Rant About Current End Game - ADL and Voidwatch = Old FFXI, No Thanks

Just been rather upset with certain updates the game has been presenting itself lately. Firstly was the introduction to Voidwatch. Great concept when you see it on paper. Then I experienced it in action and was like "ummm wtf". Felt like we were going back to hardcore ffxi status again in which you needed 18 people to do any end game content.

Voidwatch feels like a revised hardcore Abyssea. The atmacites are total jokes even at full power and having 3 fully equipped atmacites maybe make you 5-10% stronger at most. Drops being in the 5% or less area yet again back to the old school methods. I'm sure people wanna do 50-100 Pils just to MAYBE get 1 Toci's Harness...

Combined with having drops be totally chest dependent like Walk of Echoes (another good system but still fails in the long run, needs work). Abyssea was a great system that truely rewarded the player for their time and effort and you seemed to have stripped that from Voidwatch. The missions of voidwatch give you absolutely no reward whatsoever. Hell in Abyssea, doing the missions at least gave you unique atmas and other little things to benefit you. All the time I spent in Abyssea, I was rewarded for my time and it showed through all the work I did.

Also another element that was brought back in end game old school ffxi was the job biased tier system. So many jobs are completely useless in Voidwatch that you purposely have to use broken/effective jobs to beat any of the hard NMs. Being a career thf with a Mandau, I get sick and tired of people turning me down with the typical "lolthf no thanks, you got sam,drk,war,mnk job?" comment. People only want pld, whm, rdm, blm, brd, war, mnk, drk, sam, rng, smn and cor for their VW parties. Other jobs such as thf, drg, pup, bst, etc have nothing to bring to the table and are considered useless in voidwatch.

Then there's the trial for relic weapons for Lv 99 and Lv 99 Aura. The fact that Arch Dynamis Lord, being a tough SOB as he is and that only the top maybe 10% players in the game can actually beat him (don't kid yourself that a pick up group can beat this, definitely ain't happening). And the fact that in comparison to all the other trials, this trial is the more difficult than all the other trial progressions put together. I thought relic people were punished enough by scavenging 17000 single ancient currency to make the Lv 75 version on top of killing annoying NMs for the items.

Sadly I will never complete my 99 trial Mandau due to this stupid trial being overly hard and not possible when SE stated that "the majority of players can do this trial" which is a total lie. Maybe if the NM was just kill 5 ADLs then maybe, but needing 5 items that cost 20-40 mil each, no one is going to help you get those 5 for free. You can't force teamwork where you gain something and everyone else gains nothing from it. Maybe your friends will help you because they want to but 17 other random joe blows are definitely not going to help you.

Granted the Mythic weapon users with the insane trials in general from start to end is tough and the final trial is easy and the Empyreal weapon users final 2 trials which are totally stupid and overly expensive/unrealistic (seriously 1500 plates, what were you thinking?), those legendary weapons are punished just as bad. These weapons get punished unnecessarily one way or another on the course of the journey of completion.

End game should be more like abyssea where players are rewarded for their time and effort. Difficulty is one thing but putting in stupid factors like 1% drop rates, needing way too many people to beat something, and only certain jobs are acceptable to use in end game, then you have a completely different problem of bad game design.

I love this game so much but it seems that the creator/director wants to punish us more by throwing us back into the hardcore/no life/biased/elitist bandwagon to get anything we want done. Sorry but this isn't right.

It all started with the decimation of HNM, people will constantly cry about others cheating regardless of if they have proof or not. So to "cure" the problem of botting, land king HNM were turned into pop items with abysmal drop rates effectively ruining it for everyone since its now way harder to get anything from them. Everything SE has added is grinding based content with atma/temp items so even the noobiest of players can kill the "end game" content, why? Because SE won't just give out and easy way to obtain things, original kings were designed to keep the flow of rare/sought after items low so that not everyone had them and the ppl who did have them felt good about it, to achieve that goal was reward in itself. Now since most servers had bitters monopolising claims SE had to rethink the system but maintain the idea of a limited flow of ghe good items. So we got kings in the form of pop items and we all know how fun they are now.

