Guttler improvements

Hi Everyone,

The guttler is pretty nice, but it still doesn't do enough damage to compete with the other empyreans and relics.

Here is my suggestion. Add the occ does 2.5/3X damage to the pet as well when the owner is main handing a guttler.

Good / bad idea? What's your feedback?

um Guttler trumps the hell out of Farsha and honestly it's a really strong axe at the 95 stage.

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Originally Posted by SNK

um Guttler trumps the hell out of Farsha and honestly it's a really strong axe at the 95 stage.

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I agree.

Though I'd be lying if i said I didn't think the idea of Claustrum, Gugnir, and Guttler giving Pets ODD/OTD :Q

Malthar, please clarify why you think Guttler falls short. Please show damage comparisons or at least show the weapons you are comparing.

Guttler is a really good weapon. Farsha is a piece of joke because cloudsplitter is a joke, but Guttler is a really good weapon.

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Originally Posted by Karbuncle

I agree.

Though I'd be lying if i said I didn't think the idea of Claustrum, Gugnir, and Guttler giving Pets ODD/OTD :Q

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They really should add the relic's ODD/ODT to the pets. Dev Team, I hope you're reading this!

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Originally Posted by Xilk

Malthar, please clarify why you think Guttler falls short. Please show damage comparisons or at least show the weapons you are comparing.

Guttler is a really good weapon. Farsha is a piece of joke because cloudsplitter is a joke, but Guttler is a really good weapon.

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This.

Guttler may be a let down compared to Relic weapons that actually let someone play differently, such as the options open to Ranger or Dark Knight, but I don't see those as the norm.

Guttler is on the same level as the many other excellent Relic weapons with mediocre weapon-skills or bonuses attached to them, which is most of them.

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Originally Posted by SpankWustler

This.

Guttler may is a let down compared to Relic weapons that actually let someone play differently, such as the options open to Ranger or Dark Knight, but I don't see those as the norm.

Guttler is on the same level as the many other excellent Relic weapons with mediocre weapon-skills or bonuses attached to them, which is most of them.

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Relic WS's (and any ws you have from equipping a weapon, cough*cloudsplitter*cough) shouldn't suck though. The ability to use the WS, the aftermath of the WS, and if anyone ever finishes one, the afterglow are 1/2 of the effects the weapon has.

And I do believe we were told guttler would be given something that at all related to Beastmaster, such as dispensing a unique jug pet. Then again, SE can always simply change their mind without telling us again.

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Originally Posted by Louispv

Relic WS's (and any ws you have from equipping a weapon, cough*cloudsplitter*cough) shouldn't suck though.

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Yes, yesss, yessssssss, and yessssssssssssss to this comment. If you have to work your ass off for a WS it should be good, even more so if it is from a Relic,Empyrean, or Mythic weapon for the sake of them being Relic, Empyrean, or Mythic. :D

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Originally Posted by Louispv

And I do believe we were told guttler would be given something that at all related to Beastmaster, such as dispensing a unique jug pet. Then again, SE can always simply change their mind without telling us again.

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This would be very interesting. Can you link the thread where SE stated this?

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Love,
Karbuncle.

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On a serious note. Would be nice if some of the more lol Empyrean WS would be boosted.

It would be awesome if all of the Relic and Empyrean and Mythic weapons were evened out and placed on the level of the most useful and fun among them. That would be so awesome.

The Development Bros haven't changed Cloudsplitter or Gungnir in the years they've had to do so, though, so I think it's best to just account for some stuff being a let down when comparing the actual performance of super-special weapons.

In that kind of comparison, Guttler is well in the middle of the pack by virtue of the stuff on it making a moderate amount of sense. Compared to a perfect ideal, a lot of the super-special weapons come up short by some degree.

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Originally Posted by SpankWustler

It would be awesome if all of the Relic and Empyrean and Mythic weapons were evened out and placed on the level of the most useful and fun among them. That would be so awesome.

The Development Bros haven't changed Cloudsplitter or Gungnir in the years they've had to do so, though, so I think it's best to just account for some stuff being a let down when comparing the actual performance of super-special weapons.

In that kind of comparison, Guttler is well in the middle of the pack by virtue of the stuff on it making a moderate amount of sense. Compared to a perfect ideal, a lot of the super-special weapons come up short by some degree.

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But in the case of Cloudsplitter, the devs did in fact respond to the plea siting that the ws was perfectly powerful. They didn't mention the part where the ws was tested under nearly perfect conditions, all the right buffs, the 3 strongest atmas for cloudsplitter, etc, etc. They did the testing on their end and decided it was powerful enough, then we did the testing on our end to figure out that the deck was stacked against us from the beginning. We cannot win these battles, just as we won't win the battle over our new bs, never to be used 2hr. Balance.

Screw Guttler and Farsha anyway, they're both just timesink traps. Grab ye -pdt axes and smash face, save the Relics for a job that needs one to compete. All we need is a Lagomorph or Mollusc and we're good to go.

Dev's did NOT say that guttler would get a unique pet. A player made the suggestions and a response came from the community team that it was a cool idea.

Good idea and acceptance are two different things. Remember when Camate said we would get th gear for taking th from Yuley and Falcorr?

