New Graphics Stabilization optioin

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Originally Posted by NOC_EU

A new graphics stabilization option has been added to the Etc. tab of the FINAL FANTASY XI Config program.

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So what dose this do? I am guessing it will make the game graphics better but I would like someone from SE to say what it/will do please.

Thank you.

That sounds a lot like removal of the "camera shake" when the camera is close to terrain obstructions.

I'm gonna test it out right now.

-edit-
Well, if it is meant to do that, it doesn't seem to be working as intended. Maybe it's something else.

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Originally Posted by Mirage

That sounds a lot like removal of the "camera shake" when the camera is close to terrain obstructions.

I'm gonna test it out right now.

-edit-
Well, if it is meant to do that, it doesn't seem to be working as intended. Maybe it's something else.

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lol Knowing SE, they most likely missed up and it just deletes your system files when you enable it....

It might be stabilizing things a bit, but I am still able to make the camera shake without putting too much effort into it.

According to the help text from the FFXI config.

"Enabling this option increases the likelihood that certain issues that arise with specific graphics cards will be avoided."

So possibly a fix for the issues for Nvidia cards?? Could be neat. I checked it, but haven't really noticed much as of yet, but I never really had issues with driver crashes and so on, just the usual weird lag around conflux ect. If anyone had those issues try turning on weather/shadows and see if the crashes persist.

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Originally Posted by Thegreatmonkey

So what dose this do?

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Probably limits framerates since they said they were looking into something like that to make Fishing not be impossible for people with really good computers.

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Originally Posted by Economizer

Probably limits framerates since they said they were looking into something like that to make Fishing not be impossible for people with really good computers.

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Framerates are already limited to 29.9 FPS due to SE's sh!tty DX8 engine. I'll put some effort into seeing what the "new shiny" does system wise, my guess is it has to due with how certain graphics functions are called. Please remember that FFXI is a DX8 game and most modern cards are now DX11. DX8 itself is no longer directly supported on any version of Windows XP or higher, instead DX9 emulates DX8 behavior. This can create all sorts of wonky behavior at the graphics driver level.

Seriously doubt DX8 has anything to do with the 30fps limit.

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Originally Posted by Caliana

According to the help text from the FFXI config.

"Enabling this option increases the likelihood that certain issues that arise with specific graphics cards will be avoided."

So possibly a fix for the issues for Nvidia cards?? Could be neat. I checked it, but haven't really noticed much as of yet, but I never really had issues with driver crashes and so on, just the usual weird lag around conflux ect. If anyone had those issues try turning on weather/shadows and see if the crashes persist.

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It does seem to fix the nVidia problems, yes. I tested Mijin Gakure and Merit Point Up last night. Before, my system would crash on either. Now, I get no crash.

Thanks S-E. Now I can put my old PC back in the closet and play FFXI on my newest machine.

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Originally Posted by Mirage

Seriously doubt DX8 has anything to do with the 30fps limit.

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No the 29.9fps limit (its not 30) has to do with their sh!tty engine. They somehow got it in their head that the PC and PS2 should share experiences and programmed the PC engine to operate at NTSC speeds. Many of the artifacts and problems with the PC engine of FFXI is that it's not only DX8 but poorly coded DX8.

Also are you setting background resolution to the same as overlay and thus letting NVidia do all the AA, or are we still using the old 2x supersampling method?

So then we agree. 29.437894729872394732 limit is from SE's engine, not DX8 :p.

I actually wouldn't have minded that fps limit too much though, if I could actually crank the image quality up to over 9000 without dropping below 29.whatever fps. Which I can't. Because everything is rendered so inefficiently.

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Originally Posted by Mirage

So then we agree. 29.437894729872394732 limit is from SE's engine, not DX8 :p.

I actually wouldn't have minded that fps limit too much though, if I could actually crank the image quality up to over 9000 without dropping below 29.whatever fps. Which I can't. Because everything is rendered so inefficiently.

