Fix NM hate

Idea: once an NM has been claimed, noone outside the alliance can get hate on it. If the alliance wipes, the NM returns to spawn point or it's original roaming territory. Force spawn NMs depop, timed/lottery spawns regen to full AND reach original territory before another person can claim. In this way, if someone reraises and reengages before depop/100% they can continue to work on their NM, and noone outside alliance can fight it without doing 100% of the work to beat it.

Noone should ever be able to just swoop in and finish off anything for credit without doing the work, or being a member of the group that did.

i can agree and disagree witht his one group wiped and my group claimed but because we werent dill holes when they got up we added them and let them get their items then they helped us so their pop wasnt lost

Or just don't fight anything you cannot kill.

If they did that you could put all your healers outside of the alliance and they'd never get hate.

or, yknow, put /blockaid on and don't let your tanks die.

This does need some fixing, i seen mobs go yellow after one person dies and people try to steal it

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Originally Posted by Rambus

This does need some fixing, i seen mobs go yellow after one person dies and people try to steal it

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I solo most of the time but i don't get why people can't just work together. If you are doing seals and waiting for one group to wipe then try to snatch it you morons. Help them or ask do they need help then pop your NM and they can help you you prolly have all you need for proc. Dam just help each other don't be a lingering leech. I had party stand there and watch me solo Tablilla hoping i die

Why are you asking for people to work together if they've come with a party for all yellow triggers. They obviously don't need you and you'll be the one leeching. Add to the fact your specific example is also a item dropper for the Ironclad in that zone which has half of the KI to pop rani. With surplus time I would sit there either waiting for your slow kill or wipe and could not care about your inefficient farming of seals. Just cause you are soloing does not mean anyone would need to be inclined to team up and help you out. I'll put an addendum to my above post, Don't fight things you cannot kill. And within abyssea without proper triggers.

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Originally Posted by Loir

Why are you asking for people to work together if they've come with a party for all yellow triggers. They obviously don't need you and you'll be the one leeching. Add to the fact your specific example is also a item dropper for the Ironclad in that zone which has half of the KI to pop rani. With surplus time I would sit there either waiting for your slow kill or wipe and could not care about your inefficient farming of seals. Just cause you are soloing does not mean anyone would need to be inclined to team up and help you out. I'll put an addendum to my above post, Don't fight things you cannot kill. And within abyssea without proper triggers.

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You missed the point of my post i didnt need help killing it. i killed it for all my seals NP the point of my post was people just linger in any situation whether its a soloer or party that may wipe just waiting to be a vulture when im waiting on a NM i always offer to help instead of grab someone else's wipe in many a situaion a team did wipe my team claimed the mob added the orig poppers and gave them their stuff. its just like offering a dead person a raise when u run across them not run over them


no need to be a vulturous douche in the game
vulturous is a new word i just made

well that is the main issue with this game now, the good people leave the game and we get left with the douchebags that you can't trust to be half decent

umm /blockaid and if your group can't kill it, no reason for the mob to go to waste.

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Originally Posted by Ezikiel

I solo most of the time but i don't get why people can't just work together. If you are doing seals and waiting for one group to wipe then try to snatch it you morons. Help them or ask do they need help then pop your NM and they can help you you prolly have all you need for proc. Dam just help each other don't be a lingering leech. I had party stand there and watch me solo Tablilla hoping i die

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I did not say whipe i said one person "i/e the tank".

killing 1 or 2 people out of 12 should not make a mob go yellow

I don't see any reason that if a full wipe happens you shouldn't be able to grab a monster. If the person really wants to be nice they can always give you the drops but if you wiped to the mob then they aren't stealing it. If you can't kill the monster or even are just unlucky fully wiping you shouldn't have sour grapes about some one killing the NM. Also they do some what have this with rage. Instead asking for this you should be asking for instanced content.

