Changes to contest rules/policies

Hi,

Wife and I have been playing this game forever (me since the usa release, her since the xbox360 version usa release) and we both still have mad love for this game. However, the contest rules really screw us over and over and over, you guys really need to change the contest rules to allow 1 entry per PLAYONLINE account, not 1 per Square-Enix account. We only wanted 1 Security Token and because of that we had to merge our PlayOnline accounts into 1 Square-Enix account. So everytime there is a contest, we have to choose which one of us will enter. It's incredibly unfair, we both pay the monthly fee just like everyone else, yet one of us (almost always me) steps aside to let the other enter the online contests.

This problem has existed ever since the online mog bonanza, which was years ago and yet here we are again. I'm only posting this because we both want to enter the valentine's day contest (and every upcoming contest,) yet once again only my wife can enter. I know that you guys are probably doing this because of some RMT restriction or whatever your reasoning is, but it screws over long time paying customers. You think I wouldn't have loved to get the full body moogle outfit from a few contests ago? But nope, I wasn't allowed to enter... So wrong...

Thre's nothing unfair about it. you shouldn't have merged the accounts if you wanted to enter seperately.

Honestly, I would argue it's unfair for you to get two entries when I only get one. Most all contests are usually limited to "one per household" anyway.

Yes there is, Alhanelem.

Both are paying the full monthly fee to play the game. Both should be allowed to participate in the same events.

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Originally Posted by Mirage

Yes there is, Alhanelem.

Both are paying the full monthly fee to play the game. Both should be allowed to participate in the same events.

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Then both should have kept their own accounts and paid for them seperately. Accounts are not supposed to be shared between multiple people, whether they are married, brothers and sisters, friends, or aquaintances.

I'm curious to know why you decided to share a Square Enix account anyway.

But I agree that it should be per POL ID, not Square Enix ID.

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Originally Posted by Alhanelem

Then both should have kept their own accounts and paid for them seperately. Accounts are not supposed to be shared between multiple people, whether they are married, brothers and sisters, friends, or aquaintances.

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Perhaps you misunderstand the difference between SE and POL accounts. You see, they are different characters who can be logged in at the same time, they pay full membership prices for both accounts, as though they are entirely separate. It is not a different character on the same POL account, but an entirely different POL account all together. POL accounts can be tied to the same SE account, but they have very little benefit to doing so, in game, the interactions between the characters are no different than anyone else. The only real advantage I know of is that they share the same password, and that they share the satchel. Expansions, monthly fees, additional characters, all of that is tied to the POL account, but does not effect the SE account.

The problem here is that these rules are a '1 per SE account' restriction. Me and my best friend are on the same SE account, but only 1 of us can sign up for things, we both pay full memberships, bought every expansion for each account separately. Yet even though they are 2 different POL accounts, we are treated as though we are a single person, I find this wrong. Its not as though we can even send EX items between one another, that is a POL account feature with secondary characters on an account, but has nothing to do with SE accounts. So its not as though I would have an advantage over you, but rather, me, my friend, my GF, the OP and his wife, we would all be treated fairly.

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Perhaps you misunderstand the difference between SE and POL accounts. You see, they are different characters who can be logged in at the same time, they pay full membership prices for both accounts

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No, I understand the differences perfectly. However, a single SE account is still only intended for use by one person.

If they simply kept their POL accounts on individual SE accounts, they wouldn't have had this problem.

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Originally Posted by Alhanelem

Then both should have kept their own accounts and paid for them seperately. Accounts are not supposed to be shared between multiple people, whether they are married, brothers and sisters, friends, or aquaintances.

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Because at the time the tokens were released, contests up to that point were one per PlayOnline account. Those of us that merged accounts, like my husband and I, had no way of knowing the standard would change to one entry per Square-Enix account until the next contest came around after the tokens were established.

Edit: this is why the current policy is upsetting to most of us since once merged, they cannot be unmerged.

