Hello! I'm coming back to FFXI from a two or three year hiatus. It'll be about 8 hours before the updating is done, so I'm having fun thinking of what to do when I get back in.
I have rdm75,nin40,sch40,whm38,blm37 as my main jobs that I had leveled (I quit before the level cap increased, before abyssea or however you call it).
Still, I'm curious ... what would y'all say is the best single Job/Sub combination to be the most self-sufficient in as many aspects of gameplay as possible? Not just fighting, but also traveling and things of that nature.
/whm49 is the only way to be self-sufficient with all of the teleports (very attractive to me)
/blm is the only way to have warp (unless there is a new way for infinite "go home" ability?)
So, what do y'all think is the best single combination? I'm thinking of keeping my RDM as my main (I solo mostly) and seeing how much I can solo as RDM99/WHM49.
The only thing I would be missing would be a "warp" feature/spell (unless there is a new way to do that which won't run out of "charges" or uses?)
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12-08-2012, 09:05 AMEiceWhat is the most self-sufficient single Job/Subjob combination (all gameplay)?
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12-08-2012, 10:13 AMkatz
Dont know how long you been away but people rarely use teleports to get about these days. Abyssea maws make it possible to get to most places or voidwatch officers.
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12-08-2012, 10:25 AMEice
I started July 25 of 2006. I stopped sometime in 2008, about midway through the year. I was gone long before abyssea. Pardon my ignorance, what's an abyssea maw and how does that make it possible to get to most places?
If maws are the new travel thing to where I can go almost anywhere with them, I'll probably just stay rdm99/nin49 (when I get there).
I was reading a lot of different topics and now I'm wondering ... is FFXI more solo-friendly now than it was before? When I left you could solo -some- things, but you still had to be careful walking around some parts of the world because you could still die fairly easily.
If it's more solo-friendly, that kind of negates my hypothetical haha! -
12-08-2012, 11:15 AMAlpheus
Abyssea Maws are basically WotG Maws except they lead to the Abyssea Add on areas. Since you unlock direct warps to the maws you also unlock direct warps to the areas they are located in.
Since VW is basically a series of fights rather than entrances to areas, it also offers direct warps to areas in which those fights take place. -
12-08-2012, 11:28 AMEiceI'm sorry, could you clarify that a little? I bought WotG, but I didn't actually play any of it before I quit. I know there are "maws" or something, but I have no idea what they are for and never entered one.Quote:
Originally Posted by Alpheus
What do you mean "you unlock direct warps to the maws"? Do you mean you get abilities that work like the teleport and warp spells that allow you to go to those areas whenever you want regardless of job?
Also, what is "VW" and is "direct warps" the same idea?
For instance, if I'm standing in the middle of Valkurm ... could I "direct warp" to one of the maws or something? How many different maws are there/are they close to cities?
I know you can raise a chocobo, so I assume it won't be too hard to use that once you've gotten to a maw? -
12-08-2012, 11:50 AMMirage
No. You can warp from cities to the entrances to various abyssea and voidwatch areas, but not back via the same method.
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12-08-2012, 12:48 PMAlpheus
Apologies VW = Voidwatch a endgame event that was added recently-ish.
By direct warps I meant that for VW you pop NMs in zones and SE has added zone warps for ease of access to these zones. -
12-08-2012, 01:23 PMMotenten
Abyssea:
An NPC in each city can warp you to the maw for each of the 9 zones for the cost of 200 cruor (a sort of currency you get by doing stuff in Abyssea or Voidwatch; 200 cruor is cheap). You gain access to them by visiting the maw manually once and getting a cutscene. The locations of the maws are:
La Theine, near the zone to Ronfaure
Konschat, near the zone to Gustaberg
Tahrongi, near the zone to Sarutabaruta
Buburimu, a bit east of the outpost
Valkurm, on the beach east of Selbina
Jugner, a bit east of the outpost
North Gustaberg, upper level, north/west end
South Gustaberg, south end
Xarcabard, a bit east of the telepoint
Since several of those are near outposts, even though you can't directly go from the maw back to a city, you can usually warp back to your home nation. So if you set your homepoint in Jeuno, between warps, outposts and maw teleports, you can get to most common areas fairly quickly.