My issue is that of NMs that use charm on the tanks and then goes white even though other members of the alliance still have hate and are still killing the NM. For instance we were killing cirien-croin for lanterns and a not so nice group was also in the zone doing the same thing. They literally stood on top of us while we killed it and tried hard to spam claim when it used charm because it would go momentarily white. We eventually had one of our tanks stand out of range for the lower 50% of it's hp to avoid this problem. It sucked for everyone b/c we slowed our killspeed immensely to avoid having this other group steal our NM. Yes white is fair game but a mob shouldn't go white until everyone on its hatelist is dead or out of range.

Yah but hosh you forgot we got to kill their LS leader when they popped their next CC, least a little joy out of that.

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Originally Posted by Rambus

This does need some fixing, i seen mobs go yellow after one person dies and people try to steal it

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The mob goes yellow if the person to last take an action on it is killed, warped out of the zone, or disengages.

As for wanting nobody outside of your own alliance to be able to get hate on the mob, this is what /blockaid on is for, although this has already been pointed out.

If you can't keep a mob claimed and it is an ongoing issue for you, maybe you should revise your strategy for the fight.

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Originally Posted by Rie

The mob goes yellow if the person to last take an action on it is killed, warped out of the zone, or disengages.

As for wanting nobody outside of your own alliance to be able to get hate on the mob, this is what /blockaid on is for, although this has already been pointed out.

If you can't keep a mob claimed and it is an ongoing issue for you, maybe you should revise your strategy for the fight.

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I disagree I blame programing. like :

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Originally Posted by Hoshi

My issue is that of NMs that use charm on the tanks and then goes white even though other members of the alliance still have hate and are still killing the NM. For instance we were killing cirien-croin for lanterns and a not so nice group was also in the zone doing the same thing. They literally stood on top of us while we killed it and tried hard to spam claim when it used charm because it would go momentarily white. We eventually had one of our tanks stand out of range for the lower 50% of it's hp to avoid this problem. It sucked for everyone b/c we slowed our killspeed immensely to avoid having this other group steal our NM. Yes white is fair game but a mob shouldn't go white until everyone on its hatelist is dead or out of range.

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There is NO REASON people should be allowed to take mobs if it is not a full whipe.

If one person dies, and it goes yellow and a different group takes it, or people take mobs because of charm, that is mob stealing. SE should program better to prevent that, since people can't handle it on their own. That or let GMs take action on it.

The point I'm trying to make is you should not benefit from my work, and vice-versa. And it is possible that we ARE still fighting the mob, just waiting for it to move far enough to prevent a mass 1-shot on the reraise. I've been with a group that wiped at 18% to Yaanei. We were pet burning it and only needed it to move out of aggro range of the summoners and my beast; even with us weak they could have finished the job. But no, the asshats that stood by to watch the wipe just claimed it and killed while we were reraising, this takes my beast about 8 seconds, the summoners need a bit more time to cast-maybe 15 seconds all told.

Had Yaanei returned to his original haunts at 100% and they claimed because we failed to reengage I would have no problem. Instead, I've burned 2 stones, 5 jugs and time I could have been doing something else. Actually, I burned 3 stones, NM wasn't up when we enterred and we had a nice long wait. The only consolation was that the group that claimed was unable to proc !!, and 7 of them died in the process; lord knows we weren't going to make any effort to heal/raise them!

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Originally Posted by Loir

Or just don't fight anything you cannot kill.

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The thread should have ended w/ this post.

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Originally Posted by Rambus

There is NO REASON people should be allowed to take mobs if it is not a full whipe.

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Sure there is. If we're in Abyssea and you're taking 45 minutes while wiping to Itzpapalotl or the like, if it gets to the point where the monster is idle/has a one or two people kiting it with 10 dead on the floor, I'm going to finish it off so my group can get done and not waste time.

As others have rightly pointed out - don't engage what you cannot kill. If this is a recurring problem enough for you to post it here - you should revise your strategies.

