RIP RDM

:(
before the event i was rly hopeful, but now..... T.T

So much good ideas and become rdm only one? no alltime other (new) jobs.
RLY SE for what you want rdm?

Geo and RFN is the last coffinnail for the rdm

I didn't understand a word of that, but I assume you're complaining about Geomancer and Rune Fencer totally infringing on our turf and making RDM even more obsolete than it already was, in which case I agree wholeheartedly.

RIP Rdm, I spent a lot of hours when I started this game years ago getting my Rdm to be all that it could be, now it hasn't been out of the MH since Abyssea started except to level up to 99. I don't understand why they have done this to us. I wish they would just tell us why. I see new people who have just started the game talking about how much they love Rdm and not realizing that once you get to end game you are not wanted, except when you are with friends, its not fair to them. All that time spend leveling a first job.../cry.

Sadly I have barely touched RDM, and soon I'll have an even better reason not to with GEO and RFN around.

RIP RDM. You were my pride and joy for a good while, but now I've moved on to DRK, and soon GEO. Maybe RFN too if things look right for me.

According to live feed speculations, Rune Fencer (more likely rune knight) Will not be as much a melee-mage as much as a magic tank, and its "En-Effects" could be misinterperited. Way it seems Geo is BLM+BRD sorta, a debuffer and nuker (on tier with us for nukes, sporting T4 nukes) and Rune Fencer seems to be more a JA popper (via strategem like charges as far as i gather) rather than a spell caster, but i could be wrong. In either even neither have native healing spells. While it is disheartening, im not too worried.

Oh no, someone can enfeeb like us, not like WHM/BRD/BLM/SCH/BLU/COR/NIN could do that.
Oh no, someone can nuke like us, not like theres jobs that do that.
Oh look, drk and pld have enspells, it is the end of days!
Oh dear, Runefencer is around (which name makes it seem dangerous to us BUT) Im sure they will be the death of us.

Sub rdm gave convert, refresh, fastcast, cure IV, stoneskin, phalanx, aquaveil, blink, yet theres still rdms around. Not to mention, whos gonna take a hybrid buffer GEO over a COR and BLM? Well we cant say they wont be used but leaked info doesnt say look well. And unless RuneFencer absorbs magic damage taken to heal, i doubt it will replace pld as a tank. So like i said, im not worried.

It's been dead for a <<Long time>>

GEO is getting Elemental Magic up to Tier 4 and they have higher skill than us (B-). Additionally they get AoE sphere aura buffs and debuffs, something the developers told RDM a few months ago that platers would never get because sphere effects would be too strong.

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Originally Posted by Zerich

It's been dead for a <<Long time>>

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RDM was like a vampire. Sure, it was dead. It was undead. And people were still in fear when they saw one. (Normally, the fear was something like "omg, that guy still thinks RDM is relevant! Run away!"

This expansion just serves as the proverbial wooden stake.

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Originally Posted by Crimson_Slasher

whos gonna take a hybrid buffer GEO over a COR and BLM?

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Well, if stuff continues to be the ZergFest that it is, GEO will easily replace BLM if the buffs will stack with COR and BRD. Outside of VW for procs, how often do you actually use BLM anyway?

My point is more that a cor is already a hybrid buffer that can inflict magic damage. And i actually use BLM quite a bit in various events, though i wont bother listing them because then the argument of "thats old content and doesnt count" comes up. The problem though is why take a geomancer for anything more than its buffs? And you have to hope its buffs are worth using. As for the skill rating, B- vs what? C+? Its not a huge gap and lacks native fastcast. So rdm will still be as good if not better as a nuker. Or are all the dnc just not as good as thf with them because their skill is one rank down? Lets face it, while these jobs will take some of the things people make rdm do, they arent taking everything, and even the things they do take, theres no evidence they will do it all better anyway. And they still lack heals in either event (atleast as been stated so far.)

But im sure we can assume the magic tank class, and the nuking buffer are out to hurt rdm most, not like there will be competition between GEO/SMN/BRD/COR or Between PLD/RNF right? Look deeper than the surface people. Even if rdm isnt relevent in content it doesnt mean it has been replaced. We just havent had events that cater to our abilities anymore. Id like more for rdm, but you guys are assuming it wont just be LOLGEO and LOLRNF upon launch.

So fret, panic, and throw tantrums if you like but im not worried about the skill difference, or the fact another job gets enspells.

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Originally Posted by Crimson_Slasher

But im sure we can assume the magic tank class, and the nuking buffer are out to hurt rdm most, not like there will be competition between GEO/SMN/BRD/COR or Between PLD/RNF right? Look deeper than the surface people.

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PLD vs RNF will never happen, reflect or magic absorption is required to make any job as good of a magic tank as PLD is due to Aegis. GEO is another buffer to the spot is the point, and also enfeebling, hurting RDM's need to even exist as that is actually all people use RDM to do anymore. Will it hurt other jobs? Yes, it will, but it will hurt RDM much worse seeing as while other jobs have been getting updates and events they can use, RDM has been left for dead. Case in point, thread a while back asked about our merits changing because other jobs were, we got told the enfeebling update would help us out. Enfeebling update effects enfeebling jobs, not just RDM, unless skill was made to have a major impact on these spells it will mean nothing, and rather than that being the case they are talking about enfeebling being unable to even be resisted at all? People are talking about RDM being dead for a good reason, this shows more than ever that RDM still has no hope because SE has turned their backs on us.

