Weather, helix, and cure IV/V

I am just wondering why jobs on /SCH can have the same spells as SCH main expect for thunder weather. I looked at the other thread about the comment on stormsuge merits and I can understand the complaint over that as well because of this issue I am posting about.

Now, If jobs can sub whm or RDM for cure IV why is our job as a main stuck on that same spell? I was expecting more of a level 99 game after I quit not a fake 99 game based on level 75 rules still.

This also goes in why not give weather II and helix II? You know spells for the job as a MAIN that can't be obtained as a sub. (You let sub all our helix spells so where is helix II? why were these spells changed to be subable anyway?)

Then I do not get why a 99 SCH requires addendum: black to cast stone IV-thunder IV when rdm can freecast them (back when it was 75 SCH freecast stone III- thunder III same as rdm)

Stone IV - thunder IV under Addendum: black at 75 is fine, at 99 it is stupid.

Please break all the level 75 rule mentally, thank you.

Sounds good.

Give all whm spells to sch, delete whm. Problem solved.

Hmm well if they give sch cure V even though addendum:white, then need to change some rules.

cure V enmity rules needs to be put on cure VI and make cure VI more mp efficient.

If this does happens that is an easy fix, or change how much cure V and VI cure for.

I just do not get why a main job that has cure spells is the same line as a sub.

They didn't change helixes so they could be on /sch they changed them cause they changed their ideal
For sch(again). They lowered helix level to define sch as a Support Mage (to mirror Regen).

So actually the change was so that main sch would get them earlier. They gimped the duration when using it as a sub so main sch version would be stronger. Sadly no one uses helix outside of VW proc anymore so it had the negative side effect of getting sch kicked out of that.

And who cares about if you get the spells easier.

there is 3 stages in the game
The time you spend leveling 1 to 30
The time you spend leeching 31-99
Endamge.


So that update for that reason is pointless. What I care about is that the spells that was suppose to define the job is available on sub now.

so fix it by giving us II versions, heck there is even a gravity II spell now.

Not everybody leeches 30-99, book burns still happen and old style parties are extremely rare, but happen.

However, I don't see a point having these spells earlier either, as I don't think it's advantageous to a SCH for two reasons:

In book burns, you get an invite if they're got a free spot and you are the right level and you're able to contribute well without them. Your advantage is stratagems.

For old style parties, which is how I levelled my SCH in the first place, before you get your first helix it's all about your stratagems and (later) weather spells. At 40+ I would mix black and white magic, even when main healer just because I could get away with it. Once I got a helix, yes, it added more to the job, but it was something I looked forward to trying out when levelling. And of course such parties are no longer relevent.

Throughout levelling SCH you get nice little things to add on that make the job different as you go on and it's not all about being a WHM/BLM hybrid.

However, if it could make way for tier IIs, then it's a lot more understable.

I would not have a clue about that because i had all jobs at 75 before abyssea.

Anyways helping how you exp is small compared to how endgame jobs compare to each other.

I was 75 SCH when we had III spells so to me those spells define the job along with weather.

If we are not being used for 2 hr then a whm/sch and a blm/sch makes are job totally useless. All our roles are taken over off sub and where is the balance with that? Those jobs are usually in an ally anyway so now it is like, we do not need a sch just be blm -.-


So I return to the game to see my job only wanted for 2 hr, fun.

Yes, 2hr and Modus Veritas, when it decides to work. At least they reduced the recast on that one. But I agree with your sentiments there. As I suggested in another thread, the 3 things that should make us unique are: Stratagems, HoTs/DoTs and Weather. I think stratagems are fine as they are, HoTs have had a good improvement IMO (new regens), but it's DoTs and Weather than still need work to bring Scholar out as a Scholar IMO and not have it as a wannabe WHM or wannabe BLM with an awesome 2hr. ;) In fact, I don't want Cure V because I want to be less like a WHM. Mostly throughout Abyssea I was a secondary healer or main healer on weaker NMs, which is not why I picked SCH as a main (I could have just levelled a WHM instead and would have been more useful) Still, I enjoy the job, I do try to use SCH's exclusive stuff to make it more interesting and I always make sure to regain people, even if it's only 1tp/tick.

