DRG/BLU vs DRG/RDM vs DRG/WHM

Back when I used to play (2 years ago) I rolled with a group so I was never really concerned with soloing although I knew we were capable of it and looked into it.

Now I'm returning solo and I know I'm going to have to do alot of things solo so I'm planning to level a /mage for my DRG but I'm wondering which one would be the most effective.

What I know right now about each:

/whm: Has the -na spells, Dia, Regen, Hate, Barspells, self-protect/shell, Auto-Regen, and the highest MP pool (Snk/inv are +'s)

/RDM: Spikes, Refresh, Regen, Bio, En-spells, Fast Cast, Lower MP single target Bar spells, Second highest MP pool (I think)

/BLU: Cocoon, Spells set to give job traits such as Auto-Regen, Spells give stat bonuses, higher melee stats, 5mp fast casting spells, ? (I don't know much about /blu)

I have experience with /whm but not with /rdm or /blu
Which do you all think is the best and why?

Do you want haste? /whm
Do you need refresh? /rdm
Are you getting debuffed more than your wyvern can handle such that you need -na spells (bad breath, petalback spin)? /whm
Else > /blu

I'm in the same boat as you except I've played with LV75 /WHM, /RDM, and /BLU
/BLU for Healing Spam, Cocoon, and Clear Mind didn't hurt
/RDM for Magic Defense. Phalanx, SSkin, Bar, and Spikes came in handy enough.
/WHM was for RR, in other words, I used it when I didn't know if I was going to actually survive.

I'm sure since 45 is the new 37, RDM has gotten much better with giving us Refresh, and its only going to get better when 49 becomes the new 45 and we can cast Haste on RDM.
WHM gets us Haste too, but Regen II is not as great as Refresh.
BLU gets us Refueling (10% Haste), other than that. I haven't researched a whole lot on /BLU with all its spells.

Well with Abyssea being the way it is I may as well leech em all up to 49 haha, nice to know which situations each are useful in, thanks

I leveled /WHM prior to toau for soloing purposes, and started leveling /RDM but only got to 10. When toau came out and I actually sat down and leveled my BLU (I ended up taking it to 75 because I loved spell hunting) I never ever subbed WHM again unless I was running out to go quest something that I didn't have anything I needed to fight. I wish I could say I had personal experience with /RDM though, but a good friend of mine swears by it (its also because he doesn't have /BLU lol).

I personally would never use /WHM ever again. The low mp cost spells cast too slow without fast cast (Dia in particular), and the .5 second casting bar-spells cost 12 mp -- I'm a Galka so these issues are a little bit more concerning to me. Before my mp merits i had a laughable 50 something mp max /WHM. Pre 82, I would have said /BLU all the way as the best mage sub, honestly I still swear by it. Barring abyssea, the extra stat boosts from setting spells are great. I get DEX and STR for free and they're always on, not to mention being able to set spells that raise your max HP for a safer threshold for healing breath. All your best HB trigger spells cost 5mp (I use Foot Kick and Power Attack) and are only 0.5 sec casting, recasts are as long as the animation for healing breath to go off, probably even less, even when slowed. I never have a problem with spells not being ready to use and those said trigger spells deal damage. Not to mention in a pinch you could use headbutt for a small chance of stunning.

I've had people argue that I used to healing breath party with that they would rather have a spell not be range dependent to trigger HB, and I used to argue that I preferred that I didn't like my healing breath triggers to be mimicked back onto me (Colibri parties ftw) and cause any kind of defense down or a dot in general just in case something needed to be slept. The range issue really seemed to be moot considering many people use self cast spells to trigger, such as the case with bar spells and if you're soloing, where would the mob be running off to anyway? /BLU gives the use of Cocoon, which in comparison to /RDM that gains Phalanx. Cocoon costs 10mp and recasts @ 2 min and is free (Only reason I bring this up is because I haven't bought a scroll of Phalanx yet and it's like 600k on my server) and I typically use Pollen as my backup self cast. Phalanx is 21mp and recasts @ 10 sec and lasts 1 min longer. So between those two its really a matter of choice as Cocoon and a sub skill enhancing magic Phalanx should provide a comparable amount in damage reduction. /RDM is a better sub only if you don't have an Ethereal.

