Heavy Metal Plates

Mostly starting this topic to see how many people think the current trial for 95 empyrean weapons is fine as is, and how many think it's a pile of crap.

I personally fall in the latter opinion. The trial would be fine if HMP's were a common drop off most of the VW system or even other systems, but as it stands, only the very bored and very rich even bother with this trial. As you can see in the census released in early July, very few of the empyrean weapons made are 95 or above.
http://www.playonline.com/ff11us/gui...nsus/11/4.html

SE either needs to seriously up the supply of HMPs, or lower the amount required from 1500 to something in the realm of sanity, say 300 or 150. Prices on Siren at the moment range from 110k to 130k per HMP, that's 165 to 195 million gil for a single trial that only gives you a few base damage and 2 STR/DEX/ect.

Anyway, I hate to add to the constant sea of complaints around here but it's just really frustrating to not be able to finish any trials past 90 for empyreans/WoE. Since WoE is dead content there's no supply of dice or residue besides from those who started to collect them and gave up and are now selling them.

i agree but i do think 400-500 would be more along the lines of a good number.

As one of those people that have actually done that trial, I'd be really p****d if they did lower the requirement, I have to admit that. Then again, SE has trolled people this way before (relic trials) and if they did decide to lower the number of plates there's nothing I can do about it.

Would be better if plates were easier to come by - higher drop rates, alternative sources.

More so than the huge number alone, I think the bigger issue is that VW is already starting to slow down. It's probably likely that HMP will soon go the way of alexandrite, especially when the new expansion hits.

I think the number required is alright, when you can get 6-11 HMP on something like a qilin run, but I agree the drop rate should be considered for adjustment. I have all priepts for VW, and did Qilin 18 times yesterday, and didn't get a single HMP. Each Qilin had capped lights, and I traded 3 rubi cells each time and even 3 cobalt on 4 of the runs. If you received 10-20 for doing that many pops each time, 1500 at least seems obtainable, especially considering you can buy them from bazaars.

I should note this was the worst drop rate i've experienced with HMP, I usually at the very least get a pouch of 3 from a x6 Qilin or Aello run.

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Originally Posted by Tamoa

As one of those people that have actually done that trial, I'd be really p****d if they did lower the requirement, I have to admit that. Then again, SE has trolled people this way before (relic trials) and if they did decide to lower the number of plates there's nothing I can do about it.

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Such is the life of an early adopter I'm afraid.

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Would be better if plates were easier to come by - higher drop rates, alternative sources.

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Agreed. Even if they don't lower the requirement, they could at least spread the love around a bit. Many VW mobs have rather pathetic loot tables as is. Simply adding the chance for plates would improve them considerably and may encourage people to do some fights they don't normally do. I can't see the downside in that.

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Originally Posted by Tamoa

As one of those people that have actually done that trial, I'd be really p****d if they did lower the requirement, I have to admit that. Then again, SE has trolled people this way before (relic trials) and if they did decide to lower the number of plates there's nothing I can do about it.

Would be better if plates were easier to come by - higher drop rates, alternative sources.

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I'm not sure why it matters either way how they go about it. If they lower the number needed you will be angry because it becomes easier. If they make them easier to get you should be just as angry because again, it becomes easier. The same thing with people and Mythics honestly, more Alex supply or less Alex needed there is little difference, if your going to be mad about 1 way you should be equally mad at the other I think.

In either case I don't care which way they go about it but something needs to be done thats for sure. For now 1500 plates at 100~120k each is more expensive than an entire relic weapon but instead you get a small boost in damage and the stat mod for your weapon which could never be worth it. Less money, less work, and you can obtain a Relic95 which is likely in the same ballpark damage wise if not higher.

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Originally Posted by Camiie

Such is the life of an early adopter I'm afraid.

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I finished 99 Ukon in March, that was what - around 6 months after the trial was implemented, so I'd hardly call myself an early adopter. Furthermore, it would have taken a lot longer if not for the fact I'm blessed with some amazing friends who gave me a total of 600ish plates that they'd gotten from fights.

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Originally Posted by Demon6324236

I'm not sure why it matters either way how they go about it. If they lower the number needed you will be angry because it becomes easier. If they make them easier to get you should be just as angry because again, it becomes easier.

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Wrong. If the amount is lowered, I'll get angry because it would mean I have wasted millions of gil, and my awesome friends might as well have thrown away all the plates they gave to me.