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Originally Posted by Alhanelem

If they simply kept their POL accounts on individual SE accounts, they wouldn't have had this problem.

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So why do you seem to have a problem with them fixing this issue? After all as you just said, were they never to have made their mandatory change, it would not be effecting us anyways.

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Originally Posted by Alhanelem

Then both should have kept their own accounts and paid for them seperately. Accounts are not supposed to be shared between multiple people, whether they are married, brothers and sisters, friends, or aquaintances.

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They could not have known that before, because it was not announced anywhere. SE gave no explanation of what an SE Account is or why people need one, only that they need one. And they already said why they did it, because they didn't want to pay for two security tokens, which is a perfectly valid reason if they live together and can share one.

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Originally Posted by Alhanelem

However, a single SE account is still only intended for use by one person.

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Why? Where does it say that or who said that? Because it certainly wasn't SE. Link me if you find anything to the contrary please, because I've never seen anything like that.

If they don't allow that (which they definitely should) then at least they should give an option to unlink SE accounts.

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Originally Posted by Alhanelem

Then both should have kept their own accounts and paid for them seperately. Accounts are not supposed to be shared between multiple people, whether they are married, brothers and sisters, friends, or aquaintances.

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Why not? Married people share just about everything else in their life, sometimes including bank accounts with real money. Sharing a MMO game account is probably one of the least significant things they share in their lives, so it was probably an entirely natural thing for them to link both POL accounts to the same SE account, seeing as it lead to easier management of both accounts.

Not only does this make sense to do for married couples, but also if you are a parent, paying for game access for several kids. There's no reason to prevent one of the linked accounts from participating in events when they have a perfectly fine reason to link them, other than being a completely square person without any ability to be flexible or understand other people's side of a story.

Contest should be available to every PoL account no matter how many are under one SE account. I have my mule and my main under the same SE ID and I too think it's pretty dumb I can only enter contests on one of them. It's not like I'm not paying for both, why not be able to enter on both?

and Analhelm please don't start your ridiculous tirades up again. You were just becoming bearable and I thought some of your previous posts had a snippet of merit again.

To answer the question, we got the security token (put our accounts under 1 SQEX acccount) the day it became available for purchase, WAY BEFORE they had any contests with that restriction. If we would have been told that we would have been limited in the contests, we would have never merged. We did what square said, get one to make our accounts more secure, didn't know it would screw us in the long run.

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Originally Posted by Vivik

Contest should be available to every PoL account no matter how many are under one SE account. I have my mule and my main under the same SE ID and I too think it's pretty dumb I can only enter contests on one of them. It's not like I'm not paying for both, why not be able to enter on both?

and Analhelm please don't start your ridiculous tirades up again. You were just becoming bearable and I thought some of your previous posts had a snippet of merit again.

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I haven't "started up ridiculous tirades."
You're being very rude at the moment, making this personal like that.

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We did what square said, get one to make our accounts more secure, didn't know it would screw us in the long run.

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Though it seems like an exaggeration to me to say you're "screwed" by not having 2 chances to get a moogle suit / insert random event trinket here, I would have to concede that there was no way you could have known ahead of time how it was going to be set up. I would find it reasonable in this case that you should be granted an exception to seperate the accounts.

SE granting exceptions? That's a good one.

We're more likely to see a global policy change than that.

You claimed that SE accounts are not intended to be shared between married couples, without having any official sources backing you up. This implies that you think you know something that others don't know.

I agree with the OP, something should be done about this policy even if it is to allow some accounts to unlink and create new ones

and Alhanelem really needs to stop speaking up with opposition on every thread, he goes into threads and speaks opposition on things he claims he doesn't oppose and he does it often, its as if he is trying to start these flame wars he claims he is not

Hello everyone,

I'd like to remind everyone to please refrain from making inflammatory comments towards others and off topic discussions. Such language and actions are considered a violation of the forum guidelines, and can result in the termination of your account.