Voidwatch:
Voidwatch expands that further, providing about a half dozen teleport points per 'region' (eg: zones for the Windurst mob path, zones for the Bastok mob path, etc), with the regions being: Windurst, Bastok, San d'Oria, Jeuno, Zilart, TAU, COP. You gain access to these as you progress through the storyline. In this case, the NPC will teleport you for 1000 cruor.
And as a final bonus, the cost of Warp Scrolls was dropped dramatically, now only costing 10 conquest points instead of 750 or whatever it was before, so there's no reason not to always have a warp scroll on you.
Altogether, it's very easy to quickly get to most places in the game now. It's still useful to have whm or blm, though, for Recall- teleports and Retrace (lvl 53-55 for these things) to quickly get to the past, though admittedly there's not a lot you need to go to the past for nowadays.
As for the original question, rdm would be good, as would dnc and nin/dnc. Nin gets its 25% movement at night, dnc gets Chocobo Jig for faster movement, all of them get good sneak/invis options, rdm and dnc can heal well, nin/dnc can heal adequately and gets better shadows, etc. Aside from maybe bst, those three seem the best general "I can get anywhere I need and get whatever I need done, done" jobs, though they're hardly the only options, just what came to mind most easily. -
12-08-2012, 03:54 PMArcon
Like in your previous thread, I think you put a little too much merit on warping/teleing. It is still useful at times, but like many people pointed out, there are alternatives. There are few places left that teleing will get you to faster than VW warps or Horst warps, and as for getting back, death warp is almost always an option unless you're stuck in a low-level zone, for which case you should have a warp cudgel ready (or a Treat Staff II, if you have one).
As for content, it's a lot solo friendlier now. Like I said, the majority of old content can be done solo now, due to the level cap increase, even on jobs less suited for it than RDM is. RDM will have no problem with most of it, until it gets to the very end of mission lines which still require a party (as in two or three people). -
12-08-2012, 06:11 PMEconomizer
Game is way more solo friendly. But while a WHM/DNC or a WHM/NIN would be incredibly self sufficient and able to travel most anywhere easily (the books by the teles make it easy to get home without Instant-Warp, although Instant-Warp is only 10 CP now) you can't easily or efficiently solo things like Dynamis that a BST/DNC would favor.
Every warp bar spells like what White Mage can cast has a cost or has a long cooldown. So while you can do Outpost Warps (Conquest/Gil), Maw Warp or Voidwatch Warp (cruor), Book Warp (Tabs), they'd cost resources just the same as Warp Cudgel (AH or Crafting) or Waystone Earrings (Synergy, Silver Earring + ~10k gil Waystone from NPC for 30 charges).Quote:
Originally Posted by Eice
Moving around isn't hard at all in this game, and if you do need to do running, 12% extra movement speed is almost always easier to get (unless you happen to be a White Mage or Black Mage... seriously SE, did NQ Hexed boots really have to have 8% movement speed, weren't they gimp enough?). Plus you can use a Chocobo Whistle if you've taken the time to raise a Chocobo. -
12-09-2012, 12:20 AMkatz
The game has drastically changed since you left. You have lots to learn. Ground of valor and tomes of valor books means little tradional exp partys out there. You dont lose exp below 30 when you die. Most low players go to gusden mines do page 1 to get to from 14-25-30ish depending on low levels available. Book pages are were most exp is gained not exp earned from mobs although those help too. Once you hit 30 and a have nice players who will let you join their abyssea party at 30, you become a chest keyer in abyssea. If you want to stay out of abyssea there are still loads of book pages you canwork on either in groups or solo.
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12-10-2012, 03:56 AMMarkovChain
Home Point in PJ near the instant warp scoll NPC fixes half of your problems. Going to teleports serves no purpose anymore. There is nothing to do near mea/dem/holla, for vahzl you can use abyssea NPC. Makes /whm useless. If you come back the main thing you'll be doing is farming abyssea stuff, so soling a lot and killing junk. This make RDM worthless. You are better off with something like NIN/DNC. But you won't go very far solol lol.
