Legion...

I'm in love with it. Great addition to the game.

Tried it a few times with an old-school Einherjar-like setup + 2 tanks/support. Went pretty well, and will go better with some refinements to group setup (more BLM!)

What's so good about it?

• Not many temporary items.
• No Abyssites.
• No atma(cites)
• No leeches randomly entering

A group is about to go in full of BST & SMN, apparently they think it's Walk of Echoes. It's gonna be interesting to see how that turns out.

I await the "Legion is too hard" bitchery that will arrive in the next couple of hours with glee and delight.

Sounds fun. Its going to be hard for all the kitties and Pink/White/Blue 99's, But i can imagine those with a glimmer of skill or intelligence will have little problem.

Personally, I'll be happy if the Enemies are the hardest part of legion, and the rewards are good and steady. I mean, symbolically speaking, You can punch me in the face as hard as you want so long as i get Ice cream after.

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No temporary items.
No Abyssites.
No atma(cites)

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You had me until this :( makes you sound like the stereotypical Abyssea butthurt guy who does nothing but sit at a computer complaining about "Back in my day FFXI was hard...!"(It wasn't).

Maybe thats not who you are, but thats what it makes you sound like. Show me I'm wrong please :( Why do you believe that those things are bad? I like Temporary Items as long as they don't over-due it... Even with them, They can make a hard fight (Botulus).

Temp items i think help people take care of themselves a little more. Spreads the responsibility around. Especially Potions.

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Originally Posted by Karbuncle

and the rewards are good and steady. I mean,

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We seen EXP scrolls & a scroll of Breakga.

This is right...

Ok First off, LOELEOELEOL at all the people who are about to QQ that legion is to hard.

Secondly thanks SE for putting some good old content that you need to think about and use a proper HNM strat.

For all you casual players i say one thing, Quit your job ok?

Watch old HNM video's, because you will need the brains to do this and not "Fanatics, Champions drink!!!!".

Oh ye and one more Thing, NO MORE PROC LOCK TROLLOELEOELEOELEL epic win etc!

As Charlie Sheen said, "WINNING!"

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Originally Posted by Karbuncle

You had me until this :( makes you sound like the stereotypical Abyssea butthurt guy who does nothing but sit at a computer complaining about "Back in my day FFXI was hard...!"(It wasn't).

Maybe thats not who you are, but thats what it makes you sound like. Show me I'm wrong please :( Why do you believe that those things are bad? I like Temporary Items as long as they don't over-due it... Even with them, They can make a hard fight (Botulus).

Temp items i think help people take care of themselves a little more. Spreads the responsibility around. Especially Potions.

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He's not Saying FFXI back in the day was hard. It's more the case of not any tom and jerry can do this with their eyes closed.

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Originally Posted by Karbuncle

makes you sound like the stereotypical Abyssea butthurt guy

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I said nothing about back in the day, and I was referring to Voidwatch as much as Abyssea (Where temporary items were over-done in both cases), though. I said for me personally it was an upside. You disagree, that's fine. No need to cry about it though.

so i keep seeing shouts for only relic/empy jobs to join legion. is that really the only option or is that person just being anal. i mean surely just because someone has empy/relic on, does not make them a good player. i'm just wondering. i mean i am working on empys now. but still. shouts like that bug me lol. i mean its ok if they completely suck at the job, but you got relic but no skills in that weapon? thats fine, come on down

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Originally Posted by mattkoko

so i keep seeing shouts for only relic/empy jobs to join legion.

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Empy/Relics don't equal a win. It will help, but this requires strategy and teamwork to make good progress beyond the initial 3 mobs.

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Originally Posted by mattkoko

so i keep seeing shouts for only relic/empy jobs to join legion. is that really the only option or is that person just being anal. i mean surely just because someone has empy/relic on, does not make them a good player. i'm just wondering. i mean i am working on empys now. but still. shouts like that bug me lol. i mean its ok if they completely suck at the job, but you got relic but no skills in that weapon? thats fine, come on down

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Just like you said pretty much Skill> gear as you see anyone with 10 empys and they know nothing about the job. The person shouting for emp/relic only is just being anal.

