More macro books!

With the onset of two more jobs soon, i forsee one LARGE problem. Macro books.

As it stands we have 20 jobs, and 20 macro books. Adding two jobs will either force players to choose which jobs to even make macros for, so not only will merits and gear be restrictive, but players may have to attempt to cram jobs into sharing books. This could be a problem if you accidentally tab into the other job's macros causing a fatal mistake. I propose an extra 2-10 (ideally 5) more macro books for these other jobs. I dont know for sure if this can be implemented, but im sure some other players are thinking about this very problem. This is not asking for more macro tabs or extra lines, just simply more books to accomodate the new jobs.

20 is already not enough, certian jobs I have are on different books depending on the sub job. Conversly war, drk, mnk and pld are all on one.

All they need to add is 2.

I like having one macro book per job. I would like to see them add 2 more books, one for each of the new jobs.

Greetings,

Good observation regarding 20 jobs and 20 macro books but these matching numbers are actually by coincidence and we never intended to have one book per job.
We can understand that creating one book per job would make things easier to organize but we would need to continue adding them every time a new job is introduced. We feel that 200 macros are sufficient and for that reason we do not plan on adding more books at this time.

More jobs logically means more things needing macros.

However, there are several other factors than could potentially alleviate macro space when the new UI comes around. Most notably, if we could save entire gear sets to a single macro command, that would free up at least 80% of several players' macro palettes . . .

How many people play all 20 jobs and use every single macro slot? I mean really...

The only things that should be considered in respect to adding more books are: Does it take a bunch of time or money? It's not a question of game balance or anything like that.

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Originally Posted by Okipuit

Greetings,

Good observation regarding 20 jobs and 20 macro books but these matching numbers are actually by coincidence and we never intended to have one book per job.
We can understand that creating one book per job would make things easier to organize but we would need to continue adding them every time a new job is introduced. We feel that 200 macros are sufficient and for that reason we do not plan on adding more books at this time.

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Dev logic!

Going by what is in front of us. You felt that with 20 jobs 20 macro books was enough. Yet you go and add 2 more jobs and feel no more books are needed? Why did you not just make 18 macro books for 20 jobs then?

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Originally Posted by Sp1cyryan

Dev logic!

Going by what is in front of us. You felt that with 20 jobs 20 macro books was enough. Yet you go and add 2 more jobs and feel no more books are needed? Why did you not just make 18 macro books for 20 jobs then?

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Don't give them any stupid ideas.

with the books we have you have 20 books,200 sets,4000 macros,20000 lines

pluse when we get the third line we will have another 2000 macros, 10000 lines(thats the theory any ways)

I only use like 5 macro books. I'd rather have more lines per macro than more macro books in total, to be honest.

2000 12-line macros > 4000 6-line macros in my opinion.

Or just the ability to call gear-only macros within macros. But SE doesn't like this idea :(

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Originally Posted by Sp1cyryan

Dev logic!

Going by what is in front of us. You felt that with 20 jobs 20 macro books was enough. Yet you go and add 2 more jobs and feel no more books are needed? Why did you not just make 18 macro books for 20 jobs then?

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In another thread they said they couldn't add any more macro lines due to PS2 constraints. Whether or not that's true I cannot say, but if it is, it would explain this decision as well.

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Originally Posted by Arcon

In another thread they said they couldn't add any more macro lines due to PS2 constraints. Whether or not that's true I cannot say, but if it is, it would explain this decision as well.

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SE said something very vaguely along the lines of "We think macros are perfect the way they are... ". It was strangely out of context with what was being discussed and didn't sound very official. More like the rep just wanted people to stop talking about 3rd party tools.

Given the huge numbers of players who apparently use a well known alternative macro system this is all kind of moot, except for console players of course but then if you're a serious user of macros then you'd not be playing on a platform that had such a cripplingly limited capacity for most of the game's heyday.

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Originally Posted by Kraggy

Given the huge numbers of players who apparently use a well known alternative macro system this is all kind of moot, except for console players of course but then if you're a serious user of macros then you'd not be playing on a platform that had such a cripplingly limited capacity for most of the game's heyday.

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This sort of issue may be moot to you and the other players who use third party tools, but for PC players who do not use them and for the console players who cannot, any enhancements to macros will be a godsend. While I understand that this would have no benefit to you, it is rather selfish to deny it to others, particularly with SE finding any reason they possibly can to avoid working on things like this.

Didn't the devs say in one of the interviews at vanafest that "if we add mroe jobs we'd add more macro books?" i'm gonna go find the interview, unless anyone knows where it's from. Pretty sure it's from 2008 or 2010 vanafest Dev Panel.

