for 1 expansion

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SE didn't release a physical copy of SoA that I know of, it's download content only.

For PC yeah, no physical copies.

http://www.amazon.com/Final-Fantasy-...ers+of+adoulin

Amazon has the expansion by itself for $19.99. The download is only a few hundred MB as opposed to 5~ GB on the Complete Collection.

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Originally Posted by Grimlocke

That's sad really. I would really like a physical copy of SoA. I guess people like me who collect music cd's, bluerays, and physical copy of games, are a dying breed. :rolleyes:

I dont want to support companies like Steam,Amazon etc. I want it directly from Square enix themselves. Call it a prefrence. Call it security. Call it whatever you want to, but until they do I wont purchase it.

I donot use my computer to surf the web, look at wiki's etc. Infact this is the only thing i've done on my computer other than games. And the only reason I posted here was because I thought these might be legitimate claims, based on the people I have talked to about the current systems.

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That's kind of a waste of all the power and capability a computer has, to only use it for games. My computer does just about everything in my house, from running my TV, to giving me stuff to read, to storing my library of whatever content I have, to running old game consoles.

Like it or not, shipping a physical copy is much more expensive than providing a download, as you can have infinite copies of the download generated, and don't have to pay any shipping or distribution, as well as time for delivery to the customer being greatly reduced. SquareEnix wouldn't have to worry about producing too many physical copies either and eating a loss on that production and distribution cost. Many computers nowadays are shipping completely without optical drives because digital distribution is so common for video/audio/software content that it's being built into all the major operating systems. Steam and Amazon are the giants of digital software distribution, and as they are the first place many people look, it doesn't make sense to try to compete with them by starting your own service when you can just publish to them. Heck, even Microsoft doesn't run their own software download servers for their programs and operating systems, they use DigitalRiver, which a lot of other companies do. SE is nowhere near the size of Microsoft.

It's not like it's hard to download the FFXI install data from someone else that has it either. BlueGartr has links to all the expansion installers. All you need from Steam or Amazon is the registration code, and you can get the install data from elsewhere.

If you want a physical disc, you can burn the data to one. It won't be any different in content from a disc sold in a store. Otherwise, you can buy an Xbox 360 disc, or a Japanese PS2 disc (though the code won't be useful to you unless you have a JP account). I'd rather have the install data on a flash drive though, easier to update when new data is released.

Steam and Amazon take multiple payment options. Gift cards are sold in physical stores that work with them. I believe PayPal works on at least one of them, and that can link directly to your bank account.

Back in December, with the all-account-two-week-reactivation event, they released a full download of the core game and all expansions for PC. They deactivated the links when the event was over, but I'd wager that someone kept them and had them up elsewhere for download to this day. It's not hard to get install data for PC. SE sells expansion codes individually in your account management page.

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Originally Posted by Calatilla

SE didn't release a physical copy of SoA that I know of

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They did in one place. Guess where!

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Originally Posted by Ziyyigo-Tipyigo

They did in one place. Guess where!

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North America, for Xbox?

;)

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Originally Posted by Grimlocke

all I can say is.. Enjoy the recreation of the credit system. Then again you may very well be one of those exploiting such systems for all I know, you know not being accountable for all the debt you spent?

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I don't own a credit card, can still buy stuff digitally using my debit card or if that fails with points cards etc. I don't see what this has to do with anything, I don't really understand the fetish of having something on a disk when services offer free re-downloads and if that fails fans have back ups of the files available online...

Also, you can make a physical copy of a digital download. Just burn it to disk, copy to a backup hard drive, or put on a flash drive. Heck, put it on your own cloud storage if you want. The data is the same as if you bought a disc, you just don't have the fancy packaging, and you could make some yourself. Internet connections are getting fast enough, it makes more sense to reduce waste by not producing the cardboard and plastic for a physical copy, and the customer gets the product faster.

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Originally Posted by Grimlocke

Again you donot know peoples limititations. All I hear is the same thing spewed over and over again. "This is easier" or "that is cheaper" , again this is not what I asked for.

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So what limitation would prevent you from downloading the install data when you need internet access to play this game? If you are doing so on a computer, what would limit you from saving that to physical media? Adoulin would fit on a CD, it's 400 MB, and blank CDs cost pennies each.