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Originally Posted by Caketime

Screw Guttler and Farsha anyway, they're both just timesink traps. Grab ye -pdt axes and smash face, save the Relics for a job that needs one to compete. All we need is a Lagomorph or Mollusc and we're good to go.

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I can't totally agree on this. If you really want to make the most of your bst, Guttler should certainly be on your list of things to do. The damage increase is pretty substantial. You'll certainly notice yourself using snarl alot more frequently. Farsha on the other hand... I mean yeah, a 99 farsha is actually a pretty solid axe for what it is, just not enough to make the time and effort worth it.

I still have a Stage 2 Axe laying around in my Mog House somewhere. I wouldn't mind getting it fully upgraded simply due to the fact T. Whiteshells are so cheap now. (5k per on Shiva right now) But I thoroughly enjoy my x2 Pet: PDT axes though!

I know giving up 11% might not be a whole lot but still, every little bit helps especially when solo dynamis farming and I have 4-5 mobs wailing on my pet. Now if SE were to add a buff to the Guttler that enhanced our pet's defensive capabilities that are superior to the Pet: PDT on the Lv. 99 Astolfo, then I would totally go finish that Guttler. But as it stands now, I'm not 100% sure I'd be willing to give up one of my Astolfos just yet.

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Originally Posted by Calamity

I can't totally agree on this. If you really want to make the most of your bst, Guttler should certainly be on your list of things to do. The damage increase is pretty substantial. You'll certainly notice yourself using snarl alot more frequently. Farsha on the other hand... I mean yeah, a 99 farsha is actually a pretty solid axe for what it is, just not enough to make the time and effort worth it.

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Acquiring a Guttler won't make groups suddenly want me, so I have to disagree with you. I don't care about parses, or how I'm performing in an alliance (lol) alongside other players because my BST never gets invites for that stuff. For me personally, I would rather power up my pets instead of spending my time on a weapon that will only help me farm a bit faster.

The biggest strike against Guttler isn't even anything bad about Guttle itself, but something really good about a totally unrelated weapon.

Between Axe being a one-handed weapon and Ruinator being 100% STR, a fire-based "Burning Herpes" Astolfo is going to be close to Guttler in the situations most people would be on Beastmaster.

Guttler will win every time, but that victory comes after literally collecting the fantasy equivalent of Satan's spinal fluid. I can understand how that wouldn't feel worthwhile to some or most people.

If any other one-handed merit weapon-skill were also STR, that corresponding relic weapon would be in the same situation. This doesn't mean Guttler is bad, it does what it says on the tin and whacks the funky junk off anything that anybody hacks at.

That's more than Gungnir or Gambanteinn or many other weapons do. Farsha...uh...does what it says on the tin in a very literal sense. I just wish it worked on something harder than clouds...

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Originally Posted by Xilk

Dev's did NOT say that guttler would get a unique pet. A player made the suggestions and a response came from the community team that it was a cool idea.

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I think the idea came about based on the Campaign NPC "Lhu Mhakaracca" <sp?> in Windurst Waters [S] who is able to summon 2 Roc pets.

She's still my favorite all-time Campaign NPC. I love how her Guttler talks shit during campaign battles and she tries to get it to shut up when you speak to her in Windurst, like she's trying to keep the fact her Axe talks on the downlow or some shit.

I wish my guttler would talk to me...
And being able to summon two pets with the 99 guttler would be incredible!
Better yet, have the 99 guttler give the ability to skillchain with the pet.
These are all good ideas, SE. Please give some consideration.

Not so sure if Skillchaining with our pets would be better then having 2 pets at once. Yes Skillchaining with our pets would be a great addition but not in replacement to possibly calling up 2 pets. Skillchaining with our pets shouldn't require Guttler or any of these hard to obtain weapons it should just be part of Beastmaster. :)

Guttler should share the Aftermath with the pet.
And a crazy thought:

Enchantment: Calls Kyo or Pya
<1/1 0:30/[20:00:00, 0:30]>

I'm not sure if the game details Guttler's relationship with Lhu Mhakaracca enough, though.
I'd say it would make sense that her rocs survive to present day Vana'Diel, somewhere out there, and that Guttler being wielded out on the field once more would attract them (For a brief powerful attack or buff, at least).

Bump;

why did this thread die? SE may we have a response to these great ideas, please?

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Originally Posted by Malthar

Bump;

why did this thread die? SE may we have a response to these great ideas, please?

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yes please

Should add that Onslaught is actually a fairly strong ws now at 119. Pretty close to 1/5 ruinator think it's about high time we fix relic aftermath durations. Empyrean are litterally 50% longer and mythic is 2-3 times as long. A big thing that would help bring guttler (and some others) back is actually being able to really utilitze it's relic ws. Which would involve overalling durations and fixing the crappy ws/aftermaths

Edit: Also math aftermaths apply to pets!!! And have ya know actual pet stats on a bst only axe <.<

And now the new delve axe completely destroys guttler for bst lol. Same ilvl for calling pets, 11 more base dmg though 8 more delay, same skill and such but in lieu of the hidden stuff you get actual pet stats and decent ones at that.

I found that 164 DMG Emxgha.

Still keeping Guttler, however. I just love to Onslaught things, among its other nice traits.

Having afterglow'ed Guttler, I would also like to see longer relic aftermath and make it apply to PETS!