Remember, everyone is entitled to their opinion. There is no need to make inflammatory comments towards other members that have opposing or different points of views or opinions. The same goes for those who feel the need to defend themselves against such comments, which is needless and futile. Such behavior is not constructive and only clutters the thread. If you have a problem with a post, please place the player on your ignore list and report the post if necessary.

Thank you.

-SQUARE ENIX MODERATOR

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Originally Posted by Lokithor

I gotta agree that I'm getting tired of Alhanelem +1 posting on every thread with his inevitable opposition to whatever the OP is saying.

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A agree of all the players this some players seem to poke their nose in everything. Things that shouldn't affect them directly. They still try to stop others from getting rewarded fairly. Like others have said each account cost the same monthly fees they pay it shouldn't be locked to what region they're in or how many FFXI acounts are attached to the SE management account. The limit should be per FFXI account not just SE account. These aren't mules on a FFXI account they are separate accounts under an main payment management system.

If the accounts are fully merged cut the for extra FFXI andFFXIV fees or something. Obviously SE wouldn't give up money so the policy is wrong. The policy cheats full account PAYING people who merged their accounts END OF DISCUSSION!

Alhanelem is fighting a losing argument!

The majority of players obviously disagree with him. It's difficult to tell if some people come here just to upset people or have an alternative agenda. Ether way a lot of players talking really bad bad/ignoring them because of the comments they make on these forums. Alhanelem really shouldn't try to defend this bad policy and screw with others who pay extra for the right to own multiple accounts. It just shows how rude and unsympathetic people are to others who pay money for as Alhanelem said "In game trinkets!" If those trinkets are so minor it shouldn't matter if everyone was allowed to win per FFXI account.

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Originally Posted by Sarick

stuff

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Perhaps you didn't read the GM's post above, but it's probably not a good idea to rekindle the flames. That's all I'm going to say.

I love how when I my posts are actually on topic they get deleted...

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Originally Posted by Sarick

The majority of players obviously disagree with him. It's difficult to tell if some people come here just to upset people or have an alternative agenda. Ether way a lot of players talking really bad bad/ignoring them because of the comments they make on these forums. Alhanelem really shouldn't try to defend this bad policy and screw with others who pay extra for the right to own multiple accounts. It just shows how rude and unsympathetic people are to others who pay money for as Alhanelem said "In game trinkets!" If those trinkets are so minor it shouldn't matter if everyone was allowed to win per FFXI account.

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What effort would be involved in changing the system so these trinkets can be equally obtained-- not just by me-- but by my mule accounts as well? Because I have several mule accounts all linked to the same SE account, and they're all me behind the computer. I respect that you're ok with me entering these contests several times even though I'm just one person and I'm paying virtually nothing for my entry.

My concern is less about my increased chances of victory, less about your ability to share your SE account with other people while having seperate chances of victory, and more about how much effort is involved in changing the system. To the extreme, is it worth 10 trillion man-hours of work so 1 couple who linked their POL accounts to the same SE account can each enter contests seperately?

Obviously, these changes would not take 10 trillion man-hours of work. That's a ridiculous number. But people talk about these issues as though they cost 0 man-hours of work which is an equally ridiculous number. How much money would you be willing to accept SE sinking in to this project of changing their system?

Don't get me wrong. I'm not saying the OP is wrong. They raise a very good point, and they are getting screwed by the system. But how do you fix this system in such a way that it:

1. Doesn't screw over legitimate users.
2. Doesn't allow people like me with multiple accounts to enter contests multiple times.
3. Doesn't cost more resources than it's worth.

It's a tough question to answer because someone is gonna get screwed. It's easy to assume the devs can make these changes with the push of a button, but even if they listen to you and make these changes, it will cost them time they could be using to do something else. Something I care about, for example. If you can drum up enough support, good for you. I haven't been able to drum up enough support for any of my ideas, so don't be offended when yours gets turned down. There's thousands of us playing this game, and we all have our own ideas for what the devs should be spending their time on.