It's already bad enough that you have to press up to 4 different macros to efficiently cast *ONE* spell because SE doesn't want to increase the amount of macro lines, but they won't even increase the number of macro books?

That's ridiculous. Why do they introduce so many pieces of gear that are only used in very specific situations (see elemental obis + twilight cape + basically anything that SCH wears) if they aren't going to allow us enough space to make macros to use them?

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Originally Posted by Kraggy

Given the huge numbers of players who apparently use a well known alternative macro system this is all kind of moot, except for console players of course but then if you're a serious user of macros then you'd not be playing on a platform that had such a cripplingly limited capacity for most of the game's heyday.

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Some of us are not willing to pay hundreds of dollars to perform a tad bit better on a video game. I would love to be able to swap on all my weaponskill gear without the stupid game messing it up and not locking on 1-2 pieces of gear often. Sometimes I feel like SE wants us to be gimp.

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Originally Posted by Kraggy

Given the huge numbers of players who apparently use a well known alternative macro system this is all kind of moot, except for console players of course but then if you're a serious user of macros then you'd not be playing on a platform that had such a cripplingly limited capacity for most of the game's heyday.

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Not implementing features in a game because unauthorized third party applications can do it is a pretty bad idea. It would be best if most desirable features were already in the game, so that it would give users fewer reasons to switch to third party programs.

Maybe if the unmodified client offered increased draw distance, 20 lines per macro, timers for status effects, timestamped chat logs and recast timers for spells and abilities, fewer people would bother with things like windower.

I mean I definitely don't use third party apps, but if I did, and if the game started offering these things right out of the box, I would probably stop using them.

Hopefully, all of these things will be added in the new UI they're planning.

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Originally Posted by Okipuit

Greetings,

Good observation regarding 20 jobs and 20 macro books but these matching numbers are actually by coincidence and we never intended to have one book per job.
We can understand that creating one book per job would make things easier to organize but we would need to continue adding them every time a new job is introduced. We feel that 200 macros are sufficient and for that reason we do not plan on adding more books at this time.

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Okipuit, I found an interview between 1UP.com and Tanaka from 2008 shortly after Wings of the Goddess was released.

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There are 20 macro books and 20 jobs. Are there any plans to add more jobs? IGN
Tanaka: They have some ideas for new jobs, but only time will tell If they get added. If they add new jobs they will simply add new macro books.

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You've got some 'splainin ta do.


Link included for great justice.

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Originally Posted by Okipuit

Greetings,

Good observation regarding 20 jobs and 20 macro books but these matching numbers are actually by coincidence and we never intended to have one book per job.
We can understand that creating one book per job would make things easier to organize but we would need to continue adding them every time a new job is introduced. We feel that 200 macros are sufficient and for that reason we do not plan on adding more books at this time.

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1 macro book per job is is good for personal balance. It helps players keep things organized. Being forced to have multiple jobs on a single macro book would be counter productive. All the ease/convenience/speed of using macros would be lost if we have to spend time sifting through macros that arnt even for that job.

So ill have to agree. Two new jobs = 2 new macro books.

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Originally Posted by Okipuit

Greetings,

Good observation regarding 20 jobs and 20 macro books but these matching numbers are actually by coincidence and we never intended to have one book per job.
We can understand that creating one book per job would make things easier to organize but we would need to continue adding them every time a new job is introduced. We feel that 200 macros are sufficient and for that reason we do not plan on adding more books at this time.

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I understand the amount of macro books seem sufficient, and I agree that it is, but I use all 20 books simply because of the convenience of labeling them. I think there is only one book in which I use every set within that book, and that's summoner.

With the new user interface, would it be possible to at least add labels to individual sets? I could imagine instead of selecting the book "THF" I could select the book "Light Armor" and make a subselection of "THF" to directly jump to that set within the book.

http://league-music.com/idea.png

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Originally Posted by Ophannus

Okipuit, I found an interview between 1UP.com and Tanaka from 2008 shortly after Wings of the Goddess was released.





You've got some 'splainin ta do.


Link included for great justice.

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I suspect the answer will be something like this:

Greetings,

Please understand that the original response from Takana was not intended as a guarantee that we will be adding this kind of macro expansion in the future. This was meant to only be an example of how the macro expansion system could be enhanced to a higher level. While this does not rule out any possibility of expanding the macro system like this in the future, it was never a promise that it would be implemented.

