Dual Wield Richardet's +2 and Richardet's or Richardet's +1

For those wondering if it is possible to obtain both of these axes at the same time I'm currently rocking the Richardet's +2 in my main hand and a Richardet's in my off hand. I really love using this setup in Abyssea with the RR & VV Atmas. Even with the low dmg on these axes you can still do 120-150+ dmg per critical hit. The rate of these axes going off 2-4 and 2-3 times happens quite a bit. It can be dangerous though at times since you can easily out dmg your pet but snarl comes in handy for that. ^^

I also have 2x Guichard's +2 w/ STR&Attack that I rarely use unless I feel like doing big rampage dmg in a pt. Hoping to get my EVA axes done once the servers come back online for some better nm solo'ing.

I was in the process of finishing up my second -10% pdt axe when the servers went down, with the next update I'm going to grind out Guttler and off hand one of the 2-4 strike axes, assuming I don't have Kclub yet. Or I might just stay at 96 and use Oclub lol. I've had 8/8 club merits since before the lv updates, <3 that thing.

I tried to get an Oclub but gave up after a month of killing Loo. How many kills did it take u before dropping?

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Originally Posted by Leet

For those wondering if it is possible to obtain both of these axes at the same time I'm currently rocking the Richardet's +2 in my main hand and a Richardet's in my off hand. I really love using this setup in Abyssea with the RR & VV Atmas. Even with the low dmg on these axes you can still do 120-150+ dmg per critical hit. The rate of these axes going off 2-4 and 2-3 times happens quite a bit. It can be dangerous though at times since you can easily out dmg your pet but snarl comes in handy for that. ^^

I also have 2x Guichard's +2 w/ STR&Attack that I rarely use unless I feel like doing big rampage dmg in a pt. Hoping to get my EVA axes done once the servers come back online for some better nm solo'ing.

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I truly admire you if you grinded out both those axes.I have my plus 2 and i swore i'd never do it again lol. However, I only did the 2-4 hit axe to compliment Farsha. With 4/5 BST plus2 pets have a hard time keeping hate in beginning of the fight but usually after 2nd snarl i don't get hate back unless i don't snarl after every ws, which i always do. My buddy has his pet eva axes +2, i only did -pdt axe +2 x2. I'm not completely sold on the eva axes, but he swears by them. Actually, i jus dont wanna do them even though they are really handy.;)

I feel like my second Richardet's went a bit faster since I already knew where to go for the kills. But out of all the mobs I still hate the puks the most. My first Richardet's I had only killed 1/2 of my apkallu's before SE switched it to Imp's kills. I would imagine i'd still be on my first axe if we still had to kill those dumb birds haha ;/

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Originally Posted by Leet

I tried to get an Oclub but gave up after a month of killing Loo. How many kills did it take u before dropping?

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Went 3/3 for a couple friends and myself, currently at about 5/8. Last three times of camping him I killed one PH and he spawned. xD I think LoO loves me.

Nice! ^^
Wish I was that lucky

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Originally Posted by Leet

I feel like my second Richardet's went a bit faster since I already knew where to go for the kills. But out of all the mobs I still hate the puks the most. My first Richardet's I had only killed 1/2 of my apkallu's before SE switched it to Imp's kills. I would imagine i'd still be on my first axe if we still had to kill those dumb birds haha ;/

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The Double Attack Axe is actually much better option for main hand. Particularly in Abyss. I'm not going to go into details or maths but it's pretty clear cut. Basically as BST has access to more and more DA/TA (we can get 25% DA/TA from gear alone) the utility of the multi hit axes goes down.

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Originally Posted by blowfin

The Double Attack Axe is actually much better option for main hand. Particularly in Abyss. I'm not going to go into details or maths but it's pretty clear cut. Basically as BST has access to more and more DA/TA (we can get 25% DA/TA from gear alone) the utility of the multi hit axes goes down.