Burn the data yourself to physical media if you need tangible proof of possession of data. The benefit is you can make as many copies as you need. Hard drives and solid state storage are quickly becoming the defacto remaining standard for physical storgae of computer programs. Download-only is what a lot of companies are pushing for, and it makes ecological sense. Optical media isn't as dense in data capacity, and can't be recycled for more data. Read-only data storage made of plastic is inefficient. Digital-only also gives you the ability to choose what sort of physical media you want, and how many physical copies you want, you're not limited to their choice of media. That removes limitations from you. I remember when WotG released on DVD-only, and some people still didn't have DVD drives. It's not like Windows is a protected platform that prevents you from burning downloaded data to another media. All data is digital on a computer, media is just a container. What's wrong with putting it in a container of your choice rather than getting it in one type of container from the manufacturer?

Credit has its purpose. There's no way I'd be able to afford a house of my own without some line of credit, with houses in my state running 6 digits of cost. I take as little credit as I can, but for big purchases, it's the only way to afford an item that costs multiple years of income. I don't see what it has to do with your issue though.

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Originally Posted by Grimlocke

I dont want to support companies like Steam,Amazon etc. I want it directly from Square enix themselves. Call it a prefrence. Call it security. Call it whatever you want to, but until they do I wont purchase it.

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If it is just Aldouin you want, Amazon would be the better option based on what I remember at launch. Those that went with them had almost no issues. Those who bought from SE (and digital river?) that was handling the distribution, was giving people a ton of headaches. Things may have changed though.

Personally, I totally agree with you. I buy digitally, but only if it is the only way. Otherwise I want something that is mine for keeps.

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Originally Posted by Olor

North America, for Xbox?

;)

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Close, but the only unique thing NA got was Ultimate Collection for Xbox. All six of the JP 360 players (and however many EU players) could get the add-on disc alone, though.

But no, the physical media versions of both the Adoulin stand-alone and what we would call the Ultimate Collection are JP ONLY.

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I don't really understand the fetish of having something on a disk when services offer free re-downloads and if that fails fans have back ups of the files available online...

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I'm thinking he's saying "ME GRIMLOCKE DON'T LIKE DRM!" without realizing there is no DRM if he gets it from Amazon.

Not sure if troll...

No, as in Digital Restrictions Management, which is what people usually mean when they complain about "not really owning" a digital download version of the game. The Steam version is forever tied to your Steam account (can be revoked, etc.), but once you purchase and download from Amazon it really is yours, even if you delete your Amazon account.

Burn it to a DVD, print out the PDF manual, do some grade-school arts-and-crafts and you can have your very own "boxed product" indistinguishable from "the real thing."

So you asked to update to Adoulin from POL Viewer, but that wouldn't give you a physical copy, it would still be a download. You wouldn't even have an installer, just the patch files falling into place. What are you really asking for, and what's the difference from downloading from another source and making your own physical copy? You say we don't know the limitations of others, but you aren't stating any limitations so it can be explained why they shouldn't limit you.

Well, a POL download isn't going to happen. The client was never designed to handle something like that, and it's not practical to go back and to try to introduce that now. Besides, that would break their current business model of making you buy copies of a new expansion for each of your platforms (e.g. having to buy both the Xbox 360 and PC version).

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Originally Posted by Grimlocke

The point is something for people who have issues getting it other ways, or wish to only trust certain companies.

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There's Steam, Amazon, and S-E's own online store, though history has shown that last one is actually the least reliable (apparently thanks in part to their reliance on Digital River). Between those three options there are at least as many different payment methods as there are for paying for your subscription (e.g. I could have used cash for my Amazon purchase in the same way I use cash to buy Crysta). As I mentioned before, getting a copy through Amazon (at least) differs from a physical copy only in the lack of a pressed physical disc; Amazon and FFXI could permaban my accounts tomorrow and I could still uninstall and reinstall it with wild abandon.

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I could say a ploretha of reasons why one would have issues

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Try us. What rational issue would there be preventing a player from getting Seekers of Adoulin when they are otherwise capable of both subscribing to and playing an MMO?

It's not like you own the game anyway, with it being an online-only game. There is no offline mode. So what's the problem with them switching to an online-only distribution model except for the console releases that require a disc?

The game can be bought directly from SE already. You can pay with debit-visa cards. The game you get on their online store is download-only. Getting it through POL would also be download-only.

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Originally Posted by Grimlocke

You must think credit is a viable system too?

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I don't have a credit card.... I personally think it's a mug's game. Like the poster above said, if you want physical proof you own the item that you download - burn it on to a CD. Nevermind that a HARD DRIVE is also a PHYSICAL ITEM. If you have it on your hard drive - you HAVE A PHYSICAL ITEM.

