Status Update on the New UI

Greetings everyone!

Apologies for the delay on a status update regarding the UI revamps that were mentioned some time ago. Last night Producer Akihiko Matsui commented on the current status, so I would like to share that message with you all.

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Originally Posted by Akihiko_Matsui

Hello,

I would like to inform you of the progress on the new UI for the Windows version. As we briefly touched upon in the past, implementation of the new UI is running behind schedule. The UI work is being dealt with separately from the creation of Seekers of Adoulin, so it’s not the case that the development team is getting caught up with working on the expansion. The reasons for the delay are mainly that in addition to the structural organization and features we had first thought of, there have been a lot of internal requests as well as request from players for new features to be added to make the UI even more user friendly.

In regards to the structural organization, the system was originally designed for a console such as the PS2, so we’ve been optimizing it so that each of the menu programs do not overuse memory. Due to this, we have been going deep into all of the menu features and performing adjustments so that the new UI will work. Currently, we have completed a good amount of the portions that can be realized with the current client, but there is still work left to be done on new menus for Seekers of Adoulin and "Play as a Monster".

In regards to the new features, this is not just about adding new menus with the new UI; this is also related to the fact that we are making feature improvements such as making mouse operation much smoother. The current UI has been optimized for using a controller, so you can think of it as we are spending time to revamp how it looks and the way it operates.

I’m am sure that there are some of you who watched the explanation of the UI structure, but using a portion of the UI (log window, menus, etc.) like an add-on will not work properly, so it’s actually quite difficult to release only the portions that were showed off at VanaFest. (It’s also very possible that the work difficulty would increase to make this happen.)

Unfortunately we will need a bit more time before we can organize all the features, finish all the fundamental feature improvement checks, and show it off on the Test Server. Realistically we are looking at summer at the earliest or fall if we include support in all languages.

With that said, I apologize for making you all wait longer, but we appreciate your understanding as we do our best to create a better and more user-friendly UI.

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Thanks for the update! I'm glad to hear that the new UI is still moving forward, but one quick question...

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Originally Posted by Camate

In regards to the structural organization, the system was originally designed for a console such as the PS2, so we’ve been optimizing it so that each of the menu programs do not overuse memory. Due to this, we have been going deep into all of the menu features and performing adjustments so that the new UI will work.

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I might be reading this the wrong way, but that sounds like PS2 limitations are still holding back the updated UI because you don't want the UI to use more memory than the PS2 has. Why would this be an issue when the new UI is going to be for the PC only?

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Originally Posted by Yinnyth

Thanks for the update! I'm glad to hear that the new UI is still moving forward, but one quick question...

I might be reading this the wrong way, but that sounds like PS2 limitations are still holding back the updated UI because you don't want the UI to use more memory than the PS2 has. Why would this be an issue when the new UI is going to be for the PC only?

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I was thinking the same thing. Does this mean that the new UI will also be implemented on the PS2 version?

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Originally Posted by FrankReynolds

I was thinking the same thing. Does this mean that the new UI will also be implemented on the PS2 version?

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Actually I read it as "the old base code for the PS2 was such a cluster f*k that in order for us to do this new UI, we need to completely gut it out so that it's not just a quick patch and instead would be something that would be more flexible and perhaps even extensible in the future. the demo that we show in vanafest was just a quick patch which is just a stupid idea. so, please give us more time to completely reramp the whole PC UI."

Might I ask how many developers are working on this ATM? It's coming down that the producer is the lead support representative, main developer AKA programmer, main concept designer and story writer.

It seems like this poor fellow has a lot under his belt then needs to be.

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Originally Posted by Yinnyth

Thanks for the update! I'm glad to hear that the new UI is still moving forward, but one quick question...

I might be reading this the wrong way, but that sounds like PS2 limitations are still holding back the updated UI because you don't want the UI to use more memory than the PS2 has. Why would this be an issue when the new UI is going to be for the PC only?

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My guess is they're using a universal compiler that takes all the code (mostly the same code) and compiles it for each system platform to save time and money. This way when they make a new build they don't have to recreate the same code for each platform. Unfortunately, because of this the PS2 version is probably holding things back. Do to the fact that they haven't really been supporting PS2 in USA for a while it means PS2 version is staying broken.