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I personally just like the fact I can smack something up to 7x and do a great deal of dmg in those 7 hits. I guess you could say It's the fun factor for me which is why I got both of these axes in the first place. I have tried different axe setups with my vv atma and ya the DA goes off once in a while but from having used both a richardet's +2 and richardet's at the same time it seems like I can do more dmg and get tp faster. It's not uncommon for me to see 700+ dmg per attack when both axes are hitting their max amount of hits. Even when i just had a richardet's +2 and a punisher I was still doing alot of dmg. I'm not saying it's the best setup and I'm sure these axes will be outdated with the next update but for now It's whats working for me and that's all that matters. =P

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Originally Posted by Leet

It's the fun factor for me which is why I got both of these axes in the first place. It's whats working for me and that's all that matters. =P

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Can't argue with that man, rock it~

I Love Beastmaster. Wish people would stop overlooking us, but whatev. It's those kind of comments, that describe what the game is all about and what makes it truly worth it.

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I'm not saying it's the best setup and I'm sure these axes will be outdated with the next update but for now It's whats working for me and that's all that matters.

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It's outdated now if you're getting towards the pointy end of DD builds for BST. I know that's why you've done it that way, or you wouldn't have 2 of the multi hit axes. So I was just wanting to let you know that there's better approaches out there. You're free to do anything you want in game, i'm just trying to share some information on what our optimal builds are. Personally I use a STR/Pet Attack for main hand and OA2-3 in off hand. I'm working towards Farsha for main hand and am probably going to roll back my OA2-3 to turn it into a DA Axe, once I have Farsha at level 85.

It's mainly something to keep in mind for the future as you get a bit more DA/TA gear. When you get Apocalypse atma then it's pretty much a no brainer to start heading down the DA Axe path. The problem with the multi hit axes is that Double Attack and Triple Attack actually get calculated BEFORE the mutli hit axes get calculated. So if your DA goes off on a hand with the multi hit axe, the multi hit isn't going to proc. Does that make sense?

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Originally Posted by Kaeoni

Can't argue with that man, rock it~

I Love Beastmaster. Wish people would stop overlooking us, but whatev. It's those kind of comments, that describe what the game is all about and what makes it truly worth it.

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Personally ppl stopped over looking me when I started just about 1 hitting VT mobs with Rampage as a BST dual wielding -ppdt axes lol. Feels pretty awesome when your doing more dmg than the alliance. xD

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Originally Posted by blowfin

It's mainly something to keep in mind for the future as you get a bit more DA/TA gear. When you get Apocalypse atma then it's pretty much a no brainer to start heading down the DA Axe path. The problem with the multi hit axes is that Double Attack and Triple Attack actually get calculated BEFORE the mutli hit axes get calculated. So if your DA goes off on a hand with the multi hit axe, the multi hit isn't going to proc. Does that make sense?

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rep the DA & TA gear for more str, att or whatever to increase your overall DoT.

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Originally Posted by Alukat

rep the DA & TA gear for more str, att or whatever to increase your overall DoT.

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No, just get the DA axe instead of the multi-hit one. The trials are actually much easier.

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Originally Posted by blowfin

No, just get the DA axe instead of the multi-hit one. The trials are actually much easier.

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lols. 10% DA would never beat 2-4 + 2-3 attack axes if u calculate it on 100 delays.

example 10% DA on 100 delay = 220 hits (u dual wield 2 axes)

2-4 axe (assumed 40/30/20/10% proc) = 200 hits
2-3 axe (assumed 50/30/20% proc on wiki is correct) = 170 hits

now 200 hits + 170 hits = 370 hits within same amount of delays with 10% DA, with which u makes 220 hits (and with 2 DA axes u are at 19% DA = 238 hits)

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Originally Posted by Alukat

lols. 10% DA would never beat 2-4 + 2-3 attack axes if u calculate it on 100 delays.

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You're ignoring base damage. The DA axe has almost double the damage of the multi hit.

I'm not talking about just 10% DA too. So please read the entire thread, you missed the post where I first explained everything and as a result have made a post that's missed the point entirely.