Not so sure about more recent endgame, only done VW as a COR and not had a chance to do Legion or Neo Nyzul since coming back.

I want cure V for the same reason I want weather II spells and level II helix spells.

A main mage job should not have the same spells as a sub.

It did not happen at 75 so why does it exist now?
Cure V and cure VI needs different rules so pld and rdm has reasons to have it as well.

Cure V will never happen, SE has already stated that no other job out side of whm (other than a pup's puppet) will ever have more than cure IV, which is why the "buffed" the curing spells in general.

Helix II would be nice to have, though with the way content is now I don't see how useful they would be when mobs (even NMs) die in relatively short times.

Weather II most definitely esp if they bolster the stormsurge merits giving them a higher stat-boost than the -Boost spells.

I guess that's a fair argument. Essentially you want them to bring SCH's cure spells up to scratch, but of course, do it without it stepping on WHM's toes. I wouldn't want to encourage the idea that SCH should be a replacement WHM, I would like to see SCH's healing ability improved, yet at the same time, make better use of its own unique abilities. I suppose the introduction of Cure V (with different rules) would mean less spamming & and that could mean you're sneakily casting a helix or a weather spell. Kind of like how I used to play when levelling and that worked quite nicely in my opinion.

However, I'm not sure exactly how SE would change the rules to benefit everybody in that way. As a 95, I've not tried out Regen V yet, so that might actually be the answer to improving healing I have been looking for.

yeah they need to change V and VI to fit that really. I could even say make healing magic skill matter more for IV was another idea.

The only reason that can be a fix is because /sch does not get cure IV so main's base cure IV can be higher then sub (i would say base cure more for like 100 more hp then off sub)

I don't necessarily care for Cure V anymore after Regen V and the healing skill changes. But I do agree that there needs to be more distinction between mage main jobs and sub jobs, particularly in the realm of abilities added 76-99.

That goes for all mage jobs really. Adloquium, storms, Animus, Libra, Cure VI, Comet, Gravity II etc. all need much more potency, utility or efficiency to make them job defining, fun and worthwhile. For me, every one was a case of getting excited when I read the job update notes, then sighing later as I had no real reason to use them. Meanwhile, the abilities that opened up from 38-49 sub made a huge impact - Convert/Refresh/Accession/Haste, etc. That was backwards and disappointing to me.

I know people make the claim that underpowered 76-99 abilities were intentional so SE could balance with merits and other adjustments later. I say find something new and interesting to keep me playing later, but still offer new spells that have some teeth with their introduction, not four years later. Ugh.

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Originally Posted by Merton9999

I know people make the claim that underpowered 76-99 abilities were intentional so SE could balance with merits and other adjustments later. I say find something new and interesting to keep me playing later, but still offer new spells that have some teeth with their introduction, not four years later. Ugh.

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looks at GS ws...
*looks again*

Riiiigggghhhhtttt.....
I was going to refute this by pointing to what melees got but that would be off topic.

But yes the progress is backwards... it is like SE turned FFXI into FFXIV when that game was new ( you know where both mage jobs could equip the other mage jobs spells so there was no real difference between them)

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Originally Posted by Rambus

But yes the progress is backwards... it is like SE turned FFXI into FFXIV when that game was new ( you know where both mage jobs could equip the other mage jobs spells so there was no real difference between them)

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So what was SCH's utility at 75 cap, beyond MP conservation and phalanxga? Modus Veritas burn isn't allowed because that was patched like hell. Am I missing some secret?

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Originally Posted by Plasticleg

So what was SCH's utility at 75 cap, beyond MP conservation and phalanxga? Modus Veritas burn isn't allowed because that was patched like hell. Am I missing some secret?

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Was more useful than BLM... but that was it.

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Originally Posted by Rambus

I am just wondering why jobs on /SCH can have the same spells as SCH main expect for thunder weather. I looked at the other thread about the comment on stormsuge merits and I can understand the complaint over that as well because of this issue I am posting about.

Now, If jobs can sub whm or RDM for cure IV why is our job as a main stuck on that same spell? I was expecting more of a level 99 game after I quit not a fake 99 game based on level 75 rules still.

This also goes in why not give weather II and helix II? You know spells for the job as a MAIN that can't be obtained as a sub. (You let sub all our helix spells so where is helix II? why were these spells changed to be subable anyway?)