From http://account.square-enix.com/agreement/us/#

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Terms & Conditions

1. Registered Users
Use of the Website or Services is limited to those satisfying the following conditions:
(a) You, whether an individual or legal entity, have completed SQUARE ENIX 's registration procedures and agree to be bound by the terms and conditions of this Agreement and any other guidelines, rules, and policies set by SQUARE ENIX including without limitation our Privacy Policy(http://www.square-enix.com/na/privacy/). If there are any discrepancies between this Agreement and any other guidelines, this Agreement will precede any other guidelines;
...
(g) You agree that your Square Enix Account is non-transferable and, therefore, may not be transferred to or used by anyone other than you.

2. Square Enix ID and Password
(a) The Registered User will be solely responsible for the use and maintenance of his or her Square Enix ID and password, which will provide the Registered User with access to a Square Enix Account. The Registered User agrees to keep all registered account information updated, current and secure. Changes to account information may be made here. You may not sub-license, transfer, sell or assign your Square Enix ID or password to a third party, or allow a third party to use your Square Enix ID or Square Enix Account in any manner. Any use of the Registered User's Square Enix ID and password, even in the event that a third party uses such Square Enix ID and password, will be considered made by the Registered User and he/she will be liable for all charges and costs incurred. Regardless of the Registered User's lack of negligence or willfulness, SQUARE ENIX will not be liable for any damages caused by a third party's use of the Registered User's Square Enix ID and password. If the Registered User has reason to believe that his or her Square Enix Account is no longer secure, or in the event of a loss, theft, or unauthorized disclosure or use of his or her Square Enix ID or password stored on the Services, the Registered User must promptly notify SQUARE ENIX of the problem at http://support.na.square-enix.com/main.php?la=1&id=496.

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While the quoted portions are only a small amount of the Square Enix Account Terms Of Use, I think they serve to make clear that when you make a SquareEnix account you do so as either an individual (1 person) or a single legal entity.

Either way, you have, in so doing, confirmed to SquareEnix that you are one entity, and that one entity is entitled to a single entry in such contests. This is true without regard to your awareness or ignorance of what message you conveyed to SquareEnix in registering multiple POL accounts to a single SE account.

The advantage to this is that you were indeed able to save some money, as SquareEnix allows a single entity to assign a single Security Token to multiple POL accounts. It is worth noting that under the Security Token Terms of Use:

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4. Once the Security Token is shipped to and received by you, you will assume sole ownership of, and be solely responsible for, the Security Token.

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(Security Token Terms of Use are available at the same URL as Square Enix Account Terms of Use.)

So, in short:
1) a single entity (one SquareEnix account) is allowed to use a single Security Token
2) a single entity (one SquareEnix account) is allowed to enter into certain contests once
3) SquareEnix previously measured 'a single entity' as a single POL account. Now, as per the SE Account Terms of Use, it can and does measure 'a single entity' as a single SE account.


I think it's pretty clear this is decided by SE, not by Tahngarthor, so talking about how Tahn is fighting a losing battle by stating what may be an unpopular view is incorrect. This is not Tahn's fight, and you can talk him down all you want but that changes nothing.

If you want to change things so that your two POL accounts are linked to two different SE accounts, the sole party that has the potential (if not actual) ability to assist you is SquareEnix, and to the end of making changes to your SE account status, you are better served by contacting SquareEnix at http://support.na.square-enix.com/co...hp?id=496&la=1 than discussing things here on the forum.



I hope this post is taken as it is intended, as informative rather than inflammatory, and that a speedy resolution to the issue that gave cause for this thread is achieved.