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You want your IQ Drastically increased???? and using nvidia video card, please make sure you have at least 1.6gb-2gb of available video ram before proceeding, ok do this:

Download the latest nvidia inspector, Under Antialiasing compability, use this following hex code(From sonic 3d-racing):

0x00411245

If your using sli mode, use this hex coe under SLI combatiblity bits:

0x02404001(Most of the time it splits power from both gpus, however at given times, it will use more on both gpus)

Ok go to Antialiasing - mode: Override any application setting

Antialiasing - setting 32XS (Combined 2Xss + 8XMs)

Antialiasing - Transparency Multisampling - Enabled

Antialiasing - Transparency Supersampling - 8X Sparse Grid Supersampling

Set your Anisotropic filtering mode to user-defined/off
set to X16
Negative lod bias - Clamp

Set Antialiasing - sli aa to enabled if your used two gpus.
Sli rendering mode - AFR2

If your using 1920X1200 resolution monitor, you can downsample your monitor, please take special precautions before doing this, Go to this site FIRST before doing anything:

http://hardforum.com/showthread.php?t=1616639

Making an nvidia profile for this game, still can not force aa for this game, been like this since forever, so dont even try, wont work.

Make sure at least 1.6gb of video ram or higher before proceeding.

The above IQ settings, will make the game alot cleaner then theses ps3 and xbox 360 games can ever do. Ps3 uses geforce 7 based gpu and does not have aa supersampling or sparsegrid, theses takes alot of vram hit.

Some of theses ps3 games looks great, need strong pc, but far as overall IQ, this is where pc wins.


LOL Some say we need FFXIV textures, If I was playing in that manner within the same IQ settings I am using, IT will bury my gtx 690 to its royal good for nothing knees and absolutely beg for mercy.

FFXIV needs strong gpu or gpus to make it run good within high settings, I had one time, 3 upper class 5XXX ati series, and finally got 60 fps, and yes I made sure if all 3 gpus where at 100% usage and it was, disabled two gpus, ran only 1, went down to what 20 fps, so yes all 3 are using to its fullest, ffxiv looks great, but I still prefer this game over 14 anyday.

Tried that out, and it actually works. Making my GPU perform antialiasing on the game now. I couldn't put it at as high settings as you suggested because I only have a GTX460 1GB, but it is still looking a lot better.

There is one problem though. As character modes fade in and out, there are sometimes (often, in crowded areas) big white squares popping up for a split second. Any idea what could be causing this?

@QuickRelease21

Ok that kinda worked, what vsync / tipple buffering options should we be using? I have two GTX580 hydro coppers and a 1920x1080@120hz monitor. The game's attempt to run @29.9fps is causing all sorts of hell with shaking.

i am wondering if my fps would still drop to 8-10~ during crowded fights or certain areas if we had 60 fps limit. admittedly, i dont know much about how this stuff works but it gives me the impression that the decrease in fps i have been experiencing is proportinate to our low fps limit. i have i5-2450m and geforce gt 630m with 2 gb vram on my laptop and i don't think my fps should ever drop that much in a 10 years old game. is the fact that this game was very poorly ported to PC the real problem here (maybe there was not much SE could do, idk) or simply the low fps limit?

some graphics tweaking here and there really helps but it is for aesthetics and we are still suffering from low fps and trying to make the game look better makes it even worse ><

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Originally Posted by Vinedrai

i am wondering if my fps would still drop to 8-10~ during crowded fights or certain areas if we had 60 fps limit. admittedly, i dont know much about how this stuff works but it gives me the impression that the decrease in fps i have been experiencing is proportinate to our low fps limit. i have i5-2450m and geforce gt 630m with 2 gb vram on my laptop and i don't think my fps should ever drop that much in a 10 years old game. is the fact that this game was very poorly ported to PC the real problem here (maybe there was not much SE could do, idk) or simply the low fps limit?

some graphics tweaking here and there really helps but it is for aesthetics and we are still suffering from low fps and trying to make the game look better makes it even worse ><

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It's the DX8 emulation that's killing you, it's horribly inefficient. Mine will bottom out sometimes and neither by CPU nor my GPU's are anywhere near capacity.

