Throwing weapon skill suggestions

So in the official thread to provide suggestions to the new producer of FFxi I saw a lot of suggestions to the tune of "Please add weapon skills to throwing weapons", so I thought maybe someone should start a thread and collect some ideas about what should be added.

My suggestion:

Identity Disc- Effect, derezzes the target...
Yeah, just kidding :cool:

For reals though:

Blunt Throw- Deals thunder elemental damage and causes stun. Potency of stun varies by TP.

Antipode Throw- Deals elemental damage based upon day and inflicts DoT enfeeblement based upon element. Potency of enfeeblement varies by TP.

Blood Throw (name pending)- Deals physical damage and inflicts Bleeding effect (severe DoT that stacks with any other DoT effect). Chance of Bleeding varies by TP.

For the people that keep suggesting Blue Mage gets one, here is the Blue Mage exclusive one:

Unattainable Throw: Does infinite damage, Area of Effect, refills HP, MP, and TP to full.
Skill required: 151

First, when we think about Throwing, jobs like Blue Mage will need to get native throwing skill in the first place, even if it needs to sub another job for native weapon skills.

Second, we'd think about how throwing weapon skills function. Ideally, throwing weapon skills are split by expendable and returning weapons. At best this means you have different weapon skills for both. At worst, expendable ammo throwing weapons don't get weapon skills due to the difficulty, and Ninjas either have to be content with Sange, or get more similar abilities like it.

Expendable weapons just get such gigantically absurd damage ratings, and you can swap them without losing any TP. From 5 damage Pebbles to 88 damage Koga Shuriken to the 250 damage sky powders, you get a incredibly large range, mostly thanks to Rare tagged ammo that was never designed for weapon skills.

Expendable weapons could get weapon skills where you throw several at once - which would combat the Rare tagged ammo problem, or could be balanced around the high damage.

Returning weapons generally have lower damage ratings, ranging from the very low 1 damage that bane weapons do, to the more reasonable 35 damage that an Aliyat Chakram does, or the 43 damage a Raider's Boomerang does. Obviously, I expect to see slightly higher damage ratings for when better classes of the Boomerang subtype come about, but basically damage caps out around 50 for non-Relic type weapons.

Returning weapons do about a third to about half of what expendable weapons do, so their damage would have to be adjusted similarly. Additionally, you'd expect the weapon skills to be functionally different. I think that weapon skills for returning weapons are more important as well; if the choice had to be between one or the other for some reason, I'd easily take returning weapons over expendable ammo types.

Third, we'd have to think of who gets throwing weapon skills.

Ranger would obviously get in the action, despite it not being mentioned very much. Ninja has A- throwing, the highest of the bunch, and gets access to expendable weapons nobody else does, so they'd probably get in.

Dancer is also one of the four jobs that are on Chakram like Ninja, but also gets the War Hoop, their artifact weapon, so they'd probably get in too. Blue Mage only gets access to swords and clubs, so assuming they'd finally get throwing skill natively, they'd be likely to be a job that can use throwing weapon skills, especially since they're on Chakram like Ninja and Dancer. Thief, which is on Boomerangs with Ranger, and Chakrams like Ninja, Dancer, and Blue Mage, is also a likely candidate for weapon skills.

The rest of the jobs are considerably less likely to get in with native throwing weapon skills, especially if there ends up being no weapon skills for expendable ammo. However, some are more likely then others, and I'd think we'd see two or three of these jobs getting in, particularly Warrior.

Warrior is the most likely outside the group of RNG/NIN/THF/DNC/BLU to get throwing skills just because they have access to so many weapon skills, but also because they're on select Boomerangs, and have Dart and Bomb access too. Corsair, which is specially ranged based like Ranger, and even has a pretty high throwing skill, might get considered, especially since they get so many Darts, however this may be iffy. Red Mages are on Darts and have a tiny bit of skill (the dismal F skill, below that of even Bards or White Mages), so they'd be in a even less likely position to get them, while still having a very small chance for expendables.

Black Mage and Scholar both have D rank skill in throwing, which is about what Warrior gets, but both are very backline magic casters that don't traditionally get weapon skill access on any weapon they're given, even on Staffs. Still, they get access to actual throwing weapons - Pebbles, Tathlums, and Astragolos, unlike a job like Samurai, so there is very slightly more hope for them to have native skill then Samurai. Scholar would be slightly less likely then Black Mage since they carry more book-type ammo in their throwing slot (although books as a throwing weapon isn't unheard of in FFXI!). Bards have slightly lower skill and the same weapon access, but are unlikely since they're constantly carrying instruments.