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Originally Posted by Dazusu

Sure there is. If we're in Abyssea and you're taking 45 minutes while wiping to Itzpapalotl or the like, if it gets to the point where the monster is idle/has a one or two people kiting it with 10 dead on the floor, I'm going to finish it off so my group can get done and not waste time.

As others have rightly pointed out - don't engage what you cannot kill. If this is a recurring problem enough for you to post it here - you should revise your strategies.

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If we are kiting it that is because we feel we CAN kill it. Masochism would be the only other motivation. My group doesn't stand by to watch another group fight a mob in hopes of stealing it, we do it so we can get a TOD to set our next attempt. We DO let it go, unless we get a tell asking us to occupy it so the downed can join us for assistance.

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Originally Posted by Dazusu

Sure there is. If we're in Abyssea and you're taking 45 minutes while wiping to Itzpapalotl or the like, if it gets to the point where the monster is idle/has a one or two people kiting it with 10 dead on the floor, I'm going to finish it off so my group can get done and not waste time.

As others have rightly pointed out - don't engage what you cannot kill. If this is a recurring problem enough for you to post it here - you should revise your strategies.

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I did not say whipe.

Abyssea is easy mode, go pop something else, our LS does that all the time when someone is on a pop spot, or farm for more pop items.

Its not like your camping a mob that pops every 3 days ( though mob stealing those is bad too)

regardless I did not say full whipe, having a mob go yellow should not happen because one person dies. I even seen NMs go yellow without charm or any deaths ( like charby) stuff like that should not happen.

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Originally Posted by Rambus

regardless I did not say full whipe, having a mob go yellow should not happen because one person dies. I even seen NMs go yellow without charm or any deaths ( like charby) stuff like that should not happen.

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yeah, that is major annoying. Even with DoT still on mobs they may go yellow, and there are alot of mobs in higher levels you do not WANT to damage at times... unless you like to heal them.

No matter what tho' I will never believe that another group should be able to kill a mob with only the 18% HP left, burned Mega abilities and the like gone. Every group that fights an NM should have to fight ALL of an NM. They should also not get the benefit of our farming for pop items, camping or pulling to a safe location. That kind of thing is why my /blist reads like a who's who of party leaders on my server. Kinda like asking for a paycheck... without taking a job.

Am I missing something? The only time a mob should turn white after killing someone is if no one else in the party is engaged. As far as I am aware, even a white mage standing in the back with a weapon out should keep claim in the event of a death or a charm. As for Charby, I'll assume you're talking about DoT kiting? Again, no weapon drawn = you have surrendered the monster.

I have never ever had something I was actively engaged to go unclaimed. Elaborate, please.

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Originally Posted by Glamdring

That kind of thing is why my /blist reads like a who's who of party leaders on my server. Kinda like asking for a paycheck... without taking a job.

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It's more akin to finding a twenty on the ground while waiting to pay for your movie ticket. Hey, free show.

If you're wiping to stuff in abyssea the only people you have blame is yourself. I could maybe see it being fair that a deaggroed NM would regen too 100% as soon as it goes unclaimed but this would nerf a lot of low man strats. Overall sure it's frustrating if someone kills your mob but it'll force you to get better at playing.

The only suggestion I would say is HNMs should stay up until they regen to 100% and stay up for like 1-3 minutes after hitting 100%. If the monster is killed before 100% the group that tagged it will receive the drops/KIs.

This is a terrible idea. If you wipe you deserve to lose claim. Killing an NM that you claim at 1% is your reward for having to watch a group of bad players fail at something.

There are lots of good reasons for not doing as OP suggested.
Some groups just take forever to kill and hold everyone else up.
Some groups claim then wait for another group to kill it for them so they dont have to do the fighting themselves but they get the drop.
If a group fighting just has flat out bad luck I feel more sympathy for them but I dont think any one should be required to take over their game for them. Every loss is a learning experience and maybe next time they will get it. No reason to waste an NM.
My abyssea LS is a top LS. When we get there, well we are going to dominate the area. There really isnt any reason to sit around waiting on other people who are not going to win. We have the day planned for specific goals and one isnt to sit around.
What I see happening a LOT is people claiming and waiting for groups like ours to show up so they can get the drop and we can do the work. It is not fair to us and its a bit babyish.
Mind we will help another group, who is polite, if they ask, although you would be amazed how many are just arrogant fools.

