NEW RARE Point System

Hey Guys I have an Idea for the DEV Team.

I think a NEW RARE ITEM DROP Point system would be nice for events like VoidWatch and Wildskeeper Reives so that we could buy Kis to purchase the rare gear as an ADDITIONAL OPTION rather have endless hope of a possibility of not getting what you went for "When you actually did put more than the effort." It's just tiring spamming the same boss over and over only to see lucky people spend less time than you get the rares.

Only to lose more hope each fight making everyone lose interest in playing these events.

With a point system at least this gives you hope that you will reach the goal of being able to buy one of the Rares or if you get what you wanted before earning enough points you still have hope to buy the gear that you really didn't have a lot of interest to buy to begin with which would motivate players to continue playing these events longer rather than quit because you don't need it and its not worth the effort to keep going after getting what you wanted. Like a DD might decide later he could buy the Mage gear.

I played Qilin 2,000+. Still no dagger. Had a point system been available allowing me to buy the dagger after 2,000 fights at least I earned it. Rather than quit and be pissed off several got a dagger 1/200.

200 and 2,000 fights is a BIG DIFFERENCE! Who wouldn't agree that a person should have earned an item like Coruscanti by now?

EXAMPLE
If I saw that I was at 1,800 points and 2,000 points were needed given that I only gain 1 point per fight. At least seeing that I only need 200 more points to go would motivate me to keep playing.

Being able to see your progress through the point system also gives you a reason to feel like you are still making progress when you do get crap drops or no drops.

I mean each time you play a boss you would still have the ability to get a rare by chance. My point is, this would give us a better reason to continue spamming These events and our presence to help others would last longer. Than us rage quitting because of how angry we are for putting too much time for a pebble, ore, log, no rare.

And well people no longer playing these events after they got their gear? Lack of finding people may also change.

I believe this would keep people interested in these events longer.

We know this system works. I believe Login Campaign proved this. Atleast several people walked away from the event satisfied.

Anyone Agree or Disagree?

As long as people will not dual box and abuse this, I don't see why this can't be put in. People getting screwed royally by the VW system (Because I now know how it feels since I'm 0/32 on Meikogai) can use this as a means to get their stuff that they need. Not only does this provide a challenge for players to do the fights and get their stuff, but you're still -earning- it since all spots in a typical VW party usually are very important, from the BLU to the heavy DD's, we're all participating, why shouldn't the players get what they earn instead of these ridiculous 2% chance rates? This is 2013 SE, not the friggen stone age of FFXI, if we don't get the shiny/clink clink, we don't want anything to do with it.

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Originally Posted by Anjou

As long as people will not dual box and abuse this, I don't see why this can't be put in. People getting screwed royally by the VW system (Because I now know how it feels since I'm 0/32 on Meikogai) can use this as a means to get their stuff that they need. Not only does this provide a challenge for players to do the fights and get their stuff, but you're still -earning- it since all spots in a typical VW party usually are very important, from the BLU to the heavy DD's, we're all participating, why shouldn't the players get what they earn instead of these ridiculous 2% chance rates? This is 2013 SE, not the friggen stone age of FFXI, if we don't get the shiny/clink clink, we don't want anything to do with it.

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Well if the points required were high like 2,000 fights and you only gained 1 point per kill. SE would also have to make it performance base to earn that point. Meaning you need contribute to the fight a certain way to earn that point. Not just bring 5 mules parked afk.

Which I've seen most people say "I contributed 10 hours to Yumcax and got a pebble"

Already wasted all this time 2,000+ fighting Qilin. I don't think I want to waste another 2,000 fights trying again. Is why I stopped playing VW. At least if I knew I could also earn it through points, then I'd go back and play again.

What's the point in having VW pulse cells if no one plays these events and no longer exist in AH? You need 5 Pulse to exchange it for gear. At least people hunting for HMP might also play VW more to earn a rare even if they already got it for the Gil.

Also something i mentioned in another post, Nakuul rare equipment needs to have a star next to it like Voidwatch or some kind of indicator letting people know these are not normal items, that these are special.

is order up repeatable? i dunno if we ever got an answer there.

but plasm is already this system, for delve. and if order up is repeatable, then that's another similar system.


i agree voidwatch had a godawful loot system, terrible. cannot say enough bad things about it. but adoulin has been shaping up to be WAY better.

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Originally Posted by Doombringer

is order up repeatable? i dunno if we ever got an answer there.

but plasm is already this system, for delve. and if order up is repeatable, then that's another similar system.


i agree voidwatch had a godawful loot system, terrible. cannot say enough bad things about it. but adoulin has been shaping up to be WAY better.

