Puppetmaster Suggestions regarding Animators and Ammo

Hello!

This thread is intended as a suggestion to the Development Team.

I originally conceived the ideas in response to the thread "Puppetmasters! Lend me your LIKES!!!" but feel as if these ideas would now detract from the discussion on hand in that thread.

The aim of this thread to address several of the ongoing problems felt by Puppetmasters.

1. Animators are required to perform the job's basic duties.
2. Animators do not provide significant stats.
3. Animators as a Ranged Weapon restrict the use Ammo items for stat boosts for both Master and Automaton.
4. Animators display flavor text which do not appear to have any bearing on the performance of the Automaton.
5. Higher level Animators have particularly high time costs with obtaining them for extremely little reward.

Animators are required to perform the job's basic duties
There are currently 4 pet jobs in the game. 3 of those jobs can command the pet with varying degrees of control through job abilities.

Dragoon controls the Wyvern through Auto-Attack, Support Job Selection, Magic and Weapon Skill Use, and much later on, Pet Commands.

Beastmaster controls the pets through vocal commands (Fight, Stay, Heel, etc).

Summoner controls the Avatars and Spirits through communication via use of Magic Points.

Puppetmaster is the only one of the 4 pet jobs required to equip an item to send commands to its pet. From a Lore perspective, this makes sense. Aspiring Puppetmasters must retrieve a prototype, possibly assembly line model Automaton from the clutches of the Lamia. Aphmau's Automatons could act independently and via vocal commands, but those were shown to have unique enhancements. Using an Animator for our own Automatons would be necessary to provide it with combat data to allow it to perform duties outside of emotes.

From a Gameplay perspective though, it is a limitation. Animators are required to perform our job's most basic function - Mastering a Puppet. Through the game's coding, Ammo can only be equipped if 1) No Ranged Weapon is present or 2) The Ammo matches the Ranged Weapon type. This completely restricts our ability to equip any Ammo that would benefit the Master or the Automaton while still being able to command the Automaton.

Yes, we could swap gear as necessary, but that would then limit the Master's damage potential via constant loss of TP. The Automaton could act independently without the animator, but would also lose significant battle performance through the loss of maneuver affected attachments.

So what are we to do? Continue with the status-quo? Or should we find new and creative ways of finding a solution to the problems outlined above? I'm feeling creative, so lets go with that.

Animators do not provide significant stats

There are currently a grand total of 4 Animators in the game.

• Animator - The basic model unlocked with the job
• Turbo Animator - The AF "Weapon"
• Animator +1 - Obtained through participation in Einherjar
• Deluxe Animator - Obtained through participation in Windurst Tier 3 Voidwatch

2 of those Animators provide negligible, visible stats to the Master via a hidden effect. One of them provides a negligible, visible health and magic boost to the Automaton, again as a hidden effect. The original animator provides no bonus.

This is unacceptable. Every other job has a plethora of options across the Weapon, Sub, Ranged, and Ammo slots to improve their performance.

Puppetmasters, as users of Hand-to-Hand weapons, currently have only the Weapon slot. The Sub Slot is unavailable through the use of H2H. The Ranged slot is forcibly taken up by the Animator. The Ammo slot is unusable outside of Automation Oil for Repair and Maintenance.

My first suggestion in this thread is: We need better Animators. This is simply a matter of balance. We need Animators with clear, displayed stats that will bring out the best in us as Masters and the best in our Automatons.

(Side note: I agreed with and liked the "Puppetmasters! Lend me your LIKES!!!" thread and post. I believe Trial of the Magian Animators would make decent additions. As I mentioned above, I believe posting my ideas in that thread would have detracted from both discussions.)

Mr. Matsui requested that we be as specific as possible when bringing forth suggestions. Here are a few Animators I thought of while preparing this thread. (Stats are made up without math, but show the direction the Automatons could take through the use of new Animators)

Craftable Animators*

• Harlequin's Animator
  • An Animator designed for use specifically with the Harlequin Automaton. Enhances its combat routines at the cost of its magic use
  • (Displayed Stats) Automaton: Melee Skill A-; Attack +10; Accuracy +10; STR +3; DEX+3; Haste +5%; Silence
• Joker's Animator
  • An improved version of the Harlequin's Animator. Enhances its combat routines at the cost of its magic use
  • (Displayed Stats) Automaton: Melee Skill A-; Attack +15; Accuracy +15; STR +5; DEX +5; Haste +6%; Silence
• Valoredge's Animator
  • An Animator designed for use specifically with the Valoredge Automaton. Improves its Offensive Combat at the cost of its Defensive Capabilities
  • (Displayed Stats) Automaton: Attack +15; Accuracy +15; STR +5; DEX +5, Haste +5%; Weapon Skill Damage +10% HP -100; PDT +10%; Fire Maneuver Burden Decreased; Earth Maneuver Burden Increased
• Shieldbearer's Animator
  • An Animator designed for use Specifically with the Valoredge Automaton. Improves its Defensive Capabilities at the cost of its Offense.
  • (Displayed Stats) Automaton: Attack +10; Accuracy +10; VIT +5; AGI +5; Strobe Recast -15; Shield Bash Recast -60; Earth Maneuver Burden Decreased; Fire Maneuver Burden Increased.

