Make bahamut a summon

now some may say not possble se lists the reason besides weaken him is size issue and thats just bs look at diablos in crawlers nest tunnels his wings go through the walls and kurma going through the ceiling in cridas caverns se can add him if there smart about balanceing him my idea is size wise make him big as diablos say give him the spells he used in storms of fate fire v and flare then give him a breath attack that ignores say 15% of the monsters magic defences and then give him a physical attack dragon rend( could be 2-3 hit move) then as for his bp ward buff that lessens dmg from dragons or wyrms then a buff that lets breath attacks deal more dmg or healing breath heal more as for his 1hr thats hard to say since he has 2 in the storms of fate fight mega and giga flare id like to get postive feed back on the post so like it and SE might just add him and post new abiltys and stuff just maybe they will do it!

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Originally Posted by vavant

maybe they will do it!

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And maybe we're getting Cait Sith anytime soon.

Not that i wouldn't love summoning Bahamut, but I'd rather want them to finish what they already started.
And I'd like them to fix the job, in its current abilities, before dealing with a brand new work in progress. Imo, ammos and staves are far from enough; smn has other issues, which have been stated by players too many times.

true cait was announced 2yrs ago and all they got is a demo vid of a smn controling it idk i think se is saving cait and seeing if ffxi is failing might released it to get ppl intrested again at this point idk what se is doing with cait if what i think is true cait wont be added till seekers stuff gets smoothed out then turn to cait and atmos imo i think its the reason they didnt do it before now probly most are working on ff14 and skeleton crew probly atm on new avatars

I dont care how, I want bahamut as well. Bahamut is a staple for any FF title summoning why should this be any different?

story-wise his is only one where 2hr only use would make sense IMO, but id love to have him following around.

maybe a smn "relic" w/ bahamut on it to use? but one thing i expect from him: nonelemental magic damage

Quote:

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Originally Posted by vavant

now some may say not possble se lists the reason besides weaken him is size issue and thats just bs look at diablos in crawlers nest tunnels his wings go through the walls and kurma going through the ceiling in cridas caverns se can add him if there smart about balanceing him my idea is size wise make him big as diablos say give him the spells he used in storms of fate fire v and flare then give him a breath attack that ignores say 15% of the monsters magic defences and then give him a physical attack dragon rend( could be 2-3 hit move) then as for his bp ward buff that lessens dmg from dragons or wyrms then a buff that lets breath attacks deal more dmg or healing breath heal more as for his 1hr thats hard to say since he has 2 in the storms of fate fight mega and giga flare id like to get postive feed back on the post so like it and SE might just add him and post new abiltys and stuff just maybe they will do it!

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10 lines with no punctuation....?

The ONLY way to do Bahamut would be to use the same concept as Black Mage's Meteor. Have 3+ Summoners cast the ability at the same time and make it fire one big attack. It should expend the 1hr just like Odin and Alex. Or, even better to make it as powerful as SE wants him to be, have it expend both 1hr's.

>_> I am not a fan of meteor's.... severe lack of utility.
I'd rather not have Bahamut rather than having a crappier Odin.

As we begin to ascend to higher plateaus of power, the "Bahamut is so strong we didn't want to have to weaken him" argument is starting to lose it's punch. After all this time, I think Bahamut needs to simply come to grips with the fact that we've saved the world at least half a dozen times by now, and get over himself.

All of SE's excuses regarding the "power" of an Avatar are demonstratably silly. Originally it was Bahamut who was "just too strong" to be summoned; then it was Alexander and Odin who were so powerful that we could only call upon them for a short time.

The core concept of the Summoner job is that we are able to summon a fraction of an Avatar's power. When we defeat a Celestial Prime avatar, the game says precisely that - something about the Avatar granting the player a "fragment of their power". Simply put, a Summoner doesn't summon Shiva herself, nor do they summon Shiva Prime. We call upon that fragment of power that we have been granted as part of the pact. That's why we can't level cities starting at level 1.

Once this key aspect of Summoner is clarified, any talk of Avatars being too powerful to summon becomes nonsense. So long as we are able to forge a pact with an Avatar, we can summon it. Bahamut, Odin and Alexander are no different - we've entered into dialogue with all three entities, so there is no reason why SE cannot come up with a feasible questline through which sensible pact may be formed.

The game practically throws evidence for this at us: (potential spoilers)

• When we fight Celestial Avatars, we're not fighting the real thing. The thing we fight is a "copy" summoned by the true Avatar, which is asleep in the crystal at the back of the battlefield. The Celestial Avatars have the power to completely revert the world to "paradise" if they are completely awoken; they aren't messing around. Arguably the game has demonstrated that the Celestial Avatars are far more powerful than the Terrestrial Avatars (which includes Bahamut), and we can summon all of them.
  
• Fenrir has the power to bring prosperity and fertility to an entire continent for hundreds of years. That's why Windurst has flourished so much under his guardianship; it's the the basis of the entire Windurstian nation story.
  
