Follow-up: Level 99 Relic, Mythic, Empyrean, and Walk of Echoes Weapons

Greetings everyone,

Thanks for all of your patience while the development team discussed all the feedback in this thread. Below is a very lengthy post from Producer Akihiko Matsui as a follow-up to the plans for relic, mythic, and empyrean weapons.

---
Matsui here.

Thank you all so much for the feedback on relic, mythic, empyrean, and Walk of Echoes weapons. It has helped out tremendously.

After reading over all of your feedback, instead of continuing the growth of these weapons by unlocking the weapon skills that are tied to each of the weapons, I feel it would be better to perform a revamp on RME weapons. (Regarding Walk of Echoes weapons, I will talk about this below, but they will be involved with unlocking the specialized weapon skills.)

I've been reworking a lot, and writing it all up, but it seems the post turned out rather lengthy, so once you have been able to read through it all and digest it we'd love to hear your feedback.

Content Level
We've received a lot of questions about the stats on Adoulin equipment, and I'd like to once again explain about growth and content levels in Seekers of Adoulin as this is a critical aspect in order to receive feedback on the revamps for RME weapons.

The content in Adoulin has been designed with a repeating play-cycle where you challenge content that you are able to at that moment in time, gather equipment, become stronger, and then take on higher tier content which will allow you to gather even stronger equipment.

It's through the procurement of equipment that will allow players to grow and level up.

We've established content levels for Adoulin content as a means to objectively display difficulty benchmarks. The below is a concrete illustration of these content levels.

<table width="600" border="0"> <tr> <td width="11%" align="center">20</td> <td width="1%" style="border-style:none;"></td> <td width="20%" align="center">Delve (Boss monsters)</td> <td width="1%" style="border-style:none;"></td> <td width="20%" style="border-style:none;"></td> </tr> <tr> <td align="center">19</td> <td style="border-style:none;"></td> <td style="border-style:none;"></td> <td style="border-style:none;"></td> <td style="border-style:none;"></td> </tr> <tr> <td align="center">18</td> <td style="border-style:none;"></td> <td style="border-style:none;"></td> <td style="border-style:none;"></td> <td style="border-style:none;"></td> </tr> <tr> <td align="center">17</td> <td style="border-style:none;"></td> <td style="border-style:none;"></td> <td style="border-style:none;"></td> <td align="center">New Additions to Wildskeeper Reives</td> </tr> <tr> <td align="center">16</td> <td style="border-style:none;"></td> <td style="border-style:none;"></td> <td style="border-style:none;"></td> <td style="border-style:none;"></td> </tr> <tr> <td align="center">15</td> <td style="border-style:none;"></td> <td style="border-style:none;"></td> <td style="border-style:none;"></td> <td style="border-style:none;"></td> </tr> <tr> <td align="center">14</td> <td style="border-style:none;"></td> <td align="center">Delve (NM group 2)</td> <td style="border-style:none;"></td> <td style="border-style:none;"></td> </tr> <tr> <td align="center">13</td> <td style="border-style:none;"></td> <td style="border-style:none;"></td> <td style="border-style:none;"></td> <td align="center">New additions to Skirmish</td> </tr> <tr> <td align="center">12</td> <td style="border-style:none;"></td> <td style="border-style:none;"></td> <td style="border-style:none;"></td> <td style="border-style:none;"></td> </tr> <tr> <td align="center">11</td> <td style="border-style:none;"></td> <td align="center">Delve (NM group 1)</td> <td style="border-style:none;"></td> <td style="border-style:none;"></td> </tr> <tr> <td align="center">10</td> <td style="border-style:none;"></td> <td style="border-style:none;"></td> <td style="border-style:none;"></td> <td style="border-style:none;"></td> </tr> <tr> <td align="center">9</td> <td style="border-style:none;"></td> <td style="border-style:none;"></td> <td style="border-style:none;"></td> <td rowspan="4" align="center">New additions to <br> Colonization/Lair Reives</td> </tr> <tr> <td align="center">8</td> <td style="border-style:none;"></td> <td style="border-style:none;"></td> <td style="border-style:none;"></td> </tr> <tr> <td align="center">7</td> <td style="border-style:none;"></td> <td align="center">Wildskeeper Reives</td> <td style="border-style:none;"></td> </tr> <tr> <td align="center">6</td> <td style="border-style:none;"></td> <td align="center">Skirmish</td> <td style="border-style:none;"></td> </tr> <tr> <td align="center">5</td> <td style="border-style:none;"></td> <td rowspan="5" align="center">Colonization/Lair Reives</td> <td style="border-style:none;"></td> <td style="border-style:none;"></td> </tr> <tr> <td align="center">4</td> <td style="border-style:none;"></td> <td style="border-style:none;"></td> <td style="border-style:none;"></td> </tr> <tr> <td align="center">3</td> <td style="border-style:none;"></td> <td style="border-style:none;"></td> <td style="border-style:none;"></td> </tr> <tr> <td align="center">2</td> <td style="border-style:none;"></td> <td style="border-style:none;"></td> <td style="border-style:none;"></td> </tr> <tr> <td align="center">1</td> <td style="border-style:none;"></td> <td style="border-style:none;"></td> <td style="border-style:none;"></td> </tr> <tr> <td align="center" style="border-style:none;">Content Level</td> <td style="border-style:none;"></td> <td align="center" style="border-style:none;">Up to April 2013</td> <td style="border-style:none;"></td> <td align="center" style="border-style:none;">Next version update (currently adjusting)</td> </tr></table>