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12-10-2012, 02:22 PMAfaniaThere's no 1 single job that covers all aspect, you'd better off with job change button. Note that lving is really fast and easy, so it's better to lv multiple jobs if you want to cover all aspect.Quote:
Originally Posted by Eice
As for Warp: Warp scroll is cheap, and you can get 1 for free, there are also many warp items. I only really /BLM for warp if I'm NPCing blinker before nerf, now nobody NPC blinker anymore.
If I'm running around in town, I often run on COR/THF and pop flee then reset flee with random deal and use movement speed+ roll. This combination wouldn't have sneak/invis though. If I need sneak/invis I just /DNC and movement speed+ roll.
RDM solo is fairly slow and inefficient unless you're soloing hardcore stuff. BLU, BST, DNC, PUP or NIN are pretty good solo jobs depending on what you're fighting, or THF if you need TH. All above jobs works very well in dyna, BLU works best if you solo salvage, NIN is best Abyssea solo with red proc, and PUP/THF is good for dyna solo if competition is high. THF/DNC works decently if you're just farming stuff and need TH. -
12-10-2012, 04:27 PMElphyTake it from a fellow career rdm back before aby made dalamud look like a choco egg, if you main rdm/nin you are in trouble when it comes to getting into any endgame content. Believe me its a rare case that a group, esp a pug, will say "rdm? sure bring it down!"Quote:
Originally Posted by Eice
Plus other jobs solo faster than rdm now, I know I lvled and geared up dnc and its way faster and survives better in most cases. But there is always bst which everyone uses now for solo and if you want to do anything group wise, even sch is more in need so look at other mage classes that may fit your play style, or heavy dd. Regardless its always good to have nin whm blm or blu just for seal/+2/empy item farming -
12-10-2012, 05:21 PMDemon6324236
RDM/NIN is hard to get into endgame with, but depending on the work put into it, its possible. I DD in vw on RDM/NIN often, and also tank adds on it as of late, the primary problem is that thanks to most RDMs, and the way they are looked upon now days, its often thought RDM is a terrible job never worth the invite. I have however built up a reputation between friends and VW leaders as a badass RDM, and thanks to it my rate of being turned down went from 90%, to roughly 20% at best. So honestly I think its possible to make it work, from experience, but its surely not something you can go out and do in a night, its alot of work, and even after you have the gear, its a matter of getting some nice people who will let you show you can use it, after that, you will become a bit more accepted because people should realize your good at it, or at least, thats how it was, and has been for me.
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12-10-2012, 05:53 PMArconThe era of one main job is over. People can play a career RDM and a career THF and a career WAR all at the same time. If he wants to be RDM, he should be, but for other events, he will need a job that's more useful to the group. That doesn't mean he has to give up on RDM though. He made it clear that he likes the idea of soloing old content, and for that RDM is still decent.Quote:
Originally Posted by Elphy
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12-11-2012, 11:39 PMAfaniaI disagree with your POV regarding "able to career RDM THF WAR at the same time" though, at least it's not achieveable by 99.9999% of playerbase with just 1 character. 95% of player I know of doesn't even career 1 job and just gear many jobs to avg level based on event needs, let alone 2. Ppl who career 3 jobs is either very hardcore, or have multiple characters.Quote:
Originally Posted by Arcon
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12-12-2012, 01:11 AMMirage
Career 2-3 jobs isn't really *that* hard. 5-6 career jobs, maybe.
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12-12-2012, 10:51 AMAfaniaHow'd you have enough merit/inventory space and time to farm all that lv 99 R/E/M for 3 jobs, for majority of players on 1 character at least? Some jobs like WAR BRD need at least 2 lv 99 R/E to perform properly, which is kinda out of reach for average players to 99 4+ R/E. Your 2~3 jobs have to at least overlap a bit to achieve this.Quote:
Originally Posted by Mirage
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12-12-2012, 11:05 AMDemon6324236
If your talking about WAR having both Ukon and Rag, your talking at Legion levels, in which case no, most people wont have 3 jobs that high. If your talking about something such as Prov levels, meaning 90~99 R/M/E with full +2 as well as VW gear, perhaps some NNI or Limbus gear, then yeah, I think that alot of people can get 2~3 jobs that fairly easy if they take the job seriously and have a decent group of friend or LS. So really depends on your standards for a job to count as a 'career' job.
