Because being forced to use such a low damage weapon at lvl 90 just sucks.
A new lvl 90 TH+1 dagger won't help because we'd be forced to use that *and* the Thief's Knife.
Whatever it is, make it very hard please. I'd like the Thief's Knife to mean something again. Turning the Thief's Knife into a trash item by making it a 100% drop was one of the worst ideas ever. It would have been better to just make it Rare/Ex.
Upgrade trial for thief's knife
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03-22-2011, 11:35 AMAtomic_SkullUpgrade trial for thief's knife
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03-22-2011, 11:40 AMCyrexx
TK trials would be fun
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03-22-2011, 11:44 AMAnon
Actually one of the best suggestions made yet.
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03-22-2011, 12:37 PMPesh
Or you could hit the mob with your TH gear on and switch into DD mode.
Once TH has been established, my TK swaps out and my Triplus comes in. -
03-22-2011, 01:53 PMFrost
I will bet it's literally on the top of the list for the new Synergy upgrade recipes.
The issue with Thief Knife is simple... it's NEVER going away, unless two more other Knives are born with Treasure Hunter on em that have superior stats, you'll be stuck using the old slow low damage Thief Knife one way or another... If anything just for superstition...... The only option would be a way to upgrade the existing one, and Synergy offers that avenue. -
03-22-2011, 07:42 PMLeaderofAtlantis
I think a trial to keep it at it's current level (so you can't have a 2nd - thereby stopping the problem of people expecting you to own 2 of them) but maybe lower the delay at least would be nice.
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03-22-2011, 09:28 PMKaeoni^ThisQuote:
Originally Posted by Pesh
Problem solved.
Even if the trials did exist what would be the point, no one would do them unless it gave TH+2 or something. You can switch the weapon out after you've hit the mob with it once, same goes for the rest of your Treasure hunter gear. -
03-22-2011, 10:29 PMKingofgeeks
knowing me, i'll just keep my TH gear on at all times... just to be safe
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03-22-2011, 11:49 PMArcon
I don't feel strongly one way or another, in some situations (NMs for the most part) TK will swapped out after you get a hit on anyway, other situations (Dynamis for example) swapping weapons all the time would prolly do more harm than good, however doing damage in those situations as a thief hardly matters. Getting TH on as many statues and mobs as possible is first priority, which, compared to the other DDs in there, barely counts for anything, damage wise.
The only situations I know that would be worth it is trigger farming in abyssea, but those mobs usually die with one WS anyway. It may be upgradeable with Synergy for the people who care, I probably still wouldn't bother with it. -
03-22-2011, 11:53 PMKarbuncleThis was absolutely logical safety precaution before the TH Update with log message.Quote:
Originally Posted by Kingofgeeks
However, When the game can now clearly show what level of TH You have on the mob, Its no reason to continue being superstitious/lazy!
As much as I'd like to see Thief's Knife damage upped through trials for when I'm farming and don't feel like macro bashing after every fight,LLike in Dynamis or Limbus, but I don't see it happening :(.
I hope it does. like, really, But instead of just Damage upgrade make the level 95/99 have TH+2 on it.
But the best solution is to, right now, know that you can put on your TH Gear, Hit mob > Take it off. No need to ever full time any of it. Its a little extra work, But its only hitting one button :) -
03-23-2011, 12:14 AMKhajitThe problem is that said trick only works on fights where you don't have to fight several mobs in a row in a short period of time. It doesn't work so well in any situation where you farm multiple trash mobs for drops.Quote:
Originally Posted by Kaeoni
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03-23-2011, 01:50 AMGropitouSame here, if i`m in a party to enhance drops I keep all my TH+ gear on all the time (either by lazyness or to avoid getting an early kill before i macro the gear back on).Quote:
Originally Posted by Kingofgeeks
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03-23-2011, 02:18 AMYarly
They need to add more TH+ to TK somehow. I don't care if it's trials or synergy.