Equipment strength is dependent on the level of the content you need to challenge in order to obtain the equipment, not the level in which it can be equipped. With the gear that is released in Adoulin from here on out, they can be equipped at level 99; however, instead of considering these to be level 99 pieces of equipment, it would be better for you to think of their level in terms of the content level (for example, level 110 or level 120).

The strength of the monsters that will be introduced are matched to that of the content level, but since there is somewhat of a solidified hierarchy between content, it's been setup so that the strength can be felt with even one level difference in content level. Oppositely, the parameters on Adoulin equipment have been calculated and set in order to deal with these monsters.

Fundamentally we will be making it so that the content level for content to come in the future continues to become higher, but there may be cases where we fill in areas where there is a large jump in content level as needed.

Also, in order to make it so there are various types of content sprawled across a single content level, we are supplementing it with content variations. We've also designed plans to enable resting periods where we will expand laterally instead of vertically, because players may get burnt out going full steam ahead.

In the next version update we will be adding content focusing on filling in the gaps as well as supplementing with content variation.

In the above chart, please look at the “Next version update (currently adjusting)” column. For content levels 6-9 (Skirmish/Wildskeeper Reives), we will be adding equipment appropriate for these content levels that can be exchanged for Bayld along with new Colonization and Lair Reives. Additionally, we will be filling in content for levels 13 and 17.

For those players who are already able to take on Skirmish, Wildskeeper Reives, and Delve at this point in time, it will not be absolutely necessary to challenge this content, but we will be making the above adjustments in case you want to increase your success rate, or are feeling that the current situation is still a bit tough.

Also, as a plan to resolve the issue where Skirmish is not really connecting the content as was planned, we will be undergoing maintenance at the end of this week and making it so statue segments can be obtained from Colonization and Lair Reives at a set rate. (These adjustments are separate from the rules associated with obtaining these items via Coalition Assignments, HELM, and Soul Pyres.)

By performing these adjustments we envision the below flow:

1. Challenge Colonization and Lair Reives
2. Obtain statue segments by participating in these reives
3. Challenge Skirmish with the parts you have obtained

Weapon Revamps
Sorry, I got off track for a bit, but now I'd like to return to the topic at hand.

To start off, I still need to discuss the implementation period with the rest of the development team, so it will be a bit difficult to address this immediately in the next version update, and we cannot make any promises as to when this will take place.