Then I do not get why a 99 SCH requires addendum: black to cast stone IV-thunder IV when rdm can freecast them (back when it was 75 SCH freecast stone III- thunder III same as rdm)

Stone IV - thunder IV under Addendum: black at 75 is fine, at 99 it is stupid.

Please break all the level 75 rule mentally, thank you.

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Because RDM actually learned how to use them, SCH only reads them temporarily from a book, it's kind of been how they are since introduction.

Cure IV is balanced enough it's near useless subjob now.

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Originally Posted by Rambus

And who cares about if you get the spells easier.

there is 3 stages in the game
The time you spend leveling 1 to 30
The time you spend leeching 31-99
Endamge.


So that update for that reason is pointless. What I care about is that the spells that was suppose to define the job is available on sub now.

so fix it by giving us II versions, heck there is even a gravity II spell now.

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You did not just use SE's troll spell to RDM as a reasoning for a stronger, useful spell.

SCH is already the 2nd best healer in the game, how could they improve on that without pushing WHM aside?
The new cure formula plays right into SCH`s hands with weather boosts whenever they please. They don't have cure V because, frankly, they don't even need it.

With Regen-ga V on your DD`s you find yourself less inclined to cure them unless they take a big hit to the face anyway, so most of the time a cure III is enough.

Also, in regards to why RDM can freecast tier 4 spells and SCH can only use them under Arts. Look at your elemental skill with no Arts up, then look at RDM`s. RDM has the skill for T4 at 99, SCH doesn't unless using Dark Arts.

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Originally Posted by Calatilla

SCH is already the 2nd best healer in the game, how could they improve on that without pushing WHM aside?
The new cure formula plays right into SCH`s hands with weather boosts whenever they please. They don't have cure V because, frankly, they don't even need it.

With Regen-ga V on your DD`s you find yourself less inclined to cure them unless they take a big hit to the face anyway, so most of the time a cure III is enough.

Also, in regards to why RDM can freecast tier 4 spells and SCH can only use them under Arts. Look at your elemental skill with no Arts up, then look at RDM`s. RDM has the skill for T4 at 99, SCH doesn't unless using Dark Arts.

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and at 75 we freecasted the same spells so that makes no sense unless it was forgetting to upgrade that. The level cap rasing was rushed and a lit of the game still feels like it is based off 75 rules so..

Addendum: Black gave IV spells while Addendum: white gave na spells, I think SE did this so it would resist playing a whm and blm at once. It has nothing to do with skill values as you said. We got to access the highest level of nukes or nas but not both at once, unless you want to be a sch/whm without a mab trait..

moving on.

At 75 it was for the next line of spells, not next two lines like it is at 99. makes no sense that we need Addendum: Black for IV spells at 99

Also the killer note to your theory is look at dark knight who has a higher skill then rdm does. at 75 they get T-II spells and sch and rdm freecasted III spells despite the lower skill. so make it the same as 99 where we should freecast IV spells, a tier higher then drk's now III spells

If there is a new formula for cure then I am not aware and I never found regen spells that useful if you are getting hit for almost all your hp so you need cure V.
^
Keep in mind i am speaking more how the game was at 75 and when tanks typically took lot of damage. I see people use them AoEing them and in the end it does not seem useful, if you are going to take 900 damage your still gonna cast cure V

And I did address it without pushing whm aside, i really think the rules on the spell lines need to be changed to fit the game more I/E more to cure VI then anything like lowering mp cost. If cure V was handed to the jobs just to say they got a real upgrade and not casting a spell anyone can un sub then cure V's rules need to be changed.

Looking up clear mind recently because of the retarded shouts im seeing, I also do not get why we have clear mind V with SMN unless wiki is out of date. In the past SMN always had the highest clear mind and now everyone has V. Does SE think it would be over powered give higher clear mind traits? I mean 1-75 always have upgrades so why is 76-99 so much different? I still think that idea was rushed and not well thought out in breaking all the rules the game had at 75. The list I gave was trying to address some of that.

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Originally Posted by Rambus

and at 75 we freecasted the same spells so that makes no sense unless it was forgetting to upgrade that. The level cap rasing was rushed and a lit of the game still feels like it is based off 75 rules so..