The FPS limit has more to do with stuttering and jerking. Being forced to under 30fps makes it hell on any PC. 29.9 fps doesn't divide evenly into 60 so you end up with stuttered frames hence the dragging and chopping.

I am actually experiencing some strange performance issues while using this antialiasing workaround, or whatever you'd call it. Even though the sensors are showing that no part of my GPU is anywhere near running at 100%, and neither are any of my CPU cores, I still get fps drops here and there, which I wouldn't be getting before.

I can be at just 15% CPU usage, 40% GPU usage, below 50% VRAM and usage, below 10% memory bandwidth usage, and still get drops down to 22 fps. Any ideas on what could be causing this?

Then there is still the issue with a lot of flickering white squares and rectangles as objects fade into view.

@ Saevel


Quote: "Ok that kinda worked, what vsync / tipple buffering options should we be using? I have two GTX580 hydro coppers and a 1920x1080@120hz monitor. The game's attempt to run @29.9fps is causing all sorts of hell with shaking."


I ALWAYS, ALWAYS have vsync off to provide the best possible frame rate, Especially enabling at incredible aa,etc settings.

If its at shitty ass settings, shitty ass resolution, then turn on vsync to prevent tearing while playing a game.

Far as sli is concerned, I been trying to find a way to get sli to work at both gpu usage to 100%, and I can not, there is a list down of hex codes you can try within the inspector program, but the one I mentioned above, most of the time it tries to slip itself even, like 1st gpu uses 36%, the other is like 64%, and so on, I have seen at times both gpus over 60-70%, making it over 100% usage together, so which is a good sign.


Please also from what I understand, make sure the X multipler of the sparsegrid matches with the msaa, so if its X4 sparsegrid, set it to X4 msaa, but I dont use thoses, I use the hybrid aa's, supersampling + msaa and along with sparsegrid for superior image quality.

Heres another note, Far as supersampling aa quality is concerned, pictures cant do any justice, you serious have to know what to look for while a particular game is in motion and yes, ati supersampling has VASTLY superior quality over the same exact setting nvidia's, How do I know, I owned both ati and nvidia for a very long time. I like nvidia drivers much better but thats just personal preference.

On ati cards, when you enable supersampling aa, the game will automatically take into effect, while on nvidia, it will never, never happen, even if you make a profile for it, its been like this since what? way before geforce 7,8 time.


And to end all of this, Ati supersampling aa @ X4 looks a lil better then nvidia's X16 supersampling AA, what does this mean in return? Less vram and peformance hit on the gpu, Thats one thing I love about ati card, you can get away with a so-so ati card and jack down the supersampling to X4 and will look better then X16 nvidia's ssaa.

but the image quality I am using now, its better then X16 ssaa on ati card, but not by much.

@ Mirage

Quote: "I am actually experiencing some strange performance issues while using this antialiasing workaround, or whatever you'd call it. Even though the sensors are showing that no part of my GPU is anywhere near running at 100%, and neither are any of my CPU cores, I still get fps drops here and there, which I wouldn't be getting before.

I can be at just 15% CPU usage, 40% GPU usage, below 50% VRAM and usage, below 10% memory bandwidth usage, and still get drops down to 22 fps. Any ideas on what could be causing this?

Then there is still the issue with a lot of flickering white squares and rectangles as objects fade into view."


Keep your vsync off at all times when doing insane settings, this provide the best overall possible frame rate.

Cant always maintain 29 fps you know, it wont happen.

Less cpu usage, of course, while on incredible aa,etc settings, its all mostly gpu bound, the gpu is mostly doing all the work, no high real time physics going on like todays games, so no worries about cpu usage at this moment as the game is at so insanely high aa settings.

Also, If your doing the downsampling the 1920X1200 resolution, and using the iq I am using, Turn off your shadows, the game's fps will go down BIG BIG time,and there seems to be a problem here, I think while I was observing all of this, I think I was out of vram, it was hitting over 2gb of vram, I was out of vram, I turned it off, all good, please be extremely careful.