In regards to the kind of stats that will be added when we revamp these weapons, fundamentally the afterglow and aftermath effects as well as the other special stats will carry over and we'll be setting damage values, attack, and accuracy stats to coincide with the content level.

While the stats will be quite strong, we do not plan on making it possible to continuously enhance them in short intervals like the original method of enhancing via Trial of the Magians.

However, RME weapons have been considered the ultimate weapons up until this point in time, but I feel that this needs to change a bit.

I would like to make a shift so that instead of having it so that other weapons aren't necessary if you have RME weapons, you have a choice. If you are happy with RME, then you can use RME, and for those who want other weapons you can use other weapons.

With that said, there may be players who are worried if these weapons will eventually become unusable, but to give an example we had the lead make some calculations for the stats needed to combat the Delve boss monsters, and the below is what the RME swords would look like:

Excalibur

Quote:

---

DMG: 73 Delay: 233 Attack+40 "Knights of Round" Additional effect: Damage varies with HP

---

↓

Quote:

---

DMG: 121 Delay: 233 Attack+60 Accuracy+20 "Knights of Round" Additional effect: Damage varies with HP

---

Burtgang

Quote:

---

DMG: 73 Delay: 264 Enmity+18 Physical damage taken -18% Reduces Enmity decrease when taking damage. "Atonement" Aftermath: Increases Acc./Atk./Occ. Attacks twice or thrice

---

↓

Quote:

---

DMG: 131 Delay: 264 Attack+20 Accuracy+20 Enmity+18 Physical damage taken -18% Reduces Enmity decrease when taking damage. "Atonement" Aftermath: Increases Acc./Atk./Occ. Attacks twice or thrice

---

Almace

Quote:

---

DMG: 70 Delay: 224 DEX+20 "Chant du Cygne" Aftermath: Occ. deals double damage

---

↓

Quote:

---

DMG: 114 Delay: 224 Attack+20 Accuracy+20 DEX+20 "Chant du Cygne" Aftermath: Occ. deals double damage

---

In regards to Walk of Echoes weapons, these were implemented with the concept of allowing players to use the specialized empyrean weapon skills, so instead of revamping them we felt it more appropriate to have them serve to unlock the weapons skills (planning to have restrictions based on jobs and level). Also, we are looking into adjustments for the method to create Walk of Echoes weapons.


In conclusion…
Apologies that this post is so long, but based on all of the above we would love to hear your feedback on the revamps to level 99 RME weapons and unlocking weapon skills with Walk of Echoes weapons.

I will be sure to read over each and every comment you all post.

My thoughts and ideas have completely turned around the plans that were originally drawn up, and I had to sit and really discuss the idea with the rest of the development team, including the possibilities of making this happen.

I apologize that this response was late and that I made you all wait.

Thank you all very much.
---

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Camate

Greetings everyone....
---

---

WoW! This all sounds a million times more promising than what was originally discussed and makes far more sense as well.

Props to you sir.

So far, so good. Continue with this plan!

I will go along with this as something promising. Since this is a just a stepping stone and probably 4-5 months out, I would like to see what you have planned.

This sounds really good Matsui..... keep it up brother man!

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Camate

While the stats will be quite strong, we do not plan on making it possible to continuously enhance them in short intervals like the original method of enhancing via Trial of the Magians.

However, RME weapons have been considered the ultimate weapons up until this point in time, but I feel that this needs to change a bit.

I would like to make a shift so that instead of having it so that other weapons aren't necessary if you have RME weapons, you have a choice. If you are happy with RME, than you can use RME, and for those who want other weapons you can use other weapons.

---

I would like some clarification on the bolded and underlined phrases:

* Bold - So there will not be small incremental jumps in performance. That's okay. Will there be regular jumps in performance, though, or will RMEs be outdated in the future?

* Underlined - The type of players that make RMEs aren't going to be happy unless they're using one of the best weapons for their job. Are you going to keep RMEs among the best weapons for the respective jobs?


I personally do not mind if there are competitive alternatives to my RMEs from Delve/etc., but I would like to know that the effort I invested in making them was not wasted. I would like to always be able to use Terpsichore, for instance. Is this going to be the case?

