Cait Sith....meh?

Looking at what BP's it has..first off, why so few? Secondly it looks like hes gonna be used just to raise and never seen again. I cant see stuff like the amnisea or sleep being very potent or even sticking to anything high end, which leaves a 3 fold physical (which unless it trumps garuda..call that another loss) and a random holy...Dont see much use to a random damage skill.

So basically its gonna be used for raises and thrown away...wonderful.

and those ward means no phoenix i guess =(

Yeah, no Phoenix was the first thing I thought, too ><

I agree, they do need to work on her, for example why have a raise and reraise bloodpact thats so unoriginal might as well just fuse both effects into a bloodpact and call it something like "Divine Tear". And if you notice her progression stops at level 75 so perhaps SE is going to add the remaining bloodpacts in the future? we need Cait Sith to be something similar to a light version of Fenrir we haven't had a proper avatar in years the last proper avatar was diabolos in 2004.

In just glad they finally added another avatar. It only took 2+years. But I'm gonna wait to pass judgment til I see it in action. I'm sure they will add more BPs in other updates and they probably just wanted to get cait out to hold us over.

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Originally Posted by Kuvo

In just glad they finally added another avatar. It only took 2+years. But I'm gonna wait to pass judgment til I see it in action. I'm sure they will add more BPs in other updates and they probably just wanted to get cait out to hold us over.

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Cait Sith has been in development for 3 years, but if you notice the bloodpact progression anyone can see that she was basically rushed for march release, I would prefer they hold her and actually make her somewhat decent rather than a raise and reraise spell. I mean shes not adding anything good that our subjobs or a white mage can't do other than her astral flow. This is a total slap in the face to all the summoners that were waiting for her.

I'm no SMN, so take this with a grain of salt, but I always imagined Cait Sith would be kind of like the Seinfeld finale... so much hype and buildup and wait that it would be impossible to live up to the viewers' expectations.

I say don't knock it till you try it.

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Originally Posted by Zarchery

I'm no SMN, so take this with a grain of salt, but I always imagined Cait Sith would be kind of like the Seinfeld finale... so much hype and buildup and wait that it would be impossible to live up to the viewers' expectations.

I say don't knock it till you try it.

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The thing is just looking at her Bloodpact list you can see how awful she is going to be, her only saving grace would be if she has the same or similar attributes to fenrir, and if she has a awesome avatar favor. This is all she gives us in a nutshell that is unique to her however considering my /whm can do raise,reraise,silence we are really only getting 3 unique things.

1.) Raise
2.) Reraise
3.) Random Banishga
4.) Arisega
5.) Amensia (Which would probably be super weak)
6.) Silence (Which would probably be super weak)

Unfortunately Cait is a little lackluster, as neat as giving a pet raise/reraise is, I can't see that being more convenient than just casting Reraise/Raise in most situations. Doing a /sea all Smn on Fenrir right now, 13 Smns online, 7 are /Whm (Gain nothing of note), 4 are Sch (Gain nothing of note), 2 Are Rdm, (no longer need RR items? I guess?).

Arisega is a fun thought, but not terribly practical, who's going to blow their 2hr to raise in most situations, when people do die mid event, arisega isn't likely to save the group, usually if you have several dead people in something, you're going to want to save your 2hr to make a proper attempt on whatever you're fighting after the wipe.

Amnesia is a fun thought, but come on, SE isn't going to let that land on anything we'd actually care to use it on.

"Arise-ga" is a huge net gain over /WHM an /SCH... Sure its our 1hr Ability, but this isn't 2005 and 1hr's aren't some sacred thing to save for the last second or pre-determined perfect moments, you can pop em when you need em and Arise-ga would actually be quite nice in some situations. Better news is this will likely AoE everyone in range in Wildskeepers and Reives in general, so thats a net positive. It also means If i want to go MeleeSMN for the funsies out in Reives and such where 9/10 I outdamage every abomination there, I won't feel bad for not being able to raise them :D, and feel safer being able to Reraise myself.