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Originally Posted by larrymc

I suspect the answer will be something like this:

Greetings,

Please understand that the original response from Takana was not intended as a guarantee that we will be adding this kind of macro expansion in the future. This was meant to only be an example of how the macro expansion system could be enhanced to a higher level. While this does not rule out any possibility of expanding the macro system like this in the future, it was never a promise that it would be implemented.

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Sounds like a used car salesman. "Oh, I didn't say it had a hemi. I said they were thinking about making a version of the Toyota tercel that comes with a hemi in it... they didn't though. Sorry, if that's the reason you bought it from me. *wink"

Actually it reminds me more along the lines of this:


1) Square Enix Development Team offers us new features and promises

http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_mxb2Hxzy6Y...F16_Hutz_1.png


2) Player base questions the dev team about the past promises....

3)Square Enix Development Team renegs and denies their previous statement.

http://cdn.chud.com/b/bf/bf844bcd_li...e-simpsons.png

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Originally Posted by larrymc

I suspect the answer will be something like this:

Greetings,

Please understand that the original response from Takana was not intended as a guarantee that we will be adding this kind of macro expansion in the future. This was meant to only be an example of how the macro expansion system could be enhanced to a higher level. While this does not rule out any possibility of expanding the macro system like this in the future, it was never a promise that it would be implemented.

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I see what you did there.

I love how these forums are holding SE accountable for what they say. If only they would actually act the part, too.

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Originally Posted by larrymc

I suspect the answer will be something like this:

Greetings,

Please understand that the original response from Takana was not intended as a guarantee that we will be adding this kind of macro expansion in the future. This was meant to only be an example of how the macro expansion system could be enhanced to a higher level. While this does not rule out any possibility of expanding the macro system like this in the future, it was never a promise that it would be implemented.

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lol, where have we heard that from before.

Seriously, dont get me started on SE's promises.

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Originally Posted by Okipuit

We feel that 200 macros are sufficient and for that reason we do not plan on adding more books at this time.

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Aside from the fact that (in part) it doesnt matter what you feel, it matters what your player base feels, How about this?

System currently has 20 books, with 10 pages in each book. So take one page off each book. Well find a way to survive with only 9 pages.
That gives you 20 extra pages. Make 2 more books with 9-10 pages each.
Now we have 22 book, and the total macro number stays the same. That gives players what they are asking for. And it fits completely in with you counter argument.

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Originally Posted by Godofgods

Aside from the fact that (in part) it doesnt matter what you feel, it matters what your player base feels, How about this?

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Most of the player base doesn't care. At best, they aren't actively opposed to it, but they aren't going to lose sleep about it either way.

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Originally Posted by Godofgods

System currently has 20 books, with 10 pages in each book. So take one page off each book. Well find a way to survive with only 9 pages.
That gives you 20 extra pages. Make 2 more books with 9-10 pages each.
Now we have 22 book, and the total macro number stays the same. That gives players what they are asking for. And it fits completely in with you counter argument.

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This suggestion on the other hand would upset some people. Anyone that uses all 10 pages on a macro gets screwed because other people need an even number of macro books solely for its own sake.

When it comes down to it, that's worse because you would be removing functionality to fix an issue that can legitimately be fixed by the handful of players that have this issue. The macro books are stored client side outside what you back up on the server. You can have as many as you want just by cut and pasting in sets of 20.

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Originally Posted by Godofgods

Aside from the fact that (in part) it doesnt matter what you feel, it matters what your player base feels, How about this?

System currently has 20 books, with 10 pages in each book. So take one page off each book. Well find a way to survive with only 9 pages.
That gives you 20 extra pages. Make 2 more books with 9-10 pages each.
Now we have 22 book, and the total macro number stays the same. That gives players what they are asking for. And it fits completely in with you counter argument.

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Except that would probably cause pages to move to the wrong job books... Book 1 page 10 would suddenly become Book 2 page 1, Book 2 page 10 becomes Book 3 page 2, etc... My PUP macros would end up on my WHM macro book...
Not to mention you lose 2 entire pages.

Just have PUP and MNK take 5 pages in 1 book, and WHM and SCH take 5 pages in another, and you got room for 2 more jobs.

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Originally Posted by Kristal

Except that would probably cause pages to move to the wrong job books... Book 1 page 10 would suddenly become Book 2 page 1, Book 2 page 10 becomes Book 3 page 2, etc... My PUP macros would end up on my WHM macro book...
Not to mention you lose 2 entire pages.

Just have PUP and MNK take 5 pages in 1 book, and WHM and SCH take 5 pages in another, and you got room for 2 more jobs.

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I never said it was a perfect solution. But seeing as the devs reason for not adding two new books was merly a 'we dont think its needed' ... i figured a logical argument was out of the question.