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03-23-2011, 06:06 AMKaeoniTrue that.Quote:
Originally Posted by Khajit
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03-23-2011, 07:35 PMhiko
and nobody know if th gear have an effect on TH+ proc rate
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03-23-2011, 08:06 PMSiviard
As much as I would love to switch out my Thief's Knife and put on my Triplus Dagger after getting the initial hit in......my LS has specifically said "keep the TH gear on full-time."
/sigh -
03-24-2011, 08:50 AMAtomic_SkullQuote:
Originally Posted by Frost
That would screw over Mandau/Twastar/Vajra owners. -
03-24-2011, 09:54 AMGlamdring
honestly, I haven't been that impressed by the "boosted" drops due to building TH8+ anyways, it really doesn't seem that profound. I off-hand TK full-time while farming just in case, but I'm really not seeing it. Might as well ask for an upgrade to Bartholemew's Knife(?) to make Despoil, Steal and Aura Steal proc more, forgive me if I don't hold my breath.
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03-24-2011, 10:14 AMKarbuncleI'd drop that Linkshell like its hot :\Quote:
Originally Posted by Siviard
In the day and age where there is a visible record of the Level of Treasure Hunter, Anyone stupid enough to think you still need to Full-time TH Gear doesn't deserve to lead a linkshell.
You should start looking for one who has a leader with an IQ above your average preschooler, but then again, Thats an Insult to Preschoolers, cause even preschoolers can count to 10, And I'm sure they would have the intelligence to see if you hit a mob, and the next number (Via Upgrade) is 7, that they could deduce that 6 was what came before it! Your leader seems to not be able too.
Maybe he should retake Preschool/Kindergarten Math :D?
Then again I've always hated vehemently superstitious idiots that try to tell me how i should play my job (Namely, THF) When I'm the one whos been on it for 6+ Years. I think i know how to play it better than them.
(And Yes, I have left a shell because the leader tried to force me to not only full-time THFs knife, But main-hand it as well >.>) -
03-24-2011, 10:15 AMFrostI mean "superior" as in 'superior to the Thief Knife', not as in "Pinnacle Weapons".Quote:
Originally Posted by Atomic_Skull
Hope that makes sense now. -
03-24-2011, 10:30 AMAtomic_SkullIt's hard to eyeball a 0.08% increase in drops.Quote:
Originally Posted by Glamdring
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03-24-2011, 10:34 AMKarbuncleIts sad because thats about how i feel when i put TH on a mob... =.=Quote:
Originally Posted by Atomic_Skull
Especially getting say, Blue "!!" and TH8-9+ on a mob, for 4 fights, and not getting the blue drop until the fifth Kill, when my highest TH stuck was 6. (Base) -
03-24-2011, 11:10 AMFrost1/8 on Rani for ring.Quote:
Originally Posted by Karbuncle
1/5 on Panksdfhjtlf (Zelus Tiara NM)
I DO however really notice the drop rate increase A LOT when farming for NM pops (thinks like dented skulls, soulflayer stiffies, etc.) I prefer to farm NMs for key items on my ninja for obvious reasons, but getting the drops to pop those NMs is like 1:20 where thief it's more like 5/7. So there definitely is some sort of noticeable increase. -
03-24-2011, 02:39 PMAtomic_SkullMy Ls is 7/7 for epona's ringQuote:
Originally Posted by Frost
Are you getting blue !!? -
03-24-2011, 03:39 PMFrostEvery time. TH, level 8 or higher too. I was 0/4 then my buddies vowed to not leave until we got me my ring, we ended up farming 4 more pops.Quote:
Originally Posted by Atomic_Skull
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03-24-2011, 04:06 PMArcon
That's a bit harsh Karby. Some people are just superstitious, doesn't mean they're not fun to hang around with. My LS is full of people who don't play perfectly because of some wrong beliefs or misinformation. We still let our THF break the Dynamis glass, which admittedly is more a tradition than an actual belief by now, but still. If they're fun to be around, why leave?