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Originally Posted by Yinnyth

What effort would be involved in changing the system so these trinkets can be equally obtained-- not just by me-- but by my mule accounts as well? Because I have several mule accounts all linked to the same SE account, and they're all me behind the computer. I respect that you're ok with me entering these contests several times even though I'm just one person and I'm paying virtually nothing for my entry.

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You pay real money for each subscribed account. This game isn't free the contest aren't free. Even the so called free stuff trinkets aren't free. If you buy an item like a music CD and it includes in game content that isn't free. If you attend an event that gives away in game prizes that still isn't free even if you enter free. Why, because the game is subscription based.

Want to know how the accounts are separated? When I get a bill every month each of my accounts is billed separately. They the accounts aren't actually merged in game. They're only linked to a management system. These accounts get billed the same amount and not all items can't be transferred like main account mules. So even if I am one entity I pay for multiple separate accounts and each of those accounts should be allowed equal benefits.

We pay for the subscriptions, we pay for the expansions, we paid for the token. People here who agree that the policy is fine either don't maintain multiple accounts or don't want players who pay for multiple accounts to benefit from them. It's like having a limitation on you that you're being treated like you only own one account when your paying for multiples. The problem is the management system. Each account should be treated equally otherwise, they should let people separate them. Then get rid of the multiple account management issues they're constantly causing.

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Originally Posted by Yinnyth

My concern is less about my increased chances of victory, less about your ability to share your SE account with other people while having seperate chances of victory, and more about how much effort is involved in changing the system. To the extreme, is it worth 10 trillion man-hours of work so 1 couple who linked their POL accounts to the same SE account can each enter contests seperately?

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Originally Posted by Yinnyth

Obviously, these changes would not take 10 trillion man-hours of work. That's a ridiculous number.

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I agree with this, the problem is the SE account is being used to manage contest not the character account. The contest themselves should be maintained inside the game world per account. When they use that web management page it treats the accounts as one paying entity even though each account is billed independently at full subscription rate.

As for me flaming, I never called anyone a name (though I'd like to sometimes) in the topic.

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Originally Posted by Yinnyth

1. Doesn't screw over legitimate users.

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Unless it lowers the chance of others winning who are legitimate paying subscribers its screwing over people who pay FULL subscriptions for unique characters. These items can't be transferred to other accounts so that account deserves rights to have the trinkets. Gil or transferable items is a different beast.

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Originally Posted by Yinnyth

2. Doesn't allow people like me with multiple accounts to enter contests multiple times.

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Why should this matter they are paying for each independently, I can log on and play both characters at the same time even though they are in the same management account. I pay a full fee for each account. The managment system is broken here because it's treating accounts like independent MULES. I wouldn't be paying for multiple accounts if you could only log on one at a time that's what the little content ID's are for.

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Originally Posted by Yinnyth

3. Doesn't cost more resources than it's worth.

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How is it going to cost resources? Unless I'm mistaken any in game generated item is a few simple bytes of data that can be copied over and over. The only limits are the data space they are stored in. The only real cost of the contest is managing/distributing the items.

It comes down to the RARE-EX items that can't be traded, not gil or stuff players can sell off. These things aren't going to break the game even if they're awesome because the character still has to be able to use them. They'll take up inventory space and can't be transferred or sold to other accounts.

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Originally Posted by Volkai

The advantage to this is that you were indeed able to save some money, as SquareEnix allows a single entity to assign a single Security Token to multiple POL accounts. It is worth noting that under the Security Token Terms of Use: (Security Token Terms of Use are available at the same URL as Square Enix Account Terms of Use.)

So, in short:
1) a single entity (one SquareEnix account) is allowed to use a single Security Token
2) a single entity (one SquareEnix account) is allowed to enter into certain contests once
3) SquareEnix previously measured 'a single entity' as a single POL account. Now, as per the SE Account Terms of Use, it can and does measure 'a single entity' as a single SE account.