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Originally Posted by Lyall

Am I missing something? The only time a mob should turn white after killing someone is if no one else in the party is engaged. As far as I am aware, even a white mage standing in the back with a weapon out should keep claim in the event of a death or a charm. As for Charby, I'll assume you're talking about DoT kiting? Again, no weapon drawn = you have surrendered the monster.

I have never ever had something I was actively engaged to go unclaimed. Elaborate, please.

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You have to be actively striking (at) the mob to keep it claimed in this manner, spells etc SHOULD keep it claimed as long as you do not die and have performed several hate getting actions against the mob or on players that have performed hate getting actions on the mobs (cures/buffs etc), i have held several NMs as whm curing myself to let the rest of my alliance escape and it has not gone yellow.

I have had the random unclaiming happen to me with the ironclad in abyssea - attohwa(sp?) i pulled him from his spawn point and brought him back to the conflux where my husband and i were killing him, i Nuke him with water 5 for 1800 points of dmg and promptly bio 2 him to get hate off my husband who is on pup using his blm frame. This SHOULD get me stable hate for at least some time even without drawing my weapon because you never draw it to kite the mob. While i pull it around the rock, it is still DoT'ed with bio 2 and helix, it goes yellow. I throw another bio 2 at it like wtf, it goes red, then 5 sec later goes yellow again, the whole time it's still chasing me. So i keep chucking stuff at it, finally it goes down. I have also had similar things happen in ulegrande range on isegebind or whatever it is, he was chasing our rng around, not regening or anything and she still had both her daggers drawn, the mob still had hate on an original member but our procs reset and anyone could have taken him at any time even though we still clearly had viable hate.

I keep thinking of similar situations to this, we were looking for yellow !! on a seal mob, i was tanking it as thf/nin i had done easily 12k+ dmg to the thing with weaponskills so as i was in danger of killing it, i turned around to let the mages do their thing, and while i was still engaged to the mob (daggers drawn) it went yellow, someone could have stolen it out from under us if there had been anyone around. Yes if you fully wipe (we delayed an NM from depopping to help someone that HAD fully wiped) the NM is free for all, but the random unclaims like i stated above are irritating and potentially harmful.

If the person that dies is the last person that performed an action on the mob it will go yellow until someone else in the party performs an action.

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Originally Posted by Insaniac

If the person that dies is the last person that performed an action on the mob it will go yellow until someone else in the party performs an action.

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This is not true, otherwise the NMs wouldn't kill our tank, stay claimed (red) and come rape my sch ^^ they would go yellow and come rape my sch ^^. Also, no one died in my example of simply unlocking and turning my back on the NM, all the NM was doing was wiffing me.

If your tank performs the last hate generating action on the mob and then dies before any other hate generating action is performed it can go yellow. It doesn't always happen because there is a small window for anyone to perform an action and keep it red but that's what usually causes it.

Everything is working as intended.

If you let a mob go unclaimed - you're doing it wrong.

In your logic, any idiot can pop a mob and die/reraise an unlimited amount of times and tie up a NM for absurd amounts of time.

The only exception to this might be Rani - since part of a strategy might involve letting it go yellow/passive to reset the -PDT.

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If you let a mob go unclaimed - you're doing it wrong.

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Try telling that to the BST player base. The claim system is a steaming pile of turd for us really (hi2u Fistule).

I'm also suprised by the amount of people who seem to just stand around waiting for other people to finish fighting NM's and then get pissy when people aren't as fast as all that and "waste my time maaaaan". People who claim this are really wasting their own time by being a slack jawed gawker in the first place.