Monks also have lower skills and the same access, but are more likely then Bards, and probably way more likely then Black Mages and Scholar since it is a combat class, and Monks tend to be fairly good with all their blunt weapons, but like them, have pretty bad odds of actually getting a weapon skill (probably second or third place after Warrior though, depending on the other Blunt heavy job). White Mage has poor skill, like Monk, and the same access, but also like Monk, White Mage traditionally has very limited weapon selection that they get roughly every weapon skill the weapon has that isn't tied to a weapon or Nyzul Isle.

Samurai are unlikely to be considered despite their high skill for native skill, because they're just not on anything unless Throwing Coins are ever implemented into the game. Puppet Master is even less likely, since they didn't even get any hints at weapons, and they're constantly holding their Animators. Other jobs without skill probably won't be considered, despite Dark Knight having Dart and Bomb access, or Summoner having Astragolos and Pebbles.

The hierarchy for current likelihood to get put on throwing weapon skills is probably roughly something like this: RNG >> NIN > DNC > THF > BLU >>>> WAR >> MNK=WHM > COR >> RDM >> BLM/SCH > BRD >> SAM > PUP > DRK >> SMN > BST > DRG >> PLD

Forth, you'd finally have weapon skills. Going along with the previous suggestion of splitting throwing into expendable and non-expendable, you'd have two groups of weapon skills. I'll leave names out and just describe functions, but this is obviously not a complete list by any means, just an example of how the two weapon categories could be different.

Returning (Ranged Slot)

• Delivers a twofold attack. Damage varies with TP.
• Damage varies with TP.
• Stuns target. Chance of stunning varies with TP.
• Deals wind elemental damage. Damage varies with TP.
• Deals lightning elemental damage. Damage varies with TP.
• Delivers a fivefold attack. Accuracy varies with TP.
• Delivers an area attack. Radius and accuracy varies with TP.

Expendable (Ammo Slot)
Multihit skills discharge multiple ammunition.

• Deals critical damage. Chance of critical hit varies with TP.
• Deals double damage and blinds target. Duration of blind varies with TP.
  (2 shots)
• Poisons target. Effect varies with TP.
• Delivers a fivefold attack. Chance of critical varies with TP.
  (5 shots)
• Eightfold attack that rasps target. Chance of critical varies with TP.
  (8 shots)
• Deals fire elemental damage. Damage varies with TP.
• Delivers a sixfold attack that silences target. Duration of silence varies with accuracy.
  (6 shots)

Well wrote, Econ. You should post that over in the other thread as well.

I think this is a terrible idea.

*cough* puppetmaster animator uses that slot *cough* no room for a throwing weapon anyway

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Originally Posted by Trisscar

You should post that over in the other thread as well.

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If it is the Producer suggestions thread, feel free to copy it over, on my first list I already posted the meat of what I wanted for throwing weapon skills:

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Originally Posted by Economizer

• Give Blue Mage Throwing Skill
• Throwing Weapon Skill
  Preferably two different sets of weapon skills, one for returning weapons, and one for expendable ones, this way you can balance the base damage that expendable weapons do, or even only have throwing weapon skills available if the user has a returning weapon.

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The rest written here is just reasoning, who should get what (which was spoiler'd because it is a bit of a novel) and some weapon skill stuff.

Repetition is good for getting some points across, but I feel that it would be better served with other people posting their take on this then posting a longer explanation myself currently.

I've been pouring over the Producer suggestion thread every so often, so if you post your reasonable take on this there I'll probably add my like. If you meant a different thread somewhere feel free to copy over what you like about it too, but if it is in a different forum somewhere please tell me if there is a discussion about it, I enjoy reading theory about how the game works or should work even if I don't always understand it perfectly or if I don't actually get to have meaningful input on the outcome.

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Originally Posted by Lisotte

*cough* puppetmaster animator uses that slot *cough* no room for a throwing weapon anyway

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Plus Puppetmaster doesn't get any access to Throwing weapons either outside of all jobs stuff, and Puppetmaster throwing skill only seems to exist to annoy Blue Mages. Simply put, it makes no sense.

But think about how throwing could be good for a Puppetmaster... there could be an automation that does throwing weapon skills someday. Alternatively, the Puppetmaster's throwing skill could be a hidden factor on something it does, like increasing the number of commands a Puppetmaster can send out, lowering overload chance, or even increasing the effect of healing items on the pet. I think throwing weapon skills for a puppet would be more impressive though.

Of course, some things will always be more important for some jobs then others.

Good post Econ.