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Originally Posted by Llana_Virren

RDM was like a vampire. Sure, it was dead. It was undead. And people were still in fear when they saw one. (Normally, the fear was something like "omg, that guy still thinks RDM is relevant! Run away!"

This expansion just serves as the proverbial wooden stake.

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Affliatus Solace, Minikin Monstrosity, Convert for everyone, Refresh for everyone, temp items, and the irrelevance of enfeebles weren't final enough?

With the expansion easily 6-7 months away, im not worried period. Never know what will/wont be dont to enfeebles between now and then. My only worry is that their enfeebles lists as "Unresistible" but if you are only taking a rdm for enfeebling, its a lazy rdm. Geo still at best will enfeeble as good as rdm, argueably better, possibly worse. Will heal worse, nuke about as well (I doubt 10 skill will make or break the nuking argument and if it does, their polarity+/rdm+gear+traits better match a rdm's fast cast values to compete...) and they lack the, admittedly neiche but existant melee ability rdm has. Also no telling if their buffs will have special effect types (Nature's Embrace for regen? North Wind for haste?) making them mesh. Lets not forget option of using either as subjob. As for events, Theres plenty jobs that are neglected or at best fringe for events. Not to mention, like i said, these could end up being "Loljobs".

If rdm is already dead as a doornail, then why fret about a new job to replace it? Especially if replacing the buffer role that many of us didnt want. Nin didnt rep us as enfeeblers, and neither have any of the others, the issue is more enfeebling isnt needed. So as far as im concerned, rdm is in no more danger from GEO than it is from DRG or MNK. And even as an enfeebler it seems like Geo's ability will be of select use as it seems their effects being aura based around either themselves, or a location planted on the field, any mob moving about on a rampage will be randomly enfeebled then freed then enfeebled again where as a rdm may be more suited to enfeebling a target like that (like ones with hate resets, which is like...everything now?) So at best i can see a rdm being a boss debuffer, and geo a fodder hoard debuffer.

Granted the jobs arent out, and they very will could dismantle whats left of rdm, but with atleast half a year to go, and lots of possible updates along the way, i think its pretty damn early for people to go be so "Doom-And-Gloom" already. Not to mention those fun tags they love to sling saying "Finished product may differ from depiction" or something to that effect.

Ill say it every time, Im not worried.

Edit: Besides, i dont know why you are all worried, the world is supposed to end at the end of the year anyway. I guess if people can believe that, i suppose i can see why you're all scared!

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Originally Posted by Zerich

Affliatus Solace, Minikin Monstrosity, Convert for everyone, Refresh for everyone, temp items, and the irrelevance of enfeebles weren't final enough?

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Well, there was always hope. That's what this expansion kills. :)

I really don't understand all the negativity shown towards Rdm both in & out of Abyssea, I don't care about the new jobs due in 2013, when they arrive & have been tried & tested in battle we'll see exactly what they are made of !
Until then if I'm running a party wherever it may be you better believe I want a Rdm in my line-up.
Front-line or back their versatility is so useful I just cannot forsee when they would not be useful, the tide of battle can chop & change as we all know, Blm, Whm, Dd, Tank, Rdm can step in to all of these shoes & ok whilst not 100% up to the specialists they don't half do a very good imitation !
So . . . don't despair all you Rdm's out there, there's a full-time Bst here who really does appreciate what you can do & who has cause to thank you !
Up your various pipes !
Jon :)

Jeubond wrote:

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So . . . don't despair all you Rdm's out there, there's a full-time Bst here who really does appreciate what you can do & who has cause to thank you !

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After the weekend i've just had, finding no PT on my lower jobs, and no invites on my mains, and how the new jobs seem to be taking everything suggested in these forums in the last two years for RDM but Amnesia spell, but to hear someone actually wanting RDM made my day.

Thank you very much Jeubond, may Altana bless you with a winning ticket in Goldie Gobbie.

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Originally Posted by lllen

RIP Rdm, I spent a lot of hours when I started this game years ago getting my Rdm to be all that it could be, now it hasn't been out of the MH since Abyssea started except to level up to 99. I don't understand why they have done this to us. I wish they would just tell us why. I see new people who have just started the game talking about how much they love Rdm and not realizing that once you get to end game you are not wanted, except when you are with friends, its not fair to them. All that time spend leveling a first job.../cry.

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have you ever played a FF11 where RDM was any thing better than a support job by the time of end game?

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Originally Posted by hideka

have you ever played a FF11 where RDM was any thing better than a support job by the time of end game?

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I remember a time when drk was only viable as a sj for RDM....

I don't usually pay too much attention to RDM, but I happened to come across this the other day, and I think it's extremely relevant to the subject at hand.

Click here for source::

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-Square specifically mentioned that GEO’s enfeebling gyve/fetter/whatever the fuck aura things DO NOT take up the same “slot” as a directly-casted enfeeble, meaning you can essentially have TWO OF THE SAME ENFEEBLES ON THE MOB AT THE SAME TIME.

If you are a red mage who wouldn’t give their left arm to have slow/para/whatever I and II stack, then I don’t even know where to begin.

-Unless your name is Rainemard or Kam’lanaut, your en-spells suck dick. If you think they’re a defining trait of red mage gameplay you’re wrong, and if you think they should be, then you need to turn in your RDM badge.