This sounds like what should actually be happening. Thank you Camate and Matsui-san

From what I'm seeing here, these weapons still don't warrant the effort that we put into them over the years, May I instead propose this:

2handed model -

lv75 Relic/Mythic: +10 dmg
lv80 relic/mythic: +15 dmg
Lv85 R/M/E: +15 dmg
lv90 R/M/E: +15 dmg +5 acc/att
lv95 R/M/E: +15 dmg +5 acc/att
lv99 R/M/E: +20 dmg +10 acc/att

(+90 dmg +20 acc/att using Ukonosvra 99 as example, would be 246 dmg 20 acc 20 att 20 str occ deals double dmg putting it just above the delve weaponry in sheer damage power)

1handed model -

lv75 Relic/Mythic: +5 dmg
lv80 relic/mythic: +5 dmg
Lv85 R/M/E: +10 dmg
lv90 R/M/E: +10 dmg +5 acc/att
lv95 R/M/E: +10 dmg +5 acc/att
lv99 R/M/E: +15 dmg +10 acc/att

(+55 dmg +20 acc/att total which is close to the proposed model, using your almace as an example, would be 125 dmg 20 acc 20 att and 20 dex occasionally deals double dmg putting it much closer to any other sword recently released)


This puts them on par with the far more easily obtainable weapons from delve, and is also reasonably easy to code, you'd just need to change base dmg in the calculations etc... I think my proposed model is not brokenly overpowered, or going to destroy the game at all, but instead revive the weaponry we've worked so hard to obtain over the years, and providing the info in a format like this makes it easy for people to understand what boosts to expect level by level.

So RME will be good but not "ultimate" anymore. Just a good alternative.
Not uber, not shit.
And Empy WS unlocked via WoE, making WoE weapons interesting, finally.

What can I say? I'm happy. Thanks Matsui :)

well that's the awesomest thing you guys have said as of late (I did read it a little earlier on the JP forums >.>) anyway, I would hope that you are sticking to your word that this damage increase will be for lvl 99 R/E/Ms only, the reason why I say this is because I agree with it, wa wa you can farm a zone boss 25~50 times, I don't think that warrants auto 99 stats, now paying for plates, that might, it shows more dedication, I've already seen in other forums people saying that they want the upgrades included in the lvl 85~95 weapons as well, I disagree with that, simply because it leads back to the "pick which one you really want to upgrade". as for the "Option" I think that's perfect, especially since that leaves us with an additional R/E/M weapon, so I guess will soon spell out Dream? lol all we need is an A weapon... sorry off topic, anyway looking at the stats on the Delve weapons it does seem plausable if the other weapons were boosted, it could definetly JOIN the ranks of a R/E/M, not render them useless (which is what this new plan looks like it is going to do); which in that case, I think that Relics still are just great for the attack, mess with various AMs, Mythics are still going to be very job specific (although I would hope that you still are going to put the various mage buffs into those as well, as they will be difficult to implement with the new weapons having x5 the stats), of course I'd hope that Empys still are being built for their AM and the Double damage, and now these new Delve weapons are probably just going to be used for the pure stats on them. So now we have D/R/E/M weapons. I'm intrigued.

Thank you so much for taking into account the original direction this development course has taken for so many years... I refer to the R/E/M weapons and their vision as being the "ultimate weapons" for their class.:p

I understand based on the above that you have decided to change this view with the introduction of Delve weapons--I also understand that, based on your comment that the original plans have been changed, that this was not initially considered or effectively brought to the table.:confused:

I would like to suggest that in the future, should you decide on a course for this late-stage game, 11 year old MMO, that you do not do so, so haphazardly. I have been an on-going subscriber since 2003 and my subscription has never lapsed. I also own only one lvl 99 empyrean which I feel, as a casual player--not entirely hardcore for a few years now--I have seriously invested much of my time, energy, and gil into to create. The notion that there are those who have done even more based on the original vision regarding R/E/M weapons and the fact that this would be tossed aside so haphazardly, is a little disturbing.:(

I do acknowledge and hope, based on your change of plans, that you are more careful as it relates to "significant" game playing adjustments in the near and far off future--so that you take into account, not only from a game play perspective, but also from the perspective of an established "tradition" the development team (pre-2009 development team) themselves created--not to undo it all because of "some vision"--to the degree that it eclipses what an entire player base has been accustomed too.

