Could you consider buffing astral flow before you go gimping it?

With the new job abilities coming they claim embrava and perfect defense have to be gimped, this is incredibly unfair on smn and sch.

First off our 2hrs are getting gimped to make up for OTHER JOBS getting their new abilities. It's not cause PD and embrava compliment smn and sch's new abilities in any way. Smn gets a new ability that takes a lot of mp to be useful. Astral flow takes all your mp. They do not go well together, yet our 2hr has to be gimped to make up for others getting stronger.

Second, astral flow is useless outside PD, and even PD is only situationally useful. Let's look at what we have outside PD. 0 perp, pointless, we already have 0perp from gear. special BP's, on single targets, useless. Our merit pacts are cheaper and stronger only time they are helpful is for crowds and even then it's weak. Odin... Supposed to be some kind of super avatar, only purpose to kill things, deals about 5 dmg to most NM's and can only kill 2 maybe 3 mobs if you're lucky. Would maybe be decent.. If it didn't take all your mp and the rest of your 2hr leaving you completely defenceless.

So before you go gimping Alexander maybe you could consider giving us something to look forward to from our already weak ability?

Some suggestions:

Quadriple the dmg dealt by the astral flow BP's but make them subject to the AoE dmg reduction. So we'd do about 8k~ to a single target but less to multiple mobs.

Make Odin have a minimum damage to do to NM's (maybe 5k?) it's sad for this super avatar to only do 2dmg to jaggedy eard jack. And on normal mobs give him a unresistable sleep effect that is 100% accurate when the death effect misses so at least when death misses we'll have time to elemental siphon or something to get some way to defend ourselves before we get swamped by the left over mobs.

Instead of making it 0perp for astral flow make it invert the perp cost so you recover mp instead e.g 13 perp will become 13 refresh.

Possibly increase the avatars stats, haste, attack and acc boost?

Cause as it stand gimping PD is basically making Astral flow go from useful 10% of the time to never, it needs an adjustment so it does something. Cause if PD ceases to be useful then astral flow will never get used over the new ability even if astral flow can be used alongside it.

PD and Embrava are getting gimped because they can eventually be merited down to 30 min recast.

This would mean constant Neo Nyzul without having to reset Embrava.

3 PDs on Arch Dynamis Lord per dyna run per SMN without needing to reset it.

Constant Legion Spam without needing to reset either.

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Originally Posted by Babekeke

PD and Embrava are getting gimped because they can eventually be merited down to 30 min recast.

This would mean constant Neo Nyzul without having to reset Embrava.

3 PDs on Arch Dynamis Lord per dyna run per SMN without needing to reset it.

Constant Legion Spam without needing to reset either.

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And???

Summon a job that has been ignored and talked down to for end game content is finally getting a place in the game other then the "well no one else is looking and this summoner is begging".

With samurai's being able to do almost 5 weaponskills back to back skillchaining like no ones business and don't count out the FC parties you always see shouts for and with FC the war isn't even using their 2hr yet they pick on summoner as overpowered?

I don't care if we can do it once every 30mins cause its our bonus for putting points into merits and one of the only useful buffs we can give since SE still hasn't talked about how they are upgrading our current ones. Give earthern Ward a stoneskinga of 500-600 damage negation; TITAN IS THE @#$%'N AVATAR OF EARTH HE CAN DO THAT. We're commanding the very beings of magic itself we should have power behind us.

SE raise the perp cost on out avatars hell even double them just power us up so people can stop screaming "get off the mob, your only feeding it TP" and "Sorry we don't need a summoner, we want a real mage/DD"

I will say as a follow up, sorry for being so bitter in my comments. SE has pushed us summoners too much lately with the removal of our new summon and to nerf us on the update that was suppose to be ours is beyond too much.

To my understanding, Astral Flow is getting a buff, perhaps they'll make Astral Flow pacts better (ex. Perfect Defense and Zantetsuken). It's just the effect of Perfect Defense that will be nerfed, which given they're making Astral Flow a 30~60 minute recast is understandable.

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Originally Posted by Secondplanet

with the removal of our new summon

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Cait Sith is still coming. In all fairness to SE, this game is now 10 years old and they have to work around the limitations they put on 10 years ago to add new content. That's why the new 2hrs are getting delayed, and more than likely why Cait Sith/Atomos are getting delayed. I'd much rather see them focus on removing the old limitations before adding new avatars, which in all honesty is not gonna make Summoner that much more useful. At least with them increasing the cap on JA recasts they can think about splitting up Blood Pacts and doing something about that godawful delay.