Yes we need fixing. No, GEO and RFR or RNF or whatever isn’t killing our job. They’re not even out yet. Stop being stupid.

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Originally Posted by Eric

I don't usually pay too much attention to RDM, but I happened to come across this the other day, and I think it's extremely relevant to the subject at hand.

Click here for source::

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Sadly it's not really relevant to the concern amongst RDMs (and former-RDMs):

--The comment was that the sphere/aura enfeebles would take their own "spot" was to answer the question of "what if it's a Paralyze proc and there's a paralyze aura in effect." As of right now, enfeebles are only relevant for procs, and WHM and BLM can both land them for proc, a RDM is not needed. RDM gains nothing from this statement.

--Slow I and II, Paralyze I and II and so forth do not stalk, so this comment is fluff at best. (As an aside, I frequently asked WARs to tomahawk or DRGs to Angon when I used Dia II/III because they did stack. But that's neither here nor there).

--The issue is that enspells were unique to RDM, not that they were game-breaking. The fact that only RDM had access to them made them a defining trait of RDM. You might want to figure out what "defining" means.

--Increasing the level cap took the uniqueness of Refresh and Convert away from RDM. SCH took away the usefulness of RDM capped Enhancing. while also blocking Refresh and Haste from working with Accession. Despite all of these, players continued to hope that with upcoming enhancements to the Merit Categories and spell effects that RDM might get a saving grace. Instead, the recommendations for enhancements to RDM were included in the development of two additional jobs.

Good or bad, effective or useless, prior to the level-cap increase, RDM was viable for, amongst other things, Enfeebliing (Dia III, Dispel), Enhancing (Refresh, anyone?) and Endurance (Refresh+Convert). This somewhat gave RDM relevance despite not having the higher tier magic spells of either White or Black schools of Magic.

--The melee aspect of RDM was already hindered due to the undeserved fear that everyone would become Avesta, and has been untouched since the dawn of time.

--The level cap, and subsequent enhancements made for WHM and BLM increased the gap between the "pure mages" and hybrid class, and by making Convert and Refresh sub-able reduced RDM to a "I wear it for looks" Chapeau class.

When a team of developers think think that creating two new jobs from "scratch" (read as: copy from existing jobs with some tweaks) is more important than fixing an irrelevent job, you will understand the genuine disappointment/sense of betrayal being echoed by the forsaken RDM masses.

Well Ill reply as if that post were here to show where its right or wrong in my opinion.

Enfeebling from 2 jobs stacking does not effect the fact that enfeebling in itself is not being fixed for RDM, its being fixed for all jobs, everything will land enfeebling, so RDM will still have little advantage.

I would love 2 RDM enfeebles to stack, you see, that would make RDM special, because then we could stack 2 enfeebles not 1, but instead there will still only be 1 from RDM, and 1 from GEO, so RDM para will be just slightly better than WHM para and people still wont care.

Enspells are not godly, they are a unique form of damage, I can hit flans, slimes, TEs in Dyna, and more with both melee & magic attacks, so if the enemy resists my melee, my magic damage picks up the slack a little. They are not good nor great, however they were ours, now they are being given a way to a job more likely to do more damage, this does hurt RDM as it takes away a feature of the job.

Yes, we do need fixing, no, the other jobs arnt here yet, but they represent something. RDM has been ditched, but we could always look to the future for hope because we had no idea what was on the way. Now we do, 2 new jobs, getting things we have, enfeebling updates that could very well ruin certain spells like the enfeebling resist spells, and help every mage with an enfeebling magic skill land spells all the same, not only us or mainly us. The jobs themselves do not ruin us, and the fact they are not here yet does not effect us, it is what they seem to mean, that SE has chosen to give them things we have asked for, and use the few spots we could still fill.

These jobs grasp at straws for some utilities we have, but neither is a huge threat. And if their future existence means our death, then im sure that spells doom for many other jobs, including bard for example (when was the last time they got a heavy adjustment? Dontcha think they mighta wanted some things geo may offer?)

Lots of jobs have gotten petty or few updates recently, our woes may be many but quite honestly i still use most my jobs a lot, if anything my RNG is my least used job at this point. With months before release, countless updates, and still many things we have over those jobs, yes, theres little threat from them. Also the fact that there are new jobs doesnt mean anything. Had the new jobs been say... "Berserker" and "Sniper" im sure the RNG and DRK and possibly sam/war forums would have been in an uproar! But instead, these are more flavors of non DD professions.

Lets look at the major facts so far, in response to geomancer, we still likely will have mp longevity, actual cure power to some degree, fastcast, effective defensive buffs, great damage mitigation tools and gear, as well as matching their nuke power, and having likely still more potent enfeebles. To get any/all of those they will require subbing us just as sch does, but sch hasnt totally replaced us either. Its just the fearful masses jumping to conclusions that because they are doing one thing, they cant possibly have any thoughts about working on something else ever.

This COULD be the death of rdm, maybe. But as we are still more flexible, even if rdm isnt wanted in EVERY DAMN EVENT like it was at 75, well, tough, not every job was wanted in every event then, ill take being accepted as a space filler or used for select events. Its been said, who doesnt have atleast 2 99 jobs these days?