Again, I believe you are on the right track;) and look forward to continuing my subscription, as well as trying the new content in greater depth, now that I realize all of my efforts (concerning my R/E/M weapon) has not been without merit.:cool:

;) :) :D :p :o

The proposal sounds great. I'm looking forward to playing now, I feel like I'm building towards something again.

Camate, can you perhaps ask the Dev team if they'd consider allowing post-ToAU jobs to use Relics since they are no longer the "Ultimate" weapons? I think their reasons for not allowing newer jobs to use them was that they'd be too powerful.

so for weapons like Laevateinn, Murgleis and Tupsimati, will these be receiving just the attack and accuracy+ as well, or will you provide them useful stats like "all element affinity DMG/ACC+5/6" or something that isn't just "more magic atk. bonus". judging from the delve and skirmish armor, it seems like melee potency is getting a significantly larger increase than magic potency (barring avatars)

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Phafi

so for weapons like Laevateinn, Murgleis and Tupsimati, will these be receiving just the attack and accuracy+ as well, or will you provide them useful stats like "all element affinity DMG/ACC+5/6" or something that isn't just "more magic atk. bonus". judging from the delve and skirmish armor, it seems like melee potency is getting a significantly larger increase than magic potency (barring avatars)

---

I can only surmise based on the post that the team would need to look at each type (R/E/M) of weapon individually and determine the most effective adjustment necessary for that job. So your observations are spot on; as I am also confident that they will ensure they address those areas of the job (via the weapon) that makes the most sense.

Will newer jobs be able to utilize these weapons? ToAU and forward can't use relic and RUN and GEO aren't able to equip empyreans. I'd like to see RUN utilize Ragnarok :D

Hello, and thank you Dev team. This post really does make me very happy and enough to register on the forums and make my first post to you guys. I think that most everything that was proposed is a good if not great idea but there are some things I would like you guys to consider.
1. If You are going to use the Coin Weapons to unlock Empyrean Weapon Skills (not a bad idea) consider making them unlockable if you did the Empyrean path as well. Possibly Coin Weapons unlocking Weaponskill at 99 but Empyrean Unlocking weaponskill at 90.
2. With Mythic and Empyrean Weapon Skills unlockable can we get a quest to unlock Relic weapon skills as well. Possibly a WeaponSkill point trial using the Stage 1 Relic with no upgrades. (this does make the "In Dynamis:" unlock on stage 4 somewhat useless though.
Thank you dev team for your consideration and these updates.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Antanias

Will newer jobs be able to utilize these weapons? ToAU and forward can't use relic and RUN and GEO aren't able to equip empyreans. I'd like to see RUN utilize Ragnarok :D

---

As would I. Or atleast get access to the WoE weapon to get Torcleaver.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Camate

To start off, I still need to discuss the implementation period with the rest of the development team, so it will be a bit difficult to address this immediately in the next version update, and we cannot make any promises as to when this will take place.

---

While it doesn't seem bad, it still means the R/E/Ms users will be stuck with useless weapons for a few months at least.

Also you're planning to make the R/E/Ms as an alternative, well guess what, people who invested their time and money in those weapons made it to be able to use the best possible weapon. If the Delve weapons are better we won't use our R/E/Ms just because we "like them".

Will Emp WSs unlocked via WoE weapons be usable with Mythic AM3? I'm sure your sword stats are just a mock up but if your intention is to have the 3 somewhat closely balanced you have overlooked the powerhouse that would be a Conqueror spamming Ukko's fury with occasionally attacks twice or thrice.