Thank you. I figured as much. I have just seen a few shouts like that since I came back. While I understand gear is important, I see plenty of empy/relic holders that completely suck. Anyway, I look forward to trying it out. Hopefully this weekend haha

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Originally Posted by Dazusu

I said nothing about back in the day, and I was referring to Voidwatch as much as Abyssea (Where temporary items were over-done in both cases), though. I said for me personally it was an upside. You disagree, that's fine. No need to cry about it though.

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Of course you didn't say it directly, Because I wasn't calling you anything, I was implying your statement made it sound that way.

Its why i used those magical qualifying words "Sound" and "Like". Not "You." and "Are."

Just curious why you feel that way. Did you read the rest? I genuinely want to hear your opinion on why Temp items are bad. Second, I protest your childish need to insinuate I was "Crying". You can use the age old cop-out method to answering a question by attempting to defame the one asking it instead of providing a real answer, and take it personally and act all hardcore, Or you can actually answer my question without resorting to attempting to give reasons to my statement.

As for the guy above you saying something blah blah about Tom and Jerry with their eyes closed, The average player still cannot easily beat Botulus Rex or Ig Alima, Temp items or not. Personally i have no problem with it, But the fact of the matter is, Temp items are an "instant win" button, they're only as useful as the player who holds them.

Example: People dying to Chainspell even with Fools drink because they can't macro and/or use it properly.

My intentions were to express my interpretation of your statement, not a definitive accusation of your personality or view, and in turn ask you exactly why you feel removing temp items and such are a positive in events. I want to know your driving reasons behind feeling Temp items are a hindrance to events.

I find that Atmas, Abyssites, Temporary Items take away a lot of the skill required to defeat many encounters in the game.

I've been back to the game for two months now, and just a few weeks ago started participating in Voidwatch.

The idea of keeping up a Fanatics Drink, while spamming abilities and spells to proc weaknesses Abyssea style just so I can use more Fanatics Drinks with the hope of killing the monster through sheer mindless zerging before proccing slows down and/or stops just isn't fun to me - it's the reason I quit in the first place (meaning: Abyssea made things a lot more easy than they were pre-Abyssea - and again, don't take this as me asking for the HNM era back)

During the whole Abyssea era it was almost impossible to fully wipe to anything and lose a mob. Yes it still happened with really bad players, but in general there was a distinct lack of any danger or challenge. For that, I blame accessible temporary items and over-powered buffs (Atmas/Abyssites).

It also seemed that mobs difficulty didn't scale with our level increases, but this is arguable and not the point of my post.

So in closing, I enjoy the danger of tougher fights without stupid amounts of 'aid' being piled onto me and my teams characters like temporary items and overly buffed Atmas. It's tougher and requires more thought. At the moment, the VW mentality (for the most part) is keep fanatics up, proc and hit.

This is why Legion is a breath of fresh air.

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Originally Posted by Yambo99

This is right...

Ok First off, LOELEOELEOL at all the people who are about to QQ that legion is to hard.

Secondly thanks SE for putting some good old content that you need to think about and use a proper HNM strat.

For all you casual players i say one thing, Quit your job ok?

Watch old HNM video's, because you will need the brains to do this and not "Fanatics, Champions drink!!!!".

Oh ye and one more Thing, NO MORE PROC LOCK TROLLOELEOELEOELEL epic win etc!

As Charlie Sheen said, "WINNING!"

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inc sam, drk kclub, and rdm stun-gunning.

3/6/7 mobs = 1 mob?

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Originally Posted by Dazusu

I find that Atmas, Abyssites, Temporary Items take away a lot of the skill required to defeat many encounters in the game.

I've been back to the game for two months now, and just a few weeks ago started participating in Voidwatch.

This is why Legion is a breath of fresh air.

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How long were you gone? Atmas gave the players a chance to see how strong we SHOULD have been at 99, instead of still doing only slightly more damage than we did at 75. The developers could have easily made monsters tough enough to compensate for the increase in player damage and survivability. If anything, that was the only thing wrong with atmas.

At the end of the day what will make or break this event is LOOT.

No one cares about challenges if the pot isnt sweet. Will SE deliver? We'll soon see.

My only complaint so far is it's a bit too much like old hnm. And what I mean by that is an alliance where only plds, whms, and sams are welcome, with an alex smn just for kicks. Atleast VW gave us diversity.