Content Reward Animators

• Doctor's Animator (Rare/EX)
  • An Animator that augments the Automaton's curative capabilities
  • (Displayed Stats) Master: Regen; Cure Effects Received +10%; Automaton: Regen; Cure Potency +10%; Cure Spellcasting Time -10%; Automaton Enhancing Magic Cost +10%; Augments Enhancing Magic to -Ra spells.
• Master's Animator (Rare/EX)
  • An Animator that augments the Automaton's offensive magic capabilities
  • (Displayed Stats) Master: Regen; Automaton: Enfeebling Magic Accuracy +10%; Magic Attack Bonus +10%; Resistance to all Enfeebling Effects

*I say craftable Animators because this is the second of my suggestions: Animators should be reasonable to obtain. All other jobs have the option to acquire equipment through crafting and/or the Auction House. New Animators should be no different. Allow us to obtain Animators through these means, as well as special, powerful, rare Animators as rewards from playing content.

As far as which craft(s) should get the benefit of crafting Animators? Goldsmithing is the obvious choice, as one of their Guild rewards is Clockmaking. Smithing and Alchemy could also be involved, as metals conduct electricity which in turn are signals to the Automaton.

Animators as a Ranged Weapon restrict the use of Ammo items for stat boosts for both Master and Automaton.

As I mentioned earlier, the use of Ammo is dependent on the presence of the proper Ranged Weapon or lack thereof. As Puppetmaster is required to use an Animator in the Ranged Weapon slot to command the Automaton, our Ammo slot is restricted to Automaton Oil. This section of the discussion is for the solution of our lack of Ammo options.

I'm going to assume for the sake of the discussion that eliminating the use of animators is impossible or unlikely from a programming perspective.

My third suggestion for the discussion: Give us Animator Plug-Ins for use in the Ammo slot (Plug-In being a tentative name).

I don't know about the rest of you, but when I first saw the graphic for the Animator, the first thing I thought of was "Holy crap! That's a Nintendo 64 Controller!" Maybe it's just the perspective of the graphic. Maybe I'm just nuts. But it got me thinking. The N64 controller had an expansion slot that could be used for different effects, like a memory card and the Rumble Pak. Animators could have that same expansion slot - and the "Paks" could be our Plug-Ins in the Ammo slot.

Plug-Ins can provide just about any effect we can think of - from augmenting installed attachments to something unique like providing the Automaton new abilities. With these being in the Ammo slot, Plug-Ins could be swapped just as easily as any other piece of gear. For balance, because we're transmitting more data to the Automaton, Burden could be increased depending on the element. (This ties in with my Animator suggestions above with increasing and decreasing elemental burdens).

Plug-Ins could be both craftable and rewarded from content. Goldsmithing or Alchemy would be the craft of choice.

Another reason I've come up with Plug-Ins for the Ammo Slot is simply because our Automatons can't fit any more attachments. They only have 12 slots and so many elemental sockets to plug into. We all have our favorite attachment setups. Plug-Ins will provide more utility to our Automatons that we can swap out-and-in without having to deactivate, re-equip, and reactivate mid-battle.

Again, here are some specific Plug-Ins I thought of while preparing this thread:

Existing Attachments
These Attachments send more data to the Automaton, therefore increase elemental burden

• Tension Plug-In
  • Increases Effect of Tension Spring and Tension Spring II
  • Automaton: Attack +5%; Tension Spring Equipped: Attack +7%; Increases Fire Elemental Burden
• Scope Plug-In
  • Increases Effect of Scope
  • Automaton: Ranged Accuracy: +7; Scope Equipped: Ranged Accuracy +10; Ranged Critical Hit Rate +5%; Increases Wind Elemental Burden
• Ice Data Plug-In
  • Automaton: Grants Automaton EnBlizzard effect; Volt Gun Equipped: EnBlizzard has a chance to inflict Paralysis; Increases Thunder Elemental Burden; Increases Ice Elemental Burden.