My point is astral flow could be on a 30 second recast and still no one will ever use it if they gimp the only thing people use it for.
Once PD is gimped astral flow will have nothing worthwhile on it: under impressive AoE's, an Odin who seems to have hit his head on the summoning circle on his way out and 0 perp which we already have by 99. I'm not saying Alex shouldn't be gimped cause Yes he will be overpowered on a 30min recast, but we should have something worth using astral flow for before that happens.

Poor summoners... hope things start looking better in the future.

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Originally Posted by Cabalabob

My point is astral flow could be on a 30 second recast and still no one will ever use it if they gimp the only thing people use it for.
Once PD is gimped astral flow will have nothing worthwhile on it: under impressive AoE's, an Odin who seems to have hit his head on the summoning circle on his way out and 0 perp which we already have by 99. I'm not saying Alex shouldn't be gimped cause Yes he will be overpowered on a 30min recast, but we should have something worth using astral flow for before that happens.

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They're only nerfing PD, they're buffing Astral Flow in general;

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Originally Posted by Okipuit

As a general direction we will be raising all of the abilities so that they become useful. However, we believe that we will have no choice but add the lowering of effects of Perfect Defense and Embrava to our scope of adjustments.

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Also, there is no news as to how they will nerf PD. It's more than likely a potency nerf, but everyone panicked over the Ukko's/Smite nerfs and they didn't turn out to be that severe. Until the adjustments go live on the test server, no one can really say "Oh Perfect Defense is gonna be useless" or anything to that extent. We simply don't know yet.

Where did they say they would change the Smn and Sch 2h's?

If they are nerfing Perfect Defense, they need to change the name to what, Mediocre Defense now?

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Originally Posted by Teraniku

If they are nerfing Perfect Defense, they need to change the name to what, Mediocre Defense now?

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Lol. Or Not So Perfect Defense.

I think there's some mistranslation with the word 'perfect' anyway. Perfect Dodge doesn't dodge arrows, bullets, bolts or throwing weapons....

Well they could add Regen effect to PD and regain effect and stack with embrava, so if you have SMN and SCH, nothing really get nerfed in combination LOL. The retarded point of views of the developers when it comes to SMN still has not changed much. What is more atrocious is, instead of revising other 2 hours to be on par with Embrava and Perfect Defense, they go the other way around and ruin the good "2 hours" ability.

If perfect defence still offers something like -50% damage taken (that can break the regular -50% cap for players and go to perhaps 85% total) and add a strong phalanx effect that stacks with rdm phalanx, as well as very strong resistance against status effects, I could still see it being useful.

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Originally Posted by Babekeke

I think there's some mistranslation with the word 'perfect' anyway. Perfect Dodge doesn't dodge arrows, bullets, bolts or throwing weapons....

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They keep using that word... I do not think it means what they think it means.


Honestly, I can see why SE might think that Perfect Defense could use a little nerfing. It is easily one of the most potent of all 2 Hour abilities, dwarfing pretty much anything except Embrava. But here's the thing most non-Summoners forget about it: We pay through the nose in MP to use that ability.

To get the most out of Perfect Defense - to actually make it that bastion of awesomeness that people know and love (and, yes, abuse) - we have to put all of our MP into it. No other ability or spell in the game has that kind of price tag on it. Not even Embrava does. Perfect Defense is a lot less perfect when you only have half your MP left. And as for all of the old Rage Astral Flow commands we used to be able to use to finish the fight? Let's face it, they stopped scaling up in damage a long time ago. They're not worth using anymore.

Yes, we have ways to get MP back quickly - Siphon, Convert, Sublimation - but using those abilities right off the bat can leave us hurting for MP later on in the fight.

So, SE, if you want to talk change, then so do I. You want Perfect Defense to be less awesome? Fine, fine. In return, I want it to cost less MP. Less awesome = less MP. Only fair right? Scholar gets to use a flat percentage for its coolest toys. I can see that being a fairly easy route to go down for setting us up to have an expensive ability that doesn't flat out cripple us for the rest of the fight.

Expand this to our other Astral Flow commands (maybe at a lesser percentage?) and suddenly we have synergy with that shiny, new, unnamed (I think) spam-your-BP-Commands ability that will probably/maybe/eventually be added in.

Agreed, if it's not as potent, it's not worth 1050+MP.

As for struggling for MP later in the fight though. When you use PD you're expecting the fight to be over in 90 secs. That's 2 BP rage and 2 BP ward at most, so you don't need much MP back at all. Sublimation and ES tends to be plenty.

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Originally Posted by Mirage

If perfect defence still offers something like -50% damage taken (that can break the regular -50% cap for players and go to perhaps 85% total) and add a strong phalanx effect that stacks with rdm phalanx, as well as very strong resistance against status effects, I could still see it being useful.