Edit: I think I smashed 2 points into one post so to clarify.

a) Mythics DPS has always taken into account that they have additional utility properties (yes some of them are terrible) and a crazy good AM3.

b) I believe that the strength of the associated WSs were accounted for initially as well. After some magian trials and some merits WSs though, the balance was shifted quite a bit putting some Mythics very far ahead of their counterpart Relic and Emp. If you look at Ryunohige for example, it already has access to the strongest available WS in addition to it's aftermath and currently very competitive base damage. Due to this it absolutely crushes Gungnir and Rhongomiant.

You are looking at creating similar situations across the board if you give mythics the highest damage rating best aftermath and access to the very powerful Emp WSs. I think mythics should probably be a bit ahead of anything else due to the massive effort required compared to the other weapons but I don't think the gap you would be creating is what it should be.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Insaniac

Will Emp WSs unlocked via WoE weapons be usable with Mythic AM3? I'm sure your sword stats are just a mock up but if your intention is to have the 3 somewhat closely balanced you have overlooked the powerhouse that would be a Conqueror spamming Ukko's fury with occasionally attacks twice or thrice.

---

sshshhhshsshshshshhh i already traded in a sturdy axe (which could very quickly change into laev or murgleis if they get affinity+) as a hope to only play paladin about half the time rather than all the time!

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Lotto

While it doesn't seem bad, it still means the R/E/Ms users will be stuck with useless weapons for a few months at least.

Also you're planning to make the R/E/Ms as an alternative, well guess what, people who invested their time and money in those weapons made it to be able to use the best possible weapon. If the Delve weapons are better we won't use our R/E/Ms just because we "like them".

---

it's people like you why we can't have nice things. I'm not trying to completely discredit what you said, but if you think about it I'd hope you didn't think that they were going to release a new expansion with more alternatives, and more content (I. E. Gear/weapons/ect.). I'm excited now we have options, that's all i got out of his post is that they're going to give us "options" when it comes to delve weapons or we still wanna use the items we've spent years on. that some people will continue to spend years on.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Insaniac

Will Emp WSs unlocked via WoE weapons be usable with Mythic AM3? I'm sure your sword stats are just a mock up but if your intention is to have the 3 somewhat closely balanced you have overlooked the powerhouse that would be a Conqueror spamming Ukko's fury with occasionally attacks twice or thrice.

---

I'm sure it'll be just like the Mythic weaponskills... unlock-able but useless, now they might have a couple that are good, but if you remember correctly Mandalic Stab Thfs EVERYWHERE used, and people still unlock just to use Leaden Salute. So I'm sure it's going to be along those same lines :D.

Mr. Matsui needs to keep in mind that a choice between weapons is only a choice if the overall performance between the two weapons is VERY close. If he plans to continually outclass RME in terms of performance he needs to understand that he is effectively eliminating this concept of choice that he is mentioning. Further, if this proposed RME upgrade system is not dynamic to continually adjust with new tiers of Delve content, this is going to continue to be a problem until the servers go down. So, I don't understand how he could imply that this isn't going to need constant changing as the game moves forward. Peoples' feelings are not going to be different in 6 months to a year when 400DMG weapons are out and this all happens again.

I call shit on this. Can you say wasted time. r/m/e were made to be the best and you just obsolete them in one fell swoop then say we will give you a little bite of something better but will let the world eclipse you in your effort to appease the "casual" player. r/m/e were made to be top weapons and should stay that way.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Phafi

sshshhhshsshshshshhh i already traded in a sturdy axe (which could very quickly change into laev or murgleis if they get affinity+) as a hope to only play paladin about half the time rather than all the time!

---

I'M SORRRYYYY!!!!!!!

Yay to Ragnarok War coming back lol

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Scooter

I call shit on this. Can you say wasted time. r/m/e were made to be the best and you just obsolete them in one fell swoop then say we will give you a little bite of something better but will let the world eclipse you in your effort to appease the "casual" player. r/m/e were made to be top weapons and should stay that way.

