Blade: Hi setup

i am far from a kannagi, however, i would like to know how kannagi owners gear for blade hi, include atma, preferrably an inside and outside if abyssea sets

My own sets are pretty straightforward. I do not go as far as some might. I do not change sets based on buffs from bards/corsairs etc.

In Abyssea with Apoc/GH/RR

Offhand: Kamome
Ranged: Qirmiz
Head: MKE Head with STR4 WSAcc15 AGI4 WSDamage +2%
Neck: Soil Gorget (I would use a hope torque in place of this, as I know I can stand to use the attack, but I do not own one)
LEar: Brutal
Rear: Centaurus
Body: Loki's Kaftan
Hands: Seiryu's Kote
LRing: Breeze Ring (I would change these rings to more AGI if I cared to pay overpriced amounts for AGI7 rings)
RRing: Breeze Ring
Back: Atheling Mantle
Waist: Anguinus Belt
Legs: Usukane Hizayoroi (I would use Ambusher's Hose here but I haven't bothered going after the horse. It called me fat last time I fought it.)
Feet: Hachiryu Sune-Ate

I could probably stand to make a few changes in that set, but I believe they'd be fairly marginal at the moment so for now that's where I stand inside Abyssea.

Outside of Abyssea the only thing that changes...

LRing: Rajas
Rring: Strigoi Ring

I've considered toying around with a dab of more STR and DEX outside of abyssea. But for now this works for me.

I've been putting some thought into this recently. I'm inclined to think that the following is the best, outside Abyssea.

Code:

Main Kannagi Sub Kamome Head Maat's Cap Body Iga Ningi +2 Hands Iga Tekko +2 Legs Usukane Hizayoroi Feet Lithe Boots Neck Hope Torque Waist Warwolf Belt Back Atheling Mantle Ear1 Centaurus Earring Ear2 Brutal Earring Ring1 Epona's Ring Ring2 Rajas Ring

There are a few reasons why I choose this build. To begin with, mobs outside of Abyssea, the higher level ones you'd be fighting at least, are going to have a defense of between 350~400. This means you'll need 700~800 attack to cap your cRatio. It takes +52 STR over the mobs VIT to cap fSTR and +50 DEX over the mobs AGI to cap dDEX. Here's some more data regarding attributes/stats with the different gear.

Code:

Slot STR DEX AGI DA TA Attack Accuracy Base 87 81 81 10 0 388 353 Main 0 0 15 0 0 0 0 Sub 0 0 0 0 0 8 8 Ammo 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 Back 0 0 0 3 0 20 0 Ear1 0 0 0 0 0 10 0 Ear2 0 0 0 5 0 0 0 Neck 0 0 5 0 0 7 6.3 Head 7 7 7 0 0 0 0 Body 12 12 0 0 0 17 17 Hands 0 10 10 0 0 0 8 Legs 5 5 0 0 0 10 0 Feet 0 6 6 0 0 0 0 Waist 5 5 0 0 0 0 0 Ring1 0 0 0 3 3 0 0 Ring2 5 5 0 0 0 0 0 Food 7 0 0 0 0 23% 0 Total 128 121 124 21 3 524 452

This is for a 90 Hume NIN/WAR with 5 STR merits and 8 Katana merits. The total attack did not take food or Berserk effects into consideration. With food up, you're at 644 attack. With food and Berserk up, you're at 805 Attack. So you're just barely hitting the cRatio max in a lot of cases (with Berserk up) rendering more Attack useless. Accuracy is also going to be capped, it caps much more easily than Attack. Mobs would need at least 77 VIT to uncap fSTR and 71 DEX to uncap dDEX, which is just above what Limbus and Dynamis mobs have (I think, might be wrong.)

I've a little bit divided over the waist, to be honest. Anguinus Belt is a great piece, 15 Attack and 1 DA is quite a bit, although I'm not sure if it's worth it because dDEX is close to uncapping and losing those first few points of dDEX results in a considerable critical hit rate loss.

Alternatively, a more attack heavy build might be nice to have while Berserk isn't up (or when you don't even have access to it, i.e. DNC subjob.) I have yet to brood over what that might be though, or even do the math to see if it could be worthwhile. It's more of a gut feeling.