Also turn off shadows, then log off rather then cntr+alt+del, so it will save the info when you come back on, saves time of having to turn off the shadows while the game is moving 1 fps.


And to all of the readers on this forum reading this, I am using the gtx 690 overclocked, gtx 590 will do fine too, just be careful when overclocking that card, the mosfet is extremely weak, and definite fine tuning the card is a must, please research on the gtx 590 overclocking before doing anything, this card is for highly expert tuners only, gtx 590 is not to be played around with.

Mirage

Turn of Anisotropic filtering, that fix's a ton of the little glitch's. This game just doesn't like it at all. I'm still testing things out as is. I still get the occasional white box / texture glitch without it on but the number has been drastically reduced.

@Quick
Without V-Sync I get insanely stupid stuttering. I usually use Adaptive-Vsync to solve that issue but SE's 29.9 FPS internal limit is screwing with that. Turning it off doesn't solve the FPS suddenly slipping to low numbers and only gives me a headache lol.

I'm on two overclocked water cooled GTX 580s, graphics power isn't lacking in the slightest.

Thanks, I'll try that.

I also wouldn't want to run without vsync. As far as I understand it, I can't turn off vsync for just the game if I run it in windowed mode, it would also be turned off for the rest of my desktop. I notice screen tearing very easily so I would want to avoid that.

-edit-

Turning off anisotropic filtering didn't lessen the whte square flickering for me :<. It seems to be happening as often as it did before.

Good evening!

The graphics stabilization option we recently added was implemented as a countermeasure for the force termination issues that would occur when using a GeForce GTX600 series graphics cards. If this problem is happening, you can prevent the force termination error by checking the box.

man if it was just the one card you'd think they could have put that instead of ceertain graphics cards in the discription

Yeah, it would be nice if the release notes included a list over video cards known to be affected. However, the most important thing is that they have solved the problem, the rest is just details.

Hopefully, anyway. I wouldn't know because I didn't have it in the first place.

actually it fits in with the whole "not telling anyone how anything works inthe game" vibe they usually operate with

Specifying the cards affects may prove tedious if they anticipate the issue will persist as more cards develop. For instance, some Nvidias use Optimus, which disables the good GPU and uses integrated graphics instead. That's a continuing series, so the list would be indefinite.

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Originally Posted by Trumpy

man if it was just the one card you'd think they could have put that instead of ceertain graphics cards in the discription

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It's not one card. It's the whole series. 610, 650, 660, Ti etc. etc.

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Originally Posted by saevel

No the 29.9fps limit (its not 30) has to do with their sh!tty engine. They somehow got it in their head that the PC and PS2 should share experiences and programmed the PC engine to operate at NTSC speeds. Many of the artifacts and problems with the PC engine of FFXI is that it's not only DX8 but poorly coded DX8.

Also are you setting background resolution to the same as overlay and thus letting NVidia do all the AA, or are we still using the old 2x supersampling method?

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you also forget, you can actually still play this game on a telephone modem (I think anything 28.8 and over). It runs like crap, but it DOES run. And I'm pretty sure any FPS rate over that level would kill telephone support.

Nonetheless, SUPER pumpped about this, I haven't been able to play more than 120 (usually about 60) minutes without a boot in over a year. I hope my nVidia 9400GT is one of the "fixed" cards. I actually took up WoW-not because it's any good, just because they actually let me play.

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Originally Posted by Glamdring

you also forget, you can actually still play this game on a telephone modem (I think anything 28.8 and over). It runs like crap, but it DOES run. And I'm pretty sure any FPS rate over that level would kill telephone support.

Nonetheless, SUPER pumpped about this, I haven't been able to play more than 120 (usually about 60) minutes without a boot in over a year. I hope my nVidia 9400GT is one of the "fixed" cards. I actually took up WoW-not because it's any good, just because they actually let me play.