I would in fact welcome it if SE makes heavy metal plates (and riftdross/riftcinder) easier to get. I have friends that want to upgrade their weapon(s), and I'd love to see them do just that.

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Originally Posted by Tamoa

I finished 99 Ukon in March, that was what - around 6 months after the trial was implemented, so I'd hardly call myself an early adopter. Furthermore, it would have taken a lot longer if not for the fact I'm blessed with some amazing friends who gave me a total of 600ish plates that they'd gotten from fights.

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I wasn't trying to attack you. I was just saying that that's how things go in game and in life. What's hard to get or expensive today will invariably be easier to get and cheaper tomorrow. Don't go into something expecting anything else.

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Wrong. If the amount is lowered, I'll get angry because it would mean I have wasted millions of gil, and my awesome friends might as well have thrown away all the plates they gave to me.

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I don't see what's a waste about it. You have a 99 Ukon right now while the vast majority of us do not. You have friends who obviously place great value on your friendship. You should be happy.

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I would in fact welcome it if SE makes heavy metal plates (and riftdross/riftcinder) easier to get.

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Increasing the supply or lowering the number required ultimately lead you to the same place.

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I have friends that want to upgrade their weapon(s), and I'd love to see them do just that.

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I like the sentiment here. That's exactly how I feel. I want everyone to have nice things. If it makes my things less rare or special then so be it.

Hypothetically, what if the requirement for Heavy Metal Plates was gradually lowered, and refunds were granted to empyrean holders prior to the adjustments?

For example:

September 2012: Any player with a 95/99 empyrean weapon will receive a refund of 250 Heavy Metal Plates via NPC.
October 2012: The required amount of Heavy Metal Plates is lowered from 1500 to 1250.

December 2012: Any player with a 95/99 empyrean weapon will receive a refund of 250 Heavy Metal Plates via NPC.
January 2013: The required amount of Heavy Metal Plates is lowered from 1250 to 1000.

March 2013: Any player with a 95/99 empyrean weapon will receive a refund of 250 Heavy Metal Plates via NPC.
April 2013: The required amount of Heavy Metal Plates is lowered from 1000 to 750.

August 2013: Any player with a 95/99 empyrean weapon will receive a refund of 250 Heavy Metal Plates via NPC.
September 2013: The required amount of Heavy Metal Plates is lowered from 750 to 500.

Maybe not exactly as such, but it might be a relatively fair adjustment...

1: Increased supply of Heavy Metal Plates
2: Increased demand of Heavy Metal Plates
3: Players who completed the trial at 1500 Heavy Metal Plates gradually receives a refund of 1000. Player has the option to complete two more 95 Empyreans or to sell them to others.
4: Should be a relatively fair balance between those who do the 500 HMP trial and those who do the 1500 HMP trial... at 500 HMP trials, the price might actually spike as the trial becomes "doable" for people who couldn't manage it now. Hard to predict if the increased supply would balance with the demand... we're talking 1000 HMP for every Empyrean weapon out there to be recycled back into circulation. Furthermore, any heavy metal plate over 500 used per trial would again be recycled.

Perhaps 500 is too low if using this method, or the refund may need to be less generous, as it might cause an overflow of 95 weapons (which SE won't allow). I do think, however, once the trials hit 500 HMP in mid-late 2013, the abundant supply would dry up rather quickly.

I think they need to drop the requirement to at most 1000 plates, increase the drop rate of plates/pouches on everything that drops them, and ignore trying to give anyone a refund and the crying that ensues because of it, as thats just silly. BTW, my Ukon is 99 and I have like 500 plates on a mule, Im undecided if I care enough about NIN to finish Kannagi or not.

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Originally Posted by wish12oz

I think they need to drop the requirement to at most 1000 plates, increase the drop rate of plates/pouches on everything that drops them, and ignore trying to give anyone a refund and the crying that ensues because of it, as thats just silly.

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This. Not only would this not be nearly as bad as the relic building nerf was, additionally people who have completed this trial did so right after relic builders were shafted. They knew very well what they could expect in the future. If they did lower the amount I'd be surprised if anyone was shocked about it.

Simple fix to supply if they wanted. Plates can drop in junk slots, plates always drop in HQ slots if it is not a HQ item. In the case of Pouch NMs pouches would still be HQ drops in the HQ slot, anything that is junk in the HQ slot should be a normal plate still. Abyssea gave 1 item on every kill always and you only required 50~75 of them, that number is 1/20th at most of the plate requirement I think it fair we always get at least 1 plate on NMs that drop them if not more.