Master / Automaton Shared Plug-Ins
These Plug-Ins work as any other piece of equipment would in the slot, and therefore provide no additional burden to the Automaton.

• Metronome
  • Master: Haste +4%; Automaton: Haste +4%
• Metronome +1
  • Master: Haste +4%; Double Attack +2%; Automaton: Haste +4%; Double Attack +2%

Automaton Command Plug-Ins
These Plug-Ins provide the Automaton with new instructions not available through its AI or Attachments. These provide a high level of additional Burden.

• Sleep Data Plug-In
  • Automaton Consumes 1 Dark Maneuver to use Sleep on Targeted Foe; Increases Dark Maneuver Burden
• Laser Weaponskill Plug-In
  • Sharpshot Automaton consumes Thunder Maneuvers to use "Laser" on Targeted Foe; Automaton Overloads upon use. "Laser" takes priority over existing Weapon skills

The thing we need to be careful with when dreaming up Plug-Ins is that I found it really easy to dream up a lot of them. Too many options could mean clogged inventories.

Current Animators display flavor text which do not appear to have any bearing on the performance of the Automaton.

This is more of a question I have for the Development Team.

Do the 4 existing Animators have any function beyond 1) Controlling the Automaton and 2) Providing small, visible, hidden effects to either Master or Pet?.

If that is all they do or if the flavor text means nothing, then these 4 animators need to be brought up to spec as I have suggested here or retired to make way for the new ones.

Higher level Animators have particularly high time costs with obtaining them for extremely little reward.

Namely the Animator +1 and Deluxe Animator can be quite difficult to obtain depending on the player. While not much can be done in regards to these two, if any of my suggestion are to come to light then New Animators and Plug-Ins must be obtainable based on their stats, and not some seemingly arbitrary rule.

It is high time for Puppetmasters to be able to gear appropriately for the task at hand with all the same possibilities as every other job that exists and will exist in the future.

In Summary

1. Animators are required to perform the job's basic duties.
If this is unavoidable, give us better Animators

2. Animators do not provide significant stats.
Animators should have stats on par with other jobs' equipment in the same slot, benefitting either Master or Automaton

3. Animators as a Ranged Weapon restrict the use Ammo items for stat boosts for both Master and Automaton.
Allow us to use specialized Ammo with our required Animators to give us better command of our Automatons

4. Animators display flavor text which do not appear to have any bearing on the performance of the Automaton.
This mystery has had all of us scratching our heads since the introduction of the Turbo Animator. What's up with them?

5. Higher level Animators have particularly high time costs with obtaining them for extremely little reward.
Any new Animators introduced should be obtainable within reason of their performance, not some arbitrary rule

Thanks

Thank you all very much for your time in reading this post.
Thanks to the Development Team for considering anything I have written.

Animators should be key items.

Problem solved.

end of discussion.

Great post, and great ideas. Very well done!

And I loved the N64 reference, almost makes me want to plug in my old N64, play StarFox and do Barrel Rolls until Fox pukes.

I thought the OP has a good idea with making Animators...better in general. Wouldn't be opposed to any of that.

But i have speak @Bob now....i have to give up to you too. If animators were made KIs, a lot of problems would flat go away. That's an elegant solution there that never even occurred to me.

I think the ideas that get brought forwards are great ideas but I think people have to think of the reality of the situation.
Old game with hardly anyone working on it. Therefore, the good more complex ideas will get tossed aside because of time constraints, or if they do get implemented it will be so far down the road.

So, I believe as a community we have to start looking at the simplest solution that would take no time at all for them to implement. We may give up some things, but better to get something then nothing. So, in summary, don't give them an excuse to say no.

Of course, aside from the easy "make animators Key items" idea, there's also the very simple "allow us to equip non-weapon ammo pieces even with our animator equipped" by which I mean being able to equip something like Demonry Core without needing to remove our animator (ie: having both on at the same time), but leaving it so we can't equip items like... oh wait, pup can't even equip any thrown weapons that aren't all jobs, despite having throwing skill...

Additionally, the response that "allowing puppetmasters to equip regular stat ammo in addition to their animators would be unbalanced" is an absolute lie, so I would sincerely appreciate the devs not even considering that response again. It was insulting enough in the other Lend Me Your Likes thread.

In the end, the need for better Animators and customisation will benefit the job more than new attachments or frames and heads.

It seems odd that the most adaptable job (in case we just look at our automation) is limited by 1 slot.
No other job is forced to use a specific item that will block another slot.
That aside, the idea for Animators (crafted or rewarted) specific for the Automaton we want to use seems reasonable.

