Exenterator vs Evisceration.

Assuming you can make both weaponskills reach their maximum potential, which one hands down is the better weaponskill, or are both worth having for THF?

Exenterator wins without a doubt outside of Abyssea. Inside Evisceration is still better due to the massive boosts to critical hit rate and damage. Outside you'll rarely ever use Evisceration. I wouldn't bother gearing specifically for it.

As arcon says, you shouldn't be using exenterator inside abyssea at all.

Outside abyssea, Exenterator is clearly better than Evisceration, but that doesn't say a lot because Dancing Edge is generally better than Evisc as well. The real question is if you should get exenterator to use instead of DE on the outside. It is definitely better, but not by as much as it is better than evisceration. Maybe the people I've seen just suck, but I generally see Exenterator do about 10-20% more damage than my own DEs do, and I don't exactly have the best DE gear in the world.

Under high buff situations in VW I'm not sure why but my evisceration's outdo my exenterator by a decent margin.
I love exenterator in dyna thou much more consistent than evis

I see. Thank you all for the feedback^^

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Originally Posted by Mirage

As arcon says, you shouldn't be using exenterator inside abyssea at all.

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That's not what Arcon said. In abyssea, I still always use Exenterator with Trick Attack due to using AGI gear for both, or as the first WS when solo just for the acc down.

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Originally Posted by Mirage

Outside abyssea, Exenterator is clearly better than Evisceration, but that doesn't say a lot because Dancing Edge is generally better than Evisc as well. The real question is if you should get exenterator to use instead of DE on the outside. It is definitely better, but not by as much as it is better than evisceration. Maybe the people I've seen just suck, but I generally see Exenterator do about 10-20% more damage than my own DEs do, and I don't exactly have the best DE gear in the world.

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I find them to be pretty much on par for things like soloing Limbus/Dyna etc. Rarely get to THF on harder content though. When solo, like I said in abyssea, the acc down from exen helps a ton.

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Originally Posted by Falseliberty

Under high buff situations in VW I'm not sure why but my evisceration's outdo my exenterator by a decent margin.

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Possibly due to a DRG or SAM using Stardiver? (crit resist down) Or possibly due to champions tonic (crit rate up). Both these will give much higher chance for evis to crit, therefore higher average damage.

My Evisceration always seems to pull just a little ahead, But its eyeballed, and On Paper Exenterator is a clear winner. I however, Stick with Evisceration now. Generally using Mandau/Aluh... I removed my Exenterator Merits, My Evisc Build put it close to Exent in most situations, my exents always peaked the ridiculously highest, But I have a lot of jobs, and Exent wasn't worth it for me.

But if THF is you <3, Keep Exent, And use it outside Abyssea. Inside, In most cases, Even with TA, Evisc is better based on your atmas, But its definitely not a far second.

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Originally Posted by Babekeke

That's not what Arcon said. In abyssea, I still always use Exenterator with Trick Attack due to using AGI gear for both, or as the first WS when solo just for the acc down.

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It kinda is what I said, or at least what I implied. But I admit I may not have been aware of all the angles, as I usually use Mercy Stroke with SA and TA. But still, Exenterator should not be better than Evisceration, even with TA. The AGI bonus for TA only applies to the first WS hit, while the critical hit rate and damage bonuses apply to the remaining five hits as well.

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Originally Posted by Babekeke

I find them to be pretty much on par for things like soloing Limbus/Dyna etc. Rarely get to THF on harder content though. When solo, like I said in abyssea, the acc down from exen helps a ton.

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I find that completely backwards. Exenterator pulls ahead by miles in Limbus and Dynamis and generally all kinds of lower tier content. The only bonus Evisceration has is on higher level monsters, due to its critical hits. On everything else, it doesn't even compare.

Exenterator is heavily gear based, more so than Exenterator, due its high WS modifier. Which means, with better gear it will get better faster than Evisceration will. Even if Evisceration was comparable at one point, it couldn't possibly hold up, and by now it's far eclipsed on most things. It may even surpass Evisceration on harder content at some point in the future.

Also, enemy accuracy should never be a problem in Abyssea, unless it's one of the highest tier NMs, the ones that aren't soloable in the first place.

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Originally Posted by Arcon

It kinda is what I said, or at least what I implied. But I admit I may not have been aware of all the angles, as I usually use Mercy Stroke with SA and TA. But still, Exenterator should not be better than Evisceration, even with TA. The AGI bonus for TA only applies to the first WS hit, while the critical hit rate and damage bonuses apply to the remaining five hits as well.

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I generally find that SA evis beats TA exen by ~500 in abyssea with apoc/rr/vv. I assume them to be ~ on par if I used TA evis, due to the agi mod, but I can't remember the last time I did TA evis. This is on most aby NMs.

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Originally Posted by Arcon

I find that completely backwards. Exenterator pulls ahead by miles in Limbus and Dynamis and generally all kinds of lower tier content. The only bonus Evisceration has is on higher level monsters, due to its critical hits. On everything else, it doesn't even compare.

