Hurkan drops

Hello.

i fought hurkan 4 times.

the first, i didn't get any drop, but still got the ki, so i didn't complain much.
i saw there was a post here about it and let it go.

some times after that, i did two more, where i got bullet and grip. no problem here.

last night i spent ~4h fighting Hurkan for a darksteel ore.
i though this problem was fixed, with some of the emergency maintnance (that always come in EU playtime) or august update.

i contacted a gm, but he couldn't help me.
told me that the evaluation system was working fine but couldn't tell me if i did something wrong.

colonisation was at 100%
when i came in it was at ~95% hp
i was on summonner i didn't afk the whole time
i did "lot" of damage on the nakual(unresisted bp ~2k with the occasionnal 6k odin), buffed and healed a bit.
the evaluation seems fine since i got ~12k bayld from the whole fight, so why no drop ?

in the end, i still i lost ~4h, ~38k baylds and ~6k xp.

also, i saw looking here that the thread i saw on my first no drop Hurkan was still in the "planning to adress" section here : http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxi/threads/35630-Wildkeeper-reive-rewards

that post is almost a month old, and either i'm really unlucky or this is a rather common occurence. care to explain why this wasn't fixed yet ?

They did fix that issue... It happened where you could go in once the mob was under a certain percent and not get assessments...

The issue that you are having is that you (theoretically) rolled an item that you already had. If you had sent your grip and cape to a mule, than you would have gotten wither the grip or the cape again... I know, it sucks, but that's the way it is.

doesn't it usualy works so if you have a rare item, it can't drop ?

i know they aren't really "drops", but the same system should apply.
seems like a bug to me...

ps : if it works like that for the jse capes i'm keeping all the one for the jobs i don't have for nothing if it doesn't prevent them from "droping" again.

I think that with these wk monsters its like shinryu

The drop slot can be filled with something you already have, and thus nothing will appear because it's rare-flagged.

Yeah it's total BS but that's apparently working as intended. Done Hurkaan 6 times now on 2 characters and each only has grip and bullet <.<

I battled Hurkan today from 100% HP and battle lasted around 3 hours. And all I got for my effort was a Velk Necklace and a Damascus Ingot.

How do they expect me to do this once again? I won't do a Wildskeeper Reive ever again unless it is for KI.

I'm a gimped player, and that's all thanks to the game's reward drops mechanism related to Colonization and Wildskeeper's Reives. My time and effort dedicated to this should not be proportional as to come out with undesirable items or, even worse, empty handed.

I have just finished a Hurkan battle and only got a pebble from it. The past 2 times got a grip and the axe as part of the guaranteed drop items. I'm very dissapointed and mad as it costs me 50k bayld to use the key item and its quite hard to get to that amount. They need to fix this

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Originally Posted by Raymos

I have just finished a Hurkan battle and only got a pebble from it. The past 2 times got a grip and the axe as part of the guaranteed drop items. I'm very dissapointed and mad as it costs me 50k bayld to use the key item and its quite hard to get to that amount. They need to fix this

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It's like oldschool Dynamis all over again... People go in and expect that they should at least get *something* that they want, but often times it will drop things that no one needs. The only difference is that these don't go into the loot pool. (or it doesn't say: Bamph got BLAHBLAHBLAH as a reward. Bamph can only hold 1 of these items. Reward relinquished. I think that would bother me more.)

I mean, how many times did a party go into dyna-xarc to get thf gloves, but came out with nothing... (not exactly the same since there are no guaranteed drops, but close.)

Well and another difference is for this you have to farm a bit and spend gil to enter while dynamis generally you made gil from the currency. Plus I've never had a dynamis take 16 hours nor been forced to put up with people who will pull the zone to repeatidly wipe you

I was talking more about the drop system and how you can't really pick what you want to get... This is actually like a mix of new dynamis (you can enter whenever you want with the caveat that the Naakual is up), and besieged/campaign (it's a free-for all, anyone can attack anything, and anyone can cause a wipe).

Plus, old-school dynamis had a fairly hefty entrance fee (1M iirc), and if you wiped and no one had rr, or if you wiped in a bad spot, etc..., then you were pretty much rooked.