If you have an Ethereal Earring, MP really shouldn't be an issue unless you get aspired and really, even then if you just take a hit or two you'll have enough MP to put up another healing breath. And really the only time where MP was an issue was when I tried to solo a Wamoura and it used probocis (sp?) and then erratic flutter, even then what killed me was the ridiculous attack speed. In the end though /RDM and /BLU should have similar results. Ultimately, I'd recommend /BLU because of the low cost spells and the stat bonuses you gain.

i have always used DRG/WHM for my soloing, in all honestly it has saved me from a lot of close calls, (stupid Yagudo in campaign) *ahem* anyway, people say that BLU is a good sub for DRG and in all honesty i agree with them, the different spells and ablilty to make your own traits, Blu may not be able to raise you from KO but its fast and has low costing spells and it also gives a better boost to Melee then Whm. there are many factors to each job you want to sub for soloing. weigh the pros and cons before makin a final decsion. so it all really just falls to the guy wanting to use the sub job, think about the mission or hunt your goin on, and see which sub job will benefit you the most for it

There's also the benefit of increased damage as /blu. Being able to use Chain Affinity allows you to solo light SCs once every 1.5 minutes ish, with Empathy meritted, Spirit Link basically turns your wyvern's TP gauge into a 2nd one of your own, although this is quite difficult to use for inexperience /blu DRGs. Also, with the right spell set up /BLU has more STR/DEX than /SAM, and if you have the skill needed to utilize chain affinity and spirit link to the best of their capabilities...
I might dare to say that /BLU could compete for a spot at the top of the list for DD subs, as well as soloing.

While I suspect I may be getting trolled, I'll go ahead and reply seriously.

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Originally Posted by Shakuzen

There's also the benefit of increased damage as /blu. Being able to use Chain Affinity allows you to solo light SCs once every 1.5 minutes ish, with Empathy meritted, Spirit Link basically turns your wyvern's TP gauge into a 2nd one of your own, although this is quite difficult to use for inexperience /blu DRGs.

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The way this is phrased make it a bit hard to interpret but I think what your saying is:CA, cast, use spirit link to get TP then WS, for a SC? Seems.. impractical to me. Not to mention Impossible, in the case of light SC. The only blu spells that can open, or close, Light, are not subable.

Not to mention the use of a CA spell will wipe your TP, which makes the only appropriate time to use it, right after a ws. In which case, you might as well skip the CA altogether and just use that spirit linked TP to straight up Camlann's > Drakes > Light.

And what are you fighting that's so weak that your wyvern has that much TP? Every healing breath will use all his TP. And if the mobs are that weak just go DD sub and use restoring breath.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Shakuzen

Also, with the right spell set up /BLU has more STR/DEX than /SAM, and if you have the skill needed to utilize chain affinity and spirit link to the best of their capabilities...
I might dare to say that /BLU could compete for a spot at the top of the list for DD subs, as well as soloing.

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The base stat differences are minimal at best. Probly wouldn't even show up on a parse.

Of the 3 solo subs brought up in this thread, /BLU is the weakest in terms of DMG output. /WHM or /RDM would win just by keeping Dia II on the mob. And /WHM will blow them both outta the water with self haste.

/BLU's strength is in it's defenses. It's specialty is soloing mobs that deal massive physical dmg, and mitigating that(via Cocoon) to the point that we can keep up with healing breath. There's also some limited utility in its minor enfeeble effect. Head butt, and sprout smack being the most prominent. The add effect acc is low, but when you can spam them as an HB trigger its gonna land sometimes. That bit of slow from sprout smack helps further mitigate melee dmg.

/WHM is a fairly balanced solo sub, but the addition of haste pushes it to the most damaging solo sub. There's also Dia II adding to the offense. Defensively, Its buffs and magic defense bonus make /WHM fairly good for dealing with casting mobs. But its physical def is nothing special. -Na spells and erase provide some defense against enfeebles, and auto-regen for the wyvern is always helpful. Aquaveil can also serve as a safety net against interrupts. Also has the largest mp pool of the 3. Primary cons are slower, more expensive trigger spells, higher MP consumption, and weaker physical def.