Trust me, it's been tested and proven that the DA axe is a better option than the multi hit axes as you get more DA/TA. BST can get around 28% DA and 18% TA with Atmas and gear. At 10% DA you're right though, multi hit is still not a bad option. If you don't have anywhere near 10% DA from gear before, then yeah, don't bother yet. But Double Attack and Triple Attack are stats that you really want to focus on getting, If you're remotely serious about having a decent DD build.

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Originally Posted by Alukat

lols. 10% DA would never beat 2-4 + 2-3 attack axes if u calculate it on 100 delays.

example 10% DA on 100 delay = 220 hits (u dual wield 2 axes)

2-4 axe (assumed 40/30/20/10% proc) = 200 hits
2-3 axe (assumed 50/30/20% proc on wiki is correct) = 170 hits

now 200 hits + 170 hits = 370 hits within same amount of delays with 10% DA, with which u makes 220 hits (and with 2 DA axes u are at 19% DA = 238 hits)

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If you have 20% da from gear (including the axe) and use atma of the apocalypse, a OA4 axe will NOT compete w/ a DA axe. Is this simple enough? i am going to write it out in crayon...

You will not find enough STR, DEX, or ATTACK gear to compete at all w/ the level of double attack, because they are almost all the same pieces for bst anyway: and they are not a big enough piece of the tp-phase damage.
Ferine Armor +2 Set is 4/5 of the best tp set you can make.

If you think you can make a better tp build, please provide alternate equips that will make up the difference. (here, Ideal set for reference)
You'll want to replace all those double attack and triple attack pieces for something better, because they will detract from the effectiveness of your OA4x axes.

Epona's ring is 3% Double attack and 3% triple attack. FYI 3% triple attack is like 2x the same amount of DA as far as damage improvement goes. So you could say Epona's ring is like 9% double attack all by itself. ferine feet +2 are another 3%, atheling mantle 3%, twilight belt 2%. brutal earring 5% A single off-hand DA axe is 10% (keeping space for high damage mainhand)

Thats equal to 32% double attack in gear for bst. I don't remember exactly where... but between 45% and 51% double attack is where the Occasionally attacks 4x axe is eclipsed and can never compete again vs double attack.
You can remove the double attack to favor your OA4x axes, but you will get nothing comparable in gear.

if you use atma of the apocalypse thats 15% ta.... equal to 30% DA you are way over this threashold
If you use Atma of the lion (common in bst -pdt build) you get 10% TA ... equal to 20% DA and you are over this threshhold.
If you use Voracious violet you have another 5% and you are close to the threshhold.
If you have ANY other da or ta atma (there are several) w/ voracious violet, you are over the threshhold.
DA will be very competitive w/ an OA4x offhand axe in Any circumstance. If you add atma, it leaves OA4x axes behind completely.
If you put 2x DA axes on, then you reach the threshhold even faster, but you lose on base damage for WS, even though base damage will be much higher than an OAx axe.

okok let everyone look the same way and let everyone wear the same gear ^^
seems like something unique isnt wanted in this game ^^

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Originally Posted by Alukat

okok let everyone look the same way and let everyone wear the same gear ^^
seems like something unique isnt wanted in this game ^^

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You're right. Unique, incorrect opinions about what is the best way to gear yourself aren't generally wanted.

If all you're doing it playing for fun then sure, do whatever you want. I for one though, tend to get more enjoyment out of this game when I know i'm making informed choices about my gear.

The question is, do you want your BST to perform well for yourself and groups, or do you want to be intentionally mediocre? I have a feeling it's the former, and we're only trying to help you do that. Nobody is saying you're gimp or an idiot or anything like that, we're just trying to encourage you in the right direction. :D

well, seems like i need to extend the math a bit

OCC 2-4 axe

1 hit = 40%
2 hit = 30% equals 30% DA
3 hit = 20% equals 40% DA
4 hit = 10% equals 30% DA

alltogether that is 100% DA (of course not a true 100% DA because the attacks are staged)

OCC 2-3 attacks

1 hit = 50%
2 hit = 30% equals 30% DA
3 hit = 20% equals 40% DA

that would be 70% DA

now u take the mid of 100% and 70% and then u are at 85% DA

and now u can use some other gear / atma because u don't need to go for DA & TA all the time.
u can add some more haste/str/dex/att/store tp gear and the same with atmas (or regain).