---

did you not see the stats on the new swords, they're trying to throw us what we want, but again like I said before they want new good content, which is why they've introduced the new weapons. The main reason why they had to release stronger stuff was because this is the first actual expansion pack (even ad-on) since the raise to lvl 99, meaning there was NO difficult content prior to SoA, which is great for old players since we erred on the side of Harder = funner, I just think that things have gotten too easy (remember to build a relic you used to have to be part of a giant dyna ls, and every entrance, you HAD to pay to enter and most the time you just wanted equipment anyway)

Why would I spend 300million gil on a corvette, when i can get a camaro for 30k plasm?


This seems like an acceptable change to me even though i still think they're back asswards on that point.

Perhaps since RME will no longer be the best, we can see some currency requirement reductions. Papa needs a new Conqueror.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Areayea

did you not see the stats on the new swords, they're trying to throw us what we want, but again like I said before they want new good content, which is why they've introduced the new weapons. The main reason why they had to release stronger stuff was because this is the first actual expansion pack (even ad-on) since the raise to lvl 99, meaning there was NO difficult content prior to SoA, which is great for old players since we erred on the side of Harder = funner, I just think that things have gotten too easy (remember to build a relic you used to have to be part of a giant dyna ls, and every entrance, you HAD to pay to enter and most the time you just wanted equipment anyway)

---

Personally, I think they need to do as he is proposing asap, THEN once SoA's content is fully released, relics should be put back on top again. Basically, let Relics temporarily take a backseat through SoA, then once SoA is completely implemented Relics get another boost. This would let new gear have it's time.

Buramenk'ah 99 Sword DMG:130 Delay:240 STR+13 Accuracy+25 Attack+25 "Double Attack"+3% RDM / PLD / BLU

that's the strongest new sword... now just for funs sake we're gonna compare that to the hardest of the R/M/Es to get (keep in mind that no matter what you get Aftermath when you have the R/E/M so that's another booster) the mythic, the stats are

DMG: 131 Delay: 264 Attack+20 Accuracy+20 Enmity+18 Physical damage taken -18% Reduces Enmity decrease when taking damage. "Atonement" Aftermath: Increases Acc./Atk./Occ. Attacks twice or thrice

Burtgang now officially out does that sword, so... I think that they're just awkwardly now going to make them all on par with eachother... again so now we have D/R/E/M weapons

even if you compare the easiest (let's be honest 1500 HMPs isn't THAT hard to get...) the almace, it's stats are:
DMG: 114 Delay: 224 Attack+20 Accuracy+20 DEX+20 "Chant du Cygne" Aftermath: Occ. deals double damage

looking at that you realize it's a little less delay (which is better anyway for 1 handed weapons) and it still has it's aftermath on it's ws plus a stat booster, where as the sword just improves the fSTR values, which the attack does anyway on the new Almace.

So just by looking at these, they're grinding their teeth while they say now the relics/empys/mythics are ON PAR with the new Delve weapons

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Kojo

Personally, I think they need to do as he is proposing asap, THEN once SoA's content is fully released, relics should be put back on top again. Basically, let Relics temporarily take a backseat through SoA, then once SoA is completely implemented Relics get another boost. This would let new gear have it's time.

---

tbh I'd rather have options, nobody has acquired one of the new delve weapons anyway, I think that the bosses of delve are a lot harder than we're letting on (remember to make the craftable weapons YOU HAVE to get a drop off one of the Delve Naakuals), were as the new R/E/M stats are much MUCH better than the plasma weapons.

plus this might be a good time that they're going to revamp mythic weapons... since that's been needed for years (since they assumed that mythics were going to be like these new weapons and "everyone can get one")

Is there gonna be some sort of horrible task we have to do for these upgrades or are they just gonna happen? I'm conflicted on which I would prefer cause I feel like I've already done a crap load of work for my 2 99s but handing people top tier weapons capable of challenging "level 20" content undermines the whole tiered progression system.