/RDM is much like /WHM, - the Na spells and haste. While it has a smaller MP pool than /whm(same as /blu though) it has refresh to maintain mp. Allowing more frequent use of spells. Convert is also an option to replenish mp between fights(god, don't do that during one). Pretty much its only offensive bonus is Dia II, but at lvl 99 it will get haste as well. Dispel is a major advantage of /rdm. Things like shock spikes or def boost can be a major problem. Primary defenses would be phalanx and ice spikes. Subbed phalanx, while small, is a decent boost, it just doesn't compare to cocoon. Ice spikes is very powerful indeed. Any mob that can be para'd can be near crippled by its paralyze. And it can prevent nasty spells from going off. Has fast, cheap triggers(barspells) and similar magic def to WHM.

didn't read everything here, but here's one more drg soloer's experience. i soloed drg to 71 (then discovered abyssea in january and am, obviously, 90 now; this is my 4th time reactivating, the last break being ~2.5 years long). i started a couple months after FFXI was released and drg was all i wanted to do. back then, it was /whm. /rdm was the other option, but i didn't care for rdm, so it didn't make it past lvl 5, which it still is, so i can't speak for /rdm. when blu came out, i read it would be better than /whm, so i unlocked it and, sure enough, it was much better, imo. power attack and foot kick are only interrupted if you're not paying 10%+ attention. auto regen is a plus, configurable attribute ups are also a plus. and, when field manuals came out, refresh is attainable at all times (talking outside of abyssea which has atmas for refresh). with field manual refresh, mp is not nearly as big a deal (i could 5 chain birds in woajam till i got tired), so less mp is ok for blu and the added att/def is just a bonus. i'm sure there are more reasons i think /blu is much better than /whm, but the rum is interfering with my thoughts. again, i can't speak to /rdm because i never leveled it. to sum up: being an old school drg soloer, /blu is the best (again, in my opinion) sub for soloing.

oh, just reread your op. for my soloing experience, it wasn't nearly as much about the sub's spells as it was about supporting the drg. the sub was just a way of executing the heals i desperately needed, the rest was just lagniappe. hope that makes sense. again, the rum.

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Originally Posted by Martel

The way this is phrased make it a bit hard to interpret but I think what your saying is:CA, cast, use spirit link to get TP then WS, for a SC? Seems.. impractical to me. Not to mention Impossible, in the case of light SC. The only blu spells that can open, or close, Light, are not subable.

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What I meant was that you open with a WS, CA, spell, Spirit link, another WS.
For example, Impulse Drive, CA, Power attack, Spirit link, Wheeling thrust.

This is mostly for those who don't have emp at all, I used this when the cap was at 80, in dynamis. It was a good way to balance out, being able to do Light SC, but then if necessary also being able to save myself if the tank died and super jump was down. For anyone with Camlann's Torment it'd probably be useless, but it's more than possible to do this solo, I doubt it would work on A-NMs but I have yet to try it on Roc/Simurgh.

Ah. I hadn't thought of doing a multi-step SC.

But honestly, that's still waste of time. I am absolutely certain you would get more overall damage from just using 2 Drakesbanes than you will pushing for this impractical SC setup. Impulse and wheeling both, are pretty terrible damage.

Now, if you have a setup that'll let you do that with drakesx2, knock yourself out. Hmm, did a bit of research. Best you could get would be a Fusion SC via, Drakes>claw cyclone(or screwdriver)>Drakes. A 3 step fusion could get up to 75% of the closing WS's damage. You know, that's actually better than I was expecting...

But there's still this one issue...

How does your wyvern have so much TP? To get 100% TP return from spirit link the wyvern would need to have 200% TP. Are you not healing breathing at all? If so, why not just use a DD sub? The occasional restoring breath should keep you up easily if the mobs are that weak.

I'm also kinda curious how the use of a 3 min recast JA is supposed to get you a light SC once ever 1.5 mins. Using spirit link for one SC and jump to get TP for the other? Although you didn't mention jumps.. And even with spirit/soul jump, going from 0~100% tp in two jumps, /blu will almost certainly require one, or both of those jumps to double attack.. OAT polearm? Still kinda iffy.

If you really want the most damage output, and need solo capability, go /whm, caste dia II and keep haste up. You'll get far more damage out of haste then you will trying to cobble together impractical skill chains. That and not limiting your WS rate by JA timers or your wyverns TP.