While I will say Cait seems a little lack-luster in terms of Blood pact volume, there's still the matter of its Favor, and while I'd of liked to not have Raise BPs because I mean... They are in fact a little disappointing, I can at least fathom a use for them, and we now become the only other job aside from WHM to get Arise, in ga form no less. 2hr or not.

Anywho, Regal Scratch will probably suck, its a level 1 BP, those don't scale well unless they're trying something new with Cait, There's absolutely no reason Mewing Lullaby should be a BP:Rage when its CLEARLY a /ward ability (Sleepga, and Nightmare, both wards), same for Eerie Eye, which is a straight debuff, again, should be Wards. - I'd like to think they made them Rages so our Wards were always open up for Raises when needed and we didn't have to decide between a Debuff and a Raise. Still, odd choices but understandable.

That said, all thats left is Level ? Holy, which is a high level AoE BP Rage... Part of me hopes it performs well and can be useful in crowd control, but I can't remember many events today that require the killing of large amounts of Enemies at the same time, Reives again is all that i got.

Regardless, I imagine this pet will be a lot like Carbuncle, mostly a BP:Ward pet and not much offensively. But who knows.

^ yes even shiva's sleepga is ward...i have a weird feeling this is just a rushed bad attempt to give a promised avatar instead of thinking it through and adding something that would get some good use. I like the raise stuff, though like most people said, if your on SMN your already a mage sub so your not getting much out of it anyways except the arise. Its like they had ideas for both cait and phoenix sitting around and they just quickly mashed the 2 together for the sake of putting something out.

Id rather wait longer and get something i would actually use more than as just a 1hr than have this tbh. Only thing i can see redeeming it is if the higher level BPs (if we even get them) are well worth it. I was also in the camp that cait or phoenix would be a light version of fenrir basically.

but its a cat and so cute and kawai ^-^ (and I'm probably gonna murder it because it will die instantly trying to get arisega up)

PHOENIX CONFIRMED!!!!!!

It just looks like Cait Sith. Was this done because so many people asked for Phoenix? It wasn't that we wanted a raising pet; it was that we wanted to see and command Phoenix in the flesh, and this blood pact set-up confirms that will never happen, unless Cait Sith's wards were to be transferred to Phoenix one day.

We really just wanted Phoenix in all her glory to rise from the ashes. Pretty lame that of all the avatars, she's the de facto dead one.

Why don't you all wait until it's released before going nuts over nothing? You're all wondering why SE doesn't look/reply at these posts more often, I sure as hell don't blame them.

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Originally Posted by Behemothx

Why don't you all wait until it's released before going nuts over nothing? You're all wondering why SE doesn't look/reply at these posts more often, I sure as hell don't blame them.

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Why wait? Once the avatar is released they are even more unlikely to go back and fix it or change concepts they currently have for the avatar. Look at the SP2s, RDM was terrible, we said it was, they changed it, it got worse, we said it was terrible, they left it, it was released, it's still terrible. It's not rocket science to predict these things are going to be terribly bad, sadly, it's very predictable, Raise and Reraise are both things we get from a subjob as it is, everything else listed is unlikely to land, or unlikely to be more powerful than that of other Avatars, which leaves Cait as being bad. If we say nothing now it's only going to make things less likely to change in the long run.

I completely blame them for not looking at these posts more often. It's their job, FFXI is not some free-to-play indie project. I'm sure customer service reps for utility and phone companies don't want to listen and answer calls, but they do. And it certainly doesn't justify not doing it.

While there is a certain level of artistry to MMO's, it is very heavily dependant on retaining customers. I don't see anything anyone is disappointed in as offensive or overbearing. Listening to the playerbase and changing things appropriate is not always inheritantly bad. A lot of SMNs would love to summon Phoenix at some point. Valid concern/feedback. A lot of people don't feel confident in Cait Sith's pacts so far and wondering how this took 3 years since the reason they kept giving us was they needed to work on not only the quests but figure out what to give her. Another valid concern/feedback. Something I've exclaimed a lot on this forum, this is primary a place for feedback and concerns. If complaints and feedback seem high, it's because it's the nature of the a feedback forum. I've managed and done customer service for years, I don't internalize complaints. I listen, ignore negative information, pull away information that is helpful, mitigate if the conversation is getting out of control, and respond with change or reason why it will not change. That is work.