Also, Epona's Ring might be replaced by Stormsoul Ring. Before the ring, you'll have a base Double Attack rating of 18%. Because this can proc on both main and sub, it equates to an average of +0.36 fTP (assuming 100% accuracy, which will be done for everything else in this comparison.) Blade: Hi is going to have a base fTP of 4.0 + 1.0, thus your average fTP is 4.0+1.0+0.36=5.36. Epona's is going to bring your Double Attack rate up to 21% and introduce a 3% Triple Attack rate. Assuming that Triple Attack procs overwrite Double Attack procs (going to be a small difference either way) yields an increase of 0.53 fTP for a total of 5.53, or a 3.13% marginal gain. WD, under capped fSTR conditions and 124 AGI is equal to 144. Stormsoul Ring will bump this up to 148, which is only 2.78% marginal gain. Your WD, pre ring, would need to be around 128 before these two gains were equal (which I don't think is going to occur outside of Abyssea.) However, if your pre ring AGI total ends in a 3 or an 8, then Breezesoul will add 5 to your WD, which is at least a 3.47% marginal gain.

I don't think Loki's Kaftan is a good choice outside of Abyssea. Although the critical attack bonus yields a higher marginal outside of Abyssea (due to no Razed Ruins), a much lower base critical hit rate is going to bring the overall marginal gain down by quite a bit. It's impossible to say without knowledge of how Blade: Hi critical hit rate is affected by 100%/200%/300% TP, but the 6/7 WD increase and occasional critical attack bonus is probably surpassed by 17(23) attack, maybe 3 fSTR, and 5%+ (to dDEX) that Iga Ningi +2 provides.

Good call, I think I'm gonna gank that setup with a bit of a change... no maat's cap. :D

Mojo,

You obviously know what you are talking about -

However being a single hit ws, doesn't Blade: Hi already get a crit hit and accuracy bonus? I can understand where your coming from and the math side of the game is the part I hate doing, so please do correct me if I am wrong here. I thought the general rule for what is technically "correct" in a sense is to basically do this:

Single Hit WS = Stack on loads of modifiers
Multi-hit WS = Stack on loads of attack & accuracy.

As I said, please do correct me if I am wrong about this.

*edit* Just re-read your post and saw you mention DA. I only just found out recently that DA can proc during a WS which I never knew til a few weeks ago. That's why you get those random crazy damage weapon skills. Valid point and never thought about DA.

The first hit of any weapon skill gains the accuracy bonus. I'm pretty sure that's what ended up as the consensus.

The stack on loads of mods came from not 'needing' accuracy. And the most popular one hit weapon skills come with an inherent attack->defense bonus. So all that's left for them is to load mods. Blade: Hi does not gain such an attack bonus as far as I can tell.

The biggest bonus is the crit hit on the main hit. And as Mojo stated with the gear choices. It's not a bad idea to gear toward that.

I notice everyone says they wear that Crit Damage Tathlum... does this mean I'm the only NIN left in the game who still uses Ungur? XD

Quote:

Originally Posted by Orenwald

I notice everyone says they wear that Crit Damage Tathlum... does this mean I'm the only NIN left in the game who still uses Ungur? XD

I still use it :P you're not alone in this world.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Faule

The first hit of any weapon skill gains the accuracy bonus. I'm pretty sure that's what ended up as the consensus.

The stack on loads of mods came from not 'needing' accuracy. And the most popular one hit weapon skills come with an inherent attack->defense bonus. So all that's left for them is to load mods. Blade: Hi does not gain such an attack bonus as far as I can tell.

The biggest bonus is the crit hit on the main hit. And as Mojo stated with the gear choices. It's not a bad idea to gear toward that.

Ah yep fair call. I have quite a bit of attk and crit hit gear from a few of my other jobs that I will test when the game goes live again.

Interesting none the less.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Alderin

I still use it :P you're not alone in this world.

huzzah, I feel less bad now. I haven't even bothered to get that Tathlum because it doesn't have EVA+8 nor can I throw it @.@

Tathlum unless you need the evasion.

Generally speaking, if you're NIN, you're likely /WAR, and Provoke serves the same purpose as a ranged attack.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ryozen

Tathlum unless you need the evasion.

Generally speaking, if you're NIN, you're likely /WAR, and Provoke serves the same purpose as a ranged attack.

My ungur gives me 7 more yalms and 5 more TP than provoke, just sayin' xD

... that and I like to throw my boomerwanger, lemeealone ;_;

I still keep Ungur's Boomerang handy. It's good for soloing, although I've generally never used it inside of Abyssea due to how awesome Qirmiz Tathlum becomes in there.