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These policies are created by people who may not even play the game. They're basically created to cover legal issues if they are to be sued. It's not like these contest are going to be faked dollar bills or illegal items if each character account is given the same paying opportunity.

It's just a policy that can be changed not something written into infinity. It's like the Tommy boy quote about guarantees on the back of boxes. "Hey, if you want me to take a dump in a box and mark it guaranteed, I will. I got spare time." This is what policies really are just crap to protect someones arse.

They can easily change the policy but choose not to do it. It's there because some legal figure head wrote it who probably doesn't even play or care about the the contest distribution.

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Originally Posted by Volkai

I think it's pretty clear this is decided by SE, not by Tahngarthor, so talking about how Tahn is fighting a losing battle by stating what may be an unpopular view is incorrect. This is not Tahn's fight, and you can talk him down all you want but that changes nothing.

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The losing battle was his argument. It wasn't changing the views of people who disagree with him. It definitely isn't his fight but it becomes an issue when he defends an unpopular point of view by attempting to collapse the topic trolling it.

It's like telling people who have problems with the policy "go to hell I'm fine with it screwing over others!" and then mocking them for being upset about it. It's a very unsavory situation thats insulting to people who feel they've been cheated.

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Originally Posted by Volkai

If you want to change things so that your two POL accounts are linked to two different SE accounts, the sole party that has the potential (if not actual) ability to assist you is SquareEnix, and to the end of making changes to your SE account status, you are better served by contacting SquareEnix at http://support.na.square-enix.com/co...hp?id=496&la=1 than discussing things here on the forum.

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Separating the accounts, LOL. I have never ever even once resolved an issue easily through SE support over the phone, chat or email. I doubt these paying customers will be given the opportunity to separate their accounts. It's just the way things are.

People who support bad polices need to get hit by them so they can receive what they dish out. Only then will they understand how much they're wronging others when it actually effects them negatively. I hope they come crying on here on the forums when it happens, then It'll be sweet tears of joy to everyone they've trolled.

as inconvenient as it is, you might want to call their support center, under special circumstances they have separated POL accounts from SE accounts so they could be registered to other accounts, just saying this because I don't think they will make exceptions to their contest rules nor change them for you.

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Originally Posted by wildsprite

as inconvenient as it is, you might want to call their support center, under special circumstances they have separated POL accounts from SE accounts so they could be registered to other accounts, just saying this because I don't think they will make exceptions to their contest rules nor change them for you.

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Good luck with that. There is so much red tape at the support center it's almost impossible to cut through and get decent help. When I called about my account not accepting a new credit card they kept blaming the bank. When it was their servers being so bogged down they couldn't handle the request. The bank called them directly. The bank representative thought we was talking to a scripted robot after getting off the support call.

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Originally Posted by Sarick

Good luck with that. There is so much red tape at the support center it's almost impossible to cut through and get decent help. When I called about my account not accepting a new credit card they kept blaming the bank. When it was their servers being so bogged down they couldn't handle the request. The bank called them directly. The bank representative thought we was talking to a scripted robot after getting off the support call.

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credit card issues are something else entirely and often lead to problems when the place you try to use the card is a shady source such as click and buy or something else, SE does not accept credit cards directly, they use an outside source regardless of what their site says it has always been that way.

as for un-linking your POL account from your SE account, they will need to verify some information once you explain the issue but that shouldn't be anything like dealing with a credit card at all

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Originally Posted by Sarick

How is it going to cost resources? Unless I'm mistaken any in game generated item is a few simple bytes of data that can be copied over and over. The only limits are the data space they are stored in. The only real cost of the contest is managing/distributing the items.

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I'm not saying the increased bandwidth of more player entries is the cost. Nor am I saying the increased number of pixels that need to be distributed to winners is the cost. The cost is the effort that SE would need to put towards changing a system they already have in place. What I was saying is that this change will cost some amount of man-hours that we can only speculate over how much it is, yet everyone is talking about it as though it will take no time, no effort, no money whatsoever.

