Lunge and Magic Atk. Bonus

Grabbed an ascetic drink from a blue chest, used it, got 100+ damage boost on Lunge, so.. safe to say magic atk. boost seems to work on it, so.. grab those moldavite earrings from your mog safe while you can!

from playing with a brew, it looks like it has an upper level cap to prevent brewers from doing 9bajillion damage.

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Originally Posted by Losie

Grabbed an ascetic drink from a blue chest, used it, got 100+ damage boost on Lunge, so.. safe to say magic atk. boost seems to work on it, so.. grab those moldavite earrings from your mog safe while you can!

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Mine went from just over 400, to just under 600 with ascetics.

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Originally Posted by hideka

from playing with a brew, it looks like it has an upper level cap to prevent brewers from doing 9bajillion damage.

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Was this with MAB atmas too? Brew only gives you INT, not MAB.

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Originally Posted by Babekeke

Was this with MAB atmas too? Brew only gives you INT, not MAB.

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I thought you got MAB as well, thats why magic based WSs under a brew are the best thing in the game, where as without a brew they are trash on nearly every job.

It isn't Dev confirmed or anything but most the theorycrafting on Brew is that it gives ~900 MAB. It also gives +99 all stats, and 99 int = ~49 MAB right?

I do agree with OP, most likely capped to prevent Lunge Cheesing fights. Full alliance of Runes with Brew up and uncapped Lunge would = 297,000 damage on just 440 weaponskill with no additional MAB outside of brew, enough to instant kill most NM's really :P

Brew gives 999 stats not 99. I also doubt that brew gives any magic attack bonus. And INT =/= MAB. The 2 Int = 1 MAB was a general comparison black mages used when gearing at 75, as 2 INT was usually comparable to 1 MAB when you ran it through the damage formula.

Physical weaponskills cap out much lower than magic (especially in Abyssea where your fSTR is likely capped). After that, you only get some damage from the secondary mods (e.g. AGI: 35%). So while they are definitely boosted by brew, it's the cap that holds them back.

Magic weaponskills on the other hand don't cap out. So they get the full effect of the +999 stat, and then on top of that they have +999 stat for the secondary mod. Also, the atma that you take have a big boost to the damage as well.

For Wild Fire, if you have absolutely no native MAB (which most likely is not the case), taking Ultimate (50 MAB) + Smoldering Sky (30 Fire Affinity) + Lone Wolf (30 Fire affinity) results in a (1 x 1.5 x 1.6 = 2.4) 140% damage increase. And that's without any MAB the COR/RNG is using.
Wild Fire already has a high ftp mod, and the 60% agility mod is going to up your damage substantially (over 16x damage).

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Originally Posted by Annalise

Brew gives 999 stats not 99. I also doubt that brew gives any magic attack bonus. And INT =/= MAB. The 2 Int = 1 MAB was a general comparison black mages used when gearing at 75, as 2 INT was usually comparable to 1 MAB when you ran it through the damage formula.

Physical weaponskills cap out much lower than magic (especially in Abyssea where your fSTR is likely capped). After that, you only get some damage from the secondary mods (e.g. AGI: 35%). So while they are definitely boosted by brew, it's the cap that holds them back.

Magic weaponskills on the other hand don't cap out. So they get the full effect of the +999 stat, and then on top of that they have +999 stat for the secondary mod. Also, the atma that you take have a big boost to the damage as well.

For Wild Fire, if you have absolutely no native MAB (which most likely is not the case), taking Ultimate (50 MAB) + Smoldering Sky (30 Fire Affinity) + Lone Wolf (30 Fire affinity) results in a (1 x 1.5 x 1.6 = 2.4) 140% damage increase. And that's without any MAB the COR/RNG is using.
Wild Fire already has a high ftp mod, and the 60% agility mod is going to up your damage substantially (over 16x damage).

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Apologies, misremembered the # of 9's. Either way BG-Wiki (kind of the de facto english #'s site for theorycrafting) had it listed as +900 MAB with testing done through forums to validate the claim.

http://www.bg-wiki.com/bg/Primeval_Brew

Now since the bonus isn't explicitly confirmed by dev's I can't say it is fact, but there is every indication at least ATM that you are getting MAB out of Brew... take it how you will.

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Originally Posted by orakio

Apologies, misremembered the # of 9's. Either way BG-Wiki (kind of the de facto english #'s site for theorycrafting) had it listed as +900 MAB with testing done through forums to validate the claim.

http://www.bg-wiki.com/bg/Primeval_Brew

Now since the bonus isn't explicitly confirmed by dev's I can say it is fact, but there is every indication at least ATM that you are getting MAB out of Brew... take it how you will.

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I wonder if that takes into account that you get half of your INT as MAB? Isn't the equation 2 INT = 1 MAB?

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Originally Posted by Horadrim

I wonder if that takes into account that you get half of your INT as MAB? Isn't the equation 2 INT = 1 MAB?