Yes but this battle is much more onerous in nature so doesn't really compare like that. And 1 mil first of all isn't much gil to begin with especially divided among 50+ people. And that example is still bad. Sure you were out 1 mil if you sucked and wiped without RR. But first of all you would only be out a few minutes of time vs who knows how many hours of wildskeeper and two it was your own damn fault you failed. You could improve and make it so you always came out on top gil wise while in wildskeeper it doesn't matter if the game wants to give you a pebble you get a pebble and that's all there is to it. And 3rdly in the time it takes to just farm the balyd I could farm much more than a million gil and that is required of everyone entering while the gil was only required of the group as a whole

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Originally Posted by dasva

Yes but this battle is much more onerous in nature so doesn't really compare like that. And 1 mil first of all isn't much gil to begin with especially divided among 50+ people. And that example is still bad. Sure you were out 1 mil if you sucked and wiped without RR. But first of all you would only be out a few minutes of time vs who knows how many hours of wildskeeper and two it was your own damn fault you failed. You could improve and make it so you always came out on top gil wise while in wildskeeper it doesn't matter if the game wants to give you a pebble you get a pebble and that's all there is to it. And 3rdly in the time it takes to just farm the balyd I could farm much more than a million gil and that is required of everyone entering while the gil was only required of the group as a whole

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Unless you're sitting there, the game will never "just give you a pebble." it will give you a pebble and some super rare item you already have... As for Bayld, sure, you could spend an hour farming gil, or an hour farming bayld for it (yes, I average 50k in an hour on my ranger), but you'll keep on doing it until you have everything you need, (or until they introduce a repeating quest that allows you to pick one item each time).

Unfortunately, this WK has been known to be to be glitched in the past and, judging from my own experience, is still glitched for at least some players. Like many, I also have both the grip and the bullet. Those were from my first two fights. I have fought Hurkan twelve times since then. In those twelve wins, I have never gone AFK, have earned AT LEAST 20k bayld per fight (the 20k was when Hurkan was already at 60% when I entered), and have done significant damage to both Hurkan and adds. Despite this, in those twelve wins I have earned two pebbles. Nine times I received no final evaluation whatsoever -- and no I have not D/C'd during fight, one time I received a final evaluation but not even a pebble, and twice I have received a final evaluation and a pebble. I can accept that the three times I have received a final evaluation, that the game may have rolled either the grip or the bullet for me again, but what about the other nine times? And to clarify, each of these fights has been AFTER the July 19th patch to this fight.

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Originally Posted by Bamph

Unless you're sitting there, the game will never "just give you a pebble." it will give you a pebble and some super rare item you already have... As for Bayld, sure, you could spend an hour farming gil, or an hour farming bayld for it (yes, I average 50k in an hour on my ranger), but you'll keep on doing it until you have everything you need, (or until they introduce a repeating quest that allows you to pick one item each time).

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Originally Posted by Aeneax

Unfortunately, this WK has been known to be to be glitched in the past and, judging from my own experience, is still glitched for at least some players. Like many, I also have both the grip and the bullet. Those were from my first two fights. I have fought Hurkan twelve times since then. In those twelve wins, I have never gone AFK, have earned AT LEAST 20k bayld per fight (the 20k was when Hurkan was already at 60% when I entered), and have done significant damage to both Hurkan and adds. Despite this, in those twelve wins I have earned two pebbles. Nine times I received no final evaluation whatsoever -- and no I have not D/C'd during fight, one time I received a final evaluation but not even a pebble, and twice I have received a final evaluation and a pebble. I can accept that the three times I have received a final evaluation, that the game may have rolled either the grip or the bullet for me again, but what about the other nine times? And to clarify, each of these fights has been AFTER the July 19th patch to this fight.

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Not receiving a final evaluation is a glitch. Not receiving an item is a glitch (if you don't have any of the items and made appropriate bayld, which is sounds like you do). I'd file a bug report under these circumstances, and be righteously pissed if it happened to me 9/12 times.

I'd suggest righteously pissed is the correct attitude for the system as it's intended to work, honestly.

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Originally Posted by Bamph

Unless you're sitting there, the game will never "just give you a pebble." it will give you a pebble and some super rare item you already have... As for Bayld, sure, you could spend an hour farming gil, or an hour farming bayld for it (yes, I average 50k in an hour on my ranger), but you'll keep on doing it until you have everything you need, (or until they introduce a repeating quest that allows you to pick one item each time).

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If nothing shows up in your treasure pool IT DIDN'T GIVE YOU THAT ITEM. Just because that's the item it chose for your reward doesn't mean it gave you jack shit. Because that's exactly what it gave me several runs in a row. So don't act like getting nothing is actually getting something. Not to mention what really are the odds of rolling the same 1 out of 6 items 5 times in a row on 2 different characters. Note it was a different item on the same nm for each character so highest possible droprate for both would be 50%. It's too low to be realistically possible is what it is. It sounds more like the game either you really just don't get drops and it isn't rerolling... or SE designed it with changing droprates so that items you had specifically had higher droprates.