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I think you misread here... we were comparing Exen and DE outside abby, not evis. Evis generally sucks outside aby unless you have someone using stardiver, and you have champions available.

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Originally Posted by Babekeke

I think you misread here... we were comparing Exen and DE outside abby, not evis. Evis generally sucks outside aby unless you have someone using stardiver, and you have champions available.

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My bad indeed. Evisceration does beat Dancing Edge on average, even more so on higher defense monsters.

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Originally Posted by Karbuncle

I however, Stick with Evisceration now. Generally using Mandau/Aluh... .

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This is kinda removed from the topic, but on paper, I've had MS get really close to Exenterator if you have good gear plus the 30% bonus on the 99 weapon. Dunno if any THFs have played with it, but is it possible if you're riding the 5% crit rate you might actually do more overall damage just spamming Mercy Stroke?

I currently ride Exenterator outside Abyssea so I didn't look into it...but DE outdoes Evisceration, still? I remember back at 75 lots of people said to swap over to Evisceration if you had an X's Knife. With just the THF trait giving like 13% crit damage is DE still outdoing Evisceration nowadays? Guess it must've been just an eyeball'd thing back then.

It's +40% damage at Lv.99, and it's still very noticeably behind Exenterator. Especially because the 5% critical hit rate will already be up for quite a bit because of SA/TA, for when you should use it over Exenterator regardless.

Its not really THAT far behind Exenterator. I mean, Its noticeable, But not so significantly that they're in different ballparks. a Triple Attack'd Mercy is pretty potent, and With the right gear, It can come work up there nicely. That and Evisceration is still great.

Exenterator is the best dagger WS unstacked at the moment, Of that i have no doubt, I just got rid of it because I have too many other jobs and I'm never brought on THF to DD, so Evisc and Mercy suit me well.

It'll depend on exact gear available, but doing some checking it seems that DE and Evisceration (unstacked) are nearly identical against DC Dynamis Mobs, using either Aluh + Oynos (DE: 1745, Evis: 1750) or Mandau 99 + Oynos (DE: 1797, Evis: 1795).

Exenterator is 22% ahead of DE with a top-end build (23% with Mandau 99).

Same gear against Pil with Stalwart's active, Exen is ~12% ahead of DE and 10% ahead of Evisceration, but that doesn't count the +crit rate from Champion's Drink. With Champion's Drink, Evisceration pulls decently ahead (~10%).

TA+Mercy Stroke beats TA+Exen by about 21% against Pil-level mobs, but only by 4% against Dynamis DC mobs.

Looks like unstacked DE is only about 2-3% ahead of unstacked MS when using Mandau 99. With the crit rate aftermath, overall DPS is just about tied.


So: Unstacked, Exen should be decently ahead of all other options on lower-level mobs. On higher level mobs it's still strongly competitive unless you have Champion's Drink (and aren't fighting mobs with -crit rate traits), in which case use Evisceration.

Stacked with TA, Mercy Stroke with Mandau 99 is decently ahead. With Mandau 95, though, the gap narrows considerably; MS wins on tougher content, Exenterator wins on lower level content.

Stacking with SA is less favorable for Exenterator, so the balance shifts a bit towards the other weaponskills, but overall recommendations are basically going to be the same.




In general you're going to be looking at a 10% to 20% gain in weaponskill damage using Exenterator over other non-relic options. If you have a 99 Mandau, there's very little case for Exenterator. If you have 95 Mandau, though, judicious use of Exenterator can still lead to it being better (but probably not better enough to justify the merit slot).

Thanks for mathing it out, Motenten.

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Originally Posted by Karbuncle

Its not really THAT far behind Exenterator. I mean, Its noticeable, But not so significantly that they're in different ballparks. a Triple Attack'd Mercy is pretty potent, and With the right gear, It can come work up there nicely. That and Evisceration is still great.

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I notice it quite a lot, eyeballing I'd say about 50% behind Exenterator on average. And this is not a "I WS'd twice and saw it" thing, but confirmed time and again in months of playing, because I always mix them up every now and then when some macros don't fire properly. However, I should say this is on lower level content, Salvage for the most part (I don't get to fight high end content on THF, so don't feel qualified to comment on that, but MS should be getting better against higher defense).

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Originally Posted by Motenten

If you have a 99 Mandau, there's very little case for Exenterator.

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Except for when SA/TA aren't up, which is a lot, especially when soloing, which is usually where you're interested in damage. I don't think you covered that in your post, but a bare Mercy Stroke is sadly not too impressive.

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Originally Posted by Arcon

Except for when SA/TA aren't up, which is a lot, especially when soloing, which is usually where you're interested in damage. I don't think you covered that in your post, but a bare Mercy Stroke is sadly not too impressive.

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If not stacking, I assumed the comparison would fall back to Exen vs DE/Evis, though I'll grant that I did consider it from the perspective that stacking was a reasonable option at least a fair amount of the time. I do almost nothing in game as solo, since I find it an irritating hassle; I'm almost always at least in a duo.

So yes, in a situation where stacking is just not a viable option, Exen will go back to being a decently advantageous weaponskill over the alternatives even for a Mandau owner.