Addendum: Black gave IV spells while Addendum: white gave na spells, I think SE did this so it would resist playing a whm and blm at once. It has nothing to do with skill values as you said. We got to access the highest level of nukes or nas but not both at once, unless you want to be a sch/whm without a mab trait..

moving on.

At 75 it was for the next line of spells, not next two lines like it is at 99. makes no sense that we need Addendum: Black for IV spells at 99

Also the killer note to your theory is look at dark knight who has a higher skill then rdm does. at 75 they get T-II spells and sch and rdm freecasted III spells despite the lower skill. so make it the same as 99 where we should freecast IV spells, a tier higher then drk's now III spells

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I personally think it's fine that tier 4 spells still require addendum black. Not only does it fall in line with what SCH is based on, which is drawing knowledge and strength from Grimoires, but it also encourages specific play styles because constantly swapping between Addendum White and Black becomes a strain on strategems. It's somewhat like BLU's spell reset timer but not nearly as annoying. People often forget that jobs are supposed to have negative sides to them. Having some spells locked is one of them when it comes to SCH. When all is said and done, a SCH could likely still outnuke a RDM using just helix spells and tier 3 nukes, anyways.

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If there is a new formula for cure then I am not aware and I never found regen spells that useful if you are getting hit for almost all your hp so you need cure V.
^
Keep in mind i am speaking more how the game was at 75 and when tanks typically took lot of damage. I see people use them AoEing them and in the end it does not seem useful, if you are going to take 900 damage your still gonna cast cure V

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Well... You're aware now, because they revamped cures to the point where they do approximately 40% more with capped healing magic.

My Cure IV heals 910+ outside Abyssea and I only have something like +42% Cure Potency (Cure III does 478ish). With Rapture my Cure IV does 1470ish. If someone is gonna take 900 damage I'm gonna cast Cure IV. If they take more than that I Rapture it. And if a whole group needs healing then you Accession it. SCH doesn't need Cure V. The only benefit would be the low enmity it produces.

Regens are useful too. With the Empyrean +2 hat, a SCH's Regen1 is as potent as a bare WHM's Regen IV (Light Arts of course). Regen V itself is 69 HP/tick, and when used with Perpetuance, lasts 4.5 mins for a total of 6210 potential HP recovered. That Regen'd HP adds up, and it's foolish not to cast them. In fact, I'd say it's about as foolish as a WHM not using Afflatus Solace.

Also, it doesn't matter if other jobs can sub Cure IV because other jobs can't do what SCH can with a Cure IV, or even come close to it (Divine Seal is kinda on a 10 minute timer so I don't really count that...).

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Looking up clear mind recently because of the retarded shouts im seeing, I also do not get why we have clear mind V with SMN unless wiki is out of date. In the past SMN always had the highest clear mind and now everyone has V. Does SE think it would be over powered give higher clear mind traits? I mean 1-75 always have upgrades so why is 76-99 so much different? I still think that idea was rushed and not well thought out in breaking all the rules the game had at 75. The list I gave was trying to address some of that.

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Since this was easy to test, I jumped onto the Test Server to level my SMN to 99 instantly and rested on both SCH and SMN. When the first MP recovery happened I gained 30 MP on both SCH and SMN (Both naked of course). So I assume there's a Clear Mind VI in there somewhere, and obviously all mages have it.

For the record, at Lv75 both BLM and SMN have Clear Mind V, so it wasn't just a SMN thing.

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When the first MP recovery happened I gained 30 MP on both SCH and SMN (Both naked of course). So I assume there's a Clear Mind VI in there somewhere, and obviously all mages have it.

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????? where? how can you assume that when you just pointed out clear mind V?

SMN had clear mind V at 70 and yes the game was 70 at one point and even at 75 when blm and SMN can clear mind V, whm was on clear mind IV with scholar.

now everyone is clear mind V except blu and i go whhhhhhhhhhhhhhhy? *also pointing to the fact RDM has been on clear mind III since 75 though I have not tested it

And what is this about only '46 cure potency..."
*old man voice*
back in my day only whms had cure potency and that was from a 10-60 mil body and a staff, everyone else just got the staff. I do not have this new fanged 99 gear since i just returned to the game...