I don't know what's wrong with my server haven't seen a single shout for it. They all seem to be into doing VW the older tiers too.

Really wanted to try out legion.

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Originally Posted by Calamity

My only complaint so far is it's a bit too much like old hnm. And what I mean by that is an alliance where only plds, whms, and sams are welcome, with an alex smn just for kicks. Atleast VW gave us diversity.

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And no sooner did I post this than I get a blind invite to legion on drk. It's kinda fun. From my experience, Cerb needs to go down first. He likes to spam a very potent GoH every 5-10 seconds, which is the most dangerous move I saw in there. Best to eat it up with a PD. Other than that it seems very doable. Killed Hydra and half killed Cerb. If we'd chosen to start with Cerb we'd likely have won. But we know for tomorrow.

Basically i recommend all DD /nin. Rng and cor seem really friendly to this event. 3 pld. Just did a run. Seems like all link. Will need to individually fight them and have 2 plds hold while DD take them down SLOWLY lol >.< Yes, this seems oldschool. People without up to par gear meaning PDT MDT TP WS resist sets are recommended highly. The single target spells seem aoe. Monsters hit like a truck. In 43% PDT got 2 shotted. No trolling plz guys, recommend your opinions and input.

It's always the same. On day one the idiotic LS think it's cool to have PLD tank (becoz the mobs are hard guyz) then more people do the event and transform it into a zerk. On day three everyone will throw 2.5K HP monks on them split in 3 parties or alliances, until everyone realizes that the drops suck balls that is.

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Originally Posted by MarkovChain

It's always the same. On day one the idiotic LS think it's cool to have PLD tank (becoz the mobs are hard guyz) then more people do the event and transform it into a zerk. On day three everyone will throw 2.5K HP monks on them split in 3 parties or alliances, until everyone realizes that the drops suck balls that is.

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Oh you again lol. Well so far, I don't think mnks can tank this stuff. Did you try legion yet?

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Originally Posted by mattkoko

so i keep seeing shouts for only relic/empy jobs to join legion. is that really the only option or is that person just being anal. i mean surely just because someone has empy/relic on, does not make them a good player. i'm just wondering. i mean i am working on empys now. but still. shouts like that bug me lol. i mean its ok if they completely suck at the job, but you got relic but no skills in that weapon? thats fine, come on down

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I personally think you should have atleast one weapon. It's not hard to get an empyrian, and for the most part, they are the easiest alternative to doing decent damage. As long as your not using an AH weapon, and you understand gear swapping and oldschool HNMs, you should be fine lol >.<

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Originally Posted by Fupafighter

Basically i recommend all DD /nin. Rng and cor seem really friendly to this event. 3 pld. Just did a run. Seems like all link. Will need to individually fight them and have 2 plds hold while DD take them down SLOWLY lol >.< Yes, this seems oldschool. People without up to par gear meaning PDT MDT TP WS resist sets are recommended highly. The single target spells seem aoe. Monsters hit like a truck. In 43% PDT got 2 shotted. No trolling plz guys, recommend your opinions and input.

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Even worse than linking, they have party hate. So basically if it comes down to needing to wipe and recover, all must wipe together in a spot where the mobs won't agro after reraise. If even one person has hate on an nm, they will hunt down every last living member.

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Originally Posted by MarkovChain

It's always the same. On day one the idiotic LS think it's cool to have PLD tank (becoz the mobs are hard guyz) then more people do the event and transform it into a zerk. On day three everyone will throw 2.5K HP monks on them split in 3 parties or alliances, until everyone realizes that the drops suck balls that is.

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Monks can not tank this stuff, you need a proper old school hnm style alliance.

Think before you speak and do some research/try it yourself.

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Originally Posted by Yambo99

Monks can not tank this stuff, you need a proper old school hnm style alliance.

Think before you speak and do some research/try it yourself.

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I believe this is the guy that thinks sam and drg can't maintain mythic lvl 3 lol.

I mean marco, not yambo lol

I'm weary, groups were already starting to /sh for Empy / Relic DD's ONRY on things like Pil. We'll see how it goes, but the shared loot pool doesn't bode well for large member PUGs.

People got it stuck in their head that Empy / Relic = WINZ DAR GAME.