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Yup I totally agree with you but tell that to the people complaining about Yumcax lol.

This thread was created with the intention of presenting a reasonable idea that could make a difference for everyone. More support for this idea would greatly be appreciated or other ideas, debates added to see everyone else point of view in hopes that the DEV TEAM will hear our concerns and make it happen.

Regardless if you agree or disagree. Participating in this idea does make a difference and I encourage all of you to leave a comment and Thank you!

I don't think it should be 1 point per fight, the points should be given based solely on the fact of a completion bonus (As in prior tiers are completed before the one you fight) and then the tier.

So let's say you have up to Tier 5. Tier 5 will give you 5 points because of its difficulty, but then if you took the time to get the other tiers prior to it being completed, you get a few extra points for your effort. This'd get people some stuff fast than doing 2000 fights, but you gotta do the content to get the clink clink

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Originally Posted by Anjou

I don't think it should be 1 point per fight, the points should be given based solely on the fact of a completion bonus (As in prior tiers are completed before the one you fight) and then the tier.

So let's say you have up to Tier 5. Tier 5 will give you 5 points because of its difficulty, but then if you took the time to get the other tiers prior to it being completed, you get a few extra points for your effort. This'd get people some stuff fast than doing 2000 fights, but you gotta do the content to get the clink clink

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Well the point is not to give anyone something faster. It's to give you hope that you will still get something regardless than give up frustrated for dedicating so much time only to quit and be angry that the event sucked. Especially if you earned it.

That way no one will feel defeated by luck. At least if you failed by luck, you still can earn it through effort.

It doesn't make sense that 80% can get something rare in a reasonable time like 1 month VS someone who spend 6 months or more and put in much more time and effort than the rest only to be horribly unlucky.

That's why drop system is unfair. It's not that we hate competition, it that we hate putting more work into something others do less and sometimes go 1/1 vs someone who went 0/2,000.

Random drops (Voidwatch) is why I quit paying them for almost a year. My wife got 6 bodies, I got zero and I did more runs than she did. Happy for her, angry for me, tired of the BS = quit. I literally, literally, only came back because I saw that Delve uses a point system. Wildskeepers are moving in the wrong direction again, and I will stop paying them again if things continue that way.

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Originally Posted by Danita

Random drops (Voidwatch) is why I quit paying them for almost a year. My wife got 6 bodies, I got zero and I did more runs than she did. Happy for her, angry for me, tired of the BS = quit. I literally, literally, only came back because I saw that Delve uses a point system. Wildskeepers are moving in the wrong direction again, and I will stop paying them again if things continue that way.

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Yeah that's why I suggested this topic. Point systems turn out to be much more fair than luck.

I just hope people support this idea more.

Wonder if there's enough people left to support this idea..

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Originally Posted by Daemon

Wonder if there's enough people left to support this idea..

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600 people on Cerberus right now, 300 of which are afk in adoulin / jeuno. There has been one shout (all in japanese) in the last hour. If they don't do something soon, people will just quit because there is no one to play with and all the new content besides colonization reives requires other people.

On a related note, if they ever say they can't do something because of server stress again, I will reach through the inter webz and slap them and then be all like...

https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-h...4293034-11.gif

1010 people on Phoenix right now. 217 are in Adoulin, 177 in Jeuno. Not as in need of a merge as others, but we could use it, more than a 3rd of the server is standing around. I could look at the common fish bot spots but I fear the numbers...

Well I think SE heard and know about the idea for obtaining an item through other options than kill yourself hoping for it to drop based on Luck.

I mean I'm assuming that's why they implemented players to trade in 3 pieces of Emp for something else. Could be a testing phase to see how it works before making it happen in bigger events.

Which would explain why they said "We'e looking into this."

I just think a point system is more of an organized Visual concept that helps anyone to see at all times. Trading in gear would be good for lower level content because its already gear most people are passed.

Higher level would actually require holding onto the gear until you have enough pieces to trade than using point system. Which is not a good solution based on most end game players already have enough items overflowing to a major crisis.

At higher levels, rare point system could make a difference in pacing the event, keeping the playerbase informed that they don't have to worry about being out of luck, and gives motivation to continue playing.

Which is why Login Campaign worked.

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Originally Posted by Daemon

Which is why Login Campaign worked.

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I've seen this come up in a few other threads and I'm curious. How exactly did the log in campaign work? Not that I'm against it at all, I'm just curious. Besides putting a bunch of gear into the game and turning KB into a cluster bleep, what exactly did it do?

