So I was out leveling RUN, starting to skill up that greatsword skill that I had been slacking on and went to go start on a magian trial. Guess what I found... Rune Fencer can only use the elemental path. Yes. I understand that the "OAT" path dose start off the same as the empyrean trials, but that dose not make it the same as the empyrean trials.
I was starting to have fun playing again, was going to pick up resolution and get a bunch of gear for RUN so I could min/max it, but this realy took the wind out of my sails. Suddenly, I was left with the choice of either spending 3 million+ for a greatsword on the auction house or spending 3 million+ for flame geode from the still non-existant fire weather.
All I ask if for a reconition that the "OAT" trials are separate from the empyrean path and that rune fencer be added to it.
"Occasionaly Attacks Twice" Rune Fencer.
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04-16-2013, 09:10 AMTsukino_Kaji"Occasionaly Attacks Twice" Rune Fencer.
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04-16-2013, 11:28 AMAlhanelem
rune fencers aren't cool enough to attack twice, sorry! >.>
(j/k) -
04-16-2013, 02:15 PMObysucaDo some VW, get a Gram >.>Quote:
Originally Posted by Tsukino_Kaji
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04-16-2013, 04:19 PMTickmeofffixed that for youQuote:
Originally Posted by Obysuca
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04-16-2013, 04:25 PMUrthdigger
How is it being the same path as Empyrean a reason for it not to get it? Great Sword is kinda RUN's thing.
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04-16-2013, 04:48 PMnyheen
just pick up a Jingang Greatsword it only like 1.5mil most servers
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04-16-2013, 06:55 PMCamiie
Can anyone tell me what would break if RUN were on the entire physical Magian path including Empyrean? We have lots of very gifted number crunchers out there, so I'm sure someone could tell us what would be so horribly unbalanced about it.
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04-16-2013, 07:28 PMnyheenwell maybe not broken but unfair with the empyrean weapon. new jobs just came out and anyone that already got a Caladbolg can use it. reason why dnc sch didn get into the relic or so. rune just came out!. give it little time and it will have some epic adoulin weapon that comes out + AF etcQuote:
Originally Posted by Camiie
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04-16-2013, 07:54 PMCamiieHmm. I have a Verethragna for MNK. If I then go and level PUP I don't have to go make a new Empyrean. I don't see where the chronological age of the job has anything to do with it as either way the job is new to me.Quote:
Originally Posted by nyheen
Besides, I'm pretty sure SE claimed it was for BALANCE!! reasons and not out of fairness. That's why I wanted to know what was so unbalanced about it. -
04-17-2013, 12:45 AMSapphireTo you or me, likely nothing is unbalanced. To them, there is. Personally I do think it's kinda crazy that the new jobs would unbalance the physical paths, and NOT the elemental paths, but there you have it. But I also think that the game won't break if DNC can use a Mandau or if Aura Steal was on a different timer, etc, etc.Quote:
Originally Posted by Camiie
But SE does. And do not seem likely to change their minds. The best RUN can hope for a NEW physical path in the future. -
04-17-2013, 12:50 AMKojoINB4 "Rune Fencer will now gain access to the spell Temper."Quote:
Originally Posted by Alhanelem
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04-17-2013, 01:22 AMnyheenya but pup came out before abyssea so when the new weapons came out everyone had a fair chance to get it. reason why pup was not on the relic list. would be unfair if all my friends that already lvl drk, war, pld & it got a Caladbolg & Ragnarok that can use it on rune right off the back. once the weapons come out for rune everyone gets a fair shot. so no free pass for you!Quote:
Originally Posted by Camiie
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04-17-2013, 02:21 AMDemon6324236I would delete my character and quit.Quote:
Originally Posted by Kojo
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04-17-2013, 02:25 AMDemon6324236Your full of it. If you wanted a super weapon for RUN there was plenty of time, we knew more than 6 months ago when it was confirmed that RUN would be using GS that it would get no R/Es, if they did, you would have had 6 months to build a Ragnarok or a Caladbolg, seems like that is a fair shot to me. In either case, this is not about Emps or Relics, this is about the OAT, a weapon which it should have access to in either case, the fact its restricted from it is stupid, just because it is a similar path should not make it impossible for a RUN to obtain it, in all honesty it only shares 3 trials with Emp/Relic so far as I recall, which is minor.Quote:
Originally Posted by nyheen
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04-17-2013, 03:06 AMnyheenlol hey i dont make the rules so dont take it out on me. maybe it got something to do with the coding,ps2 limit? or SE just simply dont want rune on it. geo dont get the OaT club alsoQuote:
Originally Posted by Demon6324236
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04-17-2013, 03:17 AMKojoLOL, I'd rather see a "Riposte" spell, like I suggested before, that is like Reprisal for Parrying.Quote:
Originally Posted by Demon6324236
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04-17-2013, 04:20 AMAlhanelemthey haven't stolen enough from RDM with both new jobs yet, so I won't be surprised :DQuote:
Originally Posted by Kojo
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04-17-2013, 04:33 AMKojo"After the completion of this update, Rune Fencer will have access to the weapon skill "Death Blossom"."Quote:
Originally Posted by Alhanelem
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04-17-2013, 06:02 AMUmichibecause everyone can pull 20+mil out their bums for a relic in less than six months. empy meh idk how much it costs.... your statement however could be used the opposite way. they did tell you 6 months ago that Run wasn't getting said weapons... yet everyone still treats this as though it was yesterday's news... I havent even seen any new weapons outside of coalition gear i know skirms drop gear im sure youll find plenty of weapons soon enough. if not GS has some of the best to offer high endgame wise. sides.... your a tank.. not a DD you don't need ragnarok to tank and might be far from practicleQuote:
Originally Posted by Demon6324236
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04-17-2013, 06:10 AMDemon6324236No, you don't make the rules, you make up rules, SE never said the entire Physical Trial paths would be over powered, they said Emp and Relic weapons would be, which are very different, as such this entire thread is instantly justified till SE addresses it.Quote:
Originally Posted by nyheen
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04-17-2013, 06:15 AMDemon6324236Relics are about 100M on my server as of right now. It takes 6 months of Dynamis at 100 currency a run, 3 at 200 a run, 2 at 300 a run, I myself can make a Relic in 2 months if I want to badly enough, I do not right now because I hate Dynamis, but the point is, its possible easily, even if you do poorly at Dyna you could have made one in time if they were on the weapons. RUN is on the new GS which ties or tops Ragnarok, and the point is not about being the best DD, but rather real balance, balance is not create when you exclude jobs from the strongest weapons, no matter their design intentions, rather you leave the job weaker than others simply because of the date it was released.Quote:
Originally Posted by Umichi
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04-17-2013, 06:23 AMUmichi
what's required for that 100 piece a run? I'm pretty sure you used either a dnc or a dnc to help get faster procs? 100 mill is even worse than my guestimate. 6 months is with a dedicated group. i find it hard enough to even find some peeps from my ls to help me build my relic. and i know for sure a endgame linkshell isn't going to let someone like me obtain a relic ahead of someone else. So from my perspective even if i knew RUN was coming out. on top of all the things im already busy with and my inability to find peoples to hunt currency with im not reaching anywhere near 100+mil or 100+ currency per run as an average player.. of which i am.. I'm barely finishing my first stage and i started 2 months ago
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04-17-2013, 06:39 AMDemon6324236I do about 150 a run on average on RDM/DNC solo in Valk, I do 150~200 on my BST character solo in which I also do Valk. If I am not mistaken, your average relic takes about 18000 currency, 100 a run means 3000 a month, 18/3=6, which means 6 months to make a relic solo if you are doing worse than I do on either of my characters on average. I do not see how the average player in incapable of this, everyone can level BST, everyone can do it in a couple of days, everyone can use the AH to buy a stack of Falcorrs and food to heal them, and every BST can do some easy seal/+2 farming, even solo with your newly leveled BST provided you have some decent atma. All of this is offtopic, but still, Emps are able to be built in less than a month by anyone seriously trying to do it, even the harder/more annoying ones like Chloris and Glavoid, you can at least get a level 85 Emp, and I already explained the time estimates on Relics, so its not as though it would have been impossible for people to get these things done in the 6 month period.Quote:
Originally Posted by Umichi
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04-17-2013, 06:49 AMUmichi
see the prerequisite here is you have to have dnc subed in order to pull it off. i don't plan on leveling dnc or using it as a sub so *shrug* your move now. and sure everyone and their mom can level bst.. but do i have to force myself to do something i don't like just so i can accomplish things... it's like people forcing me to go whm to events even though we have 4-5 and i want to be drg.
TDLR not everyone should be forced to level bst just to meet your demands or a reasonable time frame for currency. even if someone averages 2-3 hours a day on this game that's still 1 hour out of your 3 that your stuck doing tedious work and as an average player im not gonna be farming every day. not everyone is super rich, elite, badass.., or conforms. -
04-17-2013, 08:24 AMDemon6324236
Ok, lets say they added a brand new relic weapon into the game, just for RUN. Now, lets say everyone started working on that, what you consider average players, would have no shot at getting this in less than five years at the rate you said your going (2 months for the first stage, which is 500 or less currency, would mean about 6 years to make an entire relic) so they would take a long time to get it. Players like myself could make the same weapon in 2~3 months without much problem, we would simply muddle through doing Dynamis for a while and be done with it.
