dDEX Curve, One Hand DPS Jobs on Endgame Content, and Player Opinions

I'm curious as to what the playerbase thinks of how the DEX stat works and if it would be preferable to change the way its handled on one-handed weapons, similar to how acc/attack from STR and DEX is given a boost on two-handed weapons, and if this would help one-handed jobs become more viable options for the some the higher-end monsters (Except for the obvious crit-resistant stuff like Paramount Botulus). I feel that instead of making DEX this weird, exponential kind of growth on one-handers, that instead critical hit rate should grow linearly on one-handed weapons, and should be given a slightly higher cap (Maybe 25% instead of 15%? Dunno).

Mostly, I feel there's a problem because the extra DEX on "light" damage jobs is mostly irrelevant for the higher-end monsters. For reference, currently a WAR typically TPs in around 100~110 DEX, while NINs typically TP in around 120 DEX and THFs and DNCs in about 140 DEX. (+about 10 to each if it's a Mithra) With typical end-game monsters having around 110+ AGI, its impractical for jobs, even the light ones, to gear specifically to increase their crit rate, as opposed to the pitiful attack/accuracy they might have on these monsters, partly because they lack the bonus that two-handed weapons get. This means that light jobs are usually only sitting around with something like 2-3% more critical hit rate than a two-hander job.

Frankly, even if one-handers maxed out the current 15% cap on crit rate from DEX without changing any of the gear they wear, they still wouldn't beat two-handed jobs under normal party buffs because of how dual wield is impacted.

Still, i can see downsides to adjusting this:
1. It might be unbalanced (heh heh...) for light jobs on weaker enemies if they could cap DEX crit rate very easily. However, I'm pretty sure currently most light jobs are capping out their crit rate on the small-fry that matter, so adjusting the way crit rate grows from DEX might not impact it as much as you think.
2. It screws up the way said jobs currently gear, potentially annoying a bunch of people that would've rather had the system kept the old way instead of having a lot of hard-earned gear turned useless, which is why I'm asking for some opinions.

Obviously all this stuff is talking about things outside Abyssea, because 1. lolAbyssea and 2. Pretty much every single job is capping dDEX in there, including mages. I do find it worth noting though, that it's only inside Abyssea, where critical hit rate is close to 100% (well, usually 75% from RR+GH), as opposed to outside where the base maximum is 25% with merits, that one-handers are (sometimes) doing better than two-hander jobs.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Kincard

With typical end-game monsters having around 110+ AGI, its impractical for jobs, even the light ones, to gear specifically to increase their crit rate,

---

That's wrong as boost dex gives +25 and lasts 5 minutes, as well as 2xmarches giving +10; so 35 total. It's actually fairly easy to adapt on any job. For 110 dex you are shooting for 160 total, so only 125 dex in gear which is going to be a joke for mithra for instance and not very difficult for other races. I'd rather have SE give /nin a boost to critical hit rate or damage which it doesn't get right now because let's be honest,

ALL 2 handed DD are inferior to monks but WAR
WAR is slightly superior to monk only when accuracy decreses and attack increases, but they have remove all of their defense (hasso) [and even then if the level correction is very high, MNK will lead as long as they cap acc because crit do more for them than for wars].

So basically trading /nin for defense while gaining some melee stats is going to help all the 2 handed DD.

Except on most endgame content your going to want /WAR for Berserk/Aggressor... even if /NIN gave those bonus I doubt it would make /NIN better than /WAR, or in WAR's case, /SAM.

Berserk is not needed, it just depends on what you are doing. Back when everything was not PD's embrava'd you had to /nin. When I farm adl pops I have to /nin, when I pop adl I have to /war. Not every thing is legion bull crap. Hell even MB is better /nin. Not everything can be reduced to a fight that last 2-3 minutes. *hopes* for salvage.

I never said it's not achievable to cap dDEX on an endgame monster- but rather, I think, is that it's a problem that it's too much of a bother to know when you should or shouldn't gear towards DEX. It's just not a reliable stat to be building for.

It wouldn't be as big a deal if we could definitively know every monster's AGI without needing to test for hours on end, because then you could coordinate your group and know when and where Boost-DEX is worth using over Boost-STR. Even if we already knew every single monster's AGI, it still takes way more effort than people care to put in to account for gaps in gear and such.

Ultimately, people will cast Boost-STR because STR is generally far more reliable increasing your damage, because it's more or less consistent. You will almost always get 1 fSTR per ~4 points of STR, it's likely you're not capping pDIF on most higher-end monsters (600 DEF monsters need 1200-1350 attack to cap pDIF, which I think is achieveable by a DRK/WAR if they have Berserk and 1 Minuet? lol), etc.

So basically, it'd be nice if you can more reliably know that "oh, this much DEX will give me this much crit rate/will increase my damage by this much" instead of having to know every single monster's exact AGI value to know when to dump more DEX on. Otherwise, it's just a lot simpler to just gear for STR and get the consistent boost.

As for adjusting /NIN, I think it was the intent for /NIN to be an inferior sub offensively. I wouldn't object to NIN being crit. attack bonus, but that's not going to save it as a sub...or as a main, for that matter, lol.

What they could do is redesign Libra for SCH, to be like Libra from other games, scan. Let it give you the stats of the enemy you target, this means HP/MP/Level/Attack/Defense/STR/DEX/VIT/AGI/INT/MND/CHR. Those 12 stats would be more than enough so players wouldn't need to painstakingly test shit for this game against the mobs. Then again, this game is filled with time sinks, and finding out how the game works is just another of them.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by MarkovChain

WAR is always superior to monk

---

Fixed that for you.

I think the entire dDex system needs to be redone. It's largely useless for crits until you get to the last 10 points. Instead it should be a gradual curve from dDex 0 to dDex 50, or a stair stepped one.

It would greatly affect the hierarchy of melee gear though, so I doubt they will ever change this. Alternatively you could give parry/evasion/guard bonus when subbing nin to stress the defensive part of the combo, or even allow counterwhen shadows are up just like sam.

The dDEX curve is fine.

They need to give 1H and 2H DDs the same Ratio cap, which isn't hit on in the OP but is the most substantial factor in determining the 1H vs. 2H DPS difference against high level content.

I dunno, don't most one-handers barely break ~1000 (At most like 1100 I would think) attack with Red Curry, Berserk and Minuets, which isn't enough to cap the one-handed cRatio on a bunch of high level stuff anyway?

Red curry, Berserk, Minuets, and Chaos Roll I'd hope. And no, that's enough to cap 1H users against pretty much anything. Toss a Dia II on it for good measure.

I mean, the difference between Dragoons and Ninjas is a few points of skill and like 25 attack from STR. Considering single Bards are capable of giving 3~4 Minuets these days (and Minuets go up to +5), I'm pretty sure that 1H DDs are still perfectly capable of capping.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Byrth

The dDEX curve is fine.

They need to give 1H and 2H DDs the same Ratio cap, which isn't hit on in the OP but is the most substantial factor in determining the 1H vs. 2H DPS difference against high level content.

---

dDex spike (its not really a curve) sucks in general. Though your correct in that the Ratio cap is by far the limiter on 1H's in zergs. Back at 75 the difference was important as 2H's weren't nearly as powerful as they are now, the DPS boost from DW / MA typically balanced things out. Now it's no contest, MNK's are the only 1H DD's that can stand in the same arena as the 2H's.

I'm sure that's because SE doesn't see any other 1h job as a DD job. I'm not entirely convinced they see DRG as a DD job.