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I personally think it's fine that tier 4 spells still require addendum black. Not only does it fall in line with what SCH is based on, which is drawing knowledge and strength from Grimoires, but it also encourages specific play styles because constantly swapping between Addendum White and Black becomes a strain on strategems. It's somewhat like BLU's spell reset timer but not nearly as annoying. People often forget that jobs are supposed to have negative sides to them. Having some spells locked is one of them when it comes to SCH. When all is said and done, a SCH could likely still outnuke a RDM using just helix spells and tier 3 nukes, anyways.

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I don't. I do not feel it fits the level progress past 75.
at 75 we got a tier higher then drk (who has better elemental skill then rdm and sch)
at 75 we free casted the same spells rdm has
at 99 we did not grow in our freecasted spells while rdm and drk has.
why?

I am glad SE did something to fix healing skill but that does not change my mind about getting weather/helix II because they are all subbed now, or that we should get T4 nukes off addendum black. Example:

Scroll of stone IV:
BLM 68/SCH 76/RDM 77/
SCH 70 ( addendum black)

Thunder III:
BLM 66/ RDM 75/ DRK 96/SCH 69

So it fits the level progress of braking 75... why have a game at 99 that does not truly progress everything then it had at 75?

SCH main gets an enhanced potency + merits for helix macc/mab.

They had the addendum restrictions so that SCH had some sort of limiting factor when it came to their utility (that being time).

Clear Mind and it's tiers are pretty irrelevant to any current content, especially for SCH. With the amount of refresh and sublimation enhancement gear it has access to, I would be pressed to say that your group is already screwed if a a good SCH ever had to rest.

No, SCH is not in a "great" state at the moment with the incoming Embrava nerf, but with the addition of Tranquil Heart, Convert from RDM sub, refresh +8 gear, enhanced regen through light arts, and lower Stratagem charges, the only thing a WHM would have over SCH is Curaga, Arise (lol), an easier time at capping Cure cast speed, and Cureskin.

SCH has benefited from the cap rises, just not in the way you wanted it to.

Rising tide sinks all ships etc etc.

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Originally Posted by Rambus

????? where? how can you assume that when you just pointed out clear mind V?

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All I said is Clear Mind VI (As in, 6) exists. I know so because Clear Mind V is 27 MP on the first MP recovery while resting, and I gained 30 MP while resting on the test server as both SCH and SMN. If SCH gets Clear Mind VI I can assume that BLM and WHM does as well because they always got Clear Mind traits before or at the same time as SCH.

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SMN had clear mind V at 70 and yes the game was 70 at one point and even at 75 when blm and SMN can clear mind V, whm was on clear mind IV with scholar.

now everyone is clear mind V except blu and i go whhhhhhhhhhhhhhhy? *also pointing to the fact RDM has been on clear mind III since 75 though I have not tested it

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The answer is because MP is just as important to SCH and WHM as it is to SMN and BLM. The jobs are simply useless without it. SMN hasn't lost anything with other jobs having the same level of Clear Mind. Resting for MP isn't all that important anymore though.

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And what is this about only '46 cure potency..."
*old man voice*
back in my day only whms had cure potency and that was from a 10-60 mil body and a staff, everyone else just got the staff. I do not have this new fanged 99 gear since i just returned to the game...

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I was around during those days too. And what the game was like back then doesn't really mean anything because it's in the past. If you've just returned to the game you should take the time to see what has been changed, and I say that because it's just useful to know. WHM can easily get +50% Cure Potency, and SCH can hit that amount as well, although not as easily. WHM is, of course, still the best healer in the game as it should be, but SCH is in a comfortable 2nd place.

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I don't. I do not feel it fits the level progress past 75.
at 75 we got a tier higher then drk (who has better elemental skill then rdm and sch)
at 75 we free casted the same spells rdm has
at 99 we did not grow in our freecasted spells while rdm and drk has.
why?

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Technically DRK and SCH are tied in Elemental Skill if the SCH is using Dark Arts. And the only time SCH is going to cast nukes is when it's using Dark Arts.

I suppose I should've just originally said that this is just a game, and trying to apply logic to game mechanics and balance is only going to cause frustrations. For all we know the answer from the devs could simply be "Because we said so," but I think it's more of an issue with game balance (We all hate that word but sometimes it is necessary I suppose...).