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You have no idea what your talking about ... zero .. zilch.

FPS has nothing to do with connection speed, you could technically do 120 FPS on a 9600 line, or 1 FPS on a 100Mbps connection. SE's server is not sending you "Frames", their sending you positional and event data. Your computer renders whatever is in memory at 29.9 FPS max, the frequency of that memory's update has nothing to do with it.

Glamdring: Ever noticed how your framerate doesn't drop when you R0? At that point, you have a 0b/s connection between you and the servers, yet framerate remains unaffected. That should tell you that the two are completely unrelated.

I am just shocked till this day, they have never implemented a: AA option or af option for that matter, and probably will never ever see it.

Also I tried the superVCCA64 8x8 aa on nvidia inspector + 8Xsparsegrid aa, looks excellent but the gpu usage fluctuates so much it is unbearable @ 2475X1536 resolution(1920X1200/Downsampled) so I revert back to 1920X1200 resolution, sometimes it moves ok but it still fluctuates like crazy and the fps cant keep up, I think it has to do with the hexcode for the aa.

Some aa hexcode will work better performance then others, I have tried many, sonic 3d-racing one works best for this game.

Supervcaa64 8x8 by itself works well but the iq is alright, sorrie, I am all about iq not about performance, I want every speck of pixel to be perfectly clean.

but 1 fps, forget it.

Just have to mess around more with the hex codes, I am trying to figure out which hex codes works best with supervcaa64 8x8 + 8Xssaa, I'll report later, Looks great though, ffxi has never looked so much cleaner, man without this aa and af, the game looks so terrible, actually not just ffxi, mainly all 3d games looks terrible without proper aa and af is turned on, yuck yuck, no aa, no play.


Also in regards about AA Qualities and how they work, observe this site very closely:


http://www.dahlsys.com/misc/antialias/index.html

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Originally Posted by FrankReynolds

It's not one card. It's the whole series. 610, 650, 660, Ti etc. etc.

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The 500-series, at least on my system, were also affected. The 570 would hard lock, and the 560Ti would give a TDR error and crash to desktop.

This is a very welcome fix. However, I posted the first 600-series TDR topic back in April, and S-E never acknowledged the problem at all. We had to wait for 5 months without word before suddenly getting a fix. It would be nice if we'd get some communication; "we're working on it" or something like that.

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Originally Posted by Safiyyah

The 500-series, at least on my system, were also affected. The 570 would hard lock, and the 560Ti would give a TDR error and crash to desktop.

This is a very welcome fix. However, I posted the first 600-series TDR topic back in April, and S-E never acknowledged the problem at all. We had to wait for 5 months without word before suddenly getting a fix. It would be nice if we'd get some communication; "we're working on it" or something like that.

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I wouldn't be surprised at all to find out that these fixes are actually just hand me downs from the FFXIV staff. Which would explain why they don't know about them very far in advance.

"Dear FFXI staff,
hey guys, here are some issues we fixed in FFXIV, but they apply to FFXI too so feel free to update your code as well. Have fun ;) " ~signed: FFXIV Driver suppor team~

I checked this option just to see what would happen and if it would improve random lag issues I had. In the process of having to reinstall FFXI because of some error that occurred afterwards. Beware.

If you go to regedit:

Hkey_Local_machine>Software>Wow6432node>PlayonlineUS>SqaureEnix>FinalFantasyXI

Then from here, from 0001 to 0004, all thoses must be the exact same in order for the Nvidia inspector
AA to kick in, otherwise nope. so if your using 1920X1200 res monitor and dont want to downsample:

Modify the decimal:

0001: 1920
0002: 1200
0003: 1920
0004: 1200

If you dont do this, the aa WILL NOT kick in, make sure its properly set before logging in.

even if it was not just one specific card, any hint of the features purpose could have been beneficial.