The 1500 plate requirement was to make Empyreans on par with Relic/Mythic. SE figures that the time/cost/effort of getting 99 Relic/Mythic/Empyrean are all about equal by the time you hit 99. Whereas the Relic/Mythic money/time sink stages are in the beggining with currency cost or WS trials, the empyrean trials are extremely easy to take to the 90 version. So the long/ardous trial for Relic/Mythic is simply building it but after it's 75, it's mostly smooth sailing to 99. For Empyrean, it's smooth sailing to 90 then the plates/rift are the expensive/ardous task from 95-99. So technically the trials are balanced somewhat. If the HMP trial was only 200-300 you could theoretically build a 99 empyrean in less than a week if you were rich.

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Originally Posted by Ophannus

The 1500 plate requirement was to make Empyreans on par with Relic/Mythic. SE figures that the time/cost/effort of getting 99 Relic/Mythic/Empyrean are all about equal by the time you hit 99. Whereas the Relic/Mythic money/time sink stages are in the beggining with currency cost or WS trials, the empyrean trials are extremely easy to take to the 90 version. So the long/ardous trial for Relic/Mythic is simply building it but after it's 75, it's mostly smooth sailing to 99. For Empyrean, it's smooth sailing to 90 then the plates/rift are the expensive/ardous task from 95-99. So technically the trials are balanced somewhat. If the HMP trial was only 200-300 you could theoretically build a 99 empyrean in less than a week if you were rich.

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So they pretty much do what they've always done. Piss off a whole bunch of people to protect the egos of a tiny segment of the population. I'm rather fond of calling people out on skewed perspectives and the devs have a really skewed one here.

Fine where it is, the level of commitment going from 90 to 95 is pretty great. And instill's a nice level of pride for being able to dump that much gil into one thing. I wouldn't want to see it drop, it would only cheapen the victory of finishing it.And lessen the sense of accomplishment.

What will happen when VW is old content that nobody cares to do anymore though? That 1500 will end up being one hell of a lot harder to come by if they don't do something about the current system.

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Originally Posted by Ophannus

The 1500 plate requirement was to make Empyreans on par with Relic/Mythic. SE figures that the time/cost/effort of getting 99 Relic/Mythic/Empyrean are all about equal by the time you hit 99. Whereas the Relic/Mythic money/time sink stages are in the beggining with currency cost or WS trials, the empyrean trials are extremely easy to take to the 90 version. So the long/ardous trial for Relic/Mythic is simply building it but after it's 75, it's mostly smooth sailing to 99. For Empyrean, it's smooth sailing to 90 then the plates/rift are the expensive/ardous task from 95-99. So technically the trials are balanced somewhat. If the HMP trial was only 200-300 you could theoretically build a 99 empyrean in less than a week if you were rich.

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While your idea on why they did it seems about right, the way they did it was stupid in the end.

Relic
Coins=8k
Byne=8k
Shells=6k
Lv75 Total=121~142Mil
Umbral Marrow=15~20Mil
Start-Lv99 Total=196~242Mil



Mythic
Various Battlefield Currencys
Alexandrite=20~23k
Lv75 Total=600~690Mil
Mulcibar's Scoria=10Mil
Lv99 Total=630~720Mil



Empyrean
Lv75 Total=0
Heavy Metal=100~120k
Riftcinder=1.5Mil
Riftdross=750k
Lv99 Total=195~270Mil



Relic:196~242Mil
Mythic:630~720Mil
Empyrean:195~270Mil



While Relics & Emps may be closer in terms of cost if you do not obtain them otherwise, Mythic is still 3 times the cost. Also as seen with most people faced with this massive jump in price and difficulty Emps will stay at 85~90 but never reach 95 due to the Plate stage. Which mostly make this a pointless gesture on their part because by raising the cost they simply created to many people leaving weapons at lv90 with no intent to get it higher. 90 is still a good weapon, and alot of people do not see the point in spending what would be 150~180Mil on what is anywhere between 4~14DMG and 1~2 on the WS mod stat.



Alot of people are perfectly content with a lv90 Emp for no money only effort rather than a lv95~99 Emp/Relic that will cost them nearly or more than 200Mil in the end but only reward them with a little more DMG/Stats.

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Originally Posted by tyrantsyn

Fine where it is, the level of commitment going from 90 to 95 is pretty great. And instill's a nice level of pride for being able to dump that much gil into one thing. I wouldn't want to see it drop, it would only cheapen the victory of finishing it.And lessen the sense of accomplishment.

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Tell that to all of us who finished the Old School Chains of Promathia storyline. Then ask me if I care if SE changes the requirements for getting your Relics / Mythics / Empyreans to 95 / 99. I mean I'm glad you love the game so much that you felt the need / desire to take the time to get everything to make your weapon, but seriously if you're going to whine if they change the requirements / drop rate of Alexandrite and or Heavy Metal Plates, then you need to reexamine why you're playing the game. If they change the requirements , who cares... oh wait You do because then you won't be so special anymore.

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Originally Posted by tyrantsyn

Fine where it is, the level of commitment going from 90 to 95 is pretty great. And instill's a nice level of pride for being able to dump that much gil into one thing. I wouldn't want to see it drop, it would only cheapen the victory of finishing it.And lessen the sense of accomplishment.

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They cheapened a ton of 'accomplishments' with upping the level cap.

Individuals have tons of Empyrean weapons and it'd be great if people could actually finish them sometime before the sun engulfs the Earth. Making mobs like Ig-Alima, Rex, Bismarck, Morta drop pouches while offering single plates in the non-HQ dropslots would be fair since these mobs are designed for lvl99 and are difficult relative to the Zilart 3 which were for a 95 cap.

Further, CoP and ToAU T1s are harder than Zilart so why arent these too dropping plates/pouches? No one currently does them because they offer no incentive and this then chokes the market for new items needed to build new abjuration gear because once people get clears on the T1s no one repeats these battlefields.

Crafters and players would benefit from spreading these Heavy Metal plates around at the least to TOAU/COP T1s at a higher rate than Zilart T3.

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Originally Posted by Reiterpallasch

More so than the huge number alone, I think the bigger issue is that VW is already starting to slow down. It's probably likely that HMP will soon go the way of alexandrite, especially when the new expansion hits.

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This is the only real problem with plates. 1500 is nothing in the grand sceme of weapons. This same issue aplies to the trials above plates as well.
And if people want to argure how much more relic costs, they're full of it, you can solo plates.

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Originally Posted by Tsukino_Kaji

And if people want to argure how much more relic costs.

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Not sure who would argue that relic costs more. Plates alone cost more than an entire relic weapon from start up to lv95 with the same amount of work if not less seeing as it is much easier to solo the WS trials for Relics than it is to solo making an Emp. Like I showed in my math, relics cost 196~242Mil from start to 99 and Empyreans cost 195~270Mil. Emps are more expensive after the Lv90 trials and more work before that than you see in Relics during their WS/NM trials.

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Originally Posted by Demon6324236

Not sure who would argue that relic costs more. Plates alone cost more than an entire relic weapon from start up to lv95 with the same amount of work if not less seeing as it is much easier to solo the WS trials for Relics than it is to solo making an Emp. Like I showed in my math, relics cost 196~242Mil from start to 99 and Empyreans cost 195~270Mil. Emps are more expensive after the Lv90 trials and more work before that than you see in Relics during their WS/NM trials.

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Try quoting the whole thing before you post against it, you're arguing half a sentance and not even the part that had the point to it. Besides, if you bought plates, it'd cost you 150m which is the aporximate market value of a relic.

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Originally Posted by Tsukino_Kaji

Try quoting the whole thing before you post against it, you're arguing half a sentance and not even the part that had the point to it. Besides, if you bought plates, it'd cost you 150m which is the aporximate market value of a relic.

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Relic
Coins=8k
Byne=8k
Shells=6k
Lv75 Total=121~142Mil

Most expensive relic is the gun according to these prices which are around or slightly higher than Phoenix average. Average relic cost is 130Mil or so, not 150. As for arguing that part, yes, I argue the part I saw incorrect. As for the rest of it I think it goes without saying that supply is a problem, same with Alexandrite. If they were to increase the amount of Plates however it would need to be by a large number, even only doubling it would not make much difference because the increased numbers would drive more people to try getting them keeping prices the same or rising them higher along with the demand which would lead to potential shortage again.

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Originally Posted by Tsukino_Kaji

which is the aporximate market value of a relic.

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Last I checked 142 is approximately 150, but you're traying from teh point of the thread here and still going on about something COMPLETELY different then the half a sentance you quoted earlier. Something needs to be fixed about plates and it's not the quantity.

If you think the lv 95 trials are hard, you didn't look into the 99 trials. HMP trials are fine, because the HMP price is comparable to what you have to do to get a 95 relic, and 90 trials cost almost nothing even if you buy POP items (I spent less than 15 Mils for AH pops on daurdabla trials for example.)

