Cure V, Raise II Where?

Any plans to add this to RDM spell lists now that the level cap has been increased?
Also, first XD

Damn, first post on RDM forums and already starting with demands :D

Anyway, I second the Cure V question, but I dunno if we need Raise II that much (though it would always help with timers I guess).

Cure 5 would be nice.

Honestly Cure 5 and 6 would make RDM overpowered and overshadow WHM. I don't think it will happen.

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Originally Posted by Draylo

Honestly Cure 5 and 6 would make RDM overpowered and overshadow WHM. I don't think it will happen.

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WHMs have enough tricks up their sleeves that even if RDMs and SCHs had Cure V, WHM would still be the top-tier healer in the game.

That said, I would prefer to have Paralyze II land on anything that mattered before Cure V.

I personally don't see a point to cure V, rdm is a decent healer without it, and I don't see why we should become pseudo-whms fulltime again, Giving us access to another raise however would be nice.

But I have to agree, I would like to see our Enfeebles be able to actually be usable more often, as well as our Melee potential, were already decent at most roles but some lack luster or are worthless on things that matter.

I would like to see Cure V added to Red Mage's spell list as well. With the level cap increase and with players now able to achieve 3,000+ HP inside of Abyssea, curing for only ~450 HP seems to fall a bit short sometimes (especially when being a solo healer).

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I personally don't see a point to cure V, rdm is a decent healer without it

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But it's not. It's not even close to acceptable. It's often not even worth the effort to cure, if all you can cure is 450~ at a time, every 3-5 seconds. Rdm is passable in situations where very little damage is taken, but realistically how often is that?

Rdm needs Cure 5 minimum. I don't know how it will change things outside Abyssea, but in all honestly speaking, who knows what would be added outside..I'm just going to assume inside is the end for now.

And it needs it. Badly. In fact, as a Whm as well, sometimes I wish I had a Cure 7.

In cases where rdm is curing there normally backing up a whm or low-maning an NM that doesn't deal the excess of damage that a whm would be required for. With a decent mnd + Potency build you should be able to get a decent amount of HP cured from IV, at least 600, but that still isnt nothing to what cure V can do, I will say that.

I don't really think RDM needs Raise II, but considering that Cure IV becomes subable at 96/48, it'd be nice if our highest cure wasn't available via subjob. Nevermind the fact that WHM has Cure VI, a ton of potency gear, and Refresh/Convert if they want it. RDM is a long way from being equal to it, let alone better.

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Originally Posted by Trangnai

I personally don't see a point to cure V, rdm is a decent healer without it, and I don't see why we should become pseudo-whms fulltime again

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<true strike>. although it would be quite useful for converting...

Cure V is a nice 'oh shi...' button in the situations where a healer is needed and it would be nice if I could bring RDM instead of WHM for enfeebling.

Instead of Cure V, I'd prefer a long lasting "buff" we can put on players that would recover a percentage of damage taken based on your Enhancing Magic skill in a short period of time. Ideally, it alongside Cure IV should match a Cure V in potency in the same span of time. Enmity could still be a concern in longer fights, but that in part emphasizes the utility of -enmity gear or inviting a THF for their JAs.

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Originally Posted by Showmo

I would like to see Cure V added to Red Mage's spell list as well. With the level cap increase and with players now able to achieve 3,000+ HP inside of Abyssea, curing for only ~450 HP seems to fall a bit short sometimes (especially when being a solo healer).

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Or just up the soft and hard caps for cures. this would help solve a lot of healing issues

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Originally Posted by Septimus

WHMs have enough tricks up their sleeves that even if RDMs and SCHs had Cure V, WHM would still be the top-tier healer in the game.

That said, I would prefer to have Paralyze II land on anything that mattered before Cure V.

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In abyssea it wouldn't be a big deal, but outside both RDM and SCH are capable of outlasting a WHM as is. It might cause a return to the TAU days where people wanted a RDM healer because of their longevity. Those refresh atmas are bigger equalizers than most realize.

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Originally Posted by Lovehatehero

Or just up the soft and hard caps for cures. this would help solve a lot of healing issues

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This would be an excellent idea as well. If healing magic skill also played a bigger role in the amount you cured for, it would also resolve the issue with jobs without native healing magic skill subbing mage jobs and still curing for pretty much the same amount as a Red Mage (or other mage jobs with native healing magic skill).

Instead of a Cure V, RDMs could do to have a 'Curasa' spell: something on a moderate cooldown, 10-20 seconds or so, and heals proportionately to the percentage of HP lost on the target. RDM healing is passable at the moment, our only big weakness I could see needing filled is the need for an emergency 'big heal' button. Curaga healing can stay WHM's niche.