Now if you look at things this way, people playing more still have a much greater advantage to those who are going much slower. The first comment on this subject was saying that it would be unfair for people who already own Ragnarok or Caladbolg to be able to use them on RUN because they would start out ahead. My point being, there is no real advantage or disadvantage, if they were added to the weapons, there would have been 6 months to work on it, fair ground for all in either case. The problem is that some people do not want to put in the work to do it, or do not have time to.
You complain in your post about not conforming, sorry, there are other ways around it, you play DRG for instance, you can still do JA procs I'm sure, you have a few jumps at your disposal to do just that, it may be slower but I am sure a DRG could pull it off. Also, Dynamis is 2 hours, not 1 hour, so your time is actually a bit off, same with your earlier estimate of money, which makes me question your actual knowledge over how making a relic goes and how easy/hard one can be. I myself make my Excalibur in 6 months because I hated Dyna and dragged it out over a long period because of that fact, I did not want to do it, it bored me, and I hated it.
You said something about being forced to go WHM to events rather than DRG, I know that exact feel, I main RDM, so I am sure you can understand where I stand on getting to goto events on my job of preference. The point of the entire thing is that there are ways to work around it, you can not complain about being unable to get a relic when you are perfectly capable of working around your problem on your own, and simply refuse to due to stubborn preference. I never told you to level BST or DNC either, some jobs do Dyna without either of those, for instance it is easily possible to go do Dyna on PUP/THF and rival a BST in how much currency you pull doing JA mobs, it simply takes skill and time to learn how to perform on the job inside of Dynamis.
In the end, the entire point of everything I am and have been saying is that there was time to prepare, and everyone would have been on fair ground had they said back at Vanafest that we would have RMEs on RUN and GEO just like every other job. The same disadvantages apply for everyone in either case, either we had 6 months to work, which actually means people had a better chance of being ready upon their release, or we went without them, and the 'hardcore' players will still advance these jobs much faster than others. In a way, I just realized it would have been better to be able to work on the jobs weapons for the last 6 months, as it would give everyone a chance to prepare before the release, rather than having to wait till release to really start on working on the job because now we know its actual choices on what to use.
The entire point of this thread is not about Emp/Relic, as I said earlier and should be obvious by its title, its about the OAT GS. A weapon which is on the same path as the Emp for 3 trials, then goes on an entirely different path. Its a weapon many people own, just like the Elemental GS, the Borealis, the Hoarfrost Blade, the Gram, and many other high tier GS that were out before this update. There is no reason RUN should not be on the weapon, it is not unfairly powerful, its not better than the new GS from Skirmish, its just another GS, one of which is actually fairly good, and many people want for it. This weapon would not put RUN high on the DPS charts, in fact the OAT properties would probably be somewhat diminished by the high amounts of multi-attack gear that RUN gets like Thaumas Body. -
04-17-2013, 11:45 AMTsukino_KajiI'm glad someone can read.Quote:
Originally Posted by Demon6324236
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04-17-2013, 03:45 PMRezeak
First let me make my self clear "I believe RUN should of had access to all Magian weapon including Emperyans"
Great Sword Tier (ignoring skirmish)
Ragnarok > OAT > Emperyan
So the reasoning that RUN isn't on OAT is most likly the same as why it's not on Emperyan and well I don't have that flawed reasoning, SE does.
As for the reasoning making sense .... nope lol RUN is probably on the same level as PLD when it comes to Great sword DD and well I don't see Ragna PLDs toppling DRKs, WARs, SAMs, MNKs, DRGs ect.
Either way, as little reasoning as SE has, asking for RUN to be able to use OAT over Emperyan(a weaker weapon) with no solid reasoning outside of it not being an empyrean is just as silly and just comes across as "I HAVE A OAT GSD BUT NOT AN EMPERYAN". -
04-18-2013, 01:19 AMRusticIt actually implies that RUN's AF path might have something similar to what you'd get w/Magian physical. Also, RUN being an "elemental damage" sword user, having the elemental path being their weapon path only makes sense, even if you'd be able to do nice things with the other option.Quote:
Originally Posted by Camiie
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04-18-2013, 06:41 AMCamiieThat would be pretty darn powerful AF if it gave them an exclusive weaponskill, high weapon damage, and some degree of multiple attacks (DA%/OA2-4).Quote:
Originally Posted by Rustic
It doesn't really make sense considering jobs known for their magical prowess are offered the option of purely physical weapons, and jobs with zero magic ability can access elemental weapons.Quote:
Also, RUN being an "elemental damage" sword user, having the elemental path being their weapon path only makes sense, even if you'd be able to do nice things with the other option.