Main problem here is people blowing things way the hell out of proportion! "Abyssea is over!" "Voidwatch is over!" "Dynamis is dead!" Well hate to break it to you all, but just because its not the new hot button making everyone wet their pants doesnt mean people arent still flocking to these and older events! Sorry if i dont shead a tear and feel left out of legion as rdm, but really if GEO or RNF are any more popular for these older, still vastly popular events, then i suppose we have a problem, but they already said they are designed to not be involved with them so i dont see a problem.

So SE, go ahead and make an event that Caters to GEO and RNF, because we can tell now, unless these jobs are truely, truely, truely broken, there is little chance it will put us out of a job. Dnc didnt, blu didnt, sch didnt. Hell whm only just recently took their job back.

There is a gigantic difference between "reading between the lines" and "Jumping the gun" or "Flying off the handle" or just plain over-reacting to this. Maybe the japanese players have capped all jobs to 99 and are demanding something else to level for all we know.

I am not worried, threatened, or upset at this news and look forward to the new jobs, zones, and possibility of these being useful for rdm/rng or rdm/geo play.

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Originally Posted by Crimson_Slasher

These jobs grasp at straws for some utilities we have, but neither is a huge threat. And if their future existence means our death, then im sure that spells doom for many other jobs, including bard for example (when was the last time they got a heavy adjustment? Dontcha think they mighta wanted some things geo may offer?)

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BRD is useful in current events and invited as such, RDM is at best a filler, and SCH normally takes its place instead because it is a better mage.

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Lots of jobs have gotten petty or few updates recently, our woes may be many but quite honestly i still use most my jobs a lot, if anything my RNG is my least used job at this point. With months before release, countless updates, and still many things we have over those jobs, yes, theres little threat from them. Also the fact that there are new jobs doesnt mean anything. Had the new jobs been say... "Berserker" and "Sniper" im sure the RNG and DRK and possibly sam/war forums would have been in an uproar! But instead, these are more flavors of non DD professions.

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Outside of procs I don't see people all to picky about DDs, normally it seems to come down to what your better as and what you have geared best, Berserker wouldn't really take DRK, SAM, or WAR down much unless everyone had it geared better and knew how to play the job well enough for it to be more effective. Mages are not the same, we all have many advantages and fields we are better in, except RDM, we get enhancing that WHM does, enfeebling that BLM & WHM or a SCH/RDM can do, we get worse healing than SCH, worse nukes than SCH or BLM, no native divine, and a single set of tiered dark spells.

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Lets look at the major facts so far, in response to geomancer, we still likely will have mp longevity, actual cure power to some degree, fastcast, effective defensive buffs, great damage mitigation tools and gear, as well as matching their nuke power, and having likely still more potent enfeebles. To get any/all of those they will require subbing us just as sch does, but sch hasnt totally replaced us either. Its just the fearful masses jumping to conclusions that because they are doing one thing, they cant possibly have any thoughts about working on something else ever.

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MP longevity hasn't been needed for some time, unless it comes back, this matters nothing.
Cures, the WHMs do cures, when was the last time RDM was an excepted healer? You take SCH before RDM in that case.
Fast Cast is cool, except SCH has little reason to not /RDM, and both WHM & BLM have either merits for -cast time of their respective types of spells, or gear for the same thing while RDM's main -cast time gear is~ enfeebling magic, which takes half a second to cast anyways!
Damage should not be taken if your a mage, if you are taking damage, its probably a NM, NMs, do enough Phalanx matters very, very, little, and thats our real protection you speak of I take it in defense, gear wise, many jobs can easily stack PDT gear.
Subbing RDM is required for as long as we don't see its gear, if it has AF sets that everything else does (which is how they made it sound) it will likely have -cast time gear built into its EmpAF set to cater with mage tradition in this case.
SCH has actually killed RDM mage wise. MP longevity=Sublimation, Magic acc gear+Strat=Enfeebling magic skill being high, higher black magic tiers, strats to boost effects of spells by 1.5 times or more. they even get heightened skill levels when in the correct arts so that gimps can use it as well/almost as well as people who actually skilled them up. I don't feel the need to go on, SCH/RDM, does beat RDM in basically every way when it comes to pure maging.
It has nothing to do with me being part of the "fearful masses" I look at the past, I look at the future, and I look at what SE is telling me, and when I add this all together it translates into "We looked at many suggestions on how to fix or help some jobs, however, rather than fixing or assisting these jobs, we thought it would be best to make 2 new jobs with these ideas, helping reason to buy our new expansion, return to the game, or forgive us for our past mistakes."

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This COULD be the death of rdm, maybe. But as we are still more flexible, even if rdm isnt wanted in EVERY DAMN EVENT like it was at 75, well, tough, not every job was wanted in every event then, ill take being accepted as a space filler or used for select events. Its been said, who doesnt have atleast 2 99 jobs these days?

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When you cant go into an event and know what your actually going to be doing in it, RDM's flexibility will matter, when you need a healer, you will bring a healer, when you need a nuker, you will bring a nuker, there is almost never a reason to bring someone who can do both but worse, especially RDM over SCH when SCH does both better anyways.
I don't mind not being wanted in EVERY event, I don't like being wanted in NO event as more than anything but a filler! Having more than a single job at 99 matters nothing, having more than a single job geared to the teeth, means nothing, no job should be left behind without a reason as RDM has.