I for one would like to see some multiple status enfeebles. Kind of like in FFVIII. Would save time casting 1 spell over multiple spells. Where redmage really shines is enfeebles. Or adding enfeeble effects to en-spells would be cool along with other benefits. Just seems there is something more that could come......and if its gonna be there why not emphasize on the enfeebles. Or have the duration increased in proportion to its en-spell.

Raise II would be nice at times considering the use of RDM. Cure V like people have said is a must especially in abyssea with the amount of HP you have to cure. 5-6 cure IV and you have to start thinking about your MP and how long you can sustain a MNK tank that is taking a lot of damage. I loved the Refresh2 that made me happy also.
I would like to see the RDM become something more then just a backup whm though even outside abyssea yes they have cure but they have a decent sword skill and the sword enchancing spells should be given a chance too..

I think we need to look at the bigger picture here. Starting at level 21, WHM approximately receives a new cure spell every 20 levels:

Cure III - level 21
Cure IV - level 41
Cure V - level 61
Cure VI - level 80

I take the jump of only 19 levels from V to VI as a hint that the devs intend to give WHM Cure VII at level 99. At that point, it should not represent a balance issue at all to give RDM (and SCH) Cure V.

The game has progressed to the point where WHM is the ONLY legitimate healing support job for a large majority of (admittedly largely Abyssea) fights - this is a huge balance error. Even with CureV RDM will not overtake WHM - it will simply be usable. WHM is currently the game's most overpowered job.

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Originally Posted by RaenRyong

The game has progressed to the point where WHM is the ONLY legitimate healing support job for a large majority of (admittedly largely Abyssea) fights - this is a huge balance error. Even with CureV RDM will not overtake WHM - it will simply be usable. WHM is currently the game's most overpowered job.

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Blu is passable too :(

Outside of abyssea I can live with only cure IV... but inside abyssea with the insane HP, and insane amount of damage taken, Cure IV is embarrisingly outdated to have as a top heal for rdm/sch. Spamming Cure IV in some situations isn't enough, but the biggest problem with Cure IV is the amount of threat it draws. In a lot of situations, you just can't get away with a rdm spamming heals due to this.

Cure V would most certainly be useful, Raise II would be nice but less necessary than Cure V

I personally think RDM Healing is okay the way it is now. RDM has always been a support job, and a little help goes a long way, whether it be also nuking in a party full of BLMs while throwing out refreshes, or taking healing duties over for a WHM resting for MP. Primarily though, I love Enfeebling and Enhancing.

SE needs to think on this one carefully, though- I'd hate to become a Pseudo-WHM like the Treasures of Aht Urhgan era transformed the job to be, and WHM would again be overshadowed like Draylo said. The only reason RDM was the perfect healer before Abyssea is because Cure 4 can proportionately heal enough HP, where Cure 5 or 6 seems more like a wasted effort, especially on the MP pool. I like the Curasa suggestion personally, as it adds a new trick for RDM that differentiates it from WHM. Plus, you certainly get more buffs and debuffs on the side to make enemies go down easier.

Personally I think red mage could benefit from abilities akin to the Afflatus JAs. Perhaps a JA that will modify your next cure potency dependent upon the amount of damage of your last casted nuke. I realize this is situational, but it could still have its uses to balance the playing field with RDM and WHM.

Another thought I have had in the past was a JT that compares to "Double Attack", but with magic instead. "Double Cast" maybe? Perhaps either (1) Occasionally doubling the potency of a spell, or, (2) The same spell is occasionally cast again immediately after the first cast, with a reduced MP cost if any cost at all.

Outside of Abyssea, where Tanks don't have HP in the 4k range, Cure IV is okay. Inside of Abyssea, I might as well just come BLM to everything instead of RDM unless I'm soloing an NM (and an NM NIN/DNC can't take care of faster than RDM could, at that). Perhaps make a relatively easy-to-get Staff with:

Cure Potency +10%
Visitant Status: "Cure V"
85 RDM SCH

Or something like that. Though I'd rather have the spell natively.

I think we will be getting Cure V prior to capping at lvl 99. We got cure IV at lvl 48. At lvl 99 thats over 50 levels ago without another cure spell. They will give us Cure V. As for another raise, honestly I feel no need for it but I do think we need a more diverse enfeeble spell list, more potent mix, or create another tier with more merits.

