Random Augment system.

I head a quote from A Borderlands 2 designer that went thusly "We want you guys to have fun and to kill you off just because we thought it would be funny isn't really conducive to fun since being extremely frustrated about forced death is usually not fun..."

You guys (the dev team) want us to have fun.... don't you? You don't want us to be frustrated... and angry... and break stuff..?

This may seem like it has nothing to do with FFXI. I shall now explain how it has EVERYTHING to do with, at least one system, in FFXI.

The random augment system. There is this argument, which I do not understand. Some people love 'random' augments because they believe if we have a random augment system, the dev team will make them more powerful. This is a useless time sink. Just yesterday I was ranting at my monitor, after I used a total of 12 verdi stones +1 to get..... -2% PDT on some cizin gloves that I HATE HATE HATE HATE the STUPID BLANKETY BLANKETY BLANK RANDOM AUGMENT SYSTEM, and my husband says very calmly, you just hate it because you have terrible luck. WHY is it that a game I have been paying for, for 10 years now, mind you, has a system where I have to sit there for hours doing medial **** when someone else, that has been playing for a month, can get on and get something on the first **** try??? This system is terrible. Please never ever ever ever do it again, just get rid of it all together. No one is going to mind getting an augment they want on THE FIRST TRY.

On the positive side of things.... I ADORE what you have done with the 'delve' armor. Letting us pick our path and upgrade things as we see fit. You get even more 'points' for letting us make multiple armors for different jobs. Bravo!

Now please to make it the same for every other 'augment able' piece of armor in the game.

Took me 95 +2 stones to get my first DA+2 augment on an Otronif piece. Can't say i'm too terribly thrilled when others got the same on all 5 pieces with as few as 10 stones.

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Originally Posted by Kavik

has a system where I have to sit there for hours doing medial **** when someone else, that has been playing for a month, can get on and get something on the first **** try???

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Maybe it's not meant for any player to sit in front on the computer screen all day and night doing 1 thing. You wouldn't stand in front of a booth all day trying your luck at the carnival on 1 game would you?

Trying your luck on 1 thing doesn't mean you'll have the same luck trying various things.

You want power, it's not going to be given instantly, otherwise what's the point in having augment system to begin with? If players could get max stats instantly then I'm sure DEVs would just give you a one time quest upgrade like Magian trials.

Anger comes from spending 10 hours of torture failure than spending a few minutes a day doing intervals of a task over time.

Meaning I would be pissed off angry too if I was staring at the computer screen 10 hours non stop enduring failure after failure torturing myself.

My Damatica +1 has max +6 Fastcast +6 Mag Acc, +3% occasionally quickspell casting.

Took about a week spending 1-2 hours a day random times.

If I failed after an hour or 2, I went and did something else.

(By the way 10 hours was just an example)

I spent over 6 mil to upgrade my Dalmatica. After materials and fees hiring synergist that is. I'm quite happy with the results and the accomplishment of the augments I have sets me apart from many players. The rarity of the stats make it rewarding.

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Originally Posted by Daemon

You want power, it's not going to be given instantly, otherwise what's the point in having augment system to begin with? If players could get max stats instantly then I'm sure DEVs would just give you a one time quest upgrade like Magian trials.

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Guess what, that's not what she's saying.
If you actually take time to read the post and not come down with a wall of text forcing your views down someone's throat with walls of text while basing yourself on only the subject title you see that she's perfectly fine to have to work for things.

The big beef here, and the reason I and many other people were done with the mind numbingly boring Skirmish 2 after the second day of release was the crappy random augment system where the best augment someone that put time, effort and huge amounts of gil into it got was acc +5 when the next person gets their desired augments within the firts 3 stones.

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Originally Posted by Shirai

Guess what, that's not what she's saying.
If you actually take time to read the post and not come down with a wall of text forcing your views down someone's throat with walls of text while basing yourself on only the subject title you see that she's perfectly fine to have to work for things.

The big beef here, and the reason I and many other people were done with the mind numbingly boring Skirmish 2 after the second day of release was the crappy random augment system where the best augment someone that put time, effort and huge amounts of gil into it got was acc +5 when the next person gets their desired augments within the firts 3 stones.