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Main problem here is people blowing things way the hell out of proportion! "Abyssea is over!" "Voidwatch is over!" "Dynamis is dead!" Well hate to break it to you all, but just because its not the new hot button making everyone wet their pants doesnt mean people arent still flocking to these and older events! Sorry if i dont shead a tear and feel left out of legion as rdm, but really if GEO or RNF are any more popular for these older, still vastly popular events, then i suppose we have a problem, but they already said they are designed to not be involved with them so i dont see a problem.

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Again, if I was useful in these events I would be happy, lets look at them vs other jobs.
Abyssea:This world is ruled by procs, RDM has few blue procs, few red procs (dagger being the only ones I think) and only 2 of any magic proc at most unless you count a subjob. WAR has most red procs, NIN can cover whatever WAR cant, and NIN/WAR can even cover the same amount as a WAR can. MNK has 14/15 blue procs for a certain time frame, the person healing him probably has the last 1 of those 15 as well. WHM, BLM/BRD, BLU, THF/NIN, this covers all magic procs in a seal party, and treasure hunter. RDM is shown to be in none of these setups for procs, and has minimal support for any of these.
Voidwatch:RDM again, has few procs, enfeebling procs unique to the job have just been removed. Has minimal DD capabilities, has minimal need in general. BRD COR DDs BLMx2~3 BLUx1~2 NIN WHMx2, this is the gist of a VW party setup, RDM gets to be a filler for the BLM who just doesn't want to come, thats where it falls into this lineup most the time at best.
Dynamis:RDM has no Treasure Hunter and has lower damage output than other jobs, the end. THF can solo Dyna, BST can dominate Dyna, PUP can do Dyna WS mobs with their puppet procing for them, DNC can do Dyna with a locked subjob, RDM can... do subpar? Are you talking about other than farming? Ok, SMN, BRD, DDs, this is ADL setup, and thats about all there is to Dyna people do, so yeah, no use here either.

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So SE, go ahead and make an event that Caters to GEO and RNF, because we can tell now, unless these jobs are truely, truely, truely broken, there is little chance it will put us out of a job. Dnc didnt, blu didnt, sch didnt. Hell whm only just recently took their job back.

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DNC put in a new soloer, not nearly as effective as RDM however, so no, it didn't. BLU, does more damage with swords, does more damage with magic that casts as fast as we cast Dia, and has healing spells on par with our healing spells, they fall short in MP longevity, this job only losses in a single place, MP! SCH, I explained above, not saying it again...

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There is a gigantic difference between "reading between the lines" and "Jumping the gun" or "Flying off the handle" or just plain over-reacting to this. Maybe the japanese players have capped all jobs to 99 and are demanding something else to level for all we know.

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Yes there are differences, and funny enough, I know this, and do none of these except perhaps jump the gun. I sat down, calm minded, went over the info I was given, and got angry because after adding the facts together I was given, I saw that this was bad for my job. If Japanese players leveled all jobs to 99, that just means, they did what alot of people already have on this game. I wouldn't mind having new jobs, I just wish they would fix the problems they have with the current ones 1st, and namely not take away ideas that could help to fix these problems.

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I am not worried, threatened, or upset at this news and look forward to the new jobs, zones, and possibility of these being useful for rdm/rng or rdm/geo play.

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I am worried, new jobs are nice, but where do they fall? I see 2 more jobs to add to the other 19 that I am currently up against when an event comes out and it is chosen who is worth having, RDM is currently not very worth having, having a 1/22 chance makes me feel worse than my current 1/20 chance.

I like the idea of going to these new zones but I am faced with many problems, I'm RDM, group based things don't work for me well right now, unless this changes I will be alone out there. These new items to remove things in the way, build outposts and whatnot, will this only happen once? If so, partys will make this boring to me, because I will never really experience this. If it has to be done again, will it take up inventory space? My RDM already has alot of gear, I will be unable to really hold much of anything outside of my gear and a few items for this content if I'm alone.

I'm not upset about the news, I'm happy about it because it means this game will not die soon, most people don't make expansions to kill off a game shortly after, not to mention new interface and whatnot for the PC. And I'm excited to try new combos with the new jobs as subjobs, it will bring something interesting. But as much as I like this all, I still see problems with it as well. RDM dying or not is a past matter, the job is currently in a very poor state, this simply shows they have been putting alot of time into these new jobs, and ideas that were given for RDM even, it is driving people to lose hope RDM might change.



I'm sorry for such a long post, I'm done speaking my opinion.

I've finally thought of the right disturbing metaphor for this situation!

Let's say a couple starts with one child. They neither love nor hate this child, they mostly ignore him and leave him to starve in a large cardboard box which slowly fills with his own filth.

Later, the couple has another child. Just a baby, right now. Another boy. Right now, they're feeding that child and showing it love. They must have loved the first child once.

Stuff happens and the first child dies of dehydration.

The second child has nothing to do with the first child's death. The first child's neglect is not a result of the second child's care. However, seeing that tiny thing all wrapped up and happy definitely hurts the first child on an emotional level. As the first child collapses into a cold and watery puddle of his own feces, I wouldn't be surprised if he gurgles, "I hope I get to haunt that little monster."

On a purely logical level, I think a lot of people know that all three jobs could live happily together like three hermaphroditic polygamists in kinda-gross union if all three jobs end up actually filling needed roles and being fun to play and not sucking horribly and stuff.

On a more emotional level, that might not matter. Stuff sucks for Red Mage right now and both new jobs seem vaguely similar to Red Mage on paper. That makes the suck, well, feel suckier. Basic suckology!