In regards to difference weaponskill bonuses and the like~

Any weaponskill that can crit has some kind of bonus to the critical hit rate based on TP. Something like +10%/+30%/+50% critical hit rate on 100/200/300 TP would be an example of what I mean. This will be added onto your base critical hit rate, which is determined by dDEX (capping out at +20% critical hit rate when you have 50 more DEX than the mob's AGI), merits (+4%), and misc. pieces of gear. Each weaponskill can be different and there are exceptions. True Strike, for example, has a 100% critical hit rate and the accuracy of the WS varies with TP. I remember reading a general rule of thumb I remember coming across on Studio Gobli for most crit modified weaponskills, but I can't remember what it was and I don't remember where I found it...

Either way, base critical hit rate is going to be much lower outside of Abyssea so pieces like Loki's Kaftan take a huge hit. The damage increase a weaponskill receives is still on par with a normal hit (pDIF +1.) At it's worst (when your cRatio is maxed), a crit will increase your overall damage by around 40%~ or so. So it's definitely nice to have, although without an precise understand of how Blade: Hi's critical hit rate changes with TP, it will be difficult to actually quantify the benefit of a lot of gear.

As far as accuracy goes, all weaponskills receive an accuracy bonus to their first hit. That was the reasoning behind the general rule of thumb about not worrying about accuracy for single hit weaponskills as much as multihit. However, no weaponskill is going to benefit from having more accuracy than is needed to achieve 95% melee accuracy. This occurs easily on non Abyssea mobs without trying for it, so I don't even consider it.

There's no rule as far as attack vs secondary mods go. This idea was popularized by MNKs because the secondary mods are low for Asuran Fists (10% STR 10% VIT.) In their case, there was very little benefit to stacking those attributes while attack would still provide a steady increase in damage (like it does for every other weaponskill.) However, each weaponskill is different. Victory Smite, for instance, has a 60% STR mod. There is a huge gain in stacking STR for that. There's going to be a balance that's changes for each weaponskill and situation that would determine what is better.

@Mojo I know what you mean, however I just all around feel naked without my ranged attack... they should make a Shuriken (that stacks to 99) with Crit damage + on it... I'd abuse the living crap out of those @,@

Quote:

Originally Posted by Orenwald

huzzah, I feel less bad now. I haven't even bothered to get that Tathlum because it doesn't have EVA+8 nor can I throw it @.@

Well, you could throw it, you'd just likely slap yourself afterwards. I did that with the smart grenade. Not my best move for sure. :(

I just realized that I forgot to account for alpha (as I often do, for some reason) when calculating WSC. Also forgot that Red Curry gives +1 AGI. This changes pre ring WD to 133 with Stormsoul adding either 3 or 4 (2.26% & 3.01% marginal gains, respectively.) The pre ring AGI values that will yield +4 to WD are too sporadic to list with a simple pattern. Either way, I guess that means Blade: Hi will likely always favor Epona's, although in some cases, not by much.

Oh hey, somehow I glanced over this thread and didn't notice it.
Critical hit based on TP WS's (like Hi and Jin) always do much better damage when you actually get the critical hits. So it's best to gear for that, then depending on the WS and the way it works, stack ACC/STR/ATT/WS mods, whichever ends up being best.

With RR and GH and cruor buffs inside abyssea, you can be sure your crit rate from dex is capped and that +50% crit rate from atmas is going to pretty much guarantee you get those crit hits. So stuff like Loki's over AF3 body is obviously going to be better. Outside abyssea I would suggest trying to break 130 dex and using as much +crit rate as you can get. At 90 I parsed for awhile on aura statues (lolullipopfarming), and a bit in einherjhar, and a bit more at mammool ja sp on mammools. My WS average was 300-400 higher with my outside abyssea WS set on, compared to my inside abyssea set.
you can view them here:
Inside: http://www.ffxiah.com/item-sets/197129
Hat is 4str ws acc15, and 4agl ws damage +2%, my fSTR probably isnt capped and definately wont be with the 99 kannagi, but my +crit damage is capped, and I keep yonin up full time so the acc isnt really terrible.
Outside: http://www.ffxiah.com/item-sets/197128
You could probably argue against the cape and hat, but I'm sticking to my story that +crit rate is best. Which is why I also include so much dex in this build. I have 133 total on my mithra with this.