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Originally Posted by FrankReynolds

I've seen this come up in a few other threads and I'm curious. How exactly did the log in campaign work? Not that I'm against it at all, I'm just curious. Besides putting a bunch of gear into the game and turning KB into a cluster bleep, what exactly did it do?

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Each time you logged in, you got 1 point. The more you logged in the more points you got. But everyday the moment you logged on you could see your progress that showed you how many points you've earned and how many times you logged on total.

Several people commented how they enjoyed login campaign because even if some did not earn enough points to purchase something like Chocobo mask, people still got to earn items like beastly shank and other rewards.

My point about rare point system is that if you played WR or VW, having a point system that gives you points per fight allowing players to purchase a rare would overcome the obstacle of being unfair to those who suffer the luck system.

Example
While some players can get a rare in 1-5 fights, many others killing themselves fighting a boss over 200-2,000 fights and get angry that they did put in the time and effort and still didnt get what they wanted.

Atleast point system could allow players to try based on luck but still earn item after enough points which would be fair for everyone in the long run.

If you had horrible luck atleast earning and seeing your point progress could give you motivation to play the event longer than give up feeling hopeless, angry and disappointed

I still support it.

From the way I see it. In game development class we went over how the difficulty of obstacles increase the further the level requirement becomes.

So if a player is level 1 --> level 30 not much content, gear, quests, items etc to make such an enormous effort compare to leve 1 --> level 99.

But the luck system was good when conditions were made to be either solo, low man and easy fight.

Because you can kill mobs faster and move on to something else and in instant cases solo or only depend on 1-2 other people such as events like Abyssea its easier to handle. Because its low man event.

The problem based on luck became difficult during VW. You needed procs, the right jobs.
However the way I see VW implementation is like kill 1 boss and then a list of say 100 items drops at once then gets divided across each player.

So if 18 players were partying and each person got 4 items. That would require 72 items to drop after kill then as each person opens a chest, 4 items falls per chest.

Luck in this case would fall under 2 ways. Luck based on kill and luck based on who got the rare upon opening the chest.

Now imagine if the drop system was based on this? That means every time random people switching in and out of parties get lucky and end up getting an item 1/1 or 1/10 etc. that means if you partied a boss 6 hours straight with the same people, one of the people in your group should have gotten it. But because parties randomly switch members, that's why some people got it 1/1.

As if you were hunting a rare all day like BLM scroll and the minute you left someone else got it 1/1.

However in the case of WR, imagine if 150 players fighting Hurkan. Then upon kill, if 150 items dropped at once.

Server can handle it.

150 players getting 4 items each would mean 600 items would have to drop from boss upon kill.

BAM SERVER CRASH!

Unlike VW, Wildskeeper Rieves does not give treasure box. But how I see Treasure box implemented is hiding behind the scenes is loot loading a certain instance that the server can handle while slowly adding increments to fill the rest. So if at 50 items out of 500, server can handle, it is automatically set to instantly drop 50 and then add 25, 25, 25 to prevent crash.

Kind of like 250 people TP skill at the same exact time.

The more people added on to the equations, the more items are required, the more resources are consumed.

VW allow items to slowly distribute among players at the moment each person opened treasure box so there is control.

But I'm only guessing this is how the system works and why you get crap loots, recycled items and no drops in WR.

Which is why I think point system would work. That way players at random times can stop by NPC and purchase item instead.

Evidence can be seen of this theory through macro swapping.

Well in the case of the server crashing thing, an easy solution would be to give people items upon leaving the KI using its entrance ???s instead of instant drops when it dies. This would also prevent people from losing items as easily due to a filled inventory because everyone would have to stop and go to leave first, which gives a nice amount of time to check.

I don't see the point there are very few responses to ALL these posts. It's discouraging to go to FFXI Forums and Mr. Camate is really busy over there. Just thought I would pop in and bitch. I just really don't see the point. So much promised and like a fart poof it's forgotten.

Why not just give a KI reward from Wildskeeper Reives that can be exchanged for items not unlike how Astrariums work in Nyzul Isle II. Every Wildskeeper Reive kill gives a piece of a KI. Example below:


When you defeat Yumcax you can get 1 item from his drops. In addition you get 1(one) Segment of Ligneous Soul. You need 5 fragments of Yggdrasil's Soul to exchange to an NPC for any one of Yumcax's drops. This again would be similar to how drops work in Nyzul Isle II. You can get a direct drop and also Astrarium Segements that when collected can be traded for the same items.