As a side dish, since we have 2 slots that we can't cusomize as we want, we should start thinking about the posibility of another unique "element". Maybe something similar to the grips for 2h-weapons.
I knew, this could be a disadvantage for MNK but the other possibility would be to create a series of items that will work with the Animator and could be switched in instead of Automaton Oil without loosing TP.
So "grip like" items would be more balanced. (Just to stress the term.)
And in term of implementing - SE allready introduced grips for weapons that formerly couldn't equip anything as subhand. (e.g. Great Swords)

In my opinion, the idea of a wider range of Animators (with automatonspecific boosts and penalties) combined with the option to equip another Item that will boost us Masters and or Automaton would be nice.

A thought I had recently was to push forward on the concepts the flavor text implies. IE: Each tier of animator (aside from the very first one) extends the duration of a maneuver effect by 20 seconds. Thus, Initial=60 seconds, AF=80 seconds, Ein=100 seconds, VW=120 seconds.

This provides an indirect boost to the master's damage by not needing to use maneuvers as frequently, as well as just easing up on the stress of the player having to keep hitting the same macros so often (similar to Composure helping ease the stress of spell rotations for Rdm). Overall it seems like a subtle, but sufficiently useful change that wouldn't introduce a huge amount of work like all the complex ideas mentioned above, and hopefully not upset the "it would be overpowered" dev segment.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Motenten

A thought I had recently was to push forward on the concepts the flavor text implies. IE: Each tier of animator (aside from the very first one) extends the duration of a maneuver effect by 20 seconds. Thus, Initial=60 seconds, AF=80 seconds, Ein=100 seconds, VW=120 seconds.

This provides an indirect boost to the master's damage by not needing to use maneuvers as frequently, as well as just easing up on the stress of the player having to keep hitting the same macros so often (similar to Composure helping ease the stress of spell rotations for Rdm). Overall it seems like a subtle, but sufficiently useful change that wouldn't introduce a huge amount of work like all the complex ideas mentioned above, and hopefully not upset the "it would be overpowered" dev segment.

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Liking that one! It's a simple change that gives animators purpose and reduces the massive JA delay PUPs need to swallow.

It would be nice to have the duration extended but please not through pointless activities like VW or Einherjar.
While Einherjar is an event where you can get what you want by simply attending, VW is a time sink that is a 100% luck based event so you can have it on your first attemp or never.

I would like to see the maneuverdurations extended and it's possible to integrate this idea into the idea of the OP.

I love this, especially the "plug-in" idea of the OP. A couple things:
1, Making an Animator a KI would be harder than it sounds. KI's are used by all jobs and I know of no case where a specific KI is used for a specific job. Titles, ticketts for gear storage, quests, etc do not count as theyre not used by one job only. This opens up a harder challenge in programming. Also, if multiple animators, which one takes priority? Since we dont fully know all the hidden effects, maybe one animator is better than another for specific situations.
2, Klimaform. It is the ODDEST af of any in the game. Just think about that and how SCH gets nothing better, though the spell is great, for the rest of the game. That is its af weapon. Im not disagreeing at all with you, but lets not forget that SE has done some wonky things to some of the jobs. This is just a "thing to make ya go Hmmmm."
Plug-ins. BRILLS! I love it!

Damn seems i was stealing motenten's idea, made a thread earlier about extending maneuver duration in either case great idea!~

I love the idea..

This would force people to work to obtain different animators and for the bonus's each provide would be acceptable.

Also, if they don't want to go through the work with multiple animators. Make the damn thing a KI and give us a PUP ammo slot.

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Currently I macro (Xbox player) Ctrl+1 to place my animator and oils on, Alt+1 to switch to ammo item.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Ihnako

It would be nice to have the duration extended but please not through pointless activities like VW or Einherjar.
While Einherjar is an event where you can get what you want by simply attending, VW is a time sink that is a 100% luck based event so you can have it on your first attemp or never.

I would like to see the maneuverdurations extended and it's possible to integrate this idea into the idea of the OP.

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I also agree that the duration extension is excellent as reflected in the tiered way based on the quality of the animator; I do not agree with the statement that the activities (Einherjar and VoidWatch) are pointless; I would suggest keeping the acquisition of the items the same, in an effort not to negate the work other Puppetmasters have undertaken in order to secure the items.

So instead of a "Slap in the face" maneuver and changing the way the animators are acquired, I would recommend adjusting the events somewhat to allow an easier way to acquire the items (easier, not necessarily...effortless or effort-free)... therefore you maintain some level of continuity without upsetting a player base that came before and undertook the events (in some instances multiple times---ie. Voidwatch) in order to finally get their hands on their elusive prize (deluxe animator).

Thx!

Just convert the animators to ammo slot, easiest and quickest solution I can think of.