As you later point out, attempting to get your accounts split to new SE accounts involves going through a lot of red tape. As with any large company, even the simplest actions can require comical amounts of work. So how much are these changes worth? Would you still support them if it required all updates to be pushed back an entire month?

regardless of red tape under certain circumstances they will unlink a POL account from a SE account, they have even gone so far as to state this in these very forums, it is likely the only move you can make if you want to be able to enter contests on both of your POL accounts

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Originally Posted by Yinnyth

I'm not saying the increased bandwidth of more player entries is the cost. Nor am I saying the increased number of pixels that need to be distributed to winners is the cost. The cost is the effort that SE would need to put towards changing a system they already have in place. What I was saying is that this change will cost some amount of man-hours that we can only speculate over how much it is, yet everyone is talking about it as though it will take no time, no effort, no money whatsoever.

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I think I pointed this out in post you quoted :P "The only real cost of the contest is managing/distributing the items." Still if a person is paying a subscription for a service that isn't free those efforts should be included with the package. If not its considered not supported. I could understand if the service was FREE but it's a paid service. When people joined the management system they wasn't made aware that it would restrict character in game opportunities every time they decided to make a contest.

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Originally Posted by Yinnyth

As you later point out, attempting to get your accounts split to new SE accounts involves going through a lot of red tape. As with any large company, even the simplest actions can require comical amounts of work. So how much are these changes worth? Would you still support them if it required all updates to be pushed back an entire month?

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I doubt it would need a lot of work. If it does it'd be because they designed the system wrong at the start to make it difficult to transfer. It's been done before on others. The red tape is actually getting someone willing to help. When I wanted a password reset the phone rep said it was impossible to recover the password or reset it. This was caused by SE spamming those orchestra events to the POL and main email accounts. It made the Icon blink constantly until I was able to delete the mail off the account!

On the forums I posted about it and someone mentioned the account management had a mail reset option. I went in there and FIXED the problem. The support options failed when the public knew more about a fix then the paid staff. The staff was incredibly rude about it when I ask to talk to someone else.

The issue I'm having here is to get both accounts equal access contest forums etc. We/I shouldn't need to separate character accounts into different management accounts just to access a contest for each of them. What set me off the most is some players support bad policy in a selfish way to try and block fairness changes. Contest policies are major complaints. Just like the one time recovery policy that is very restrictive.

As for updates being pushed back a month, I doubt the support staff, legal team, the web designer and the programmer are all the same person. I can see where you're coming from in a coordination standpoint but really setting the updates back a full month for a contest. The management system is just that it should be used to pay for the accounts. Frankly, I don't know why some unlock-able trinkets can't be unlocked in game using moogle codes.

I get it, things where done wrong the 1st round. Saying that it'll take a month to fix and set back the updates a full month implys you don't have much faith in the support/development team. I guess we can agree on a few things. ;D

I honestly don't believe it would cost us an entire month worth of updates to change this, I'm only trying to point out that it will cost them some amount of resources which could be spent on other things, and I would rather have those other things. Even the most staunch supporters of this change would rethink their position if the cost were high enough. My assuming that it will take a month of work is only slightly more ludicrous than assuming it will take 0 hours of work.

My biggest criticism regarding this is how few people it will affect. Most people who have multiple POL accounts on one SE account are just like me (one person, multiple accounts), so it's completely fair that I can't enter contests several times. There are a handful of people like the OP who are actually getting screwed by this. Any time they put into fixing this problem for a dozen people is time that could be spent doing things which benefit thousands of people instead.

Now if I'm wrong and it really would cost them 0 hours to change, by all means, change it. Heck, even if it eats an entire day of work, do it. Or if they've got idle hands with nothing better to do, sure, give them this as a project. If none of those are the case, then my opinion is that it's a little bit overkill to make a few people happy. Sorry if I sound like a jerk for saying it, but we've all got different things we want from the game and a limited staff who can only fulfill a certain amount of tasks.