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Originally Posted by Ziyyigo-Tipyigo

Close, but the only unique thing NA got was Ultimate Collection for Xbox. All six of the JP 360 players (and however many EU players) could get the add-on disc alone, though.

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Nope. Here is the stand alone disc for XBOX. Though personally I think it would be silly to buy that, since you can just have the whole game on one disc instead - and the full edition comes with the beret and shirt...

http://www.amazon.com/Final-Fantasy-.../dp/B00B23MO9Y

Tip for you grimlock - buy the xbox disc - use the code on your account. Then download the files from fan back ups for your computer. Then you have the game "on disc"

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Originally Posted by Olor

Though personally I think it would be silly to buy that, since you can just have the whole game on one disc instead

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Only if you live in North America which is what I said...

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Originally Posted by Ziyyigo-Tipyigo

Only if you live in North America which is what I said...

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Oh I thought you were saying the opposite! Sorry!

Well, what do you want to argue? No one disagrees with you about the spawn points and dynamis congestion issues, so no one is going to put forth an argument about that. #4 would be nice but the developers have already told us "nope, we can't do that, too hard/too much work".

That only leaves point 3, which most of us seem to find to be a non-issue, because, as stated, you can pay for the expansion by a number of different payment options, where charging a debit card (not credit, which you don't like to use) is one of the options. You can even use SE's own store, where you can pay with a debit visa like you can anywhere else that takes visa. What you think about credit purchases isn't really relevant, because you don't need to use credit to pay for the game.

I know you said you wanted to buy things from within POL, but I think that is an unrealistic request, considering every change SE has made to billing and account management the last few years have all moved *away* from using POL, and instead had us use their account management website. It seems that SE is as fed up with POL as most users are, and just want to keep all things billing and purchase related out of it as much they can.

Concerning POL used to be the site you would go to for info on how to beat bosses for FFIX when it first came out it does seem that they're wanting to move away from it. The more pop areas for the mini versions of some aby nms would have been better back when Abby still had more foot traffic than it does currently. Though if they make us go back into Abby for when/if we get emperian reforge then yes it would be nice. The only Abby nm I would like to see gain two ??? would be fistule. Even on non peak days and hours I have found bsts camping it when I get in a mood to try and get my items for my club.

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Originally Posted by Grimlocke

It's becoming clear, why my LS and friends do not post here.

Grim~

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You haven't given anything to try to debate againt. You say we don't understand someone's limitations, but you make no attempt to define the limitations or give us anything to understand. Also, a debate is more productive than an argument, but either way, you don't give any indication as to what you qould require to be "real".

You can buy an expansion code direct from SE through the SquareEnix Account Management page. Providing the data for the expansion is up to you. They sell downloads of the data through several sources, and they sell the codes by themselves because they know people can get used install discs, or torrent the expansion installer. A physical copy is unnecessary at this point, and you can make your own physical copy any time you like if you absolutely need one.

There's not much to discuss on the other suggestions. They've been made before, are not generally disliked, and are somewhat uninteresting. What is interesting is wondering why someone would absolutely require a physical copy made from a specific source, when every computer has the capability to make one on demand. Data distribution has already changed, like 3D printers becoming cheaper and more capable will change physical product production and distribution. High capacity drives and high speed internet connections are making optical media obsolete for general purposes.

Heck, I can provide a PC Adoulin disc if that's all you want. It won't be fancy, just a handwritten label, but it will be a physical copy.

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Originally Posted by Grimlocke

The specific limitations arent important

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Yes, they are. If the current system has failings, it's better to actually address those failings than to abandon the current system entirely, especially if/when the current system works for the vast majority of customers (i.e. the cost-benefit ratio of what you're proposing is laughable).

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From things as having an old computer that cant run steam

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http://store.na.square-enix.com/stor...rentCategoryID.
http://www.amazon.com/Final-Fantasy-...P1A/ref=sr_1_1

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that cannot update IE or wont work at all if you do.

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http://www.playonline.com/ff11us/pol...ews21916.shtml
https://www.mozilla.org/en-US/
https://www.google.com/intl/en/chrome/browser/

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"I donot chose to support the companies in which they are using to distrubute their product." If they want people like me or my friends who dont want to fund evil corperations to buy these products, offer us the software directly.

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Who would you be buying the disc from and how are they less evil than the three options available? Even after considering the working conditions in their warehouses I still find Amazon to be less evil than all the retail options near me that would carry such an esoteric game disc.

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offer us the software directly.

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http://store.na.square-enix.com/stor...rentCategoryID.

