More Magic

So I am not sure if people already asked this but, well, here goes. Banish IV, Banishga III how come we still do not have these? XD I mean obviously its not because divine magic is overpowered, and these spells use to be on the test server for us to play around with. I am just curious is there any plan to add these spells? (I could list many more spells server jobs have been waiting on for a very long time)

Also, it seems as though monsters are getting many more ways to put uncureable debuffs on us (one of the new delve bosses can put weakness on us without even KOing anyone and he isn't even the first) Is there any plan to add some new ailment cures? I am sure every job would be happy if WHM (and maybe SCH?) got a way to cure weakness, amnesia, etc.

Any reply, even "Sorry no plans to do that" would be greatful. XD

Curing weakness would be bad as it would create situations where players would stop using strategies and tactics and would just die->get raised->get weakness removed. It would create a scenario where there's no penalty or fear of getting KO'd and DDs could be more careless since their weakness could just be removed. Amnesia is annoying, I'd rather it just be capped at 30second duration or something than let it last longer and just be removable. I think right now WHM's healing/support is very, very effective. As for Damage, they could use another tier of Banish and Banishga IV to make their nukes stronger I suppose, maybe a Repose II, Stoneskin II, Blink II.

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Originally Posted by Ophannus

Amnesia is annoying, I'd rather it just be capped at 30second duration or something than let it last longer and just be removable.

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I completely disagree.
Amnesia is annoying.... but WHM kinda is the job that... y'know... CURES. I would much rather have a amnesina instead of the reliance on... the baramnesira... which doesn't help with anything except lowering the duration... (now, if the barstatuses helped with resisting... like, noticeably helped... they might be worth using.)
It further helps differentiate between the good WHM and the crap one: which one gets rid of ailments? And which one only drops cure5s....

Also: Amnesia aura? stop that!

EDIT: "weaknessna" however... that's just a one way ticket to the death of strategy...

I think having a spell/ability that would remove weakness could work, if it had certain limitations.You could make it usable during Divine Seal only, or it could have a tremendous MP cost. There might be some strategy involved in the decision between unweakening a party member and being able to cure 8000 hp

Obviously the ability to cure weakness would have to be limited (personally I wanted our new SP to be weakness cure 1 hour recast, etc.) However, it would not, as you said, be the death of strategy. There are many mobs out there who can instantly kill a player, many of them have no way to stop it. And some NMs can put weakness on you without even killing you; Almost always dooming you to die from the next hit you take even at full HP. My idea behind it was to add to strategy, Say Tojil gets Lahar off, the DD with current hate gets the cure, he holds it while the rest of the alliance backs off and waits for weakness, thus preventing a wipe, or a full 5min weakness. Things like that, maybe that makes more sense?

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Originally Posted by hollowsgrief

Obviously the ability to cure weakness would have to be limited (personally I wanted our new SP to be weakness cure 1 hour recast, etc.) However, it would not, as you said, be the death of strategy. There are many mobs out there who can instantly kill a player, many of them have no way to stop it. And some NMs can put weakness on you without even killing you; Almost always dooming you to die from the next hit you take even at full HP. My idea behind it was to add to strategy, Say Tojil gets Lahar off, the DD with current hate gets the cure, he holds it while the rest of the alliance backs off and waits for weakness, thus preventing a wipe, or a full 5min weakness. Things like that, maybe that makes more sense?

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See.... that kind of thing..... it's like an amnesia aura to me.
Don't make NM with that kind of bull.
It doesn't add any challenge.
It doesn't make it any harder.
It just turns a fight that could have lasted 40min into one that will last 5hr.
THAT is what it seems to me that you are dissatisfied with.
And I agree. It's utter bull for this kind of thing to be a part of the game... it's a HUGE artificial "difficulty"... much like having a boss have millions of HP... that doesn't make the boss harder.... it just makes the boss take longer to kill.

Amnesia auras and insta-weakened.... need to stop happening. (at least in AoE scenarios)
Now, if the insta-weakened lasted.... say... 1min... or even was something like 30s. I wouldn't care. That's not that big of a deal... but when it's "real" weakness being slapped on ppl... >:[
If they wanted a boss to severely reduce your hp/mp and increase your recast timers... use a really potent curse and slow.
Make it unresistible.
Make it a challenge.... don't just make it artificially "hard".... because that's never hard. It's always just a waste of time.

Having a weaknessna will unbalance the rest of the game.
Having anmesiana won't.

You could totally have a weaknessna that doesn't unbalance the game...