I'm personally not happy with the current move set and I hope that listening to subject matter we are discussing will change this in the future. I'd still personally like to see the raise related pacts shifted to Phoenix in the future. Given Cait Sith's story background, I'd like to see her be more of a BRD type time buff/debuff and light damage based avatar. Marches and Elegy to fit in the theme of time and play on that SMN blood pacts borrow a lot of abilities from different jobs. Possibly a play on words "Cait Nip" pact.

I don't personally like the though of making Cait Sith a "Carbuncle 2.0". I'd like Carbuncle to be buffed so it has it's own place separately. Which it still does with this move set (healing/erasing), but it's something to consider going forward with any 75+ pacts.

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Originally Posted by Karbuncle

"Arise-ga" is a huge net gain over /WHM an /SCH... Sure its our 1hr Ability, but this isn't 2005 and 1hr's aren't some sacred thing to save for the last second or pre-determined perfect moments

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If you didn't use perfect defense, but you guys have a buncha deaths, you shoulda used perfect defense, you can either use your 2hr to arisega.... or, more likely, just raise them and use perfect defense next attempt.

If you did use perfect defense, you probably didn't have a buncha people die before your 2hr wears, so you can't arisega them.

Generally people only bring Smns to things when they want perfect defense for pre-determined "perfect" moments.

i hope the favor is regain, anything else isnt really worth the wait

I agree we knew what she was bringing to the game, due to the abilities used in her mission battle; however, she only had 5 abilities in that battle so what we were more hopeful about is the other potential bloodpacts that she could have brought into the game. I doubt they been working on her for 3 years its more like 2 days of work and they called it a day because even if SE put to the side 10 minutes a day to work on Cait Sith in the time span of 3 years she would have been much more balanced and useful, all they worked on adding to her is her arisega because the other abilities already existed and all they really needed was adjustments so players wouldn't be able to use them at full strength.

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Originally Posted by Rwolf

I completely blame them for not looking at these posts more often. It's their job, FFXI is not some free-to-play indie project.

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Agreat deal of 'feedback' posts tend to be the vocal minority that want things overpowered/nerfed/easymode'd. Just because they dont respond individually to every post doesnt mean they aren't listening to feedback from the community reps or lurking and reading the forums themselves.

Its far more important for the developers to weigh the long term health of the game and introduce changes or new content conservatively. If cait sith is truly terrible then they will adjust it later, I don't think they want another alexander/perfect defense debacle like before so Cait isn't going to be the end-all be all avatar some people think they deserve.

Pretty much every MMO in existence would be terrible or die off as an unbalanced mess if devs caved into every half baked idea coming the vocal minority of forum posters that are largely biased towards their own in-game goals or favorite jobs.

Most people are too busy playing the game enjoying it for what it is, or post on other forums than this one, and those of us that post here don't really represent a fair and balanced view of the game.

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Originally Posted by Sapphires

Agreat deal of 'feedback' posts tend to be the vocal minority that want things overpowered/nerfed/easymode'd. Just because they dont respond individually to every post doesnt mean they aren't listening to feedback from the community reps or lurking and reading the forums themselves.

Its far more important for the developers to weigh the long term health of the game and introduce changes or new content conservatively. If cait sith is truly terrible then they will adjust it later, I don't think they want another alexander/perfect defense debacle like before so Cait isn't going to be the end-all be all avatar some people think they deserve.

Pretty much every MMO in existence would be terrible or die off as an unbalanced mess if devs caved into every half baked idea coming the vocal minority of forum posters that are largely biased towards their own in-game goals or favorite jobs.

Most people are too busy playing the game enjoying it for what it is, or post on other forums than this one, and those of us that post here don't really represent a fair and balanced view of the game.