I've always been a proponent of Throwing weapon skills and abilities. However I've been less vocal as of late due to cult-ninjas that are so adamant against it because they don't feel it would be an improvement to a ninjas arsenal. I'd still like to see them implemented. I'll have to dig around the ninja forum to find some of my post regarding it.


With the adjustments to ranged attack delay and the further adjustments listed on the road map, perhaps throwing WS and abilities will be added to our arsenal.

wasnt throwing ws impossible because of the very structure of the game?

i'd love to hear an answer from dev just to clarify that.

I thought it was mentioned that there was no way to link a weapon skill to consumable ammo that didn't have a ranged weapon counter part. But with the new expansion they are finding ways around other things that were once dubbed impossible. #wishfulthinking

let me skill up throwing with pebbles k

I always wanted to see Boomerangs with the WS ability to pull a target to you. So the WS would do low damage but bring whatever you are fighting to your feet.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Economizer

Plus Puppetmaster doesn't get any access to Throwing weapons either outside of all jobs stuff, and Puppetmaster throwing skill only seems to exist to annoy Blue Mages. Simply put, it makes no sense.

But think about how throwing could be good for a Puppetmaster... there could be an automation that does throwing weapon skills someday. Alternatively, the Puppetmaster's throwing skill could be a hidden factor on something it does, like increasing the number of commands a Puppetmaster can send out, lowering overload chance, or even increasing the effect of healing items on the pet. I think throwing weapon skills for a puppet would be more impressive though.

Of course, some things will always be more important for some jobs then others.

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I swear to god, if throwing skill secretly already influences anything with the pet already, I'm going to start a riot, pitchforks and torches and all. Especially because pup has no way to reliably skill their throwing skill, and access to no +throwing skill gear that isn't all jobs. I say this because it sounds exactly like something SE would do.

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Originally Posted by Theytak

I swear to god, if throwing skill secretly already influences anything with the pet already, I'm going to start a riot, pitchforks and torches and all. Especially because pup has no way to reliably skill their throwing skill, and access to no +throwing skill gear that isn't all jobs. I say this because it sounds exactly like something SE would do.

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For PUP to skill up throwing, they need /ra ammo that works with animators or an alternate way to use maneuvers without being forced to equip an animator in ranged slot.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Kristal

or an alternate way to use maneuvers without being forced to equip an animator in ranged slot.

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Slight derail, but PUP should either have an alternative equip that is identical in function (such as changing the Deluxe Animator's slot), or be able to equip Animators in their sub slot when using H2H weapons. Introducing this around the time H2H gets handwraps or something like weapon grips (that would mostly be for Monk) for the sub slot would give creative options. Puppetmasters everywhere would get new options, whether it is pulling with one of the Lamia/Mamool/Troll-bane weapons, or being able to use cameras better, or actually being able to use the ammo options more readily, or being given Battery/Fan/Pump powered Puppet moves, and more.

Hello,

Thanks everyone for your suggestions, but currently the development team doesn't have any plans to add throwing weapon skills. However, we have forwarded your suggestions here, as well as the Matsui thread, for future consideration!

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Originally Posted by Okipuit

Hello,

Thanks everyone for your suggestions, but currently the development team doesn't have any plans to add throwing weapon skills. However, we have forwarded your suggestions here, as well as the Matsui thread, for future consideration!

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Please ask them kindly to consider changing those plans! :)

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Okipuit

Hello,

Thanks everyone for your suggestions, but currently the development team doesn't have any plans to add throwing weapon skills. However, we have forwarded your suggestions here, as well as the Matsui thread, for future consideration!

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Kindly tell them thank you for not wasting their time looking into it.

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Originally Posted by BorkBorkBork

Kindly tell them thank you for not wasting their time looking into it.

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this



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Originally Posted by Vivivivi

Please ask them kindly to consider changing those plans! :)

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^ ^^^
^ ^^^
^ ^^^

....and no part of research and development is waisting time in my opinion. I find it laughable that one would suggest time is being waisted and then expect the programmers/devs to hear their plea.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Okipuit

Hello,

Thanks everyone for your suggestions, but currently the development team doesn't have any plans to add throwing weapon skills. However, we have forwarded your suggestions here, as well as the Matsui thread, for future consideration!

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Once I'm done compiling the different posts/ideas (not all are mine) I'll make a reply to the Matsui thread. It's a shame people can't idle their tongues and instead insist on mucking up threads, else Matsui could have caught up by now. There were some really good ideas (forum wide, not just throwing/ninja specific) and the same clowns clutter them up until they get locked, or buried.
....looks like you win again interweb....:rolleyes: