Doublecast

The ability has been called different things throughout the series (Doublecast, X-Magic), but I think something like this would really help RDM out. An ability on a 2 minute or less cooldown that makes our next spell cast on the target twice. This would obviously only be useful for nukes and cures, but I think it could give RDM some sort of "burst" that might bump them back up towards where the other jobs are at. Plus the cooldown would keep it from being overpowered.

Opinions, ideas? Would Tricast be too much? What about MP cost?

A good idea until you're short on MP. This, of course, wouldn't be a problem if the second spell had a 0MP cost.

Doublecast got implemented as Red Mage getting stupid amounts of Fast Cast.

Then we got the Quick Magic JA on top of that.

Lots of us had mentioned this sorta ability, My version was either causing a 2x potency (rather than 2x cast) or change it into a stance, giving both 50% more potency, and 50% more MP cost to all elemental/healing magic (selectively dark/divine? Ineffective on most enfeebling/enhancing, but i guess in theory could be applied for select blue magic and ninjutsu and not work on songs/summoning but under stipulation that it is only applied to rdm main subbing select jobs) However this is kinda overpowering (offset by rdm's weaker spell library). Conversely they gave us a mini-2hour to more or less do this. Just with a super-long recast.

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Originally Posted by cidbahamut

Doublecast got implemented as Red Mage getting stupid amounts of Fast Cast.

Then we got the Quick Magic JA on top of that.

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Before being passed on to basically every job possible.

They implemented it already, it's called Spontaneity and it sucks for the most part. SE screwed it up in two ways, first giving it a 10min recast, and second by "barancing" it out by allowing casting on other party members.

Should act just like Saboteur and have a 5min recast at the most, but hey that's Tanaka for you.

It's called Spontaneity. Just set it up with a macro and WHAM...doublecast.

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Originally Posted by saevel

They implemented it already, it's called Spontaneity and it sucks for the most part. SE screwed it up in two ways, first giving it a 10min recast, and second by "barancing" it out by allowing casting on other party members.

Should act just like Saboteur and have a 5min recast at the most, but hey that's Tanaka for you.

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Even five minutes is too much. 3 minutes I'd say maximum. same for BLM's one.

Actually, if Camate or any of the other CR's is reading this (probably not but hey /shrug). Could you please ask the developers are reducing the recast on Spontaneity? 10min is too long to give it any real usefulness. 5min or less would allow us to realistically incorporate it into our strategies and play style.

Going to forewarn this with the following disclaimer: I am *not* a RDM, only leveled it to 49 for a sub on BLU.

However, I think the initial idea of having Dualcast would be a great thing for RDMs...although the idea seems a little limited. Let's try to expand on it, shall we?

Dualcast - Level 60 RDM Job Ability
Duration: 30s-1min or until both spells have been cast
Recast Timer: 1min-1min30s (Have to give it *some* use. 2 minutes would seem a little too long, IMO.)

Effect: Allows two spells to be cast simultaneously.
Clarification: Once the Dualcast JA has been used, you have the duration time to select two spells in your spell list. Once both are selected (the first spell is "stored" until you select the second), the initial casting times (before Fast Cast, Slow/Haste, Addle, and Spontaneity are factored in) are compared, and the longest cast time is used as the time when both spells fire (Fast Cast, Slow/Haste, Addle, and Spontaneity will still affect casting time), both spells casting at the same time once the time is complete. If one spell is selected twice, both will fire off without the "Unable to cast spell" error popping up.
Bonus: This is the tricky part. Once Saboteur is attained, this can also affect Dualcast. If either (or both) of the spells being Dualcast enfeeble the opponent, they will be affected by Saboteur. (example: Slow and Paralyze are selected for Dualcast, with Saboteur being active before spells are cast. Both spells will be affected by Saboteur, not just one.)

Thoughts? Comments? Questions? Concerns? I figure this would be a way that not only gives something unique to RDM, but allows them to stay as their series-staple "jack of all trades".

I think a Double Cast effect might more effectively as the casting equivalent of Double Attack, where the spell is selected and cast once, but has a chance of firing twice. As an example:

1. Select spell/macro
2. "Spell hits <t> for x damage"
"Spell hits <t> for x damage"

Player casts once, if Double Cast procs, the spell lands twice, the second costing MP just as if one had chosen to select and cast the spell twice oneself.

This would obviously require some rules programmed in. If an enfeeble lands the first time, a second landing doesn't mean squat. It might not suck for Cures, but it shouldn't land twice if the first cast topped off the target's HP.

In the end, the problem with a Double Cast ability/trait is that the only time it really serves much purpose is nuking.

Can't imagine Sun's idea being any harder to put in than Double Shot for RNG Was. I do however think the MP cost of the second spell should be halved, especially if it will be a "Random" Stance.

I don't think the idea of random stance, Especially if say.. You're Buffing Stoneskin, Phalanx, Protect... So a stance with random proc would kinda suck and blow your MP a lot if you had to rebuff with it on.

Alternatively, Double Cast could only effect nukes and Cures, Which then would only really hurt cures, If you're trying to Cure IV someone and it double casts, over-Cures, and you're out the MP.

I think a simple Job Ability, on 1-2 Minute timer, casts a spell twice back to back (Despot style)... Would be the best bet. or, Double MP Cost + Double Damage. (Sch gets an Ability similar to this though).