I must apologise for my original comment: It does indeed seem that this Renkei will be outdamaged by the one you've stated above, and /BLU will probably not compare very well to /SAM. I must however state:

The 1.5 minutes was a mistake; 2 minutes is what I meant. (I switched some merits to accomodate spirit link's recast for abyssea at level 80 in an attempt to keep my wyvern alive in a worm party; it is the recast that I have available in dynamis.)

I have managed to get my wyvern's TP up to 190 solo, which is enough. 1 hit and I can WS; which is still in time for my renkei. It is not a simple feat, I usually hit the lower end of orange HP; that is why I said that it's not for inexperienced DRGs as they may not be able to recover from such low HP easily. But this is on xp mobs (greater colibri).

As for Dynamis, my wyvern is frequently at 300% as I have no need for HB unless the tank dies while super jump is down.
(Which does tend to happen occasionally)


As stated: I have not yet attempted this manoeuvre on any HNM. However I will be attempting your Drakesbane Fusion one when servers come back up. (Perhaps with defence food and -PDT gear for when my wyvern is storing TP, and perhaps I will let it take a few hits with super jump, I don't know yet.)

/BLU is loads of fun. Quite a strong sub as well for DRG as well.

/WHM isnt really necersary as your wyvern covers you when it comes to healing.

/RDM is handy for buffs / survivability..

My vote is /BLU all the way.. Solo'd more mobs then I even thought I could have dreamed of as a Dragoon. When you hit 90 however, you can solo with /SAM to a certain degree as you can trigger healing breath without a spell.

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Originally Posted by Shakuzen

The 1.5 minutes was a mistake; 2 minutes is what I meant. (I switched some merits to accomodate spirit link's recast for abyssea at level 80 in an attempt to keep my wyvern alive in a worm party; it is the recast that I have available in dynamis.)

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Even fully merited, Spirit link recast will cap at 2:30

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Shakuzen

I have managed to get my wyvern's TP up to 190 solo, which is enough. 1 hit and I can WS; which is still in time for my renkei. It is not a simple feat, I usually hit the lower end of orange HP; that is why I said that it's not for inexperienced DRGs as they may not be able to recover from such low HP easily. But this is on xp mobs (greater colibri).

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I wouldn't recommend trying that on any serious solo. It'll get you killed pretty quick. And.. People still exp on Greater Colibri? Try soloing the sand sweeper Dominion OPs in abyssea Altepa. Its easy, and really good exp.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Shakuzen

As for Dynamis, my wyvern is frequently at 300% as I have no need for HB unless the tank dies while super jump is down.
(Which does tend to happen occasionally)

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You... Do dynamis /mage? Is there a healer present? I'd hope so, because relying on healing breath in an AoE spammed event like dynamis seems pretty risky. If there is a healer... why not come with a DD sub?

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Originally Posted by Shakuzen

As stated: I have not yet attempted this manoeuvre on any HNM. However I will be attempting your Drakesbane Fusion one when servers come back up. (Perhaps with defence food and -PDT gear for when my wyvern is storing TP, and perhaps I will let it take a few hits with super jump, I don't know yet.)

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If you have to slow your DMG output(by holding TP or changing from haste to PDT gear while you wait on wyvern TP) then even trying to SC like this is a waste of time. Even more so on anything higher lvl, as you see increased chances of a resisted SC.

As a Skillchain fanatic I am always looking to make a skillchain to maximize my damage(or just for plain fun). Just a thought about the sub mage for a moment. I've been in situations where I started out soloing and more people have joined in and its perfectly reasonable to continue to sub mage if you still do not have the support to /melee. You could very well Drakesbane, do both spirt/soul jump sonic thrust, spirtlink (for 100tp) and Drakesbane again to create fusion. Try that next time, your damge will be much greater as it is the best 3 step a drg can solo (excluding anything w/ camlanns) without wasting your second weaponskill.

I do have to say I'm going to try CA skillchain sometime, just cause its fun >.>
And if you don't want to make fusion. Close it with impulse next time for darkness... cause it'll be fun....

Hmm...Just realized there might be just a little store tp issue there. In order for that to work you'll probably need a conserver tp or one of your jumps to double attack.

