Ninja Elemental Ninjtsu Damage become broken recently?

A few weeks ago I was doing 10K+ NIN nukes on a darkness. I come back today and try again and I'm doing 7K... this time my atmas are BETTER than when I did 10K.

Weeks ago: Beyond, Hell's Guardian, Minikin Monstrosity (or maybe it was Baying Moon?)

Today: Beyond, Hell's Guardian, Ultimate (recently acquired)

Did the last version update seriously cripple ninjutsu damage THAT badly? Yes, I'm using futae and innin. My gear is jacked out in INT and MAB.

Gear: MAB+45, INT+43, Iga Tekko+2

Mob: Frigatebird

SC: Darkness

Job: NIN99/RDM49

Welp, I just swapped out Ultimate for Minikin Monstrosity and an Innin/Futae Hyoton: San jumped drastically to 5.2K compared to 3.5K (no magic burst).

Edit: did some more testing.

Ultimate/Beyond/Minikin did the same damage as
Hell's/Beyond/Minikin

HOWEVER

Ultimate/Hell's/Beyond did FAR worse.

Seems NIN nuking *absolutely* requires INT.

Edit 2: Prinnysmash on Lakshmi has dome some math for me based on ninjutsu San base damage modifier and has found that INT is nearly a 2:1 damage ratio over MAB on NIN. Very interesting... So I'd need 80MAB to match 40INT basically. No wonder I was losing so much damage and didn't understand why. I'm sure Prinny could elaborate the math better if he posted it here.

Edit 3: I will roll with Ultimate/Kirin/minikin tonight and post my findings.

Semi-Confirmed.

Kirin/Minikin/Beyond is the a very good setup for NIN nuking.

Hyoton: San did 5757 with futae/innin, no magic burst. I don't even have relic+2 head yet, which will increase my damage more than 25%, supposedly. I am one-shotting mobs in Abyssea-Misareaux. 3225 without futae.

Edit: Just got Koga Hatsuburi +2. Will post those numbers.

Edit 2: Got the +2 and swapped Kirin for Ultimate... 6297/6398/6468 (seems to be my cap atm). Pretty happy with the results. Now if I could just find a cooperative SAM to help with darkness...

http://i47.tinypic.com/16kdef8.jpg

Happy balance between INT/MAB for NIN, final atma pick:
- Ultimate/Beyond/Minikin

INT: 91+58 (base + gear, not counting atma or cruor buffs (91+195 if I had atma/cruor buffs on)
MAB: 24 (gear)
Ninjutsu damage bonus +60% (+10% Iga Tekko+2, +30% Innin, +20%[?] Futae)
INT merits: 5
Ninjutsu Skill: 412 +16(merits)--have 5 to go to cap; seems to increase damage a noticeably the more it goes up.

Hey there! would you be kind enough to post your gear setup for this? I'm in the process of making 2 mab katanas, I have my koga hatsuburi +2 complete on the augment as well and seeing the numbers you do has me very much interested in building for a nuke build. Thanks in advance!

Sure, I'll take some time after work tomorrow to put my gear swap lists for you. Btw, I did see a few 7k+ recently. 7707 my highest on capped Sandsweepers. This wasn't from a magic burst.

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Originally Posted by JiltedValkyrie

Sure, I'll take some time after work tomorrow to put my gear swap lists for you. Btw, I did see a few 7k+ recently. 7707 my highest on capped Sandsweepers. This wasn't from a magic burst.

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Thank you :D

Main: Arisui (INT+11, MAB+11)
Sub: Arisui (INT+11, MAB+11)
Range: N/A
Ammo: Snow Satchet (INT+2)

Head: Koga Hatsuburi +2 (Enhances Ninjutsu Damage)
Neck: Stoicheion Medal (MACC+2, MAB+8)
Ear1: Snow Pearl (INT+3)
Ear2: Hecate's Earring (MAB+6, Magic Crit Rate +3%)

Body (Pre-casting): Mirke Wardecors (MAB+4, Fast Cast +5)
Body (Before ninjutsu finishes casting): Kirin's Osode (INT+10)
Hands: Iga Tekko +2 (Increases elemental ninjutsu damage, enhances Futae effect)
Ring 1: Diamond Ring (INT+4, INT+3[augment])
Ring 2 (no burst): Diamond Ring (INT+4, INT+1[augment]) < This piece should be upgraded
Ring 2 (for burst): Mujin Band (Bonus damage added to magic burst [5%])

Back: Mujin Mantle (Ninjutsu recast delay -1) < Back there isn't much to choose from, but there are INT pieces to upgrade to
Waist: Sanctuary Obi (INT+5, spell interruption down 8%)
Legs: Sangoma Lappas (INT+6)
Feet: River Gaiters (INT+4)

There are places I could add MAB/INT to max my balance out. If you can, try to go for INT over MAB. General rule of thumb is 1INT = 2MAB for ninja. So that Osode is ~MAB+20 for us according to my linkshell mate. However, there is a balance for MAB/INT, and I think mine's alright and that mostly applies to atma.

Don't bother with HQ staves. Two MAB katanas win out in every single possible scenario over them because our spells have low mods. For me this gap is hundreds to almost a thousand damage difference depending.

I have also maxed out INT with 12 merits (98 base) since last post.

FYI: For merits, put 5/5 in tier 1 on Hyoton: San and 5/5 into tier2 on Hyoton. San, also. This makes a major difference.

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FYI: For merits, put 5/5 in tier 1 on Hyoton: San and 5/5 into tier2 on Hyoton. San, also. This makes a major difference.

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5/5 hyoton effect and 5/5 hyoton:san? Also is there a particular reason for ice over the other elements? ( I'm guessing for Atma of the Beyond ) Thanks again for the input :D

Yeah, in that case, probably due to Atma of the Beyond indeed.

It's also the one that most players pretty much always merited fully even before Abyssea due to I can't remember why, heh.

Used lots on Birds? xd

Yes and no. Ice is a pretty common weakness for mobs. It's great against a lot of mobs. And yeah, Beyond really is important for it. Not only 30 MAB, but pretty much another 30 on ice. Remember, there is a happy balance between INT and MAB. Also, if you want to do the most damage in one big number, Hyoton is the way to go, especially where magic bursts are concerned. What's the big whale mob in VW? I hear NIN nuker would make a great DD/tank on that guy, but I don't really do VW myself.

Nice, thank you for being thorough :D I'm going to try it out!!!

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Originally Posted by Lyrminas

Nice, thank you for being thorough :D I'm going to try it out!!!

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Great, let me know what your numbers are like! Don't forget to merit INT fully, as it makes a big difference.

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Originally Posted by JiltedValkyrie

What's the big whale mob in VW?

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Bismarck the Pteraketos

funny how all this started with me talking to you lightly about how hard nins can nuke in abysea yuu. did you ever test how Yagentoshiro stacked up against the matt katana?

also instead of a snow pearl try a strophadic earring (int+3 matt+4)

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Originally Posted by Metaking

funny how all this started with me talking to you lightly about how hard nins can nuke in abysea yuu. did you ever test how Yagentoshiro stacked up against the matt katana?

also instead of a snow pearl try a strophadic earring (int+3 matt+4)

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Sounds good. I'm on a hiatus right now from XI until September. I'll be going on business trips and vacation.

You guys are aware that the damage calculations for ninjutsu are known right? You can just do a bit of math and find out whats better and how much damage XXXX item will do, you dont have to go make/buy/waste time/waste gil on anything, you can just plug some numbers into a calculator and find out whats best, then go get that.