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You'd think they'd take a look at the content they've designed which requires us to use PD so frequently and maybe shape future content with our abilities in mind instead of releasing an awesome new BP or spell and then nerfing it months later under the guise of "balance". I've been playing since NA release and still can't fathom their eagerness to paint themselves into a corner and then nerfing their way out. It almost seems like they draw ideas from a hat to add to the game and just patch away the shenanigans months later without any explanation. When they were considering PD and Embrava did they also plan to make literally every NM spam AoE death moves in each new piece of content making the two spells almost required for success? This nerf seems much more like an "Oh shit, we've been designing garbage for years!" move than one made in the interest of balance. When you make every event revolve around fanny tonics and 90 second strategies it's no wonder the players have been using the two spells so much.

In b4 new content features the same mob behavior and TP moves designed to flatten anything within 5 city blocks after our capability to resist damage is diminished. Artificial difficulty for President of Space, '12. I'm just being bitter at the moment, had a crappy morning in Walk of Echoes. It's almost like digging through mountains of poo for diamonds and there are no gloves left. :(

I'm certain that when they announced that they would be nerfing PD and embrava that they did say that they will be adjusting the content so that they are not required to complete it. I think the whole idea is that PD or Embrava will end up being 1 of the possible ways of beating content, not the only way.

They say a lot of things, Batman.

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Originally Posted by Caketime

They say a lot of things, Batman.

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They can hardly leave content in a state where it's completely impossible to deteat though, can they. They did with AV and PW, but that was 2 mobs, not all end-game content. It would be the nail in the coffin for many players.

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Originally Posted by Babekeke

They can hardly leave content in a state where it's completely impossible to deteat though, can they. They did with AV and PW, but that was 2 mobs, not all end-game content. It would be the nail in the coffin for many players.

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This is the same development team that leaves things broken for a year or more before they even acknowledge that a problem exists.

Seriously, piss of SE. You're more than halving the effect of the only useful 2 hour SMN's get. Love the bullshit about capping at 600, when there's no way to get even CLOSE to 600 at the moment. The highest possible SMN skill is 535, which mean PD will now last for only 41 seconds. Thanks for dicking us over square!

If you wanted to make it so SMN skill matter, you should keep the 90 second cap for those of us with max SMN skill, rather than dicking us over, even with a SMN skill we can't achieve.

Chocobo Blinkers, Scholar and SMN nerfs. Can't wait to see tomorrows reveal on the "Screw you players" week.


If you want to tie in the effect of PD to SMN skill fine, but as it is now you're screwing over SMN's with max skill, and when you introduce more +SMN skill gear, you're forcing us to track down every piece in order to get to that mythical 600 number. No other job in this game has an attack or ability (let alone a 2 hour) that requires you to have the absolute max skill level. Melee jobs don't have to max out a certain weapon skill, they get better bonuses from things like +STR and such. WHM gets further healing bonuses from MND and + Cure Potency items, not just healing skill. Same with BLM, who gets many bonus to their magic damage from things besides just maxing out Elemental skill levels.

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Originally Posted by DrForester

Love the bullshit about capping at 600, when there's no way to get even CLOSE to 600 at the moment. The highest possible SMN skill is 535, which mean PD will now last for only 41 seconds.

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Shouldn't 535 Summoning Magic give us 56 (rounded down) seconds? The equation should read something like:
Base_Time + (Summoning_Magic / 20) = Duration
30 + (535 / 20) = 30 + 26.75 = 56.75

Even 500 skill will give us 55 seconds. Since the potency of the effect isn't being messed with, this isn't as bad a nerf as I feared. Scholar got hit far worse than we did. Still, the loss of (at least) 34 seconds is going to hurt.

I also fully agree that 600 is a stupid number to expect us to reach.

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Originally Posted by Babekeke

As for struggling for MP later in the fight though. When you use PD you're expecting the fight to be over in 90 secs. That's 2 BP rage and 2 BP ward at most, so you don't need much MP back at all. Sublimation and ES tends to be plenty.

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Fair enough. This is certainly true in most situations. I know that little Taru in the final limit break quest sure dies quickly...

Still, I can think of at least two WotG missions - the fights against the Spite Wardens - where my team ran with Perfect Defense at the start so that we could zerg down the most troublesome enemies first. I felt pretty badly tapped for mp as those fights dragged on. I ended up having to give up Rage BPs in favor of helping the White Mage with party support.

Same sort of deal with the older Astral Flow Rage commands. They pretty much have to be fight enders, since it kills our MP to use them. Not having to blast all our MP to use the commands would give us some added flexibility in regards to timing that would be kind of nifty to have. It would also provide synergy with the new ability they want to give us.