4 examples:

Weaknessna: castable only on yourself, WHM 99. Recast: 5 mins (which would turn into 10 since you cast while weak), cost: 300 MP (or however much MP you have max while weak). Not able to be AoE'd by any means.

Arise II: castable on party member only, WHM 99; Recast: 10 mins; cost 500MP: Raise with full HP without weakness. No reraise status, unlike Arise.

Weaknessna II: Cost: 700 MP, only castable under the effect of Divine Seal: Party member only: removes weakness, no HP gain. Not able to be AoE'd by any means.

Sacrifice II: Cost: 50 MP, castable on party member only: Transfers weakness to yourself.

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Originally Posted by Bamph

Weaknessna: castable only on yourself, WHM 99. Recast: 5 mins (which would turn into 10 since you cast while weak), cost: 300 MP (or however much MP you have max while weak). Not able to be AoE'd by any means.

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It needs to be a JA, simply because the current recast cap is 255 sec. (Ask a SCH to do Manifestation on Klimaform, without any fast cast. It will show 4:15.) Also, Accession cannot work on anything that SCH do not innately get and/or spells that aren't available as SJ, so it won't be Accession-able. The fact is, you'd have to make Divine Veil not applicable.

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Arise II: castable on party member only, WHM 99; Recast: 10 mins; cost 500MP: Raise with full HP without weakness. No reraise status, unlike Arise.

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Recast issue: see above. (Also, Arise recast is 2min/300MP and already reduces weakness to 3min.)

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Weaknessna II: Cost: 700 MP, only castable under the effect of Divine Seal: Party member only: removes weakness, no HP gain. Not able to be AoE'd by any means.

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700MP is probably a bit on the high side. Also, I would think that this needs to be not a -na spell in name (and effect), because DS already AoEs -na spells.

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Sacrifice II: Cost: 50 MP, castable on party member only: Transfers weakness to yourself.

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I'd only support this if (1) there's a chance for it to fail (like Cursna on Doom) depending on skill/other factor, (2) Cannot be cast if the WHM is Weakened, (3) either has a decent recast and/or requiring Afflactus Solace (and removes it when Weakness is successfully transferred).

I didn't know there was a cap on recast timers... You learn something new every day... Too bad there's no possible way to make that timer go higher... (unless the devs do something about it). I also forgot to mention that the spells shouldn't be able to make use of abilities that lower the cost or recast time.

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Originally Posted by Sofrid

It needs to be a JA, simply because the current recast cap is 255 sec. (Ask a SCH to do Manifestation on Klimaform, without any fast cast. It will show 4:15.) Also, Accession cannot work on anything that SCH do not innately get and/or spells that aren't available as SJ, so it won't be Accession-able. The fact is, you'd have to make Divine Veil not applicable.

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Originally Posted by Sofrid

Recast issue: see above. (Also, Arise recast is 2min/300MP and already reduces weakness to 3min.)

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Right, but this would be completely different as there would be no weakness when you get up.

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Originally Posted by Sofrid

700MP is probably a bit on the high side. Also, I would think that this needs to be not a -na spell in name (and effect), because DS already AoEs -na spells.

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All the spells are on the high side (minus sacrifice II, but that would have the inherent cost of losing the MP you had when you get weakened ~800 probably). This would be done for balance so that the WHM would have the option of unweaknessing people or keeping others cured (preventing them from willy-nilly Arise II-ing one person while the party still needs healing). I thought I was being on the conservative side of things with my MP cost.

Ok, so the spell needs another name... How about "Unweak," or "Strengthen," or "Invigorate." OH!! Choose Invigorate. I like it! Invigorate and Invigorate II.

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Originally Posted by Sofrid

I'd only support this if (1) there's a chance for it to fail (like Cursna on Doom) depending on skill/other factor, (2) Cannot be cast if the WHM is Weakened, (3) either has a decent recast and/or requiring Afflactus Solace (and removes it when Weakness is successfully transferred).

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I never thought that you could use sacrifice in such a manner... if you were poisoned, and sacrificed to pull the poison away from someone else, I figured it would fail because you were already poisoned. (I looked it up on wiki now that you said it... you can :S. WTF... that's not much of a sacrifice then). If the WHM was weakened and tried to pull away another person's weakness, I'd be all for that WHM dying (and removing reraise). In fact, I'd be OK with it being guaranteed to pull away weakness, but have a chance of dying right afterwards.