What's more HMP is very common in bazars, the supply is there if you are willing to pay for 120~150k.

The 99 trials are bullcrap. Riftcinder is especially rare and hunted down in bazars by many people, price jump to retarded amounts. 99 trials for relics are the opposite: umbral marrows are massively farmed, and their bazar prices has droped a lot in the last 2 months.

Whether you think those upgrades are not worth it or are worth is not the issue. If you want the best weapon for your job, you have to make them. I see many people claim they are not worth it because they "only" give DMG lol. DMG is awsome. It means in any situation, melee or WS, hard mobs or lower mobs, your damage improves, contrary to +STR/DEX/ATT/ACC etc. Vereth and spharai get 10~15% dmg up from 90 to 95 which is a lot.

I'd aggree though, that Daurdabla lv 95 trials is a masochist joke form the Devs because the upgrades are actually = to nothing (skill doesnt mean anything anymore to brd). They are just a painful step for the true upgrade: lv 99 trials.

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Originally Posted by Teraniku

Tell that to all of us who finished the Old School Chains of Promathia storyline. Then ask me if I care if SE changes the requirements for getting your Relics / Mythics / Empyreans to 95 / 99. I mean I'm glad you love the game so much that you felt the need / desire to take the time to get everything to make your weapon, but seriously if you're going to whine if they change the requirements / drop rate of Alexandrite and or Heavy Metal Plates, then you need to reexamine why you're playing the game. If they change the requirements , who cares... oh wait You do because then you won't be so special anymore.

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Relax sweet heart before you pop a blood vessel and have a stroke.

@ Sparthos An I agree with you, I do think there need's to be more option past VW to get these and the 95-99 items.

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Originally Posted by Vivivivi

I think the number required is alright, when you can get 6-11 HMP on something like a qilin run, but I agree the drop rate should be considered for adjustment. I have all priepts for VW, and did Qilin 18 times yesterday, and didn't get a single HMP. Each Qilin had capped lights, and I traded 3 rubi cells each time and even 3 cobalt on 4 of the runs. If you received 10-20 for doing that many pops each time, 1500 at least seems obtainable, especially considering you can buy them from bazaars.

I should note this was the worst drop rate i've experienced with HMP, I usually at the very least get a pouch of 3 from a x6 Qilin or Aello run.

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Sounds like you would be better off just taking the cruor and turn it into Gil and just buy the plates.

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Originally Posted by svengalis

Sounds like you would be better off just taking the cruor and turn it into Gil and just buy the plates.

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Oh I wasn't even after the HMP for myself, I was just reporting back how often they dropped in a lengthy run. I don't plan on taking an empyrean weapon past level 90 for a long time if ever.

You guys are blaming SE because PLAYERS have decided the price of the plates? Correct me if I am wrong. Stop buying the plates at ridiculous prices and they will drop.

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Originally Posted by Tamoa

I finished 99 Ukon in March, that was what - around 6 months after the trial was implemented, so I'd hardly call myself an early adopter. Furthermore, it would have taken a lot longer if not for the fact I'm blessed with some amazing friends who gave me a total of 600ish plates that they'd gotten from fights.




Wrong. If the amount is lowered, I'll get angry because it would mean I have wasted millions of gil, and my awesome friends might as well have thrown away all the plates they gave to me.

I would in fact welcome it if SE makes heavy metal plates (and riftdross/riftcinder) easier to get. I have friends that want to upgrade their weapon(s), and I'd love to see them do just that.

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No one forced you to buy the plates that was your own decision.

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Originally Posted by Monchat

If you think the lv 95 trials are hard, you didn't look into the 99 trials. HMP trials are fine, because the HMP price is comparable to what you have to do to get a 95 relic, and 90 trials cost almost nothing even if you buy POP items (I spent less than 15 Mils for AH pops on daurdabla trials for example.)

What's more HMP is very common in bazars, the supply is there if you are willing to pay for 120~150k.

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Let me just quickly point out, that anything more than 100k for plates and they are no where near the same cost as a Relic. At 100k its 150Mil vs 121~142Mil. At 110k its 165Mil, with 120k its 180Mil. 150k each would be completely stupid pricing because once you get that high you are talking about 225Mil, which is more than 1.7 times the price of an average Relic.