I unfortunately don't work for SE so I cannot answer your "why?" with 100% certainty, but I can certainly give my best speculation.

When you play Scholar, you can tell it was meant to be something like a BLM and WHM in one, but never at the same time. Addendum Black is obviously BLM mode and Addendum White is WHM mode. A WHM cannot cast nukes without /blm much less tier 4-5 nukes, while a BLM cannot cast -na spells and the like without /whm. It's my best guess that tier4+ nukes aren't actually "Scholar" spells, but rather a bonus for choosing to specialise in something. Likewise with Addendum White.

As far as RDM is concerned, it full times all it's spells without any negative effects. It can freely cast tier 4 nukes but at the same time, it will always ONLY cast tier 4 nukes. It can always use these spells, but it will never get stronger either like SCH can with it's mode switching. That is RDM's pro/con (Unfortunately RDM is just a bag full of cons these days...).

I personally consider choosing to stick with the basic Light Arts and Dark Arts is "True Scholar" mode as it allows oneself to more easily swap between the two with little loss. You can still deal a good amount of damage with just tier 3 nukes and helix spells, and can still heal quite nicely too.

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I am glad SE did something to fix healing skill but that does not change my mind about getting weather/helix II because they are all subbed now, or that we should get T4 nukes off addendum black.

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I will agree that I'd like to see Storm II spells or something similar like an Iridescence spell or even Iridescence traits (More weather bonus). Helix II spells would be cool too but I'm not entirely sure it's necessary because of the recent changes to helix spells. It is true that all jobs can sub helix spells now, but they're terribly nerfed in comparison to what a SCH main can do with them. I mean, they probably can't even do 10% the damage of a SCH main's helix. As a SCH I can often land helix spells for 300-500 which amounts to around 5400 - 9000 damage over time for only 25ish MP. More damage is always nice but helix spells kinda already do a ton for their cost. Only thing I can think of is if Helix II spells dealt similar amounts of damage but a lot faster, which would be nice.

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Originally Posted by Muras

All I said is Clear Mind VI (As in, 6) exists. I know so because Clear Mind V is 27 MP on the first MP recovery while resting, and I gained 30 MP while resting on the test server as both SCH and SMN. If SCH gets Clear Mind VI I can assume that BLM and WHM does as well because they always got Clear Mind traits before or at the same time as SCH.

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I thought clear mind V did start at 30 mp, anyways maybe just me but i would think at 99 SMN would have the highest one and only be the job that has it. I know it does not matter much but i still want this feeling of a 75 game to be gone (kinda hard to do when there is still a lot of stuff that depends on 75 content though)

for the IV nukes off addendum back at 75, I just think they forgot or just did not want to add it despite logic saying it should be like that.

I do not see how helix would be much different from sub and main but those merits and i think it is 10 mab? Maybe I been gone to long to know about all these changes but at first it did not seem much changed. and 25 mp? i thought it was like 60 or something???


Still at the very least give us weather II and that will also address that boost str problem.

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Originally Posted by Rambus

I do not see how helix would be much different from sub and main but those merits and i think it is 10 mab? Maybe I been gone to long to know about all these changes but at first it did not seem much changed. and 25 mp? i thought it was like 60 or something???

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Just out of curiousity, how long have you been gone? ^^; I'll try to sum up the overall changes SCH got though...

Quite a few updates ago they did some major revamps on SCH. They lowered the levels that SCH gains Regen so that it learns all Regen spells before WHM (At Lv75 SCH didn't even get Regen III, but now SCH learns it at Lv59, and WHM does not learn Regen V making it a SCH only spell), and buffed the potency of SCH's Regen while Light Arts is active. For example, without Light Arts Regen1 normally does 5 HP/tick, but with Light Arts it does 29 HP/tick. Likewise, with Regen V, it normally does 40 per tick, but with Light arts it does 64. It can further be boosted to 69 with the Empyrean +2 hat. Oh, and every Regen spell lasts 48 seconds longer with Light Arts up as well, so with Perpetuance and SCH's Empyrean +2 hands you can make Regen V last 4.5 mins totalling 6210 potential HP recovery.