Also, superstitions don't make them bad (or stupid) players. Some things may not make sense, but are still hard to test even with TH messages, for example if mainhanding TK increases TH upgrade chance or something like that. Also, to my knowledge, it hasn't been tested yet whether or not TH upgrades are enhanced by the currently equipped level of TH, no matter how unlikely it is. So technically there could be a very good reason to fulltime TH.
I still don't believe in directional synthing, and I think that's one of the biggest superstitions in the game (and this one is nearly impossible to test even in over a 100 synths, which is why I really hope SE will shed some light on it sometime). Still I wouldn't call anyone who does it stupid, in fact some of the smartest people I know buy into that. Just the way some people play. -
03-24-2011, 04:17 PMFrostThey did, they flat out said Moon Phase, day, and direction have no affect on synthing.Quote:
Originally Posted by Arcon
People see what they want to see and ignore what doesn't fit in their paradigm. Every time you check after getting a HQ and it matches your beliefs you strengthen those beliefs, any time it doesn't, THAT'S the anomaly... Human nature. -
03-24-2011, 09:08 PMBabygyrlQuote:
Originally Posted by Pesh
yep i do this too obviously when fighting nms and stuff but when im just farming like in ssg or oz or something.. its just way too much effort for me to keep switching back and forth when the mobs die in1- 2 ws now :x so a higher damage thf knife would be great to have in those situations -
03-24-2011, 09:25 PMArconOh? I must have missed that. When did they say it?Quote:
Originally Posted by Frost
Anyway, my point is it's not necessarily a bad thing, if people wanna believe in this stuff, let them. -
03-24-2011, 10:42 PMKraatosacctaully i have found out that u dont have to proc TH with the gear equiped, on occasion i have jus equiped all my TH gear , Knife/Hands,Feet and took it back off cause of ws or something before proc. and it would still proc 7/8 depending on if im using atma of dread or notQuote:
Originally Posted by Pesh
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03-25-2011, 01:03 AMKarbuncleI respect your Opinion on the subject, And that you may think I'm harsh, But I believe if Anything I'm very fair on the Subject. (Also Note most of this rant will probably not be directed at you, and more at defending my reasons for leaving the shell in my original post, and why i feel the idea of superstitions are okay, but not okay to be forced on other people.)Quote:
Originally Posted by Arcon
I've played the job for 6~+ years. I've done countless events with it, and even before the big update on TH i knew THF's knife could be Offhanded. This update proves that at least. And Its not so much the Superstitious stuff, Its that, If your superstitious and think you need to fulltime your TH Gear, mainhanding an inferior weapon and massively gimping your damage... Do not force it on me. My problem is with the People who try to Force me to follow their Superstitions. I do not like being told how to play my job, i was offered an ultimatum, Obey, or leave. I chose to leave.
I Can absolutely take advice, But when I'm told to do something i know is wrong, I will refuse to do it. I used to listen, But i don't anymore. If they felt that THFs should mainhand and fulltime TH+ Gear, they can level the jobs themselves.
I simply can not stand the sense of entitlement people seem to feel because they bought an 8k Item from an NPC, that they can tell you how to play your job, what to wear and when. People who are "Fun" Don't order you to keep gimping your DPS on a system that has already proven you do not need to keep your TH Gear on. I Happen to have fun with people who trust me enough to know how to play my job, Not force me to believe their superstitions. In that light me and the guy i quoted in my other post are probably different.
The guy clearly states he is told/forced to fulltime the gear, Meaning the other person is clearly forcing his superstition on this person because he holds the Sack/Shell. At least thats what i got out of it :|
Last after-thought, I'm almost 99% Positive that i remember seeing reports and tests on "TH upgrade rate based on TH+ Gear" Showing that it does not have an impact on upgrade rate in the slightest, and that, Like the Update notes say, The only way to better your chance at an upgrade is through the use of SA and TA. I could be remembering wrong... I know that i haven't ever seen a difference. But I'm just one man Eyeballing. Either way... The post above was my opinion, And i will stand by it
I hope this elaborates as to why I am so prudent when it comes to TH+ gear and other people forcing their superstitions on me.