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Originally Posted by Fupafighter

Basically i recommend all DD /nin. Rng and cor seem really friendly to this event. 3 pld. Just did a run. Seems like all link. Will need to individually fight them and have 2 plds hold while DD take them down SLOWLY lol >.< Yes, this seems oldschool. People without up to par gear meaning PDT MDT TP WS resist sets are recommended highly. The single target spells seem aoe. Monsters hit like a truck. In 43% PDT got 2 shotted. No trolling plz guys, recommend your opinions and input.

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If single target spells are aoe, DD/nin seems a bit pointless?

After reading the posts from the Rising Sun wannabes, it looks as if I'll have no real interest in Legion unless there's some game-changing rewards involved.

I don't mind trying it out once a strategy is mapped out that is NOT exclusionary.

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Originally Posted by Tamoa

If single target spells are aoe, DD/nin seems a bit pointless?

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Not when a mob that hits for 600-1k comes swingin at your DD's lol. Your DD's get 7 shadows. Can easily put up another set of shadows if they time their casting. And stuns should be in place for magic.

6 shadows. my bad.

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Originally Posted by Dazusu

• Not many temporary items.
• No Abyssites.
• No atma(cites)
• No leeches randomly entering

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I actually love this part too. I have a very distinct problem with temp items and ridiculous buffs, several in fact. Aside from making the game easier, which I don't necessarily have a problem with, it also makes it hard to calculate the efficiency of your job and of gear. You can gear for whatever you want, there's always gonna be special cases that make all your calculations useless. In Abyssea it was Atma that completely screwed your calculations over. You had to use special gear and occasionally even special weapon skills to perform at your best. In VW again all your calculations are skewed by a drastically shortened TP phase and a lot higher fTP on average. It's hard to judge what's best anymore when every situation requires different assumptions. I simply wanted to play "as is" again, play my own character, the stats I have and the gear I have, nothing else. And for that, I love Legion already.

Temp item spam was never much fun. It kinda defeated the purpose of what I was gearing and skilling for. It's not about easy vs. hard or old vs. new, it simply didn't feel like FFXI, like the game I was usually playing, and in fact, none of VW is. BLMs don't nuke, they don't do damage, they proc. Same as every job that doesn't have a high-end weapon and happens to be a heavy hitter. DDs don't gear for PDT or MDT much, they use temps. They have nearly 0 TP phase, they have no need to gear for Haste or DA/TA, instead they have Miser's Roll and Save TP (or well, they used to, let's see how it'll change now). People don't need tactics and they don't need preparation. They rarely even need to pay attention. It seems like the EXP aspect of Abyssea translated into the endgame aspect of VW, where a group of 18 does their average in a relaxed setting and has no trouble pulling it off. It just didn't feel like the game I was normally playing. It seemed like a dumbed down version of it.

I've been longing for something like Legion, simply because it feels more like a game where you actually have to play and try to win than anything else. It's still not exactly what I was looking for, but I hope the future dungeon crawl system will be just that. It's definitely a good start.

Wonder how much the -1 armor will be now lol.

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Originally Posted by Yambo99

He's not Saying FFXI back in the day was hard. It's more the case of not any tom and jerry can do this with their eyes closed.

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Sounds like you have a problem with the biggest playerbase in online gaming now.

I hate legion. The area is tiny and DD's die too fast.

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Originally Posted by Oscar71

I hate legion. The area is tiny and DD's die too fast.

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Sadly true. And people don't understand what kiting means lol. Mean's you throw on your movement speed and kite around a pillar lol, not run at the whm begging for a cure and get us all aoe lol.

Amazing how ya can't outrun a turtle :P

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Originally Posted by Fupafighter

Amazing how ya can't outrun a turtle :P

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Honestly, turtles just lie in wait for you to slip up ONCE, then it's all over. Legion would be really good with the right adjustments. No it's not "too hard", but it's also creating a very minimalistic mindset that Uncharted Nyzul created, basically something the majority of the playerbase will never really get into.

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Originally Posted by Oscar71

I hate legion. The area is tiny and DD's die too fast.

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Because too many DDs now have forgotten what it means to let the tank tank. Hold back if you get low on HP, and outrun big aga spells if you can, or if you're monk (or other jobs with a stun ws, but mnk in particular since all their ws bar VS suck), use shoulder tackle instead of a bigger ws just to help to keep yourself and your team mates alive.