The only thing I want and do not have is a 4 agl earring. I think that would probably do better then the 10 att one, but it seems useless to buy one. Every update they've added new higher stat earrings, so it would probably be a waste to buy one now. Unlike the rings, the HQ is the good one, at least with the rings its just a synergy synth to get the next tier up, and they dont HQ. So that seems safe IMO.

Kannagi SET MUST HAVE:

Accuracy +
Critical Hit Rate +
Critical Hit Damage +
Attack +
AGI+
DEX+
STR+

MAIN STATUS that BLADE: HI uses are: AGI / Critical Hit Rate / Accuracy

Howerver as we all KNOW:

DEX = Critical Hit Rate / Accuracy / Critical Hit DMG
STR = Attack and WS DMG
AGI = Evasion + / Critical Hit DMG / Range Attack / Range Accuracy / Parrying / Guard / Shield and some part on HASTE

AGI+40~52 = HASTE+1%

but HASTE+1% is not Equivalent to AGI+40~52

So my KANNAGI settup got a BUNCH of HASTE / DUAL WIELD / AGI / STR / DEX / ACC / Critical hit DMG / Critical hit Rate (MEIRTED 5/5)

I use :

Main: Kannagi
Sub: Kamone / Enchu +2 (OA 2-4 times) / Sekka +2 (AGI+9 EVA+20)
Ammo: Qirmiz Tathlum
Range: (sometimes) Ungur Boomerang
HEAD: Iga Zukin +2
BODY: Ninja's Chainmail
HANDS: Ocelot's Gloves
LEGS: Iga Hakama +2
FEET: Iga Kyahaan +2
NECK: Iga Erimaki
BELT: Twilight Belt
BACK: Atheling Mantle
EAR 1: Brutal Earring
EAR 2: Suppanomimi
Ring 1: Rajas Ring
Ring 2: Ulthahm Ring

and for Weapon Skill time :

Main: Kannagi
Sub: Kamone / Enchu +2 (OA 2-4 times) / Sekka +2 (AGI+9 EVA+20)
Ammo: Qirmiz Tathlum
Range: (sometimes) Ungur Boomerang
HEAD: Bersail Cap
BODY: Loki's Kaftan
HANDS: Ocelot Gloves
LEGS: Oily Trousers
FEET: Iga Kyahaan +2
NECK: Iga Erimaki OR Soil Gorget
BELT: Soil Belt
BACK: Atheling Mantle
EAR 1: Brutal Earring
EAR 2: Suppanomimi
Ring 1: Solemn Ring
Ring 2: Breeze Ring

OR

Main: Kannagi
Sub: Kamone / Enchu +2 (OA 2-4 times) / Sekka +2 (AGI+9 EVA+20)
Ammo: Qirmiz Tathlum
Range: (sometimes) Ungur Boomerang
HEAD: Bersil Cap
BODY: Loki's Kaftan
HANDS: Koga Tekko or Ocelot Gloves
LEGS: Iga Hakama +2
FEET: Iga Kyahaan +2
NECK: Iga Erimaki
BELT: Twilight Belt
BACK: Atheling Mantle
EAR 1: Brutal Earring
EAR 2: Suppanomimi
Ring 1: Rajas Ring
Ring 2: Ulthahm Ring

There is so much wrong in that post that I don't even know where to start. BRB, need to go /headdesk for a while to try and smash the stupidity out of my brain.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kuroganashi

Kannagi SET

You seem to not understand how .. any, of the primary stats work.

DEX influences Critical Hit rate up to dDex = 50. That is to say, Player DEX - mob AGI = 50 is the highest DEX will affect crit rate. DEX does not affect Critical Hit Damage. At all.

STR does not affect WS Damage. STR affects fSTR, which is a function of player STR vs monster VIT. Increasing fSTR increases Weapon Damage Rating until fSTR is capped. Know what else affects Weapon Damage Rating during Weaponskills? WSC. That is, WS mods. AGI as a 60% mod is more than twice as potent as fSTR even when fSTR is uncapped during WS.

AGI DOES NOT AFFECT HASTE. That needs super bold emphasis. Does not happen. Ever. They are not related. At all. AGI does not affect Critical Hit Damage either. AGI is your WSC mod. That is it.

There is absolutely no reason ever to Weaponskill in Haste gear or Dual Wield gear. Ever.