I'm looking at the mighty Emp Staff and I'm wondering exactly how any of the 3 jobs that can wield it would stay alive if they used it in battle. The base damage is only 4% less than a Masamune.
At first glance, it would seem it helps that Myrkr does no damage, but the mp restored will cause more devastation than a WS would. BLM and SCH are dead as soon as they use that mp.
I am hopeful that Hver SMN would find a niche that doesn't involve any -perp gear, but I know how bad avatars are at keeping hate off any other melee setup. Anyone have this staff and can comment on the rate of death?
Hverlgelmir, mighty stick of death trap?
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03-25-2011, 02:32 AMDallasHvergelmir, mighty stick of death trap?
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03-25-2011, 02:00 PMFeliciaa
I don't have the staff myself but, if we're just talking about normal exp mobs a melee SMN should not even be pulling hate unless all the other DD went afk, their avatar just died, or their BP timer is not ready yet.
However, I can't really recommend Hver on NMs/HNMs because of AoEs and TP feeding.
Although, TP wings in abyssea are really common so I could see Hver having some actual value and the aftermath procs would add a decent increase in overall dmg. Plus the thing looks really nice so you would get a few random /check and "style points" ^^ -
03-26-2011, 01:07 AMDallas
Assuming we use the weapon the way any DD would use the weapon, the only thing I can see holding hate would be a better emp weapon. It's going to be very unpleasant surrounded by people who keyboxed to 90.
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03-26-2011, 03:37 AMMalamasala
I don't know about you, but if I had the staff, I'd be using spirit taker to do damage and gain MP, because it would be pointless to have a DD staff and use none-DD WSes.
And you wouldn't pull hate as a mage unless you wear 25% haste in armors like other DDs. You'd simply swing too rarely to steal hate of them. And if you find 25% haste in gear for SMN, give me a tell, because that would be fun to have. (Well, as a SMN you'd need the acc too, so just haste would be pointless).
Lastly you'd also lack the STR of other melee, so you'd do less damage anyway. It would be impossible to pull hate even as /SAM. -
03-26-2011, 06:16 AMFeliciaa
Problem with SMN vs. any DD is it lacks any true melee abilities/gear. ie: Dual Wield, martial arts, stp gear, etc. However, if you would melee with Hver I think you would still want to go with the emp WS for the ODD aftermath as I can't see spirit taker doing as much dmg plus you get 20% mp back for sure.
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03-26-2011, 09:02 AMDallas
The aftermath greatly outweighs Spirit Taker damage. Also, since the WS does no damage, there's no point in using it before 300% for 60% mp. I'd macro in all mp gear, Myrkr for 900 mp, then switch back to haste gear. The aftermath doesn't overwrite itself, so I'd also get a feel for how much TP you get and swap in Retribution in between.
As far as melee abilities go, all the good ones come from /SAM. You lose Cataclysm, but that isn't a good WS for slow Emp anyway.
BTW, I pull hate from many DD with /WHM and my OA4 Yantok. I am at 21% out of 23% gear haste. Atma gives me 200 STR too. It's only going to get worse. -
03-26-2011, 08:48 PMMalamasala
Depends on your atmas. I'd assume a RR atma combined with OA4 would raise your hate drastically since each crit you do is worth a ton of hate. It could even be so that it is the best hate pulling option you are playing with.
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03-27-2011, 07:55 AMMrButter
I'm horrified that SE will do something ... useful with it like add potency or maac to it and I'll actually have to make one.
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03-27-2011, 08:55 AMKarbuncle
SMN DD has always been a fun idea for me, An Unrealistic Idea, But a fun one. When i do SMN "DD" with a Staff, Its generall a good idea to SMN/SAM.
Also, With Atmas, I'd probably go for VV/RR/Minikin (Mini for maintaining Avatars since you wont have a lot of Perp- Gear on, plus its got INT+50, a strong mod in Retribution/whatever). The above you could use Predator Claws and still do bitching damage, as well as have the boost to your own damage. RR/Omni/MM wouldn't be too bad either for the 10% Haste, but your avatar damage on BP's would suffer, but their Melee Stage would increase a little.
my current TP Set up for my SMN is (lol i have one D: ) :
http://www.ffxiah.com/members/item-sets/?id=206905
I've been looking for Better Feet/Hands. Also going to get Haste+3% Attack+ Augment on Shantoto Pants when i buy the expansion finally Lol. Upgrading Head to Zelus when i get it.