Just figure i'd throw this out there as well. /blu imo is the best out of the 3. also shakuzen makes a valid point with the self light. extremely easy if you play drg and know what your doing. CA Impulse Drive power attack drakesbane will close the light. and mertel it is not without its uses. i've done 5k lights while closing with a 4-5k drakes. then repeated it as soon as spirit link was up.
also impulse drive cracks 1.2k in abyssea usually. also Camlanns torment will open/ close with drakesbane and with itself.

i LOVED DRG/BLU, solo like a champ. Find a way to get a refresh and you'll go without stopping. Get your AF gear, and when your HP is down to a 1/3 use footkick (5mp) and your dragon will heal your ass in the yellow/green. Cure III at the cost of 5 mp. a simple/low refresh will keep you going forever

Drg/blu is my personal favorite. Fast, low cost spells + str and dex stat boosts and some decent defensive spells impo trumps anything /whm or /rdm offers.

Personally I like playing /RDM, just for the slight extra breathing room in safety (MP, protective spells, etc.) and the fact I get to cast multiple spells makes it a little more fun.
But I agree, that from an efficiency standpoint, /BLU is vastly superior

Drg/blu is my favorite personally as well. Though sometimes I switch between /rdm also for certain circumstances (needing barspells, sneak, invis, etc). I don't find myself needing refresh very often, because the spells are so low cost. If you can, try to get an Ethereal Earring as well, that things a godsend for dragoons subbing mage. p:

When soloing i find more useful /WHM, but its all situational, as in long battles or when fighting a link, you might run out of mp as whm, so a refresh effect could be better than a regen, or if you need a +50% defense for mobs that hits specially hard a /Blu could be the solution, the three subs are good besides preferences.

As another new DRG (just hit 30 and got my blue ethereal wings ^^) am I right in thinking that /BLU gives me a quicker way of healing my wyvern via Metallic Body and Spirit Link? It sounds a bit good to be true and my wyvern seems to have the slowest healing hp tick ever!!

I've been /RDM mostly and it's good for cheap spells like poison and quick spells like barstone for triggering HB, but it seems like it'll be much more useful at later levels than it is now. Reading this thread I'll be doing a bit of spell hunting on /BLU this week.

With the new Restoring Breath pet ability added its easier than that. Just Spirit Link and then Restoring Breath.

Restoring Breath is all the way at lvl90 though.
As for quicker, Metallic Body + Spirit Link is still affected by the recast, but you might be willing to use it more often. /RDM's Stoneskin is a bit stronger, though it comes at a later level.
/RDM does get a few nice spells later on, but BLU keeps things simple - you won't be caught up casting as much, but you also won't have Dia/Bio, spikes, en-, etc running.

Another added bonus to /BLU is the fact that you can take advantage of chain affinity to easily solo SC light/darkness:

Chain Affinity -> Impulse Drive -> Power Attack -> Drakesbane = light

Chain Affinity -> Drakesbane -> Screwdriver -> Impulse Drive = darkness

I love Drg/Blu, its always been my go to sub for doing anything low man or soloing. I always make sure to set spells to give myself auto-regen. As someone mentioned you can set sprout smack and head butt for the added effect. You can also set a few others. Wild Oats for vit down and also sandspin for acc down. Just to name a few. Also remember that by the time the level adjustments are finished we will have haste from /blu

Also if you can get a hold of a twilight mail that will help with any of your solo subs because it will give you refresh. Its not a giant tic, but it should be more then enough to keep up with spell spams.

Right now in abby my favorite atma combo is SS/RR/Apoc or can switch apoc out for another atma if you need a def or want another stat in crease. SS gives you HP major which increases wyvern hps for higher heals.

Yeah depends on the situation. If your going to get hit by a lot of status ailments, /whm
need mp or just wanna fast cast /rdm
alot of soloing and taking damage... /blu

These days, with our wyverns breath ja/ I just go /war and beat it to death before it can say anything...

It all depends on what you are soloing and where. There used to be a problem with dungeons that didnt have Tome books. This has now been fixed by their introduction. Its a case of how quick you can kill verses how fast you die. What you have merited also plays a part. Regen, Refresh and Reraises from books helps. If I sub a mage job its usually the fasts low mp expending spell I have to make the wyvern cure me. I usually solo sam for the TP feed and the quicker death to the mobs. This means you dont need to heal yourself as much because you have already killed the mobs. Ultimately its up to your playing style which route you go. There are plenty of solo options with books and food.