Well, that's why I said the concept would have to be implemented with special rules:

a) Double Cast simply wouldn't work on Enhancing and Enfeebling magic, or ...

b) The Trait/Ability is programmed such that it couldn't proc on a spell that has successfully landed it's effect (such as a successful Paralyze or any Enhancing magic), or if the target's HP has reached 100% (in the case of Cures).

I didn't suggest any change in mana costs since, essentially, you are casting the spell twice, just without the manual effort or recast timer. Of course, with that kind of penalty, it might be better off as a Job Ability rather than a Trait.

See, that's why I made the suggestions I made, with you being able to select the two spells you want to dualcast. Looking back at the history of Dualcast, under every name it's more or less been in (Double from 8, Double Black/Double White from 9, Doublecast from 10, W-Magic command materia from 7), you've almost always been able to select two separate spells from your magic list, some incarnations having specific limits over what you could dualcast (Black Magic only in 10, White and Black Magic only in 4 DS, all except Blue Magic in 5). Being able to select the spells you have on your spell list that you want to dualcast only seems to be a natural staple for the series.

Granted, the only issue is that you're essentially playing in a much more real-time setting than any of the other games, much more real-time than the ATB systems in prior games, so selecting two separate spells or two targets for one spell each would be tricky, but somewhat doable. Heck, think of the possibilities that could be employed.
-Someone is paralyzed and has some damage dealt to them, and you're /WHM? Dualcast Paralyna and a Cure spell on that person.
-Two mobs are running loose, and your Sleepga spell is down? Dualcast Sleep II on each mob (provided they don't have shadows).
-Need to create a burst of magic damage for whatever reason? Dualcast your strongest nuke on the mob in question.
-Starting a longer fight and need to throw down some debuffs? Dualcast two debuffs at once with Saboteur up to strengthen both of them simultaneously.

There are *plenty* of possibilities available if you simply allow the spells to be selected manually instead of the JA automatically casting the same spell twice in one go. Both spells would still cost the same MP, both spells would be down for the same amount of time as if they were cast normally (maybe even down for 50% longer if cast twice, but that would be a greater penalty than what I would put on it), and you still get the added bonus of using Spontaneity to have an instant cast for both, or all of your Fast Cast gear.

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Originally Posted by Sunrider

I think a Double Cast effect might more effectively as the casting equivalent of Double Attack, where the spell is selected and cast once, but has a chance of firing twice. As an example:

1. Select spell/macro
2. "Spell hits <t> for x damage"
"Spell hits <t> for x damage"

Player casts once, if Double Cast procs, the spell lands twice, the second costing MP just as if one had chosen to select and cast the spell twice oneself.

This would obviously require some rules programmed in. If an enfeeble lands the first time, a second landing doesn't mean squat. It might not suck for Cures, but it shouldn't land twice if the first cast topped off the target's HP.

In the end, the problem with a Double Cast ability/trait is that the only time it really serves much purpose is nuking.

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I'd be pretty disgruntled if they implemented something like this. All I see it doing is making me less mp-efficient and spiking hate when I don't need it. Control is pretty key and an ability like this would take away a lot of my control. I don't want to find myself in a situation where my MP pool just emptied itself when I had carefully rationed out just enough to give me a safety net for Convert while under duress.

People keep asking for double-cast, but it's already here under two different names:
Fast Cast and Spontaneity.

Or you could just have the second cast not use mp at all, then that should solve the problem.

Or you could have a job ability that last for like 1 minute that gives a double cast effect, and you can click the Job Ability Icon off if you don't want to use it while it is in effect.

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Originally Posted by Badieh

Or you could just have the second cast not use mp at all, then that should solve the problem.

Or you could have a job ability that last for like 1 minute that gives a double cast effect, and you can click the Job Ability Icon off if you don't want to use it while it is in effect.

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"oh cool, our RDM doublecast proc'ed on thunder4, so glad we didn't bring a blm or sch!", says no one.

I agree, double attack should proc on magic spells and not cost additional MP for the 2nd cast.

(I totally didn't read anything else on the thread)

Anyone else want their generous amounts of Double Attack from Temper, Brutal Earring, and D.A. Khandga to go to their magic as well?

Would be very nice :D

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Originally Posted by ManaKing

Anyone else want their generous amounts of Double Attack from Temper, Brutal Earring, and D.A. Khandga to go to their magic as well?

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It's an odd one as unless it was MP cost free, random chance of double cast would be annoying.

Yeah free cast for the 2nd one or I'm not interested either.

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Originally Posted by ManaKing

Yeah free cast for the 2nd one or I'm not interested either.

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Instead of double cast, what about a Conserve 100% MP effect combined with Quick Recast? That way, you can recast the spell right away if you want.

Sure. I could easily go for that. If Quick Magic ate the mp cost for the spell, I couldn't complain. That would essentially make Quick Magic good, instead of mostly bad, which is how many see it right now. I wouldn't even ask that it be RDM exclusive. I would love it if everyone could stack as much Quick as their hearts desire.

You can get like ~12% Quick right now. So long as they didn't add much more it would be balanced enough. SCH has their set bonus. I wouldn't mind a spell for RDM and SCH called Quick that could add another 5-10%(1~2% per every 100 points of enhancing magic).

Sure would be horrible to throw mages a bone every once in a while. /sarcasm