Just look at the last last update for example the frame rate issues. There are still several quest that can never be done on the (SUPPORTED) ps2 client. Game play and story line advancement is impossible on a PS2 without a PC/XBOX so I don't know why they even consider this an issue.

If they're going to continue support for PS2 they should at least fully test it because the client doesn't really work anymore even if it's still on the support list. Basically, all these things they're doing to keep PS2 alive aren't working and on top of that they're restricting the development.

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Originally Posted by FrankReynolds

I was thinking the same thing. Does this mean that the new UI will also be implemented on the PS2 version?

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New UI is PC only.

I'd imagine that because the game is built first for PS2 and then ported over to the other consoles, that they still have to work within the hardware confines of the PS2, even when working on PC exclusive features.

no where in there did he say PS2 limitations, he simple mentioned that it WAS designed to run on a system "Like the PS2". I see this as a much needed fix. Not that the old AI was bad, but optimizing it and hopefully fixing issues that we have been dealing with for years will make the game play more enjoyable. Example: Auto-sorting spells shouldn't auto sort ALL magic types, just the type you are currently on. Currently with how the UI is set up, if you auto-sort 1 type it auto-sorts them all. ;.; hopefully! the new UI will eliminate this and many other problems that are like it.

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Originally Posted by Rubicant82

no where in there did he say PS2 limitations, he simple mentioned that it WAS designed to run on a system "Like the PS2". I see this as a much needed fix. Not that the old AI was bad, but optimizing it and hopefully fixing issues that we have been dealing with for years will make the game play more enjoyable. Example: Auto-sorting spells shouldn't auto sort ALL magic types, just the type you are currently on. Currently with how the UI is set up, if you auto-sort 1 type it auto-sorts them all. ;.; hopefully! the new UI will eliminate this and many other problems that are like it.

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He also didn't say "fostering skillful play" or "balance" or "gag me with a spoon". I'm merely trying to clarify because the way things are stated, they could be interpreted in several ways and I would like to make certain that the PC's UI updates are not being held back by limitations imposed by the PS2. If this game survives long enough, PS2 support will eventually be dropped. It's a marvel that it hasn't happened already, but the game simply cannot move too far forward with these shackles around it.

Also, it's been about 3 years since I've ever typed this, but THERE IS NO 'H' IN WINDURST. ...sensitive topic for me...

*sigh*

Guys it's simple. The original client was programmed for PS2 then ported over to PC. Porting code from one platform to another radically different platform tends to be expensive and time consuming if done properly. SE obviously didn't do this right and kinda band-aided the code to make it work on PC, that's why you get some weird slow downs and the 29.9fps lock. Time moves on and coders who worked on one project move on to other projects, the base code for the PC client is rather old and may not be well documented.

So what he's saying is that in order to do a proper UI update their need to gut much of the internal PC client code and rework many things in order for it to function properly without tons of band-aids. This kind of work is insanely manpower intensive, your basically reverse engineering the old code and rewriting it at the same time.

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Originally Posted by saevel

*sigh*

Guys it's simple. The original client was programmed for PS2 then ported over to PC. Porting code from one platform to another radically different platform tends to be expensive and time consuming if done properly. SE obviously didn't do this right and kinda band-aided the code to make it work on PC, that's why you get some weird slow downs and the 29.9fps lock. Time moves on and coders who worked on one project move on to other projects, the base code for the PC client is rather old and may not be well documented.

So what he's saying is that in order to do a proper UI update their need to gut much of the internal PC client code and rework many things in order for it to function properly without tons of band-aids. This kind of work is insanely manpower intensive, your basically reverse engineering the old code and rewriting it at the same time.

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lol.... and people wonder why I left the IT field back when Vista hit the market.....

Basically, this post sums it up nicely. They have a ton of legacy crud in there that needs to be flushed out so they can catch and handle all the exceptions...and hopefully FIX the @#$@#$ client in the process.

....one can dream, right?

I didn't get any of that from what he said. It seems to me like he was saying that even though the UI won't be on the PS2, they still have to build things under the same restrictions more or less and that is a pain in the arse.