Edit: i would appreciate if u do the calc the way i did it, because it has a better overview, thx

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Originally Posted by Alukat

okok let everyone look the same way and let everyone wear the same gear ^^
seems like something unique isnt wanted in this game ^^

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its not like that at all. We've both said you can play how you like. However, you argued that OA4x axes were always better. Its not true.

I'm sure you have some pride in the accomplishment, I know I would. but don't let that blind you to possibilities. Gear and play however you like, but dont' be decieved into thinking its the best just because you put such good effort into it.

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Originally Posted by Xilk

its not like that at all. We've both said you can play how you like. However, you argued that OA4x axes were always better. Its not true.

I'm sure you have some pride in the accomplishment, I know I would. but don't let that blind you to possibilities. Gear and play however you like, but dont' be decieved into thinking its the best just because you put such good effort into it.

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same to u ;)

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Originally Posted by Alukat

well, seems like i need to extend the math a bit

OCC 2-4 axe

1 hit = 40%
2 hit = 30% equals 30% DA
3 hit = 20% equals 40% DA
4 hit = 10% equals 30% DA

alltogether that is 100% DA (of course not a true 100% DA because the attacks are staged)

OCC 2-3 attacks

1 hit = 50%
2 hit = 30% equals 30% DA
3 hit = 20% equals 40% DA

that would be 70% DA

now u take the mid of 100% and 70% and then u are at 85% DA

and now u can use some other gear / atma because u don't need to go for DA & TA all the time.
u can add some more haste/str/dex/att/store tp gear and the same with atmas (or regain).

Edit: i would appreciate if u do the calc the way i did it, because it has a better overview, thx

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You have to average your actual results from each hand meaning to compare you would have at best 85% increase to damage, but you are based on weapons that are already 1/2 powered.

the point of multihit is to get tp as fast as possible and spam WS. your WS damage will be less for the weaker base damage of the weapon, your melee hits will be less for the weaker base damage of the weapon. OAX axes only affect that 1 axe. DA and TA affect both hands to start with. You are not going to WS frequently enough to make up the difference.

What gear do you think you are going to use to improve upon the damage? Haste is No1 priority for tp phase. bst have a few options for capping haste, but I already listed the most efficient way. What are you going to put in feet, ring, ear, back, belt, slots to remove the double attack (because that will impede your OAX axes) that will improve your melee damage anywhere close to compete w/ a double attack axe?

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Originally Posted by Alukat

same to u ;)

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nvm, I'm done wasting my time w/ that.

Basically, what Xilk said. Even before you get to 20% DA on your gear some sort of Farsha/DA axe combination is better, it's hands down the best Axe combo for BST really. This has been proven several times by several people.

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If you have 20% da from gear (including the axe) and use atma of the apocalypse, a OA4 axe will NOT compete w/ a DA axe. Is this simple enough?

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The multi hit axes give you nowhere near the rates on multi hit that you've shown by the way, those figures are incorrect and way too high.

Using 2 x Multi hit axes is just gimping yourself further as your Rampages are going to be terribly weak.

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Originally Posted by blowfin

Basically, what Xilk said. Even before you get to 20% DA on your gear some sort of Farsha/DA axe combination is better, it's hands down the best Axe combo for BST really. This has been proven several times by several people.

The multi hit axes give you nowhere near the rates on multi hit that you've shown by the way, those figures are incorrect and way too high.

Using 2 x Multi hit axes is just gimping yourself further as your Rampages are going to be terribly weak.

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I'm 1/2 tempted to offhand twlight knife instead. I don't think its quite as good, but it certainly looks like more fun, and I'm still farming shinryu anyway.

3% quadruple attack is comparable to 9% double attack, so a little less there.. the attack is much lower, but so is the delay. dps comes lower than the double attack axe too... but sometimes it will absorb tp as well, which might catch it up a bit from tp gain.dagger skill is lower though... oh well, a fun thought.