Magic and Ability List Sorting Reset

As some of you have discovered since trying out the version update, the sorting for the magic and ability list was reset. Here's why that happened.

During the version update, we edited the internal aspects of magic data in order to prepare for the below:

• Geomancy and other new magic categories/Addition of new abilities
• Expansion for existing magic and abilities

• Why the list was reset
  The order of spells aren't directly tied to the actual spell information and is indirectly referenced via several other types of data. With that said, the main reason for this is due to the fact that major changes to the spell data file will make it incompatible with the spell order data file and it became necessary to reset the data.
  
  We looked into the possibility of converting the data, but this would be very difficult under the current system, so it was decided to reset them.
  
  
• Saving Spell Order on the Server
  If you need to re-install, it's possible to use data that has been saved to the server, much like macros. However, if there are internal changes, such as in this case, the data itself may no longer be compatible and rendered useless.
  
  
• Reviewing Spell Order
  As we did with blue magic spells previously, we will continue to implement revamps for the sorting of other spells. Our plan for implementation would be after this expansion has been completed. We will not reorder spells before the expansion, since we would have to do so again after.

We apologize for announcing this after the fact and will do our best to make sure that we convey this information earlier.

Thanks for the heads up Camate :) While some people may be mildly annoyed they had to re-sort their spells, after reading this I dont think they'd have an issue.

A few suggestions for when you do re-arrange the white magic spell list (at expansion time)
* Can any new white magic spells all be listed witht he rest of the white magic instead of the current situation where all the gain/boost/etc spells are placed right at the bottom, below /blm spells? (maybe move the boost/gain spells below/above the barspells?)
* Move addle below paralyze/slow/silence
* Move reraise 2 and 3 to be with reraise 1
* Move raise 3 to be with raise 1 and 2
* Move erase/esuna/sacrifice to bottom of the -na list
* Move diaga below dia 2
* Combine tele-vahzl, the recall spells and the other tele-spells together (this will then make all the bar-spells together)

I agree. If the changes you performed allows you to more easily make spells of the same type be grouped together when auto-sorting, that would be nice.

However, perhaps this will be fixed by a feature of the new UI, where we might be able to auto-sort spells based on a number of arguments, such as spell type, element, level, etc., instead of just manual or one type of auto sorting.

In either case, thanks for giving us a heads up. It's not a very big inconvenience to reorder the spell list, after all.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Mayoyama

A few suggestions for when you do re-arrange the white magic spell list (at expansion time)

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Don't forget to have the Regen spells together, and have Cura (most people forget them when not using them for waking your party up...) spells next to the Curaga spells.

Did anyone else notice that Sandstorm is not with the rest of the storm spells?

On my list at least, it's sandstorm, then phalanx 1 & 2, flash, regen 1 2 and 3, maybe another couple of spells before the rest of the storm spells.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Camate

As some of you have discovered since trying out the version update, the sorting for the magic and ability list was reset.

...

We apologize for announcing this after the fact and will do our best to make sure that we convey this information earlier.

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Frankly, this was unacceptable, your explanation fails to explain why existing spell lists needed to be resorted at all, many of us MANUALLY do it and for us your explanation has no apparent relevance.

The game's archaic UI is bad enough, the spell list has always been craptastic and the only way to make it half usable was to spend a LOT of time manually grouping spells into a usable structure.

I only discovered this idiotic change after I'd started a solo fight on my RDM with an NM, which is NOT the time to discover that one's spell list is entirely screwed up and you can't find anything.

Yes, I DO cast a lot of spells off the list. The game's archaic macro system makes it necessary, not least because of the God aweful UI LAG .. that your failed fix has left as horrendous as ever .. makes rapid spell casting at times a highly hit-and-miss affair .. perhaps I'm in a small minority that doesn't cheat by using a well known third party game hack which provides bot-level macroing among other cheats and hacks.

The fact that this was a conscious decision, taken no doubt some time ago, and not an 'on the spur of the moment' things makes it even more unacceptable that you failed to give advance notice.