Before they implemented this, I had to play the game with the lowest resolution, lowest animation framerate settings, no shadows, no weather effects, etc etc. So much nicer to hop on my dad's souped up pc and turn on all the "bells and whistles" I must say. ^^;

Now with this option setting in the config I can set the resolution higher, have weather, increase the animation framerate to max, turn on foot prints, and not have my framerate drop to 5. I still can't have shadow effects though.

I have an ATI graphics card that is not on FFXI's compatibility list.

It would seem this feature addresses graphic cards like mine, making the game more functional but not optimal like a compatible card does.

superVCAA64X4_12 along with 8Xsparsegrid works great but the superVCAA64X8_8 along with X8sparsegrid aa
98% of the time, there seems to be major issues with the gpu keeping it stable, I think it has nothing to do with the vram,
I think its perhaps more driver related while using this aa feature.

Antialiasing - setting 32XS (Combined 2Xss + 8XMs) + 8XSGSSAA = better overall IQ over superVCAA64X6_12 + X8SGSSAA.


So all in all, if your going to downsample your 1920X1200 resolution, and using an nvidia card and want best possible IQ
and gpu running stable, use this instead:


Antialiasing - setting 32XS (Combined 2Xss + 8XMs) + 8XSGSSAA

^ this one works the best for me, especially while in downsample mode.


Also make sure, while in downsample mode, shut off your shadows, I think theres another driver problem or gpu related
issue while shadows are turned on while on downsample mode, the game doesnt even want to move in peace,
I could be out of vram, I have a gtx690(4gb total vram/2gb vram per gpu still = 2gb vram).

I know doesnt make sence but thats how it is on video cards. my card total is 4gb vram but still 2gb cause each gpu has its own vram.

some say in dual gpu applications, less gpu vram is taken, absolutely not, I checked with msi afterburner and to observe
how much gpu video ram usage in certain game applications, if its says 1.2gb vram usage on two gpu's, and you disable one gpu and then re-try application, it will say same thing, 1.2gb vram. ^^

oh and also, you might want to consider switching to displayport or dvi-d if it has one on the monitor as its going way beyond the dvi-i capabilities.

Its working here, any iq difference? ergh not really other then more vram hit and performance, maybe the reason I dont see that much of a difference because the going beyond the DVI-I bandwidth limitations...

Although some seen difference inbetween, I have also tried this downsampling method on lineage2, some stuff on objects,etc there is some difference, in some cases it can appear to be worse(even while in motion).

I am shifting back to 1920X1200 on L2 cause all the icons, words,etc are all smaller and kinda more blurrier while in downsample mode, this mode is excellent for testing purposes only, all in all, I would stick with the native resolution what the monitor was made for originally, its good to try out, I need to check more games on this method, there seems to be a slight gain in iq but the difference in vram is staggering, in lineage2, with the aa settings(SuperVCCA64X8_8 + 8XSGSSAA) within nvidia inspector, in one location in l2, low 1gb vram usage(1920X1200), used the custom resolution(2475X1536), over 1.6bvram, so be absolutely aware of the vram hit before proceeding.

Try it out, it may work out for some people, depending on game though, even with well trained eyes and know what to look for, ergh, I cant tell alot of difference, just a slight, some have seen major improvement and some have not, try it out.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Okipuit

Good evening!

The graphics stabilization option we recently added was implemented as a countermeasure for the force termination issues that would occur when using a GeForce GTX600 series graphics cards. If this problem is happening, you can prevent the force termination error by checking the box.

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It does not work very well. It still crashes but as much as before. I mean it is a big improvement but the issue is not fixed.

Aslo my older desktop had ffxi setup by setting the background resolution before the update of the options thing. I made the background resolution bigger though reg edit. It is something like 2.5 times higher then the highest config setting and there is no drop under 29.9 fps. On my new laptop with the 680 M it lags a lot on the highest setting. (So my desktop is set 2.5 times higher for background vs what is on my laptop) My 680 m fps drops easy in any type of crowd setting like lower juneo or legion. I went back and took the graphics stabilization off and turned off shadow and weather because the game is more playable like that.

question to community:
is it best to make a new thread? I fear this post will go unnoticed by SE reps.