I didn't think that removing doom had anything to do with skill level, just luck. I've used cursna on whm with little skill (I know... BAD WHM!), and my wife used it on hers with capped skill, and we both had about the same success rate. And I always thought that cursna just removed curse if you were cursed, no questions asked, unless it was a different curse (like the difference between silence and mute). (I misread you... I thought you said cursna OR doom, however, I struck it out because I like it as a stepping point for this next spell idea). On a similar note, we need a doomna, or a "insert -na spell here" II that removes the higher tiers. Maybe an Erase II that can erase doom or amnesia.

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Originally Posted by FaeQueenCory

See.... that kind of thing..... it's like an amnesia aura to me.
Don't make NM with that kind of bull.
It doesn't add any challenge.
It doesn't make it any harder.
It just turns a fight that could have lasted 40min into one that will last 5hr.
THAT is what it seems to me that you are dissatisfied with.
And I agree. It's utter bull for this kind of thing to be a part of the game... it's a HUGE artificial "difficulty"... much like having a boss have millions of HP... that doesn't make the boss harder.... it just makes the boss take longer to kill.

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I would be in favor of a status ailment that only takes away the JAs (and not WS). You will still get your damage in, and it's not as debilitating to most players (excluding, say, SMN, DNC, COR, SAM and RUN).

Or even a specific fight that gives you all your JA but not WS. (Again, debilitating for SAM and probably DNC thought not as much for DNC).

The new gear heightening damage means that the HP value of mobs must increase exponentially as well. It's unfortunate, but it must be done.

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Originally Posted by Bamph

All the spells are on the high side (minus sacrifice II, but that would have the inherent cost of losing the MP you had when you get weakened ~800 probably). This would be done for balance so that the WHM would have the option of unweaknessing people or keeping others cured (preventing them from willy-nilly Arise II-ing one person while the party still needs healing). I thought I was being on the conservative side of things with my MP cost.

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You could always give WHM the Reviviscence TP move, tied to a weapon or something that's demanding. (It's the one that Ferreous Coffin uses in Campaign Battle that unweakens a player.) That, or make Arise II tied to a JA and Penury not applicable. (Remember Penury cuts the casting MP of white magic by 50%.)

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I never thought that you could use sacrifice in such a manner... if you were poisoned, and sacrificed to pull the poison away from someone else, I figured it would fail because you were already poisoned. (I looked it up on wiki now that you said it... you can :S. WTF... that's not much of a sacrifice then). If the WHM was weakened and tried to pull away another person's weakness, I'd be all for that WHM dying (and removing reraise). In fact, I'd be OK with it being guaranteed to pull away weakness, but have a chance of dying right afterwards.

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WHM dying and removing Reraise is so detrimental that I would think really hard before using it, especially when the penalty to WHM would be far higher. There's a reason why Reraise (I/II/III) had their level obtained from 33/60/75 lowered to the same level as Raise (I/II/III).

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I didn't think that removing doom had anything to do with skill level, just luck. I've used cursna on whm with little skill (I know... BAD WHM!), and my wife used it on hers with capped skill, and we both had about the same success rate. And I always thought that cursna just removed curse if you were cursed, no questions asked, unless it was a different curse (like the difference between silence and mute). (I misread you... I thought you said cursna OR doom, however, I struck it out because I like it as a stepping point for this next spell idea). On a similar note, we need a doomna, or a "insert -na spell here" II that removes the higher tiers. Maybe an Erase II that can erase doom or amnesia.

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I think Doom shouldn't be included, as Doom already covered under Cursna. I don't know about amnesia, however.

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Originally Posted by Sofrid

I would be in favor of a status ailment that only takes away the JAs (and not WS). You will still get your damage in, and it's not as debilitating to most players (excluding, say, SMN, DNC, COR, SAM and RUN).

Or even a specific fight that gives you all your JA but not WS. (Again, debilitating for SAM and probably DNC thought not as much for DNC).

The new gear heightening damage means that the HP value of mobs must increase exponentially as well. It's unfortunate, but it must be done.

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LoL Nonono, I mean that you don't make a boss HARDER by giving them more HP. That doesn't make them actually more difficult, it just makes them take longer to kill. (the weapons deal more dmg now, so bosses need more hp is actually the reverse of the actual process: bosses got more HP, implemented new weapons to make re-fighting them faster.)

And it's not so much the crippling that I am lamenting... it's the lack of whm's ability to... whm it.
If there was an amnesina, I wouldn't care about having NMs drop that on ppl.
Just like how no one cares when they get petrified, or super-paralyzed, or silenced or what have you.
Because, save for when these effects are auras, a whm can remove these ailments.
They can't do so with amnesia.
The most you can hope for with that is a lower duration cause of baramnesira. And that's just awful.