I know many Summoners have wished for more AoE Rage commands. Moving the MP cost of our Astral Flow commands to a percentage could possibly help fill that need.

Highest attainable Summoning Skill is 542.

Base Skill: 417 (433 with merits)
Kirin's Pole: 12 max
Vox Grip: 3
Caller's Horn +2: 9
Caller's Pendant: 9
Summoning Earring: 3
Aptus Earring: 2 max
Anhur Robe: 12
Summoner's Bracer's +2: 15
Evoker's Ring: 10
Fervor Ring: 4
Astute Cape: 5
Cimmerian Sash: 5
Ngen Seraweels: 10
Rubeus Boots: 10

It's currently possible with these changes to hit 57 seconds for PD, not to mention upgraded Marduk will more than likely push this further (Lv.99 Tiara will almost definitely be the highest skill+ head). I'm just glad they didn't nerf the potency, that and they made Summoning skill above 500 useful. That said, they do need to adjust ADL so since this change will make it so you can kill it if you choose the wrong clone.

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Originally Posted by DrForester

Chocobo Blinkers, Scholar and SMN nerfs. Can't wait to see tomorrows reveal on the "Screw you players" week.

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You ain't seen nothin yet. Be prepared for more shitstorms of adjustment coming. Screwing players week after week is the new mantra. They need to move people to FF14 when it launch next year. You might as well stop buying any SE products from now on and focusing on other better Japanese companies like Atlus and Aksys. Say your goodbyes, cut your losses and pretty much leave while you are still ahead.

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Originally Posted by Luvbunny

You ain't seen nothin yet. Be prepared for more shitstorms of adjustment coming. Screwing players week after week is the new mantra. They need to move people to FF14 when it launch next year. You might as well stop buying any SE products from now on and focusing on other better Japanese companies like Atlus and Aksys. Say your goodbyes, cut your losses and pretty much leave while you are still ahead.

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All i can say is march next year monster hunter 3 ultimate. Capcom knows how to make a good online game, SE should take notes. Its free to play, only common crap items can be traded and are the base to make almost anything, gear looks awesome and unique not just recoloured, monsters are more about skill then gear and the list goes on.

SE stop living in the past of elitest style game play and get with the times of everyone should be allowed access to good gear without selling out.

Well next year also see the release of Nino Kuni: Wrath of the White Witch :) And also FF13-3, plus FF14. I have a feeling you can pretty much skip the release of SoA for at least a good 6-12 months until they release a greatest hits expansion and maybe a good decent contents to enjoy. You know the history, nothing to do on first release, minimal contents and barely anything for us to plow through other than leveling the new 2 jobs which are a rehash of previous jobs combined.

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Originally Posted by Luvbunny

leveling the new 2 jobs which are a rehash of previous jobs combined.

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And that will last just a weekend at most.

I am sure they have at least one events that is completely based of RNG with huge points needed to redeem one item, and NMs that still one shot you right and left within 30 seconds and immediately launched a barrage of 2 hours TP moves upon popped. What do you expect lol, after abyssea, nothing new is remotely even fun, addictive and a good repeatable grind for all, except neo dynamis. But everything else in the game is enclosed within invisible wall, aka. you can do it once a day or every 3 days, your tag replenish 20 hours, you need 18 people or 36 people, etc... Voidwatch is as close as fun repeatable grind if it's not for 8-12 people at the bare minimum requirement.

Neo Dynamis is fun? Repeatable, grindy, but fun? I'm probably doing something wrong but I'm only finding it boring. Of course, there's money to be made but that's hardly entertaining. I've been having more fun trolling people in Valk by repeatedly tracking the wildcard TE NM and sniping it. I'm a jerk sometimes.

LMAO, the amount of fun when it comes to grinding in this game is pretty relatives to everyone :) For some grinding in Abyssea is fun, others prefer dynamis, or salvage, or limbus, einherjar, neo nyzul. Everything is grinding in this game, even crafting is a form of grinding. Dynamis can be relaxing grind because it is very simple and boring, with a limited time which is good for casual players. If you are doing all the daily events, you end up with TONS of things to do, dynamis, moblin maze, meeble burrow, assault,salvage, those are the daily ones. Add the 3 days one with Einherjar and Limbus. And we are talking quite a full schedule of a good 4 hours at least every day. That is not even including crafting, voidwatch, xp, skill ups, farming for seals (kindred, beast men, etc), farming for geode, working on your magian trials, farming for your abysea gears. Not including the all you can eat buffet of Walk of Echoes and Campaign. The occasional bcnm battles for those elusive spells.