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Somebody with a better understanding of the calculations for various weapons skills would have to do the number crunching on that one for you. From what I understand of reading up on it though the damage values we see on elemental weapon skills aren't accounted for just from the dInt and secondary stat modifier calculations alone hence why people hypothesized that there was a build in form of MAB in brew as well.

Ultimatley though this goes back to lunge and and brew's effect on it and from Hideka's post it appears that Lunge is not getting as large of a boost from brew as elemental weapon skills do. This seems to suggest a number of possible scenarios, either a MAB hardcap on Lunge, or incorrectly hypothesized MAB values on brew itself, or the fact that the elemental WS's have those secondary factors such as dStat values and secondary stat modifiers that lunge seems to lack.

The post gives the base line:

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With no MAB, staff or multipliers a dINT capped Stone 1 is 42 damage.

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Ran a quick test on DRK/SAM and adding 19 INT did nothing to my Stone. I still did 42 damage.

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Originally Posted by Horadrim

I wonder if that takes into account that you get half of your INT as MAB? Isn't the equation 2 INT = 1 MAB?

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Using the old 2 INT =~ 1 MAB formula for BLM nukes is only useful for spells we can't cap dINT on.

Also it was 2 INT was equivalent to 1 MAB not 2 INT gives you 1 MAB.

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Originally Posted by orakio

I do agree with OP, most likely capped to prevent Lunge Cheesing fights. Full alliance of Runes with Brew up and uncapped Lunge would = 297,000 damage on just 440 weaponskill with no additional MAB outside of brew, enough to instant kill most NM's really :P

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What the hell have you found in abyssea that you need the whole alliance to use a brew on!?!?

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Originally Posted by Babekeke

What the hell have you found in abyssea that you need the whole alliance to use a brew on!?!?

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Absolutely nothing, doesn't mean developers don't plan to prevent cheese mechanics. It was more of a hypothetical goofy what-if situation.

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Originally Posted by orakio

Absolutely nothing, doesn't mean developers don't plan to prevent cheese mechanics. It was more of a hypothetical goofy what-if situation.

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I.e. they do learn their lesson sometimes a-la Modus Veritas. T.T

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Originally Posted by hideka

from playing with a brew, it looks like it has an upper level cap to prevent brewers from doing 9bajillion damage.

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I really don't think Brews have an authentic MAB... I know BG says it does, but i think that might just be the Int/2 = MAB effect they are seeing. I could very well be wrong, but I feel like with how directly MAB effect magic damage (remember MAB is handled as a percentage not as an integer like ATK or R.ATK) that even BLM numbers would be much higher.

Again, I could be absolutely wrong.

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Originally Posted by Babekeke

What the hell have you found in abyssea that you need the whole alliance to use a brew on!?!?

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The only time you need more than one person to brew something is when you need procs.

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Originally Posted by Horadrim

I really don't think Brews have an authentic MAB... I know BG says it does, but i think that might just be the Int/2 = MAB effect they are seeing. I could very well be wrong, but I feel like with how directly MAB effect magic damage (remember MAB is handled as a percentage not as an integer like ATK or R.ATK) that even BLM numbers would be much higher.

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Might want to take the time to read every post in the thread this has already been answered and...

INT DOES NOT GIVE OR CONVERT TO MAB!

Browsing through BG Wiki and I managed to pick out what look like the best items if you really want to pimp out your lunges:

RUN equipable MAB gear

There are a few alternative options of course, but the set I chose is the best MAB, then where multiple options have the same MAB I chose the easiest to obtain, with the best other stats (eg. I left out Chelona Hat +1 as it has enmity -6 on it... not ideal for tanking).

53 MAB, 9 slots, still has enmity -16 on it, but to drop the enmity you have to drop the MAB.

Of the 9 slots, the ring is only 1 MAB, legs 4, feet 5, and the rest is 6-8.

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Originally Posted by Babekeke

Browsing through BG Wiki and I managed to pick out what look like the best items if you really want to pimp out your lunges:

RUN equipable MAB gear

There are a few alternative options of course, but the set I chose is the best MAB, then where multiple options have the same MAB I chose the easiest to obtain, with the best other stats (eg. I left out Chelona Hat +1 as it has enmity -6 on it... not ideal for tanking).

53 MAB, 9 slots, still has enmity -16 on it, but to drop the enmity you have to drop the MAB.

Of the 9 slots, the ring is only 1 MAB, legs 4, feet 5, and the rest is 6-8.

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Demon Rings get MAB 1-3 augment in T.Canyon

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Originally Posted by Zagen

Demon Rings get MAB 1-3 augment in T.Canyon

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Good point, they didn't show up on the BG wiki page for MAB. added to the gear set to total 58 MAB now.

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Originally Posted by Babekeke

Good point, they didn't show up on the BG wiki page for MAB. added to the gear set to total 58 MAB now.

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Always check both FFXIclopedia and BG. Each one has different info and usually it takes both to get a full picture.