And regardless it still doesn't change the fact that other large events with steep time investments in entrance fees you didn't have to deal with this BS. Even your dynamis example takes all of about maybe 1-2 manhours to farm for the entire group while this even with your supposed 50k balyd an hour (which isn't happening outside of skirmish which costs gil) is per person. So the cost to do this fight is more like 200+ manhours. And instead of a bunch of drops that can be sold to make up for that I get a pebble.

As for wether I will keep doing it I rather think I wont. The newer 2 are hardly shouted anymore because people are getting fed up and just going to wait for the better delve2 items because this is retarded and trying to defend this deliberate timesink/stall for updates is litterally mind boggling

My first run at Hurkan was about a week after it was added, and all I got was a cape for Cor and an ingot. The second try gave me a bullet and thundra II. I'm curious about what the possible spoils are but at this point. After alot of trying I'm left doing that WK reive only for the pet axe. Like other reives the prize is random and it doesn't swap out the rare drops if one already exists in your inventory. That said I still dont know how I got only a new JSE cape and an ingot on the first run. It could also be possible that JSE capes are also set into the same slot as the naakul loot. but at a much lower rate. Just think of it as the possible drop list for burning circles;
Slot #1 = 1 of the following,
Slot #2 = 1 of the following,
Slot #3 = 0 to 1 of the following

That said it just won't tell you "You do not meet the requirements for <name>..." When it does give a duplicate rare item it justs fizzles and slot 1 is gone. Second and third slots are probably what most people see as a result, unless the second slot also has R/E or Rare items in it's list as well.

As for the cost. I dont see the price getting lower than 50k. However I probably make either half the cost or just shy of the bayld cap in WK. It also not that bad to to re-farm it in the collination reives in marjami ravine.

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Originally Posted by dasva

As for wether I will keep doing it I rather think I wont. The newer 2 are hardly shouted anymore because people are getting fed up and just going to wait for the better delve2 items because this is retarded and trying to defend this deliberate timesink/stall for updates is litterally mind boggling

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I'm seeing a cool down on them also. it could also very well be that alot of people got what they wanted and moved on. I am noticing a slight pickup in the Yorca Weild WK reive as Hurkan slows a bit. People will do them and the jp folks will join in as long a mule is yelling updates on it. As for Delve 2 I'm wondering about wether they'll add delve zones for each naakul. Yorca Weild already has head parts for a new skirmish waypoint showing up in Marjami Ravine. So who knows..

So let's assume you want to get all the items from WK (for whatever reason). Let's assume, generously, that each item has an equal chance of dropping (even though it's likely weighted away from the good stuff). Let's also assume that you pick your item of choice from a given WK - in this example, I'll use Hurkan, who drops 6 items. Remember, since you get nothing on repeats, what happens is that as you are successful, your odds drop of future success.

Item1) Kill Hurkan x 1. (100% item drop.)
Item2) Order Up. (100% but only once.)
Item3) Kill Hurkan x 2. (66.7% item drop.)
Item4) Kill Hurkan x 2. (50% item drop.)
Item5) Kill Hurkan x 3. (33.3% item drop.)
Item6) Kill Hurkan x 4. (16.7% item drop.)

But wait, you can only use Order Up one time! So let's move on to Yumcax.

Item1) Kill Yumcax x 1. (100% item drop.)
Item2) Kill Yumcax x 2. (83.3% item drop.)
Item3) Kill Yumcax x 2. (66.7% item drop.)
Item4) Kill Yumcax x 2. (50% item drop.)
Item5) Kill Yumcax x 3. (33.3% item drop.)
Item6) Kill Yumcax x 4. (16.7% item drop.)

So roughly 13-17 kills, ~15 per, should do it. There are 7 WK monsters. That amounts to a tad more than 100 WK Reives, even with Order Up's absurdly weak 1 time, unrepeatable reward. How much Bayld is that? I'm not even going to attempt to figure it out (and it varies), but suffice to say when you factor in kill speed, you could easily spend your entire gaming experience working solely on these items and fail to acquire them before they are obsoleted.

Bottom Line: Finish Order Up, get your item of choice, and don't bother doing WK again. (Because, let's face it, the chance that the items aren't weighted against what you want are slim, and in that scenario your odds could be - likely are - much, much worse than this.)