VWNM also fed off this idea, don't make drops easy, don't make fights easy. Original HNM (21-24 48-72 etc) were not hard but lots of times they seemed that way due to the stress of worrying, about ig your gonna claim, if something goes wrong we'll wipe and lose claim to another PT, will we have enough ppl to kill it when it pops, will someone try to MPK us? things like that had ppl stressed out since claiming was rare and if you lost claim due to it going white or some one didn't do something right and you wiped it might be days/weeks before you got he chance to fight it again.

With VWNM all that stress from previous HNM was negated since you don't have to worry about claiming/When its gonna pop/if your gonna have enough/having claim taken by another LS. All that was left was worrying about the drop you wanted, so what happened next? SE gave most the VWNM 1 shot capabilities, high HP, debilitating AoEs, things of that sort that even the good players were'nt able to farm the NM effectivly.

This is what refer to as luck based content; content that despite the calibur of skill/gear you have everyone bad/good has same chance to kill it since theres only one way to kill it = rely on staggers/atma/temp items or fail. Botulus Rex is a prime example, that thing has to be stagger locked most of the fight since all of its attacks are extremely nasty and will kill you in seconds, so even if you have the best gear/equip possible you will still get wrecked by NM if its not staggered most the time. ADL is another example, the only defensive against that thing is Perfect defense, no one can survive those AoEs at a lower % from all them clones going off at once. They need to give us the 20-40m fights like it use to be, i miss 30-45m Tiamats, 15-25m DI, 10-20m Cerb/khim. Now every fight has to end fast or AoE will kill you or get hit by death/charm and kill all your mages.

You forgot to add that the hnm you were hunting had garbage drops and only idiots would go after them in the first place, hence why it took you so long to kill them.

300M+ bank a month from SW/DI/Tia says you have no idea what you're talking about, sound mad like you couldn't claim.

lolz, Mr Noob killing mobs with retarded drops bragging about their 300M split between 30 players. Priceless. 1 scorpion harness for every member !

So you start with this:

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Originally Posted by Natenn

It all started with the decimation of HNM, people will constantly cry about others cheating regardless of if they have proof or not. So to "cure" the problem of botting, land king HNM were turned into pop items with abysmal drop rates effectively ruining it for everyone since its now way harder to get anything from them.

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What did you describe this system as other than the "good-ole-days?" When I remember hnm camping.... gee I thought it was kind of:


LUCK BASED CONTENT

because.... it's ENTIRELY depended upon who was "lucky" and claimed the mob.


tl;dr? Claiming is still considered luck based unless you want to admit to 3rd party program use on the official ffxi forums.....

Are you certain you're not just unhappy that there's no 3rd party program that will put your shiny in your VW box and not mine?

Claiming was luck based, not wiping took skill.

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Originally Posted by MarkovChain

lolz, Mr Noob killing mobs with retarded drops bragging about their 300M split between 30 players. Priceless. 1 scorpion harness for every member !

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You're the only noob i see here, you clearly have no idea what you were talking about. We had a Maximum of maby 30 back then, usualy half that around the clock, $ was ditributed by attendance to everything we did. showing up to camp/scan/at the kill, hours spent farming sea, ect. Basically the LS did everything together. At the end of the month all the points were given a value based on bank which was usually at least 300M to 500M, the most casual of members made like 2-5M, id be pulling in 10-20M, if you think thats garbage for back then you are an idiot. Like i said before, people know who i am, who are you? a big mouth who brags about getting lucky on ADL, turns around and bashes others for braging. Pot calling the kettle black.

ANYWAY, sadly legion looks like more zerg content zzzz

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Originally Posted by Natenn

Claiming was luck based, not wiping took skill.

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Skill on what exactly ....