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I know how to read. Do you automatically assume everyone who posts an opinion come to these forums to "force" their point of view on others?

I didn't make you read my opinion did I?

Do you always start off your replies to others with an insult?

Then again you already stated the obvious problem.

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Originally Posted by Shirai

after the second day of release

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Of course it's going to be expensive. Supply & demand plus hype.

Unless you expect to get everything from skirmish with max augs in 2 days.

Just because a handful of players were lucky doesn't mean hundreds of others are. Which is unavoidable.

I see so many people come to these forums in the state of anger. Would you like it if someone approached you in anger everytime they had a problem?

Most topics written were made from the minds of an angry frustrated person which is how I saw the OP.

Using Caps obviously gave me that impression.

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Originally Posted by Daemon

Just because a handful of players were lucky doesn't mean hundreds of others are. Which is unavoidable.

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And that is the entire issue!!!
With the Delve Augments you can choose a path and to max those also takes time, effort and maybe gil but you know what the end result will be and somewhat how long it will take you to get there.

With Skirmish it's a game of roulette, which can either cost you a few gil and a few days if you're lucky, or take months of repeating the same thing over, and over, and over without getting even close to the desired result and without knowing how long or how much it will take before you do get what you are looking for.
With an event that by itself is coma inducingly boring.
And for what? Gear that may be completely obsolete again when the next Delve hits?

And all I read from your reply is "Lol, deal with it."

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Originally Posted by Shirai

And that is the entire issue!!!
With the Delve Augments you can choose a path and to max those also takes time, effort and maybe gil but you know what the end result will be and somewhat how long it will take you to get there.

With Skirmish it's a game of roulette, which can either cost you a few gil and a few days if you're lucky, or take months of repeating the same thing over, and over, and over for weeks or months without the desired result and without knowing how long or how much it will take before you do get what you are looking for.
And for what? Gear that may be completely obsolete when the next round of Delve hits?

And all I read from your reply is "Lol, deal with it."

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Well the problem I see is that people try to compare other systems and expect it to be the same.

Delve Rank system is fair 100% because you can earn your ranks and achieve the goal you set on your own time knowing what the end results is already. Which is the same results anyone can achieve.

But Skirmish augment system is different.

It's not that I'm saying "deal with it"

My intention is to just give you a different point of view.

Skirmish augment system gives you random stats correct? Which means this system is made to give players different stats that not everyone can have the same.

Delve rank system however allows everyone to achieve the same stats.

The reward from Skirmish augments is allowing you to have unique power that others don't have.

Til this day I have yet to see any player have the same stats as I have on my Dalmatica +1. Which means its very rare.

And that's the reward Skirmish augment system gives you.

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Originally Posted by Shirai

And that is the entire issue!!!
With the Delve Augments you can choose a path and to max those also takes time, effort and maybe gil but you know what the end result will be and somewhat how long it will take you to get there.

With Skirmish it's a game of roulette, which can either cost you a few gil and a few days if you're lucky, or take months of repeating the same thing over, and over, and over without getting even close to the desired result and without knowing how long or how much it will take before you do get what you are looking for.
With an event that by itself is coma inducingly boring.
And for what? Gear that may be completely obsolete again when the next Delve hits?

And all I read from your reply is "Lol, deal with it."

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Fret not. I am sure in the next few days he will make 7 or so topics on random crap he likes to spew.

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Originally Posted by Morier

Fret not. I am sure in the next few days he will make 7 or so topics on random crap he likes to spew.

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I'm sure you will still be there to criticize with your superiorness. I forget I'm always under the presence of royalty.

Just like the day you enjoyed me being kicked out of alliance doing Botulus Rex instantly without explanation or warning telling me to "Learn to scholar" when the entire group of DD wiped out and I was in light arts raising people.

Oh but I didn't proc Tier IV BLM spell and a Black Mage had to do it for me instead.

Which after I spent 500k on displacers to help that alliance to begin with.