The way I see it:
First you have people who bought multiple game registration codes for the main purpose of cheating the system and participate in competitions multiple times.I doubt these persons would have linked their POL accounts to the same SE account, out of fear/paranoia of being detected by SE.

Then you have power-gamers who have multiple POL accounts in order to play several characters at once. I know I am just making guesses now, but these players do not strike me as the kind of players who are heavily into creative competitions, and even if they were, just handing in two contributions doesn't mean they'll win with any of them, as they also need to actually be good.

Thirdly, you have people who combine their POL accounts for management purposes, where several people in the same household just want one single place to pay for their expenses.

I don't think there is a very large overlap between these groups, so I don't think it would have a very big negative impact on competitions if they allowed each POL account to participate, rather than each SE account.

In either cases, cheaters will be able to cheat if they really want to. The difference in cheating-difficulty is very small no matter which system they go for.

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Originally Posted by Mirage

Then you have power-gamers who have multiple POL accounts in order to play several characters at once. I know I am just making guesses now, but these players do not strike me as the kind of players who are heavily into creative competitions, and even if they were, just handing in two contributions doesn't mean they'll win with any of them, as they also need to actually be good.

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I 100% agree with this. I for one would only care if the items on the 2nd 3rd account would be very beneficial to the character. Simple trinkets being restricted is silly, they won't hurt anyone. Powerful items being redistricted make it so only one of your accounts has a chance at getting an item. It's highly unlikely that 2 accounts would win at the same time.

A contest could be easily rigged if done wrong "like first fifty accounts to answer the same question." If one guy has 50 accounts to sends in the answer on each account seconds after its posted the contest is isn't a contest. One player screws over others by being greedy. The policy issue is to limit people from abusing bad contest setups and to exclude people who pay for extra character accounts.

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Originally Posted by Mirage

Thirdly, you have people who combine their POL accounts for management purposes, where several people in the same household just want one single place to pay for their expenses.

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This is what the management system was supposed to be, originally this was the sole purpose of the playonline account. Playonline was meant to handle multiple online services. They then decided to move to another management system that managed other managed accounts. I didn't like linking my accounts and moving them to begin with.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Mirage

I don't think there is a very large overlap between these groups, so I don't think it would have a very big negative impact on competitions if they allowed each POL account to participate, rather than each SE account.

In either cases, cheaters will be able to cheat if they really want to. The difference in cheating-difficulty is very small no matter which system they go for.

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This is why the policy is bad. other then the chance of being rigged by a silly setup it's pointless to set restrictions when everyone pays for each account independently. As you stated if they want to cheat they'll do it anyway and it's unlikely they'll win multiple times (with the exception of bad contest design).

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Originally Posted by Yinnyth

My biggest criticism regarding this is how few people it will affect. Most people who have multiple POL accounts on one SE account are just like me (one person, multiple accounts), so it's completely fair that I can't enter contests several times. There are a handful of people like the OP who are actually getting screwed by this.

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Yinnyth, I think you're missing the point. When you pay for a separate account its not free it's an independent character. It's like purchasing two expensive seat tickets in an airplane and the company decides that you can't get a second meal even though you paid FULL PRICE for the second seat.

It's more or less like one person bought multiple seats and the company decided that because all of them where bought by the same guy on one credit card only one can get the in flight meal even if there are people in them from his family.

There are several contest that have this practice but these limits are more for tangible items not immaterial trinkets or game content that has no real money value. It isn't like giving away these items to people who are lucky enough to win them will break the game.

You're accounts are being billed independently, they're like seat tickets. You can play/consume them independently so they should be treated independently. If you give up your rights for that ticket you're being cheated for it no matter how you put it. Even if it's just a silly restrictive contest policy you should at least recognize it's designed so you're extra accounts are being excluded when they shouldn't need to be.