Fafnir was a joke, Nid was a slightly harder Fafnir.
KB was a joke, just keep healers out of range.
Tia turned into a joke, I still remember the short period where a BRD/NIN could tank her
Jormy was a joke, nobody did him anyway
ToAU NM's were jokes once you know what to avoid

About the only HNM that was remotely *hard* was Vytra, and only cause of her summons and repops. Got enough manpower and she becomes just as easy as the rest.

HNM "end game" was 99% about getting the claim, and 1% not being stupid enough to wipe.

and yet most ppl struggled and or wiped.

That because all the idiots camping hnms were gimped. Lol@ bragging about not wiping to hnms. Seriously. Seriously HnM money makers were garbage, having all your LS member do "The Ashu Taliff" missions, all trioable, dayly repeatable, is still and used to be inifinitely better. Drops included multimillions attachements & mat like cerberus hide with super high chance. But I guess the giant noob you are had/has no idea they even existed. This game has never been large-LS friendly. One LS for every event=fail, and you prove it. It's funny you are even mentionning sea because last I checked absolutely no sea item was worth farming, even novio (not on it's own but getting it from bazar was the best time/ratio reward).

I get sick of the zerg crap. Seems that's the only way to beat any HNM nowadays. Not exactly thought compelling. Zerg = just brainless attacking and hope it dies. All VWNMs = old school DL fights where CS Stun is replaced with Proc to terror mob for x minutes and hope it dies.

I, for one, think low man is way more skilled than 18 man fights. Fighting a tough NM with 6 people where making a mistake is extremely costly because 1 member = 1/6th of your team, especially if you lose the tank or whm, you are extremely boned. Least with 18 people, can sacrifice a few bodies and you'll be ok. But that isn't possible when a damn NM is spamming an AOE that does almost full hp to most DDs and probably 3/4 to a tank. I miss my 6 man fights. Wish VW was 6 mannable, same with ADL (and using a balanced party setup, not the typical 5 Mnks/DDs, Smn PD BS). I like doing the content with my good friends/LS. We work great together and like helping each other obtain our goals.

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Originally Posted by MarkovChain

You forgot to add that the hnm you were hunting had garbage drops and only idiots would go after them in the first place, hence why it took you so long to kill them.

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If you bothered to play anything besides monk, you would know this statement in incorrect. Some of those 'garbage' items are still the best in slot, like armadaberk for war and drk TP sets.

More fail from the gimpchan =[

the good LSes got their adaberk from odin, not from fafhog. and the talk was about money makers. ive always laughed on the inside a all the noobs camping cerberus personally, when the hides droped like 50% of the time from the ashu talif chests.

It gave the campers a superiority complex, that's it. Now they come on the OF explaining us ADL is too hard.

Because Odin and the Ashu Talif were available before ToAU, and camping Cerberus and HNMs means you can't do anything else to make money.

None of the "campers" are complaining that ADL is too hard. Its the people who either have to buy the marrows or try with a pickup group who say its too hard.

I didn't know cerberus was available prior to toau. Everything he mentions his ToAU, and the nashmau assault missions became live soon after toau. In reality he considers his LS wiping to ADL lack of luck when it's lack of skill. I've explained 100% winrate startegies in the ADL thread. Any alliance should be able to lock ADL with shock squall and PD, having to kill more than 2-3 ADL clones is uncommon.

Complaining because I am not able to ADL with 6 people that aren't all mnks and smn. Also, working with 17 other people that aren't gonna let me freely have the marrow. I have no options other than making a LS that is 18+ members big. Sorry but I'm done with that crap. Too much work and time. Just because you can beat it Mark doesn't mean it's fine the way it is. That's like saying because you're a millionaire and I'm a 50k/yr salary man that you are entitled to eating at a french restaurant that serves $50 dishes and I'm not because the waiter says, "sorry, only rich people are allowed to dine in here". Sorry but the playing field is far from fair.

you can prob kill adl with 2 wars, a bard and a smn. Don't need 18. more you bring the higher your chances.