And til this day you are still criticizing me on everything I say or do even on the forums.

If GM feels the need to ban me so be it but I'm tired of being nice only to be judged and mistreated.

So if you want to continue Morier go ahead. I'm already use to it.

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Originally Posted by Shirai

And that is the entire issue!!!
With the Delve Augments you can choose a path and to max those also takes time, effort and maybe gil but you know what the end result will be and somewhat how long it will take you to get there."

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i agree with you choose a path and working for it is much better as stupid random augments

Gotta say I am really unthrilled with the random augments too. Did some Skirmish 2 last night with my BF and decided to put my +1 stones in the armor; 2 of those stones which I bought with gil. 3 times in a row I had gotten the same lame augment with my +1s; Physical Damage Taken -1%. I know the +1s aren't as "powerful" as a +2, but to be able to get a crap augment like that with a +1 when I can get that with an NQ is just dumb. If you want it to be random fine, but at least tier the stones so that with a +2 stone you can get the lowest of the high end. This is why I haven't dropped 1M on the +2 stone; would be a total waste of gil.

Also, augmenting aside, I would like to say it was kind of lazy in design to reuse the armor models from the Furia sets.

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Originally Posted by Daemon

I'm sure you will still be there to criticize with your superiorness. I forget I'm always under the presence of royalty.

Just like the day you enjoyed me being kicked out of alliance doing Botulus Rex instantly without explanation or warning telling me to "Learn to scholar" when the entire group of DD wiped out and I was in light arts raising people.

Oh but I didn't proc Tier IV BLM spell and a Black Mage had to do it for me instead.

Which after I spent 500k on displacers to help that alliance to begin with.

And til this day you are still criticizing me on everything I say or do even on the forums.

If GM feels the need to ban me so be it but I'm tired of being nice only to be judged and mistreated.

So if you want to continue Morier go ahead. I'm already use to it.

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Make 2 threads about it.

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Originally Posted by Morier

Make 2 threads about it.

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Not worth it

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Originally Posted by Daemon

Not worth it

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Yea get off your cross.Back on topic. I like random augment system but they need to make the +1 and +2 have a minimum tier that is above the lowest tier of nq stones.

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Originally Posted by Morier

Yea get off your cross.Back on topic. I like random augment system but they need to make the +1 and +2 have a minimum tier that is above the lowest tier of nq stones.

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Step down from your throne your highness.

Back to the topic, i think random augments are good for some of us who like to own gear that not everyone else has. It might take time to earn the materials or save up Gil to upgrade until you get decent to impressive stats but once you do get it, its an item that makes you feel special.

Some players might feel like they are the only person on the server to have it. Which is something I wish we had more often. It gets tiring working hard for an item that everyone else eventually gets.

Random augments feels more valuable.

Both of you just shut the fuck up, this forum is not meant for you to argue with other people on a daily basis and turn every thread about you. If you cant stick to the topic, even in argument, then get the hell off the forum, because all your doing is ruining every topic you get into at this point.

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Originally Posted by Daemon

i think random augments are good for some of us who like to own gear that not everyone else has. It might take time to earn the materials or save up Gil to upgrade until you get decent to impressive stats but once you do get it, its an item that makes you feel special.

Some players might feel like they are the only person on the server to have it. Which is something I wish we had more often. It gets tiring working hard for an item that everyone else eventually gets.

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The Cizin, Iuitl and Otronif sets have two kinds of augments: Augments that are "+2% Double Attack / Physical Damage Taken -4%" on the nose and augments that are worse than "+2% Double Attack / Physical Damage Taken -4%". How unique! How varied!

The mage gear supports having varied goals to a greater degree, I guess, but that also means it's possible to expend twice as much time by going through a bunch of Summoner-centric augments while trying to get Magic Attack Bonus or vice versa.

Random is never good in MMORPG.

Luck-based reward systems are terrible and should be avoided as often as possible.

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Originally Posted by Demon6324236

Both of you just shut the fuck up, this forum is not meant for you to argue with other people on a daily basis and turn every thread about you. If you cant stick to the topic, even in argument, then get the hell off the forum, because all your doing is ruining every topic you get into at this point.