I understand the reasoning behind it and i have no problem persay with the actual reset of the spell order. That being said the real issue i have as with most people is the sheer lack of consideration to tell us in advance... i really do hope they follow through with this promise of more advance notice... it really wouldn't ruin any surprises or kill any news stories from an update to say a week before the update occurs *ALERT*Spelllist is being reset with this patch please be sure to note down your spell order so that you can easily reorganize your spells after the patch!

If you need a point of reference to manually sort your spells, how did you manage to sort them the first time?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Kraggy

Yes, I DO cast a lot of spells off the list.

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Me too. I rarely use macros for spells at all. More or less only when I want to constantly be casting it for skillupses. I use no cheats either. Not even the win-doomer or whatever it was called, so yeah, this is an inconvenience indeed!

What makes it more fantastic, is that just recently, I managed to accidentally (only explanation I can think of) auto-sort one of my characters list with no recent backupses... that was horrible... and now I need to re-sort them for both of my main characters, huh... awesome.

I don't think there's much to be sad about, though. I understand how badly the system is built, and sometimes there will be times like this and it is what it is. As long as it doesn't become an ongoing trend, I'm not going to care much. Just gotta put some time away and make things sorted.

That said, thank you for posting an explanation at least. That's a lot more than I could've imagined to get.


Blubb.

Although they did not mention it ahead of time, the fact you were surprised during a fight with a NM on your RDM by the change shows you didnt at least read the update notes? More people really should read these things, it really doesnt take as long and I am sure many people will find many useful things in there they normally dont find out til months afterwards on happenstance. You could probably read them while your update downloads in fact, I know i do and im kinda a slow reader.

I agree with Trumpy... every single update they have ever released has had minor changes, additions, etc that were not advertised before the update. They do, however, appear on the update notes. SE has no obligation to announce/vet every detail on this forum before they launch an update. Frankly, Kraggy, your "unacceptable" rant is unacceptable.

well thats nice to know Camate. I always hate when i find my blu spell list reset. Cause i keep them in a very specific order. And it always gets reset randomly when i log in. Least this time i no why.

Is their any way you could add a sort feature to blu magic (in addition to auto and manual) that would sort all currently set blu spells to the top of the list? That would help save a lot of time when have to reorganize everything.

I dunno about you others, but I always read the release notes when version updates happen.

I thought the explanation was reasonable enough. They needed to change a lot of the information related to the current spell list in order to make it possible to add new spells, and in the process, keeping the existing manual-sort data in place was hard to do (because, as they admitted, the old data structure was a real mess), so it was just reset instead. Hopefully, the new spell data is made in a way that is easier to deal with if they need to make changes in the future.

Sucks that we have to reorder the list, but it's not exactly the end of the world.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Kraggy

Frankly, this was unacceptable, your explanation fails to explain why existing spell lists needed to be resorted at all, many of us MANUALLY do it and for us your explanation has no apparent relevance.

Something something
QQ
Something

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Their explanation was more than "acceptable". In case you didnt bother to read properly:

A) In order to add new spells/abilities (especially for the 2 new jobs being implemented) they had to reset the lists and adjust the addresses so there was enough space for future expansion (unless you dont like new spells/abilities?)

B) As others have said, SE have no obligation to announce absolutely everything that will happen in an update. Some things are more last-minute "o, we better quickly do X so that we can later do Y" and thus may not be able to be announced ahead of time.

C) They also explained that they tried to convert the data so that it wouldnt mess with people's manually sorted lists but given the way in which the game is programmed (and all the tangled spagetti code slapped on over 10 years) they couldnt do it.

D) Lastly, you can take comfort in knowing your spell list wont be reset again until after the expansion is out (and thus you have been forewarned about a possible future reset!!)

/rant off

Heh, I didn't even remember reading it in the update notes, which I always do read, but after looking back, I remembered I did... well, sort of. I think I was distracted by something(s) at the time, which is probably why it didn't stick, but in any case, the entry about it is rather poorly done. It's easy to miss, and looks like a side-note (as in, not something as major as it actually is).

The fact that they posted about this is probably a proof of a lot of people missing that little note, so I wouldn't go and assume people just don't read them at all (which no doubt true in lots of cases).


Blubb.