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Then why is it I am not seeing people going "well I like this idea here" or "thats a great idea!"

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Because you're ignoring the talley of the number of times your original post has been "Liked?"

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And dont ask me to name them off, or all you are get is a bunch of tech support links.

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Please? That would at least be progress.

Don't you get it, Ziyyigo? He's not interested in assistance with the technical issues he might be having. He's interested in Square Enix changing a large portion of their content distribution so that he won't have to use his head.

Btw you'll be safe with using Google Chrome. They specifically state that they aren't evil.

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Originally Posted by Grimlocke

SoA Stuff

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If you don't want to suppose 'evil corporations' then do what has been suggested before already, buy a code rather than the game or the download, then download it via a torrent or other form of online download. Congrats, you got your SoA. The difficulty in doing that which is listed above is non-existent, if you want I can easily send you my download link from Amazon to download the game, if this is one of those so called 'evil corporations' then oh well, guess what, downloading it via this link will not do anything for them since I paid for this day 1 and can redownload it at will. If you are unwilling to do this then perhaps the issue isn't with what SE's doing but rather with you. I do not say this trollingly, I say this as someone who is tired of watching a debate or complaints about a system which isn't even broken and your failure to simply do what need be done to get around that which you do not care to participate in.

Yes he feels amazon is one of those evil middle man companies. Yet they do a lot of charitable work and their own CEO does even more wonderful things out of their own pocket. Also wants a physical coppy straight from SE but knows that isn't possible unless he has an imported version. Along with feeling that anyone who uses any form of credit has no self controll and will spend more than they can pay back. Then calls us all trolls when he is given various ways of getting what he wants sans the physical part made exclusively by SE. Even when it is more expensive to produce that physical item at a loss to SE themselves. Oh and they're also worried about identity theft. Which could lead some to think they are also afraid of a faulty paper trail, even a digital one. All though that's why one should love the crap out of their security token until the couch eats it and never gives it back.

I'm just waiting for new details beyond what sound like nothing more than objections to using Steam and credit/debit cards specifically.

And I forgot one more avenue of buying Adoulin, from the people many of us would end up buying it from if it were on disc anyway:
http://www.gamestop.com/pc/games/fin...adoulin/108881

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Originally Posted by Grimlocke

The specific limitations arent important, From things as having an old computer that cant run steam, that cannot update IE or wont work at all if you do. Im not arguing, im not the one who isnt reading.

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The specific details are the MOST important, because they are what give weight to each side of the debate. Nothing can be fixed without knowing details. Go to a doctor and tell them you're sick and want them to fix you, but then answer their request for symptoms with "those specific details aren't important". You can't provide solutions if you don't understand the problem.

Steam isn't required to run the game. IE doesn't have to be updated, there are alternative browsers that can be used instead.

If you buy from SE, you get a DigitalRiver download link, but your money is going straight to SE. If you can't download from there for some reason, there are plenty of other sources for the data files, even another player that already has them installed (just ask for a copy of their ROM9 folder).

I'm not trying to be witty, I'm trying to do what I do for fun, help people fix problems they have with systems I have an aptitude with. Computers are my strength, and I like to help people put them to uses they are interested in. Computers have some limitations, but the main ones I see are those their users perceive them to have, not what they really have. It sounds like your limitations are imposed by you, not by your situation, and there's not much help for that unless you decide to rethink your limits. This information can still be helpful to other people that might get this thread as a search result in the future. Chiming in support for an idea I like isn't as entertaining for me as trying to solve a problem I haven't run across before, or helping someone do something they didn't know how to do before.

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Originally Posted by Grimlocke

Actually my name did'nt come from the Dinobots, but thats a different conversation alltogether. As for D.R.E.M.'s. I have the R(mandau), I have the E(Vere) and working on the M. You can examine me in game, or ask me to show you if you want proof :) You can keep the Delves, but thats my prefrence. Even if I had the SoA expansion, I would opt out for the others.

Grim~

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[side question. sorry to deviate from discussion] Have to ask lol. Grimlock as in GalkFelluz Grimlock with Letty and Greylynx on Seraph back before WotG? I used to play as Monolith on Seraph a while ago before I had to move because of realm mergers. It'd be cool to see an old pal again :p

Wow, he actually went and deleted every post he could from the entire forum. He couldn't delete this since it was an entire thread. So much for other players seeing the discussion. I wonder if his LS Children of Spira is all like him...

So it was said that he knew of a computer old enough to not be able to run Steam. I wonder how it would be able to run FFXI then, since Steam's requirements are lower.