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12-12-2012, 01:43 PMAfaniaHonestly, the amount of ppl I know having 3 lv 99 R/E/M plus complete gear set(that means all JA macro/multiple WS+TP/idle/DT- and fast cast etc) set for most situations for 3 different jobs are very low, most of the hardcore player often only have 2 at most as far as I know. Also considering a lot of ppl have lv 90 empy with incomplete gear set + no capped skill and just make lv 90 empy for collection and doesn't care about that job, and just recycle NNI gears, I wouldn't consider having lv 90 empy+NNI gear "career" job. IMO having complete gear set to deal with majority of situation is what makes a job career, recycle gears from another job doesn't really count IMO.Quote:
Originally Posted by Demon6324236
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12-12-2012, 03:39 PMArcon
I don't think we have the same definition of a career job. I don't consider a pimped out job a career job. I have SCH and SMN fully pimped in every regard, bar mythic. That doesn't mean they are my career, it simply means that first, I did it because I felt I had to to be useful for certain events (like high magic accuracy gear for Stuns and high Enhancing Skill for Embrava) and second, that it was rather easy to obtain said items compared to other jobs.
I would define a career job as a job you love and try to focus on, even if you don't have the best gear for it. Just because you don't spend every waking moment on it doesn't mean you don't care for it the most. If that was the case, almost no one would have a career job at all. -
12-12-2012, 04:37 PMAfaniaWell basically I agree that the job you love and try to focus on would be your career job, but as you focus on 1~2 jobs your gear will eventually be good, you don't necessary need to have perfect gear for 10+ gear set, but the quality and quantity of gear set you have should be way higher than avg players. And vice versa: If you try to pimp out 5 jobs, their performance would spread too thin for average players that's not super hardcore.Quote:
Originally Posted by Arcon
A career SCH would have staff WS merit so he/she can WS once a while in NNI ;) -
12-12-2012, 04:46 PMArcon
For a higher number of jobs that is certainly true. But I still feel like I can focus on WAR and THF simultaneously without sacrificing one for the other. Sure, one job will have a relic sooner than the other, but to me that's an arbitrary decision, I basically flipped a coin. On the other hand, I focused on capped PDT on WAR over other things on THF, so it evened out. It is similar for PLD, despite not having played it for about a year. I just don't find the right application for it, because every time we need a PLD, we have an Ochain+Aegis PLD ready for it. But I still gear it and will soon be one of those PLD, that's because I consider it my career. Those three jobs are what's most important to me.
Oh, and I have Accuracy, Haste, Double Attack and Store TP sets for all my mages, none of which I consider my career. Because I had items lying around that they can use (like Brutal or Rajas), without having to invest time in it specifically. I don't feel that distinction does the definition justice, but I guess that's a matter of opinion. -
12-12-2012, 10:30 PMAfaniaWell for WAR you need rag+Ukon to DD, and THF needs mandau, that's like 3 relic worth of weapon for just 2 jobs(you mentioned 3 jobs) And not counting some gil sink items like HQ abj augment. Again, maybe you're hardcore and able to afford everything, but for majority of players building 3 relics+ some HQ augment takes at least 10+ months. By that time more gear already come out. Majority of player I've met in this game pretty much focus on only 1 job(myself included, cuz I can never have enough time to work on so many gil sink items for more than 1 job), some focus on 2(usually if they have 2 characters, so 1 main job on 1 character), but focusing on 3 is pretty rare for sure.Quote:
Originally Posted by Arcon
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12-12-2012, 10:45 PMArconLike I said, I don't consider needing great gear to count it a career job. I don't need neither Ragnarok nor Ukonvasara to call myself a career WAR. Maybe it's my definition that's off, but my original point was that even if he focuses on RDM it does not mean that it has to be the only job he's any good at. You can have several very well geared jobs and be good on all of them.Quote:
Originally Posted by Afania
On a slightly unrelated note, WAR does not need both those weapons to be good, and THF doesn't need Mandau for anything even remotely relevant. And that argument only really holds for certain melee jobs in the first place. It sounds kinda arbitrary to me. Does a career BLM need a mythic? Or all trial staves? And if you don't have it, it's not your career? Maybe it's an entirely pointless definition in the first place, but just because you play one job well does not mean you have to half-ass your other jobs. -
12-13-2012, 02:39 AMDemon6324236
So, career job = have the best possible gear in the game for that job. Guess I can no longer say I am a career RDM because I don't have my Excalibur @99, or my Almace @99, or my Iaso gear, guess I suck.