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Originally Posted by Llana_Virren

Sadly it's not really relevant to the concern amongst RDMs (and former-RDMs):

--The comment was that the sphere/aura enfeebles would take their own "spot" was to answer the question of "what if it's a Paralyze proc and there's a paralyze aura in effect." As of right now, enfeebles are only relevant for procs, and WHM and BLM can both land them for proc, a RDM is not needed. RDM gains nothing from this statement.

--Slow I and II, Paralyze I and II and so forth do not stalk, so this comment is fluff at best. (As an aside, I frequently asked WARs to tomahawk or DRGs to Angon when I used Dia II/III because they did stack. But that's neither here nor there).

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-if enfeebling monster is useless geo doesn't take anything from RDM (you dont need rdm either geo exist or not)
-slow I & II doesnt stack with each other but thet stack with elegy, RDM debuff will stack with geo debuff (SE said they don't take same slot)
-we don't know how many aura a geo can put. RDM can stick all their debuff (minus element overwrite)

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--The issue is that enspells were unique to RDM, not that they were game-breaking. The fact that only RDM had access to them made them a defining trait of RDM. You might want to figure out what "defining" means.

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enspells have never been unique to RDM
-http://wiki.ffxiclopedia.org/wiki/Rolling_Thunder (not worth using but it exist)
-sch/rdm can aoe enspells

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--Increasing the level cap took the uniqueness of Refresh and Convert away from RDM. SCH took away the usefulness of RDM capped Enhancing. while also blocking Refresh and Haste from working with Accession. Despite all of these, players continued to hope that with upcoming enhancements to the Merit Categories and spell effects that RDM might get a saving grace. /cut/.

Good or bad, effective or useless, prior to the level-cap increase, RDM was viable for, amongst other things, Enfeebliing (Dia III, Dispel), Enhancing (Refresh, anyone?) and Endurance (Refresh+Convert). This somewhat gave RDM relevance despite not having the higher tier magic spells of either White or Black schools of Magic.

--The melee aspect of RDM was already hindered due to the undeserved fear that everyone would become Avesta, and has been untouched since the dawn of time.

--The level cap, and subsequent enhancements made for WHM and BLM increased the gap between the "pure mages" and hybrid class, and by making Convert and Refresh sub-able reduced RDM to a "I wear it for looks" Chapeau class.

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not related with new jobs being added

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Instead, the recommendations for enhancements to RDM were included in the development of two additional jobs

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your recomandation are so balanced that SE had to create TWO jobs to implement them.

hybrid can' be strong in every domain, you want them to be strong in every domain, it won't happen deal with it

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When a team of developers think think that creating two new jobs from "scratch" (read as: copy from existing jobs with some tweaks) is more important than fixing an irrelevent job, you will understand the genuine disappointment/sense of betrayal being echoed by the forsaken RDM masses.

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yes because GEO and RUF will be available tomorrow!
hmm? no! they will be in 6-18 month with several job adjustment coming before

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Originally Posted by Demon6324236

Well Ill reply as if that post were here to show where its right or wrong in my opinion.

Enfeebling from 2 jobs stacking does not effect the fact that enfeebling in itself is not being fixed for RDM, its being fixed for all jobs, everything will land enfeebling, so RDM will still have little advantage.

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Originally Posted by Okipuit

Hey everyone,

I have some interesting news from development regarding enfeebling magic and resistance adjustments:
A new systemfor resistance will be implemented. If we do not adjust this first, even if we were to add new or stronger enfeebling spells, the results would be minimal against enemies with high resistance. By adjusting the current resistance system, existing enfeebling spells will become more efficient. Moving forward, our next set of current and/or new spell plans will be based on the results of the resistance system revamp.

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ITT: a new system of resistance = everybody will land enfeebling @ full potency

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Originally Posted by hiko

-slow I & II doesnt stack with each other but thet stack with elegy, RDM debuff will stack with geo debuff (SE said they don't take same slot)

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What makes RDM more desired than a SCH/RDM when casting slow? We can both only land 1 spell, RDM might be a little more potent but this makes little difference, chances of sticking are about the same. When presented this choice, it might not seem like a big enough difference to take RDM for the small bit of enfeebling. Now, imagine Slow I & II could stack, this would make RDM worth looking into, a single job stacking these would be amazing, but this isn't what were talking about. SE said, GEO can stack enfeebling, with other enfeebling, this means, RDM, still is just as useful as a SCH/RDM when it comes to slow, or anything like slow that it can duplicate.

The fact GEO enfeebling can stack with ours is cool and all but what does this mean for RDM? Nothing at all, RDM enfeebles do not stack on 1 another, if you could stack Slow I & II, RDM would be brought to do it, but sadly, this isn't the case I'm afraid.

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ITT: a new system of resistance = everybody will land enfeebling

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Let me explain yet again, I am going by the info, I heard, when I watched the Vanafest stream. They said enfeebling magic was being looked into and they were changing it, it was even being looked into that they would completely remove the ability to resist it, this makes no difference in the end anyways. Again I will say this as well, if enfeebling is easier to stick as one job, chances are, every job with enfeebling skill, will have an easier time. Not helping only RDM with this, but everything that is keeping RDM from actually joining events to cast enfeebling as well.