Cure V would be nice, however honestly I would rather see RDM get Reraise than Raise II

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Originally Posted by Felren

Outside of abyssea I can live with only cure IV... but inside abyssea with the insane HP, and insane amount of damage taken, Cure IV is embarrisingly outdated to have as a top heal for rdm/sch. Spamming Cure IV in some situations isn't enough, but the biggest problem with Cure IV is the amount of threat it draws. In a lot of situations, you just can't get away with a rdm spamming heals due to this.

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I agree with this so much.

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Originally Posted by wildsprite

however honestly I would rather see RDM get Reraise than Raise II

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Saving gil is more important than raising people faster?

I hate being so vehement about this, but If RDM gets Cure 5, I'm dropping RDM because we all know what it'll turn into outside Abyssea, when it does get the spell, and how it'll impact WHM. Why go F@#%ing backwards? Honestly, if we do get something that's already in the game, make it Regen III.

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Originally Posted by Quetzacoatl

I hate being so vehement about this, but If RDM gets Cure 5, I'm dropping RDM because we all know what it'll turn into outside Abyssea, when it does get the spell, and how it'll impact WHM. Why go F@#%ing backwards? Honestly, if we do get something that's already in the game, make it Regen III.

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Because rdm has nothing other than cure5 to offer?

WHM will still remain top curing job if RDM gets Cure5. It just won't be the ONLY viable curing job.
Yeah I know BLU etc..

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Originally Posted by RaenRyong

WHM will still remain top curing job if RDM gets Cure5. It just won't be the ONLY viable curing job.
Yeah I know BLU etc..

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The problem is that class longevity is moot in abyssea due to refresh atmas. Outside abyssea RDM and SCH can outlast WHM. If RDM and SCH get cure V, which is more than enough as is outside abyssea, there's the risk of them becoming the preffered healers and WHM getting kicked to the curb despite their bigger healing potential on paper. It happened during TAU, which is why some people are weary of that.

It happened in taou because whm has almost no refresh at all. Now they can get 6/tic refresh, and vert. Remember when /sch came out? Whm was suddenly desired, if only a little, when just the day before it was considered a useless job. It went from having almost no way to recover mp other than resting, to being able to sustain itself. Whm will be fine.

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Originally Posted by rog

Because rdm has nothing other than cure5 to offer?

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Because we're talking balance. Not everything is happening in Abyssea. It's just Abyssea is hot stuff at this time of the game, and If you really want better curing power for your RDM, start a Surya's Staff+2 and at least grab Serpentes Hands and Feet, and a Fylgja Torque. That'll put you at 29% Curing Potency. If you multiply, for example, 410 by .29, you get 118.9. Add 410, you'll be hitting 528 Cure IV's (decimals are rounded down iirc). In Abyssea, Atma of the Rescuer adds another 10% (39% total). Instant 569 Cure IV. IMO, that's a fair amount for RDM to throw out without overclassing WHM. I would also suggest a Roundel Earring, but I would wait until Campaign Ops are readjusted so that more drop and the huge price for them deflates.

What's funny about this is that I only have an Apollo's Staff for Curing on my RDM.

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Originally Posted by Duelle

The problem is that class longevity is moot in abyssea due to refresh atmas. Outside abyssea RDM and SCH can outlast WHM. If RDM and SCH get cure V, which is more than enough as is outside abyssea, there's the risk of them becoming the preffered healers and WHM getting kicked to the curb despite their bigger healing potential on paper. It happened during TAU, which is why some people are weary of that.

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Thank You.

"In response to Emitremmus' Comment"

I think you have a decent idea regarding the potential for a double potency affect. I would say if you were going to introduce this idea or the idea of a double cast for a reduced mp cost, you'd then want to implement them as a JA. But that's my personal opinion.

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Originally Posted by Quetzacoatl

Because we're talking balance. Not everything is happening in Abyssea. It's just Abyssea is hot stuff at this time of the game, and If you really want better curing power for your RDM, start a Surya's Staff+2 and at least grab Serpentes Hands and Feet, and a Fylgja Torque. That'll put you at 29% Curing Potency. If you multiply, for example, 410 by .29, you get 118.9. Add 410, you'll be hitting 528 Cure IV's (decimals are rounded down iirc). In Abyssea, Atma of the Rescuer adds another 10% (39% total). Instant 569 Cure IV. IMO, that's a fair amount for RDM to throw out without overclassing WHM. I would also suggest a Roundel Earring, but I would wait until Campaign Ops are readjusted so that more drop and the huge price for them deflates.

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I have all of this and my curing power still leaves a lot to be desired.

WHM not only destroys RDM at single target cures, it destroys them at not generating enmity while doing so (having more utility on hate-reset NMs), anything that inflicts status ailments, AoE curing, etc. Abyssea or not, WHM is too strong (or the other healing jobs are too weak).