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04-18-2013, 08:25 AMHayward
Back on topic, I'd say go for a MND+/MDB+ Tenebreuse (Leviatites & Aqua Geodes are dirt cheap, unless some schmo is jacking up the prices) or the STR+/Attack version (if you have gil to burn).
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04-18-2013, 08:36 AMDemon6324236PDT would be a better choice than MDB. RUN can tank Magic just fine already, but taking a hit to the face... that is not so good, PDT is your best way to work around that especially since the job probably has bleh PDT gear outside of that anyways.Quote:
Originally Posted by Hayward
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04-18-2013, 09:16 AMObysucaGram works too >.> Same damage and delay as Hoarfrost, plus it gives refresh. And it's only 1.2 mil so it's buyable also. He can also get a Kriegsmesser. Plenty of doable GS until the new ones either drop in price or SE gives us something that drops frequently.Quote:
Originally Posted by Tickmeoff
If he wants something thats pretty much free, he might as well get Coalition sword >.> Will match his full pink lol -
04-18-2013, 09:18 AMGlamdring
there is NOTHING unbalanced about any job getting access to a Empy, mythic or relic weapon-that is job appropriate at least. I'm going with laziness as the justification. I mean really, how many years has dancer been out that it can't use a Mandau? They just had to go without a relic at all. Sure they had a mythic to work on-that's only like twice as difficult to earn as a relic. Now, an empy weapon IS the "poor man's relic" that mythic was advertised to be, and we still can't get that. Other jobs were equally as screwed.
The ONLY justification would be to promote play in the new system they are implementing (note that they aren't implementing one), and out of a system they aren't supporting anymore. 1 problem, they revampped dynamis, WoE, salvage, ein, etc. so clearly they ARE supporting these. Makes the "justification" completely bogus to anyone not sitting in the dev's office, at least based on the opinion sampling apparent in the forum. Now, I only play on the real servers, and I know alot of players can't be botherred to post on here. BUT I've been playing this game for 10+ years now and have a wide acquaintanceship, if the devs were right in their assessment that this is ok it is even stranger that in that entire time I have never encounterred even ONE player that agreed with this policy. You would have thaought I would at least have stumbled accross an SE employee on their toon that did, but nope, not a 1.
Think about it... -
04-26-2013, 10:19 PMAeri-catYou're likely right, but there's no good reason for it. "Oh, you already put the time and effort into unlocking a weapon of the type a new class uses? Sorry, were not gonna let them use that for 6 weeks." is not a good reason.Quote:
Originally Posted by nyheen
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04-26-2013, 10:23 PMAeri-catSo, because you haven't leveled a job that uses GS before RUN came out, it's fair to lock people who have put the time and effort into upgrading a GS out of using that GS on a job that is the only job with A+ in that weapon type? I humbly disagree sir, and would like to point out that no one stopped you from leveling PLD DRK or WAR.Quote:
Originally Posted by nyheen
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04-26-2013, 10:28 PMAeri-catso because you're too lazy to level a sub or main that works for what you want to farm, you want stuff handed to you? sounds legit.... if thats the kind of experience you want, maybe you' be better off playing WoW?Quote:
Originally Posted by Umichi
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04-27-2013, 04:00 AMHoradrimPretty much this...Quote:
Originally Posted by Aeri-cat
EDIT:
Meanwhile... the whole thing doesn't really need an explanation -- they just decided they didn't want the jobs on that tree of upgrades for one reason or another. Whether they gave you the real reason or they made up a fake one, the end result is the same.
And I doubt it is something they'll allow themselves to be debated on. -
04-27-2013, 05:27 AMLuvbunny
For all we know, the RUN path of E/M/R may lies in the SoA endgame contents. If you think Relic is a grind, just be grateful that you can do it solo, on your own, 2 hours a day, everyday, with some jobs options. SoA may be off limits for solo-er and the pre-requisites may make 3 person requirements of Salvage a walk in the park. All the fat cats who thinks that gils and a bunch of LS members can be conned to get them their new shiny weapons, may be in for a real surprise once the new team reveal their grand plans for your new shiny. And the forum once again will be alive, with contempt on how obvious SE is trying to stall any progress - once people realize they can't just steam roll and buy everything lol.