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Stick to the topic or shut the fuck up, I believe you said. Take your own advice.I reeled it back in and got it back on track and you run it off course again.

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Originally Posted by SpankWustler

The Cizin, Iuitl and Otronif sets have two kinds of augments: Augments that are "+2% Double Attack / Physical Damage Taken -4%" on the nose and augments that are worse than "+2% Double Attack / Physical Damage Taken -4%". How unique! How varied!

The mage gear supports having varied goals to a greater degree, I guess, but that also means it's possible to expend twice as much time by going through a bunch of Summoner-centric augments while trying to get Magic Attack Bonus or vice versa.

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Well Sky gear didn't have augments in the beginning, did it occur that maybe the DEV Team put this out first and might add more later?

Maybe they put this as a base, then analyze the overall outcome of the event and power it effects the entire community before further adding more details. Plus analyze feedback of Skirmish and the rewards.

I just think its too early to assume the worse.

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Originally Posted by Demon6324236

Both of you just shut the fuck up, this forum is not meant for you to argue with other people on a daily basis and turn every thread about you. If you cant stick to the topic, even in argument, then get the hell off the forum, because all your doing is ruining every topic you get into at this point.

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Well DJ I didn't ruin anything. I simply responded to the topic in question and then have people jump on me every reply with insults. Maybe if you go back and read how the topic started you would see that than indirectly tell me to STFUAGTFO.

I don't have an equal right like everybody else to participate in these forums?

Responding to posts like yours doesn't help us to stay on topic either which is exactly why we get off topic to begin with.

When you insult people, responses happen.

You do know that in order to participate in these forums you have to have an account activated. Since you already know I don't have time to login and play, basically I am paying sub fee to be here. Which I believe that entitles me to have an equal right to post opinions like everyone else.

I wouldn't mind the random augments so much... (except on Hagondes stuff... because... dear God... sooooooo many possible augments...)
If it was more than the -PDT that was guaranteed. (Like you always get SOME augment... even if it's lame like +1% cure potency.)

I've got a better idea.

Why not both?

Yorica gives us both random armor drops and specific ones we can trade wings for.

Why not have a single stone provide a random augment, but, say five or ten of those stones (with an according multiple of bayld cost as well) provide a "best case" augment of choice for the tier?

I do a bucketload of Yorica and end up with 5 +1 Verdigris Stones. I blow all five + 2500 Bayld and get a best-case +1 augment of my choice on an armor piece instead of a random one for a single stone + 500 Bayld- or I can take my chances with a single stone.

People will still be doing Skirmish for tons of stones as a result.

Edit bonus: Let people trade in unaugmented armor pieces for a stone- hands/feet for NQ, head/legs for +1, body/shield for +2. Now nothing goes to waste even if it's useless!

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Originally Posted by Rustic

I've got a better idea.

Why not both?

Yorica gives us both random armor drops and specific ones we can trade wings for.

Why not have a single stone provide a random augment, but, say five or ten of those stones (with an according multiple of bayld cost as well) provide a "best case" augment of choice for the tier?

I do a bucketload of Yorica and end up with 5 +1 Verdigris Stones. I blow all five + 2500 Bayld and get a best-case +1 augment of my choice on an armor piece instead of a random one for a single stone + 500 Bayld- or I can take my chances with a single stone.

People will still be doing Skirmish for tons of stones as a result.

Edit bonus: Let people trade in unaugmented armor pieces for a stone- hands/feet for NQ, head/legs for +1, body/shield for +2. Now nothing goes to waste even if it's useless!

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Hmmm.... this has potential.....
BUT....
And I'm mainly just thinking about Hagondes with its 20 possible augments...
It doesn't really solve the issue about getting +pet atk when want/needing +MAB (not +pet MAB).

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Originally Posted by FaeQueenCory

Hmmm.... this has potential.....
BUT....
And I'm mainly just thinking about Hagondes with its 20 possible augments...
It doesn't really solve the issue about getting +pet atk when want/needing +MAB (not +pet MAB).