WHM can get rid of doom. DOOM. (I know it's only a chance and only really "reliable" with "enhance cursna" gear.... I don't even think we know for certain if that gear stacks.....) But WHM can't get rid of amnesia? That's just dumb.

Making multiple types of amnesias, like you suggest, could be great and be handled much like the different types of plague and curses are handled....
But WHM really should have the -na for them. Even if it's as unreliable as a cursna for doom.... that's 100000000000000000x better than relying on bar-status spells. (or if they made the bar-ailments add an actual resist chance instead of just lessening the duration... I might think more highly of them.)

EDIT:

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Originally Posted by Sofrid

I think Doom shouldn't be included, as Doom already covered under Cursna. I don't know about amnesia, however.

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As I pointed out (before seeing this LoL) WHM can already deal with all current ailments.... except amnesia.
It's the ONLY ailment whm just can not cure.
And considering that is the ONLY job of a whm in a party.... that's really messed up.

WHM could use a spell to remove weakness. No, not 'I died and raised up' weakness, I mean this bullshit status ailment weakness which half of the new breed NMs that have come out since Jeuno II VW have had. Weakness caused by a special attack from an enemy should be possible to remove. I would say the opposite of death weakness, that should not be possible to remove. One is a clear penalty for having died, the other is a cheap tactic used by the Devs to create a more challenging enemy by making it use one of the most penalizing ailments in any FF game as an Area of Effect type move.

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Originally Posted by Demon6324236

WHM could use a spell to remove weakness. No, not 'I died and raised up' weakness, I mean this bullshit status ailment weakness which half of the new breed NMs that have come out since Jeuno II VW have had. Weakness caused by a special attack from an enemy should be possible to remove. I would say the opposite of death weakness, that should not be possible to remove. One is a clear penalty for having died, the other is a cheap tactic used by the Devs to create a more challenging enemy by making it use one of the most penalizing ailments in any FF game as an Area of Effect type move.

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This would be more than acceptable..... if said form of weakness is an actual different ailment.
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Which I don't think it is. :(
It'd be much better to just not do this sort of BS and actually develop real challenges... instead of artificial ones like BAM-weakend and amnesia auras.

I believe they used Weakness because its heavy penalty on HP/MP while it also gives 100% Slow, so an enemy can use it and then stack its normal debuffs on top of those, allowing for a ton of Slow and a ton of HP/MP Down. I cant say for sure that it is another ailment, its probably the exact same, but I would hope they could allow it to work with different rules depending on how its causes, kinda like Reraise. Some forms of Reraise wear off due to certain events like entering a Battlefield, while others do not, I assume they are both the same thing, but their causes change their abilities to be removed & such. If the same kind of thing could be done with Weakness, it should be able to be removed with a spell, but if not, then SE simply needs to be smarter with their implementation of ailments.

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Originally Posted by Demon6324236

I believe they used Weakness because its heavy penalty on HP/MP while it also gives 100% Slow, so an enemy can use it and then stack its normal debuffs on top of those, allowing for a ton of Slow and a ton of HP/MP Down. I cant say for sure that it is another ailment, its probably the exact same, but I would hope they could allow it to work with different rules depending on how its causes, kinda like Reraise. Some forms of Reraise wear off due to certain events like entering a Battlefield, while others do not, I assume they are both the same thing, but their causes change their abilities to be removed & such. If the same kind of thing could be done with Weakness, it should be able to be removed with a spell, but if not, then SE simply needs to be smarter with their implementation of ailments.

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Just like how curse has a movement speed down that stacks with gravity? (On top of the MaxHP/MaxMP reduction).

In a way yes. Curse is Max HP down fused with Gravity the same way Weakness is Max HP down, Max MP down, and Slow all fused together. I assume in many cases they made it this way so that they could stack multiple ailments against us. For instance, if a NM can inflict Weakness, Curse, and Max HP Down on a player, that player's HP would drop very, very low. However, if each of the 3 attacks that cause those were only to inflict Max HP Down, either 1 would have to be much stronger than the others, or they would not allow them to stack and thus the player would be unaffected by the additional ones. The thing about weakness is that unlike Curse, weakness has no way to remove it, and unless they add a way to remove weakness caused by mobs, it will continue to be nothing more than another cheap attack tactic they give NMs, just like stripping off all of our gear, short count AoE doom abilities, and so on. Things like that are nothing more than annoyances in this game and they give us no real way to combat it besides dying, raising, and throwing ourselves at it again, or using moves that make us invincible in some way.