Edit: Second Afterthought, The shell I'm talking about i left darn near 2 years ago, Its just an experience that stuck with me. I have to clarify this cause i recently left another shell due to completely different reasons and circumstances and i didn't want someone mixing them up.
Edit2: also, Where i mention in my post the "Forcing" of superstition, Its not directed to anyone on this thread, but to the old LS i'm referencing. I do not think anyone here is forcing their superstitions :)! -
03-25-2011, 03:11 AMEeek
The update that showed us THFs the TH level in the chatlog was a godsend. Before that update, I'd fully support a method for improving Thief Knife's damage, but now I don't care anymore. I only full-time it in Dynamis (mobs die so fast!) or while farming pop items for low-tier Abyssea NMs. For actual NM fights, I only swing it once, with TH hands and feet, and then swap to a real dagger and real gear.
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03-25-2011, 07:11 AMSNK......You realize it's easy to see TH gear effects now simply by what you're wearing & what level TH you proct on a mob when it happens? I can't believe someone actually posted something this stupid.Quote:
Originally Posted by hiko
Also the amount of THFs I saw ages ago who main handed THF's Knife with a Blau offhand really made my head hurt. I got into the shit with someone who demanded I always wear TH gear fulltime in sky on gods. -
03-25-2011, 07:58 AMVold
I'd like to see a better TH knife because it sucks to be restricted to it during farming too weaks. Specifically orcs in Dav for masks. It's just not worth the trouble of switching weapons. Say about 37-40 dmg, 176 delay, maybe a TH +2 bonus for the final trial, should suffice. I will also take the time to ask for a different model with the final version... just because I'm tired of looking at the current one. Shrug. It would mean a different dagger and that people could use TK with it but w/e. I'm not noticing a massive difference as is anyway so I doubt it's suddenly going to have a meaningful change on drop rates. Though, I want something that looks cool and not some generic piece of crap. Kind of tired that weapons only get the cool treatment under special circumstances. I guess my suggestion doesn't have to be restricted to trials and could be done via this synergy business in the works or from a NM somewhere but either way I would very much love to see a new TH dagger for THF.
No, SE has never confirmed or denied or "flat out said" Moon Phase, day, and direction have no effect on synthing. The most we've gotten out of them is "If you believe, it will be so" which if you want to believe that means confirming such things have no effect then I'm inclined to point out it can also mean if you want to believe they don't effect crafting then it will be so. I'll also point out as I have many times over the years that a persons belief that they do not factor into crafting is no more valid than the other way around. These things could be coded in the game to effect crafting by .1% and we would never be able to eye ball or parse the difference. But I think we all can agree that it really just doesn't matter if it's there or isn't there. If it is it's so little that it might as well not be there to begin with.Quote:
Originally Posted by Frost
Directional crafting has always been a really silly concept. It's easily debunked. But the others can't be so easily dismissed, and really aren't worth being tested. But I would love for SE to finally comment on it with a yes or a no. They did in regards to TH and items like lucky egg not effecting it. I wish they would for crafting. -
03-29-2011, 07:37 PMAmoklauf
When I read the op I thought we were going to talk about TK getting another tier of of TH on it as a result of the trial, not making it a valid full-time weapon DD-wise.
However, "yes" it'd be nice to not have to full-time a crappy weapon in Dynamis or any other place where you'd be killing many weak mobs in a row. Especially when solo or duo'ing with a mage, that single dagger accounts for a relatively large portion of the overall damage, so it'd slow down in situations like farming pop items in Abyssea.
Either augmenting it with more base damage or adding enough TH to it that it'd be more "worth" the sacrifice would be welcomed. Both would be even better.