To help RDM they would have to make an update that only, or mainly, effects RDM, this is why I have said before they need to do what they did with Healing Magic, and make skill a very large factor in how this works, if enfeebling skill played a large role, then the job with the highest skill in it, would play an equally large role when using it.

if they remove resist enffebling skill become useless
they wont make a skill totaly useless

=> add enfeebling skill into potency formula

I know SE used to do some stupid stuff but that a very easy/efficient way to make skill usefull

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Originally Posted by hiko

if they remove resist enffebling skill become useless
they wont make a skill totaly useless

=> add enfeebling skill into potency formula

I know SE used to do some stupid stuff but that a very easy/efficient way to make skill usefull

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I said only what I heard them say, I agree its stupid, and I know how easy it is to fix it. As for "used to do some stupid stuff" this makes it sound like they don't do stupid things anymore... Yeah~... Either way, the changes they make to enfeebling magic has little chance that it will change things in a way that mainly or only benefits RDM.

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Originally Posted by hiko

enspells have never been unique to RDM
-sch/rdm can aoe enspells

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to be fair, that pissed us all off THEN to... or me anyway <.<. rolling thunder is terrible enough to stay under the radar.

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Originally Posted by SpankWustler

I've finally thought of the right disturbing metaphor for this situation!

Let's say a couple starts with one child. They neither love nor hate this child, they mostly ignore him and leave him to starve in a large cardboard box which slowly fills with his own filth.

Later, the couple has another child. Just a baby, right now. Another boy. Right now, they're feeding that child and showing it love. They must have loved the first child once.

Stuff happens and the first child dies of dehydration.

The second child has nothing to do with the first child's death. The first child's neglect is not a result of the second child's care. However, seeing that tiny thing all wrapped up and happy definitely hurts the first child on an emotional level. As the first child collapses into a cold and watery puddle of his own feces, I wouldn't be surprised if he gurgles, "I hope I get to haunt that little monster."

On a purely logical level, I think a lot of people know that all three jobs could live happily together like three hermaphroditic polygamists in kinda-gross union if all three jobs end up actually filling needed roles and being fun to play and not sucking horribly and stuff.

On a more emotional level, that might not matter. Stuff sucks for Red Mage right now and both new jobs seem vaguely similar to Red Mage on paper. That makes the suck, well, feel suckier. Basic suckology!

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well this is practically science, so far be it for me to digress... but as a melee rdm i feel like i was actually allowed to GROW UP in the shitbox, subsisting on buckets of raw fish heads for years. until mommy and daddy finally look upon me, only to kick me in my recently dropped balls >.>



all that being said, i'm actually curious to play rune fencer... except that it's a tank.

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Originally Posted by Doombringer

well this is practically science, so far be it for me to digress... but as a melee rdm i feel like i was actually allowed to GROW UP in the shitbox, subsisting on buckets of raw fish heads for years. until mommy and daddy finally look upon me, only to kick me in my recently dropped balls >.>

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This would explain why Temper was okay enough for what it was meant to do, compared to significantly more horrid stuff like Scarlet Delirium or Run Wild added during the same period.

Temper was added to give hope to Red Mages who want to hit things with their things. To give them hope because it is impossible to take away something you have never given.

Or, to keep with the really gross metaphors, it was added because even the Development Bros know nothing hurts more than a critical hit to the protuberance.

Im wondering what exactly ppl expected when they all started complaining about wanting new jobs. With 20 jobs out their already, it would be nearly impossible to create another new job that doesnt step on someones toes heavily.

Exactly Godofgods, there was nearly no way for them to do it in a way to make it completely unique.

As for the "Dropping resistance entirely" you know how easily square puts their foot in their mouth, and going by all the other talk about it they were doing, im pretty sure its more akin to their plans to "Make it nigh-impossible for a monster to be totally immune to enfeebling effects, except situations where elemental resistances take priority (such as avatars)" not making every spell acting like dia. As for making GEO+SCH/WHM/BLM/ECT nearly as effective at double stacking enfeebles, i call hogwash on this. Situations where you may want to do this that id imagine would be similar to 2hour zergs, where you are fighting big big things that you dont want to act as much. In which situation, then you should certainly take a RDM because Saboteur SlowII or ParaII + aura slow/para will certainly be much more effective. But this is all a moot point because we were never taken to anything solely to enfeeble things, and i doubt we ever will be taken for just enfeebling.

Now looking to old events, how many times do you see sch be taken en-masse to voidwatch as a spacefiller? On my server atleast i usually see 2-3 rdms over 2-3 scholars for voidwatch. For dynamis, sure, thf can kill faster solo, blu can do more damage, bst is no question the king of dynamis, and ADL is just huge. But here we have an event where mp efficiency is more important for these lowman runs for coin farms, a event where temps arent being dropped every ten seconds, and while i tend to go NIN/DNC when solo, or occasionally MNK/DNC, i have gone RDM and gotten pretty close to my NIN's kill rate output. And what blu doesnt love some free Refresh II? Every time ive gone blu/dnc, even using 30-50 mp spells, with refresh idle gear, i find my stamina somewhat lacking at times.

For Limbus lowman, same deal, no instantly replenished mp every minute so this is useful on a lowman setup. Works well in old nyzul, for many of the same reasons. Einherjar i regularly go melee for rdm and a few times have been tanking the bosses for wings 2/3 over other jobs like mnks and such. No im not listing parses, the self-satisfaction i get from doing it makes me content enough. Rdm is great for lowman as it stands, and i have been asked to come it to atleast 3 events since monday. And this is with the leader knowing i have MNK/WHM/BLM/RDM/DRK/BRD/RNG/SMN/NIN/BLU/SCH all 99 with mostly +2 gear and other goodies for each.