Along with the Regens they buffed helix spells too. Originally at Lv75, and before the update of course, Helix spells lasted only approximately 1 minute and did pretty mediocre damage. They also cost somewhere around 60-70 MP. After the update though, with Dark Arts up, a helix spell will last up to 2 minutes and 48 seconds and gain a damage bonus too. Generally this lasts for 18 ticks so if you initially do 400ish damage it's 7200 damage in total if the mob lives long enough. And of course, the MP cost has been lowered to 26 MP which is 24 MP with Dark Arts (I was off 1 MP when I said 25 earlier :P ).

It should be pointed out that these bonuses to helix and regen spells from their respective arts DO NOT work when used as a subjob, which is why helix spells in particular are so much weaker from other jobs.

Aside from those specific changes to SCH itself, Regen spells had their cast time reduced quite a bit, which effects all jobs. Along with the cure potency changes, SCH has been beefed up a lot. I probably don't need to mention this since it's quite hard to miss, but SCH was also given 2 hour specific spells, Embrava (Super HP/TP/Haste spell) and Kaustra (Super DoT spell, similar to helix spells but damage occurs every 3 seconds instead of 9).

So yeah, like I said, I'd welcome storm II spells or a spell that further enhances the bonus received from weather. But overall, SCH is pretty powerful when used well.

Sch does not need cure V we already be the numbers whm can pop on cure IV when they are capped CP, capped healing magic, and with as much mnd they can find. And we are uncapped CP uncapped healing magic and with much lower mnd then them just because of light weather+ twilight cape, obi, and the new staff's(which btw adds all up to +25% weather bounse ie. double weather) we smahs there tiny cure IV's. if we had cure V it theres no way Whm(the healing magic job) would beat a sch cureing power.

Sch is doing fine we have double weather(with gearing right) we have powerful helixs(although underutilized) and excellent Healing(with proper use of spells and ja's)

Only problem is we aren't known as Sch at the moment just the Crack dealer embrava has turned us into

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Originally Posted by Caketime

Give all whm spells to sch, delete whm. Problem solved.

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I think what you meant to say is to delete RDM altogether since SCH is pretty much taking over RDM enhancing and crowd control abilities (graviga + bindga) while WHM seems to be able to debuff mobs just fine. On another corner BLU pretty much taking over the RDM melee capabilities and able to perform many things that RDM can't even touch.

They really need to boost the storm spells instead of a bonus of 7 to increase it to 14 and increase the duration. They also need to boost Adloquim TP gain spells to 3 tp gain in lieu of Embrava nerf. Whm still have the cureskin benefits plus Cure 4-6 and all those Cura + Curagas spells to ensure party will live long enough to survive. But yeah apart from the Embrava nerf, I say SCH is a very nice jobs when played correctly.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Rambus

I am just wondering why jobs on /SCH can have the same spells as SCH main expect for thunder weather. I looked at the other thread about the comment on stormsuge merits and I can understand the complaint over that as well because of this issue I am posting about.

Now, If jobs can sub whm or RDM for cure IV why is our job as a main stuck on that same spell? I was expecting more of a level 99 game after I quit not a fake 99 game based on level 75 rules still.

This also goes in why not give weather II and helix II? You know spells for the job as a MAIN that can't be obtained as a sub. (You let sub all our helix spells so where is helix II? why were these spells changed to be subable anyway?)

Then I do not get why a 99 SCH requires addendum: black to cast stone IV-thunder IV when rdm can freecast them (back when it was 75 SCH freecast stone III- thunder III same as rdm)

Stone IV - thunder IV under Addendum: black at 75 is fine, at 99 it is stupid.

Please break all the level 75 rule mentally, thank you.

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you do know that helix get a substantional boost in dmg as a MAIN sch with dark arts up? (/sch gets no boost whatsoever and the spell is arsed)
The same happens to the Regen I-V SCH main gets a boost in regen spells with Light Arts up.
I really dont see a problem, Adloqium is exclusi (granted it could use a buff from 1 regain per tic to 3) and the 2 enmity spells. Granted the Enmity spells are useless atm, but when we get "hopefully" an enmity and tanking fix, they might prove quiet usable.

I dont expect zomg wtf uber exclusiv spells for SCH, the job is so versatile and excells so good at almost everything.