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12-13-2012, 10:44 AMAfaniaLet me just say it this way, atm I don't have THF, but I can burn it to lv 99 in 1~2 days, and get AF3+2 full set in a few days. I already have TH hands in my MH, and qilin dagger+Aluh(which obviously isn't mandau, but "good enough" to get the job done) I also already have movement speed+ feet, full dagger merit and exen merit, and thaumas full set. Rest of the gears like earring/rings I can buy it from AH. I also already have some evasion gear and WS gear.Quote:
Originally Posted by Arcon
So basically if I want to lv THF to lv 99 and get it functional, it takes like, 1~2 weeks? Maybe 1 extra week to practice and study more about the job, using spreadsheet to determine best gear set in certain situations etc, and ask questions. That's 2~3 weeks of work starting from scratch. Compare with amount of time I play FFXI it's very low.
I know THFs that spend years on gearing this job as best possible, with mandau lv 99, with more than 1 HQ T abj augment piece. IMO it's quite an insult to the word "career" if I spend 2~3 weeks on a THF and calling myself career THF. If I spend 2~3 weeks on THF and call myself career, what about those with relic/empy 99+ T.abj augment THFs? What are they?
It isn't "hard" to play a job well, but IMO the word "career" should be more than just playing a job well.
I also disagree with WAR not needing Ukon/Rag to be career WAR btw, it's not even functional without at least ukon(unless you only bring it to Abyssea for red), let alone being career.
Nobody say you need best possible gear ever exist to be career, but it needs to be more than 2~3 weeks of work period.Quote:
Originally Posted by Demon6324236
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12-13-2012, 10:57 AMDemon6324236
Your talking about WAR having both Ukon and Rag, with HQ Abj gear from VW/Legion... Yeah, sounds about the best it gets... Which is the reason for my comment.
That is what I think gives you a career title. The fact you try to gear the job to its max potential, not that you have super amounts of gear, or the best gear ever, but the fact the majority of your effort goes into that job, and its the job you put your heart into. For some this is only a single job, others it is many, for me its RDM, my RDM lacks some things that you may find easy, like the 5 Marrows for 99ing my Excalibur, or the Plates/Cinders to 99 my Almace, but to me that is out of reach, to me what makes me a career RDM is that its my job I focus on, above all other jobs.Quote:
Originally Posted by Afania
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12-13-2012, 11:10 AMAfaniaI don't play WAR so I'm not sure if legion HQ abj gear is relevant for WAR. But yes any serious WAR would work on Ukon/Rag, otherwise I can just burn my WAR to lv 99 and call myself career.Quote:
Originally Posted by Demon6324236
If I want to be a career WAR, and Ukon/rag is out of my reach, the 1st thing I'd do is to work on them, not giving up on them and work on other jobs and still call myself career WAR. That's why I disagree with posts above, if I don't have ukon/rag and still spread my time on other jobs, there's no way I'd call WAR my career job, otherwise I'd be insulting the word career. That's why I said career 3 jobs is out of reach for majority of players.....you should already get majority of the gears you want on 1 job to jump to next no?Quote:
Originally Posted by Demon6324236
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12-13-2012, 04:20 PMArcon
Like I said three times before, I don't consider just having great gear and skills to make a job a career job. If that was the case, I'd have three career jobs I don't particularly care for (BLM, SCH, SMN) and two career jobs I do care for (WAR, THF). It doesn't make sense to me.
But whatever, our opinions on the definition differ apparently, so it's pointless to argue further.