• Diabolos has the power to create entire dimensions based on his own perception. That's Dynamis, which spans huge areas of Vana'diel and is "home" to hundreds, if not thousands, of former soldiers and monsters.
  
• When we fight Fenrir Prime in his acquisition quest, we're also not fighting the entity itself. You don't have to have completed Windurst's questline to fight Fenrir Prime, so in this state he's still "dead", "asleep", or otherwise a non-entity. The power of the six Celestial whispers is used by Carbuncle to summon Fenrir Prime; he is, as the Celestial Primes are, a mere shadow of the entity itself. Again, we are given a whisper with which to summon him - a fragment of power.
  
• Karaha-Baruha shows us what "true Summoning" is. His art of Animastery is entirely different to our own; when he summons Fenrir, he summons FENRIR. The actual entity. The effect is devestating (and suicidal), and far beyond a player's abilities. Fenrir's true power is obviously immense and, as a Terrestrial Avatar, Fenrir is roughly comparable to Bahamut, who is inexplicably "too powerful".
  
• Fenrir, Carbuncle and Diabolos have all spoken or referred to one another at some point. They seem to treat one another as equals. Bahamut also speaks to Phoenix at once point in the same way. They're all the same "type of thing" - Terrestrial Avatars. There's no reason why one would be more powerful than the others; Bahamut is the "Wyrmking", ruler of Wyrms, not the "TerrestrialAvatarKing", ruler of Terrestrial Avatars.
  
• We've already battled Bahamut in various forms in battlefields not too different from Prime battles. Never have we had to prove ourselves the "equal" of an Avatar to be granted a pact (arguably impossible), only "worthy". There's no reason why this isn't possible.

Ultimately, all the excuses are nonsense. There is NO in-game justification for not making Bahamut summonable, nor is there any in-game justification for making such pointless pseudo-Avatars of Alexander, Odin and (potentially) Atomos. It also pre-emptively sullies any excuses about Phoenix being dead preventing her being summonable - Fenrir was just as dead as Phoenix at one point.

I'm not really arguing either way that Bahamut should be summonable or not. I just want to point out that SE's excuses are just that - excuses. We shouldn't accept them as gospel when discussing Avatars.

Also, Jerbob.... Carbuncle and Phoenix talked with each other as equals...
Am I the only one who remembers that conversation it went like this:
"So.... I think it's a great idea to destroy the entire universe... I've been tricking these smns into making pacts with the Celestial Avatars... so that if I get enough of them.. then the Perfect world will be reforged!" - Carby
"Grrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr no................................." - Phoenix shard
"Oh WTF, Carbuncle!?"-Me

Carbuncle, Fenrir, Phoenix, Diabolos, and Bahamut aren't even actual gods.
The only gods are Ifrit, Shiva, Garuda, Titan, Ramuh, Leviathan, Odin, and Alexander. (Altana and Promathia are a tier above them... so... "super" gods.)
Carby and friends are just leftovers from the Perfect World that existed before the Mother crysal was shattered because... something happened. (it's never been really clear what caused it to shatter... Promathia? Him dying? Altana being emo? something.)
And because Carby is a Perfect Rarab, Fenrir is a Perfect Wolf, Phoenix is a Perfect Bird, Diabolos is a Perfect Imp/Kindred, and Bahamut is a Perfect Dragon... they appear as Divinities to us crappy mortals.
It's a fundamental plot point that they know that they are ultimately PoS.
Phoenix is against Sephirothic Carbuncle's plan because She's in pieces... meaning... Perfect World remade: instadeath.
Diabolos doesn't want to be just a janky mortal... So He's GTFO, and made his own "escape pod" from the Universe.

You are 100% right, Jerbob...
If I can summon a True Divinity... even if just a fraction... how is dumb wyrm "too powerful".

Exactly. It's just excuses within excuses.

Off topic, I recall reading somewhere that Carbuncle is just as eager as everyone else to avoid the world's reversion to Paradise. As I understand it, having summoners make pacts with the Celestial Avatars is about allowing the gods to experience the "imperfect world" through mortals - to understand their plight, as it were. Carbuncle hopes that this will stop them returning everything to Paradise when they do finally awaken. The other Terrestrial Avatars don't think it'll work and are willing to bet that the Celestials will never reawaken. Carbuncle's just making a different gamble that could either screw us all or save us permenantly.

CoP mission. Part of the Tenzin path iirc.

Carby reveals he hopes to reawaken the Gods by having enough ppl poke them enough... I think he hoped that would remake the Perfect World without Promathia..... but.... That would just result in the Perfect World.

Though... his logic was flawed... maybe... because it wasn't the Gods sleeping that broke the Mother Crystal... it was the break of the Mother Crystal that put them to sleep.

Either way...
It's not "David Bowie" who is FFXI's "Sephiroth"...
It's not his brother...
It's not Promathia...
It's not Lilith...
It's Carbuncle.
Carbuncle is FFXI's Sephiroth Character.

Anything that looks like a squirrel is evil. no other reason needed to justify.