Would i take and like more for rdm across the board? You better believe it, but i still cant see two new jobs being the straw that broke the cammel's back. If anything i see them promoting bring rdm more often. But neither of us are gonna convince eachother otherwise. But these jobs dont scare me, enrage me, or upset me. They are no threat to my rdm life and hell theres still rdms running around doing amazing things in and out of parties, it just means less cause nobody is watching it being done and throwing a hissyfit.

We will have agree to dissagree but i seriously cant see an entire expansion being added without any jobs being added, and i dont see an expansion as being evidence that they are choosing to ignore rdm specifically. Theres a lot of jobs that dont get tons of attention as of late and i dont feel rdm is a special case of this.

I'm happy about the new job's and the fact that there be using a lot of the same idea's that we have been talking about on the RDM forum's since most of us got here.

As for RDM, well....... IDK. It is what it is I guess.

Greetings everyone! I have finally returned from Japan and somehow managed to avert jet lag this time (I hope...).

As far as party support goes for geomancer, you can imagine it to be somewhat like the roles for bard and corsair. We would like players to utilize geomancy in conjunction with currently existing spells/songs/roles so that each effect supports the party more and more.

Also, there are some players who are concerned that by having enfeebles that are not resisted, red mage and other enfeebling magic will be useless moving forward. This is by no means the case since the development team is planning to make geomancy and currently existing enfeebling spells stackable. Instead of worrying about which one to use, players are encouraged to use them together to create a more powerful effect.

Additionally, in exchange for geomancers possessing an advantageous field that cannot be resisted, the effects themselves will be weaker than the effects of enfeebling spells from red mages and other jobs.

Welcome back Ca-ma-te (and Bayohne!) :)

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Originally Posted by Camate

Also, there are some players who are concerned that by having enfeebles that are not resisted, red mage and other enfeebling magic will be useless moving forward. This is by no means the case since the development team is planning to make geomancy and currently existing enfeebling spells stackable. Instead of worrying about which one to use, players are encouraged to use them together to create a more powerful effect.

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Pining Nocturne says hello.

The more you know~

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Originally Posted by Camate

Greetings everyone! I have finally returned from Japan and somehow managed to avert jet lag this time (I hope...).

As far as party support goes for geomancer, you can imagine it to be somewhat like the roles for bard and corsair. We would like players to utilize geomancy in conjunction with currently existing spells/songs/roles so that each effect supports the party more and more.

Also, there are some players who are concerned that by having enfeebles that are not resisted, red mage and other enfeebling magic will be useless moving forward. This is by no means the case since the development team is planning to make geomancy and currently existing enfeebling spells stackable. Instead of worrying about which one to use, players are encouraged to use them together to create a more powerful effect.

Additionally, in exchange for geomancers possessing an advantageous field that cannot be resisted, the effects themselves will be weaker than the effects of enfeebling spells from red mages and other jobs.

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The main problem is that currently Red Mage is a waste of a party slot when enfeebles are either 100% resisted, spotty to land at best, or even easy to land. Why have a job that really cannot contribute anything of value beyond slightly more powerful enfeebles than jobs that are actually useful for fights? Fully merited Slow II with capped dMND is 39% slow (35% for 1 merit) compared to Slow I with capped dMND at 29%. (Especially when paired with 50% slow from Carnage Elegy.) Dia III is 15% defense down compared to Dia II with 10% defense down. Paralyze II can't even be compared to Paralyze I because they are so random. Blind II is... a waste of merits. None of these are worth another DD or BLM. Or a Geo when it comes out because they will be able to land their enfeebles that stack with the enfeebles that a WHM, BLM, or SCH can cast that are only slightly less potent than what a RDM can cast.

If the Development team wants Red Mage to be not in the trash pile, they are going to have to give Red Mage spells that are useful for how the game is played now- mainly enfeebles that deal with the horrendous TP moves that mobs hand out like beads at Mardi Gras. Enfeebles that reduce the power of TP moves, negate Auto Regain, lower mob Store TP, Amnesia, Paralyze-type effect for TP moves, Plague, removes additional effects (looking at you death and doom) from TP moves, etc. This would be a very good way to make Red Mage a viable and wanted job again, filling a unique niche that no other job fills.

(I fully expect all of these ideas to be added to Rune Knight.)

hope....

but was is the most party form?
tank(mnk,nin,war),dds,1-2 buffer(cor and brd/whm, maybe later geo) and 1 whm or sch

i dont see the space for a rdm more, that have start with haste,cure4 from bard-
and when geo can buff and stack geospell and enfeebling and heal from sub- for what you need rdm?

is here rly 1 partyldr who can 100% say he want a rdm in party for a cor,brd or dd?

But bk to my startpost.
Is nice to see any good suggestion from rdm com. become other or new jobs....
-a ja for single spells turn in aeo spell > sch, blu
-a spere effect spell > geo
-a spell strength your off. > sounds like faith and might> rnf
- and...

How about some new unique enfeebles you arent going to be giving to other jobs, so your going to give paralyze and slow to geomancer, what does that leave us with blind and addle? yippee, there are dozens of ideas strewn across the red mage forums how about you use some of that feedback you asked for and give the player what they want!