I'm working on the STR+ Magian Staff too lol... I've always enjoyed the idea of Meleeing on SMN, but i know its criminally inefficient. But its fun.
Edit: Then again with nirvana (90) or Hverlg(90), you could probably just pop 3 DD Atmas and go to town, since both of those have MP helping abilities (Nirvana has Perp-7, and hverl has the mP recovery WS).
Also, I just looked at Nirvana(90) For the first time and I splooogeded :( -
03-27-2011, 07:50 PMMalamasala
Well, melee SMN can be built in two ways. Either you try and max out WS damage (in which case you probably want /WHM or something with cataclysm) or you max out melee hits. I've always gone more for the WS build than the melee swings, just because the options for a good DMG staff was always rather poor.
I'm kind of crazy though, so I actually have a pure melee, avatar melee and spirit melee build. -
03-28-2011, 03:04 AMKarbuncleActually, Even Pre-Abyssea, I've broken 2k With Full Swing and over 1,000 with Spirit Taker on SMN. Their WS are pretty potent if you build for them.Quote:
Originally Posted by Malamasala
Full Swing was on a Pot though :P I was cheating for a high number. the Spirit Taker however, i was farming Gigantobugard back when the hides NPC'd for something worthwhile.
Retribution can do some pretty decent number, as far as high Damage Staves go, the STR-Shareeravadi(w/e)+2 is actually pretty decent, so is the "TP Bonus+100" Staff, Since Retribution, like YGK, has a pretty potent fTP mod (Same with Full Swing).
both have decent base damage as well for Staves.
On top of that, We're lucky enough that Retri is a 50%MND/INT Mod (if i remember?) So an Atma like MM will help in that damage too. I think for WS and TP Damage /SAM is pretty boss, for Magical Weaponskills (Which you're more than likely going to be using Magical Bloodpacts and have something like MM/Ult/bey(etc) up) pure-damage wise I think you might be better off /RDM or /SCH (does /SCH get MAB? I dont think ...), but /RDM does, and you maintain a lot of your cure spells, along with MAB2 Job trait!
But you lose some healing Utility, but this is about DD :P
Cataclysm sure is fun though... The numbers can get pretty high with the right Atmas. When i did Cata-burn on MNK, I generally go for Ultimate/Iratham-one/Beyond (or Minikin, been inbetween good ones), numbers were impressive, but i think SMN has more potential for higher Damage, Since they get access to SOOO much MAB/INT Gear that its not funny :O!
So Actually, I might have to try out a Cata Build. It'd be pretty much the same as my Retri build except I'll have to work around a few more MAB gear... Teal Set seems perfect (Body/Legs anyway...) as it offers MAB and mods.
Now I'm itching to try this :X -
03-28-2011, 12:43 PMDallasThe multiplier on Spirit Taker at 100% is 1.0. That alone made me build focused around max melee hits (aka haste build). I have 21% gear haste (missing feet and Goliard body), Hasso, and Hastega. With my OA4 staff, the TP gushes like a geyser. It's an interesting proposal that I may actually have less hate with Hver. Very interesting indeed!Quote:
Originally Posted by Malamasala
Hver will not change my build since the WS multiplier is 0. -
03-28-2011, 04:28 PMKarbuncleWhats your TP Set right now? Curious :o.Quote:
Originally Posted by Dallas
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03-29-2011, 02:22 AMDallas
In Abyssea, I only care about speed. OA4 ruined DA:
Haste:
Zelus 8%,
Nashira Body 3%,
Hands 1%,
Tern (full set) 6%,
Shantotto Legs 3%
DA:
Pole Grip 2%,
Brutal 5%
Free to upgrade:
1 ear, 2 rings, feet, ranged (currently used for -3 perp, minimal acc/att)
I'd focus on Goliard body and Nash feet for the last 2% haste, but SE is boosting the Nash items I currently use. I'll wait. -
05-05-2011, 02:43 AMDallas
I was absolutely right about this beast. With SA, VV, RR (my best phys BP build), I was hitting for 600-700 criticals under the aftermath. There is no recovery from this.