30k plasm npnp

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Camate

Greetings everyone,


Weapon Revamps








However, RME weapons have been considered the ultimate weapons up until this point in time, but I feel that this needs to change a bit.

I would like to make a shift so that instead of having it so that other weapons aren't necessary if you have RME weapons, you have a choice. If you are happy with RME, then you can use RME, and for those who want other weapons you can use other weapons.

---

---

Dear Mr. Matsui,
Thank you for sharing how you feel. It is of the utmost importance that how you feel is communicated to us. I'm glad the direction the game is taking is based on your feelings about weapons that took some of hundreds of manpower hours to quest.

I'm glad that your feelings are what is ruining the game for many of us, and the memories we have of it. It would have been devastating to us all if you had made such decisions based on more than your feelings, like perhaps, our feelings.

But since you are the game producer, it is important that your feelings are what guide this game's progression and not the player base or customers' sentiments.

This is a solid plan for success and I can see FFXI lasting another decade and your player base growing exponentially.

Please keep up the great work. I wish I could stay to see how wonderfully you progress, but I don't feel like it.
Your feelings matter so much to us.


Keep feeling.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Areayea

it's people like you why we can't have nice things. I'm not trying to completely discredit what you said, but if you think about it I'd hope you didn't think that they were going to release a new expansion with more alternatives, and more content (I. E. Gear/weapons/ect.). I'm excited now we have options, that's all i got out of his post is that they're going to give us "options" when it comes to delve weapons or we still wanna use the items we've spent years on. that some people will continue to spend years on.

---

Don't get me wrong, it's good thing that they introduce new things (I still hope for new missions and not in Wotg style...) but my point is no matter what, when they have a choice, players will always choose the best option available and not because they just like a weapon.

Also my main problem with all that R/E/Ms drama is that devs didn't see it coming. If they managed to screw up that bad once and if they keep releasing new weapons, you can be sure this will happen again. I just hope that in the future they'll think twice before releasing new gear, I don't want another "Sorry we didn't realize what we did but on the other side we have no answers for you because we didn't think about it".

Suggestion: I understand the development team needs to determine implementation, however, short of just immediate execution based on the proposed adjustments mentioned in the OP, I honestly don't think too much thought should be put into it... my reasoning...

As an example look at what it takes to procure a mythic...any mythic weapon... the quests, the alexandrite, then the multiple trials to get it to 99...

I repeat: ...short of just immediate execution (meaning, adjustments to base DMG, +an applicable stats, such as attack, accuracy etc. based on the proposed adjustments mentioned in the OP, I honestly don't think too much thought should be put into it.

I truly would hate to see more work added on to something just to make it relevant again...after the expansion made it irrelevant.

One thing to consider is maybe having empyrean weapons also unlock the weapon skills. From what it sounds like Empyrean and Relic weapons will be oudated, will someone who has a 99 empyrean but decides to use a delve weapon will they have to make a WoE weapon just to use the weapon skill? As someone who's done a lot of the camp NM trials I can tell you first hand they are tedious and not at all fun. Also what about the 99 relic weapon users?

This latest dev post sounds considerably better than the one before, and I also apprciate the more explicit content level explanation.

WoE coins seem to all been bought out on my server (extremely over priced ones now). Since JPs got the news first about unlocking the WS with WoE weapons.

Dear Dev Team anyway you guys can make it so we can trade in any level R/E for just the WS? Like take the lvl 85 Version of a Emp weapon and make it so we can trade it to the Magian Moogle to unlock the WS only and lose the weapon forever.

Because making a lvl 99 WoE weapon just to get a the WS is now out the window cause prices of dies and residues just went from 30k to 200k+ on my server from yesterday.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Zumi

WoE coins seem to all been bought out on my server (extremely over priced ones now). Since JPs got the news first about unlocking the WS with WoE weapons.

---

Ya total shit that soon as theres a way to make fast gil people are sorry as hell and do it and buy everything up like last week when people found out about the Pya'Ekue Belt people went and bought up Phos belts for 4mil and started selling them for 10-15mil+.