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The 99 trials are bullcrap. Riftcinder is especially rare and hunted down in bazars by many people, price jump to retarded amounts. 99 trials for relics are the opposite: umbral marrows are massively farmed, and their bazar prices has droped a lot in the last 2 months.

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Yes, lv99 trials are bad as well, but not alot of point in complaining about them when alot of people don't actually make it that far due to the problem of Plates.

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Whether you think those upgrades are not worth it or are worth is not the issue. If you want the best weapon for your job, you have to make them. I see many people claim they are not worth it because they "only" give DMG lol. DMG is awsome. It means in any situation, melee or WS, hard mobs or lower mobs, your damage improves, contrary to +STR/DEX/ATT/ACC etc. Vereth and spharai get 10~15% dmg up from 90 to 95 which is a lot.

I'd aggree though, that Daurdabla lv 95 trials is a masochist joke form the Devs because the upgrades are actually = to nothing (skill doesnt mean anything anymore to brd). They are just a painful step for the true upgrade: lv 99 trials.

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Thats the thing, they are worth upgrading just not at the cost were talking about. The DMG is good to have but when it comes down to it I ask myself. Do I want my Almace to get lv95, or would I rather make another job of mine a relic from start to lv95 for less money even? The trials become worthless at that time because while they offer benefits they aren't worth the cost.

Just a final note by the way, I'm sorry to say but your claim at the inability to find Cinder/Dross is somewhat belittled by the fact you actually wasted enough Cinder to get afterglow on your H2H...

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Originally Posted by svengalis

You guys are blaming SE because PLAYERS have decided the price of the plates? Correct me if I am wrong. Stop buying the plates at ridiculous prices and they will drop.

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Supply and demand effect pricing. Currently the supply and demand is keeping prices at 100~120k each. If SE made the amount needed smaller or increased the supply to a proper amount the price would decrease with time.

You guys kill me with the " cost" of these weapons. They don't cost anything if you play the game and farm the materials yourself.

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Originally Posted by svengalis

You guys kill me with the " cost" of these weapons. They don't cost anything if you play the game and farm the materials yourself.

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On average T3 Jeuno parties I see 2 plates in 6 kills. On average T3 Zilart I see 1 pouch for every 10~12 kills. Farming the materials would take roughly 4500 T3 Jeuno NMs, or with extreme luck, around 1200 T3 Zilart NMs.

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Originally Posted by svengalis

You guys kill me with the " cost" of these weapons. They don't cost anything if you play the game and farm the materials yourself.

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Your statement is idiotic. It's essentially impossible to farm up the HMP yourself.

Also, if you believe that SE isn't going to lower the 1500 number and that HMP will not come from any other sources in the future then you would be foolish not to be buying now. Right now, VW is still going (mostly) strong. Pulse cells have extended VW's lifetime a bit. But if SE introduces gear that is accessible to the masses and surpasses pulse gear then VW will die. And the HMP market will dry up.

Provided you get a 30 one-hundred piece loan (and most do), you can easily knock off about 20m+ for the cost of a relic.

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Originally Posted by Tamoa

As one of those people that have actually done that trial, I'd be really p****d if they did lower the requirement, I have to admit that. Then again, SE has trolled people this way before (relic trials) and if they did decide to lower the number of plates there's nothing I can do about it.

Would be better if plates were easier to come by - higher drop rates, alternative sources.

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simple fix announce the change give a 1-2 week grace period disable the 1500 trial allow any 95's to trade in for the difference then implement the new 95 trial, that way peeps who were real gogetters don't get royally screwed and we can still fix an otherwise crappy decision on the dev teams part.

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Originally Posted by svengalis

You guys kill me with the " cost" of these weapons. They don't cost anything if you play the game and farm the materials yourself.

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lol. It costs you time then... and it was obvious from the first week the trials were released that it would be impossible to farm solo (oh yeah lets farm 2 years for HMP when farmign the gil takes 1 month in dynamis).

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Originally Posted by Demon6324236

Just a final note by the way, I'm sorry to say but your claim at the inability to find Cinder/Dross is somewhat belittled by the fact you actually wasted enough Cinder to get afterglow on your H2H...

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That's why I know the best how hard they are to get. As soon as 2 ou 3 people buy them at the same time, they do not pop in bazars you have to shout all day. I felt lucky when I found 3 in bazars after the JP go to sleep.

1500 is ridiculous with current game design. SE needs to either A) Lower the amount, or B) radically increase supply. Insert HMPs into the drop slots of the other items, insert pouch's into everything higher then Jeuno T3.