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05-05-2011, 02:55 PMCettI could have told you this without making the weapon myself. But i too can confirm at most 7xx crit dmg on Dolls in Aletpa. You surprised that i've engaged anything ever?!?! FREAK OUT :OQuote:
Originally Posted by Dallas
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05-05-2011, 03:15 PMRakshaShhhh don't give them any ideas!Quote:
Originally Posted by MrButter
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05-05-2011, 05:47 PMDallasI'm up to 769 on a gnat. And no, I'm not surprised. You had to get staff skill somehow, but I still argue with strawmen. :PQuote:
Originally Posted by Cett
OA4 Yantok pulls hate off of the pet. Hvergelmir pulls hate off PLD. This thing is an absolute terror... I'm glad Myrkr does 0 damage! -
05-05-2011, 09:43 PMLeonlionheart
Use cataclysm, does significantly more damage with a Pluto's staff and the right atma. Plus if you're using SMN you can use Diabolos with Cosmos atma to at least not completely gimp your avatar.
About Hvergelmir's crit damage... WAR's crits w/ berserk up, RR and +2 feet can be as high as 650 without any ODD or set proc. Same with DRG, DRK, and to a lesser extent SAM.
It's nothing more than a toy, with no practical applications really. Maybe /SCH occult acumen for TP and being able to restore large amounts of MP outside abyssea? I can see it being amazing in that regard for a mage party. -
05-05-2011, 09:45 PMLeonlionheartIDK what PLD's you're playing with :[Quote:
Originally Posted by Dallas
For staff that damage is quite fantastic, but in comparison to anything else that actually is DD I'm not sure its really worth it.
Good news though, if you just want Myrkr no one EVER wants Coins of Ruin in WoE. I knew someone who had 60 of them just for the lulz. -
05-06-2011, 02:15 AMCettI love the 80/120 mp on Hverglemir, that and the epic skin on this staff makes it way more worth spamming WOE for. I'm almost under the impression that more grief would go into making the WOE staff vs the emp. Kukulkan is the easiest zone boss ever + Sedna (same story)! ;DQuote:
Originally Posted by Leonlionheart
@Dallas: Tp regain still beats refresh in any form inside or outside abys for this staff!!! >.< Two boxed Jailer of Faith yesterday using Tactician's roll and Beast roll on my 2nd char's Cor + Summoner on my main. It's epic! XD -
05-06-2011, 02:27 AMDallas
I discovered similar math on the TP vs MP earring:
1% regain for 5 minutes = 240 mp @ my non-abyssea base of 1200mp.
1mp refresh for 5 minutes = 100 mp
The optimal TP build is:
Hasso
Hastega
Haste gear
Double attack
Store TP
??? (for defense)
The optimal WS build is:
+MP
Bonus TP
That looks nothing like my WS setup. The MP returned is so great, -perp is not useful.
In fairness, I probably did not warn the PLD what I was about to do. He was soloing gnats when I jumped in to help. I killed 2.5 before dying, no healer in sight.Quote:
Originally Posted by Leonlionheart
In order to compare SMN to other DD, you have to add in Garuda's damage (250 criticals and 5k Pred Claws). No, we don't compete because our gear only improves half our damage, but it's not nearly as bad as it sounds.
The only thing that keeps schooling me is that stupid BP timer. When it is down, I have to stop playing. -
05-06-2011, 12:45 PMCettWhat!? A summoner not melee'ing 100% of the time. Inconceivable! What a lazy summoner /nod :DQuote:
Originally Posted by Dallas
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05-06-2011, 03:11 PMLeonlionheartWell keep rocking that staff then~ It's better to enjoy a job than to just play a job because its the current trend.Quote:
Originally Posted by Dallas
It IS a game after all. So as long as you're not bringing anyone down through your gear (I doubt you are by using this staff lol), and you're choices aren't simply retarded, then have a blast. I'm sure you can rock the house using that staff. -
05-06-2011, 04:44 PMDallasI don't melee when dead either. It's pretty much a perfect correlation.Quote:
Originally Posted by Cett
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05-07-2011, 12:35 PMRakshaQuote:
Originally Posted by Cett
Go to WoE on a healer job and offer to heal people for ruin coins.
I guarantee you'll be the biggest rock star in all of WoE