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You didn't understand my post. It was in response to saying people being negative is why they don't respond. Matsui himself has even admitted in the past on the forums that he doesn't like replying to our posts because of the tone (in the letter to english speaking players thread), I am also referencing to that. You need to read my entire post over again. I said nothing of the sort of implementing every thing someone comes up with in the forums. Don't push your negative views of the community here to fit my post, so you can quote me and rant about it. Because it wasn't even the point of what I was talking about.

Was really hoping for a thf like avatar for this 1 maybe with TH2 for it's avatar favor. Most of my other jobs can /thf for it or beastmaster can use dipper or falcor or if the newer jugs have treasure hunter, hate using /thf on summoner

And you would think they would give phoenix raise and reraise being the bird of rebirth/resurrection " Associated with the sun, a phoenix obtains new life by arising from the ashes of its predecessor."

With Cait Sith, you can pretty much bet that Phoenix is never coming to the game.

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Originally Posted by cthullhu420

And you would think they would give phoenix raise and reraise being the bird of rebirth/resurrection " Associated with the sun, a phoenix obtains new life by arising from the ashes of its predecessor."

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She has the RRs because She's the Tears of Altana. (still want an explanation for why the ubergoddess cries kitties)
And the Tears of Altana were tasked with revitalizing the dead future to one of life and prosperity.

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Originally Posted by Brightshadow

With Cait Sith, you can pretty much bet that Phoenix is never coming to the game.

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Don't be so sure.
If Phoenix were to be added, She would not be a full summon.
She's so fragmented that She can't even manifest a physical Avatar.
So she'd be relegated to Odin and Alexander style.
Also, having multiple Avatars of the same element (even being able to summon them) is nothing new.

Besides all that... Phoenixes in FF have never been just about the RR.... they're all about the explosion that gives you raise.

I would not be too surprised if Cait Sith is actually a beta test for Phoenix.
Because her 2hr pimps Arise to the dead, and RR3 to the living... and that's some complicated programming... ESPECIALLY for FFXI which is +10yrs old... that's like being 10000yrs old for computers!
Factoring in a AoE heavy fire damage effect on top of that... you're looking at some complicated math where the base effects will need to be hammered out first.
If anything, Cait Sith's 2hr INCREASES the chance of Phoenix being implemented: because now there is no technological wall preventing arise-ga to the dead and RR3-ga to the living at the same time.

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Originally Posted by FaeQueenCory

If Phoenix were to be added, She would not be a full summon.
She's so fragmented that She can't even manifest a physical Avatar.
So she'd be relegated to Odin and Alexander style.

Because her 2hr pimps Arise to the dead, and RR3 to the living... and that's some complicated programming... ESPECIALLY for FFXI which is +10yrs old... that's like being 10000yrs old for computers!

If anything, Cait Sith's 2hr INCREASES the chance of Phoenix being implemented: because now there is no technological wall preventing arise-ga to the dead and RR3-ga to the living at the same time.

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Not really something that increases the chances of adding an avatar when they basically gave the best possible outcome that she could possibly grant. I mean the only thing you can get better than AoE Arise to your party is AoE non-weakness Arise to everyone in the Alliance, with a non-weakness Reraise III on top of it. So yeah, this basically cut the chances of Phoenix to 0 or near 0, not really giving us a better shot at it, especially if the only thing Phoenix could do is this 1 ability.

What you don't want a cute 1hr bird to cause like a firaga V to your enemies while she does the non weakness arise-ga and RR3 to everyone else? Don't make the highly fractured bird cry. Sorry I'm in an odd mood right now.

My guess on Cait Sith's 1hr blood pact is the description text is misleading. I would bet it's simply AoE Arise and I'm sure the RR3 effect is simply the one bestowed from Arise itself, meaning being already alive gives you no effect though would be nice for it to do something. I hope they don't introduce any more 1 hour avatars than they already have, I don't think it was a good idea for Alexander and Odin, or Atomos soon enough. Hopefully they change their mind on that at some point. I also hope that the chatter generated will mean Phoenix in the future at some point.