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Originally Posted by Zagen

Might want to take the time to read every post in the thread this has already been answered and...

INT DOES NOT GIVE OR CONVERT TO MAB!

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How about you calm down? If you're going to go into an all caps rage everytime someone doesn't read every single post in a forum you might want to reconsider posting at all.

The statement "2 INT = 1 MAB" originates as a rough comparison of the effects within the magic damage equation after/before a certain numeral value. Yeah, it doesn't convert directly, but I actually had a few conversations with LS members and some pretty serious BLMs about it while looking at some gear for GEO the consensus was that the 2:1 ratio still holds up even now.

For those curious... At 75 cap there was a lot of R&D put into the equivalent relationship between INT and Magic Attack Bonus, a final estimate of around 1.8 INT = 1 MAB was determined and even after 99 cap increase the value still holds up surprisingly well. It is, however, incredibly subjective (like most formulas are in FFXI) and whether you want to build straight MAB, balance with INT, or go straight INT (though I don't think that happens much) depends greatly on what you're doing, like Tier IV's are closer to 1.50 INT:1 MAB, depending on your race/merits/gear. And all of this is very much an outside of Abyssea thing, as Abyssea just destroys most numbers and calculations with its ridiculousness.

All of that being said, a lot of people still consider 2INT:1MAB to be a fair comparison if you keep the subjectivity of it in mind.

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Originally Posted by Horadrim

How about you calm down? If you're going to go into an all caps rage everytime someone doesn't read every single post in a forum you might want to reconsider posting at all..

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I'm sorry if I don't appreciate when people spread poorly worded information at best completely wrong information at worst, especially when it was already pointed out in context within the same topic. Had you spent the extra few minutes to read all the posts you would have been able to prevent this from ever happening.

Funny thing is that rough ratio is highly selective as to when it is actually true, and it is completely irrelevant to the main topic which was that Lunge benefited from MAB and then further expanded to note it has a damage cap. INT/MAB was only brought up because people were mistaken in assuming the increased damage was from 999 INT instead of the 900 MAB when using a Primeval Brew outside of the context of an INT modified spell/ws, because apparently some people interpreted the old 2INT:1MAB ratio as 2 INT converted to 1 MAB.

I can't find the post now, but didn't someone say that INT appears to have no affect on Lunge? Iirc, they tested lunge naked, then with twilight gear on (INT +25), and got the same damage.

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Originally Posted by Babekeke

I can't find the post now, but didn't someone say that INT appears to have no affect on Lunge? Iirc, they tested lunge naked, then with twilight gear on (INT +25), and got the same damage.

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That seems unlikely, since RUN isn't on Twilight. :P

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Originally Posted by Demon6324236

That seems unlikely, since RUN isn't on Twilight. :P

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Could have been /RUN.

Or I dreamt it. Or it was something completely different and not Lunge. Might explain why I couldn't find it in the RUN forums though >.>

In all honesty I only knew RUN wasn't on it cause I found it terrible that RUN isn't on the Reraise Gear, which seems kinda infinitely amazing for a tank job and horrible for it to miss out on.

On the BG testing pages, someone claims to have tested Lunge with 'all stats', though what they actually wrote is all stats apart from INT. Whether they tested INT and forgot to write it down, or whether they forgot to test INT, idk. As it happens, they tested it as PLD/RUN, but didn't use any Twilight gear. Though it could be possible that /RUN is affected differently than RUN/, just like Sneak Attack is modified differently for THF main.

However, the formula seems pretty rigid:

M for 1 Rune = 0.75
M for 2 Runes = 1.0
M for 3 Runes = 1.25

Lunge damage = Main hand weapon skill x M x number of runes x (1 + MAB/100)

People have suggested using sea torques for the relevant +skill for lunge, but skill falls way behind MAB. I would only suggest using the Sea Torque if inv space is an issue and you're going to use the torque to TP in anyway.

Abyssea would be a good place to test RUN, simply by not opting for stat enhancements, fighting something, then getting your enhancements.

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Originally Posted by Babekeke

I can't find the post now, but didn't someone say that INT appears to have no affect on Lunge? Iirc, they tested lunge naked, then with twilight gear on (INT +25), and got the same damage.

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Found the post. While it does show no stats are tied to it, the tests were done /RUN so that might invalidate them. However on the second page is a test for weapon skill affecting damage which also throws out some math showing how the damage in the JP video could calculate using the formula that you posted of:

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Main hand weapon skill x M x number of runes x (1 + MAB/100)

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I think all that considered it's fairly safe to say stats don't boost Lunge's damage.

Id have to agree with the
Lunge damage = Main hand weapon skill x M x number of runes x (1 + MAB/100)

Ive noticed this too lately when I was testing and came across my lunge dmg going up ALOT as my GS skill level raised. Then stacking 3 of the same rune enhance really improved it. Was putting out 900-1500 dmg on a lunge (If you use the elm the mob is weak to) Then have some MAB on and helps too.