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Why wouldn't it? Drop enough stones on it to pick your augment, choose +MAB. Problem solved.

I would like to point out in relation to my Caps, this was a narrative of how beyond frustrated I was and had nothing to do with any sense of entitlement or whatever. Also, I got -3% physical damage taken on my cizin body and put a +2 on it and got -1% pdt. After i said 'no thanks' to that, i used a regular stone and got -1% pdt, next stone gave me -4% pdt. So... if you can get the same or better augments (via random) on a regular one, why on earth would you add in something more rare/difficult to obtain? It takes up space you could have used for something else. You could also do it this way, which would make much more sense without totally removing the random augments some of the playerbase seems so obsessed with. Make it possible to specify which path you want to work towards. When you ask to put the stone on it says 'do you want to try for double attack? magic attack? pet magic attack?' etc. and then make the minimums higher. regular whatever gives you high chance of 1, +1 gives you high chance of at least 2, +2 gives you higher chance of starting with +3 or -3 whatever. I have not done yorcia weald skirmish since this incident. I would like to point that i have a dozen Magian Trial weapons, I also have Aegis, Ochain, and am working on Excalibur, and have delve clears. All of which I have funded through spending untold hours farming and selling items for, I am not opposed to work. The random augment system though, the way I see it, works like this - "Come to work today, you may get paid 50 cents an hour, or you may get paid $10 and hour, you wont know till you get your paycheck". Why would you go to work for someone like this?

Personal i dont mind the random augments but i do think there should be a way to greatly up the amount of stones obtained (like i don't know maybe a stone polish traded when you trade the statues in can be 3 different kinds, one for stones one for armor and one for crafting items[worthless i know]) and like Rustic said possibly the ability to break down unneeded armor and wings into stones.

1 thing that would make random Augments suck less, if fragments actually dropped, then we could actually buy a stone worth using once a century. In all of the runs I have done, I currently have around 60% of what I need for a +2 stone, I have never spent them, ever, and yet, such a small amount. Getting 1~2 at random from mobs is stupid, it should be higher, I'm not asking for 1k a mob or something, but seriously, 50 a mob like Delve, that's around 2500 a run if you kill 50 mobs, that's 8 runs for a single +2 stone if you do both objectives, to me, that seems fair...

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Originally Posted by Rustic

Why wouldn't it? Drop enough stones on it to pick your augment, choose +MAB. Problem solved.

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OH! I misunderstood you.
Yeah. that totes works wonders.

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Originally Posted by Demon6324236

1 thing that would make random Augments suck less, if fragments actually dropped, then we could actually buy a stone worth using once a century. In all of the runs I have done, I currently have around 60% of what I need for a +2 stone, I have never spent them, ever, and yet, such a small amount. Getting 1~2 at random from mobs is stupid, it should be higher, I'm not asking for 1k a mob or something, but seriously, 50 a mob like Delve, that's around 2500 a run if you kill 50 mobs, that's 8 runs for a single +2 stone if you do both objectives, to me, that seems fair...

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On the other hand, multiple high-tier Skirmish Noetics can be quite a pile of fragments in Skirmish. 1-1-1 runs on the other hand, considerably less.

Faithful legs beef up how many Noetics show up. II adds one, III two...up to V being 4. They also up the fragment rewards as well. Rala/Cirdas ones go 100-200-300-400-500 per from I-V, Yorica 150-300-450-600-750.

So if you do a I-I-V on Yorica? That's 750 x 5 = 3,750 fragments from Noetics alone, plus whatever from kills and trading in junk NQ stones for more fragments at the Inventor's. And of course, a higher torso piece adds more Noetics (though not improving them).

Rewards for fragments tend to be puny owing to folks using the weakest parts possible to build a KI, not because the rewards aren't there.

Edit: And heck, higher tier Visages often skip the whole process because they up the odds of +1/+2 stones simply dropping to begin with.

Unless they changed something within the last 2 days, highly unlikely, you cant pick the same bonus twice, or at least, its never let me, which means even with V legs you get about 1k max per run.