Ya the fact you need a brd and a smn to do ADL just shows ya how broken the fight is and you need those jobs to do the fight because if you don't you'll die from the massive aoe dmg. 20 jobs to choose from and only 1-2 possible combinations work for fighting a HNM. Should be more diverse than that.

They said the same thing about AV. Honestly though, is it really any different from "needing BLM, BRD, NIN" etc to proc and farm Abyssea? You can definitely put together a lowman static for ADL of 6-12 ppl. It isn't as out of reach for the average player as one has been led to believe from reading these forums.

In retrospect I'm perfectly fine with ADL. Hey it's cool if they want to maintain 1+ groups to do end game because that's as it should be. My problem was that, ADL is END GAME. Lv75 content as it stands isn't really end game anymore. Not when I can solo Kirin on my BST consistently. Maybe "solo end game" if you want to call it that.

Anyway, real up to date END GAME that requires more than 3 people SHOULD NOT mix with magian trials. Ever. But it does. So either you deal or not at all. And I don't care what anyone says ever. I don't care how "easy" it is for you and so on. Going through ADL for lv99 relics is another bullshit ploy at time sinks and getting kicks at the expense of the players. But hey, it's cool. I didn't want to break my back getting a lv99 by other means they could come up with. I've got my free MMOs that seem to be working out quite nicely. It's only a matter of time now.

In short SE owes us easy paths to lv99 versions of our lv75 gears, and to save the up to date end game hard shit for new content. Personally, I still hold the idea that the 75 shit should have been dumped to the side and we moved on completely because it doesn't really matter but anywho, the game is what it is right now. Either you deal, or not. But I know one thing for certain. If you utter the words FFXI and skill, you're full of yourself.

Is this guy serious? He calls everyone who did HNM noobs and says all HNM drops were garbage, well my main LS did all HNM bar kings since everyone had their fafhogg drops and black belts. Calling the first LS that killed PW back at 75 with less then 30 noobs? The first NA LS to kill Vrtra with only 18 w/o kiting in about 45m noobs? You never accomplished either till lvl cap increase if at all probably, i think its funny whenever anyone disagrees with you they get called a noob then you spout off about skills you don't have like MNK is a skill based job. Gaiters, E body, Defending ring, ect. were all out waaaay before Einherjar was introduced or was exclusive to the HNM. SW/DI drops only came from the NMs for the longest time, only DI tail became available from VW drops, and Cerb was out before hide dropped from anywhere else. Also, anything you need to PD zerg to win is not skill based, its luck based. If anyone says otherwise = they're an idiot. If you ever kill ADL w/o PD then i'll agree with you.

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Originally Posted by Natenn

300M+ bank a month from SW/DI/Tia says you have no idea what you're talking about, sound mad like you couldn't claim.

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You kidding? More like 200-300M a week.

Those were the days :o

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Originally Posted by MarkovChain

lolz, Mr Noob killing mobs with retarded drops bragging about their 300M split between 30 players. Priceless. 1 scorpion harness for every member !

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More like 7-10.

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Originally Posted by Natenn

The first NA LS to kill Vrtra with only 18 w/o kiting in about 45m noobs?

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I had to double check the drops. Yeah/...lol

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You never accomplished either till lvl cap increase if at all probably,

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True, never killed any HnM though I had capped rdm,blm & mnk gear.

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i think its funny whenever anyone disagrees with you they get called a noob then you spout off about skills you don't have like MNK is a skill based job.

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It's because you ARE a noob. You are zxplaining us that hunting mobs that *might* drop items selling for 2M (and as a group) was a great achievement and therefore worth doing. I'm sorry.

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Gaiters, E body, Defending ring, ect.

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Anyone knows that Nyzul body and salvage bodies were suyperior in every situation except those that liked shinies, trying to argue accuracy and other bullshit. Funny that you are mentionning defending ring (useless) to defend your point and qqing about luck based content on the other side.

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SW/DI drops only came from the NMs for the longest time, only DI tail became available from VW drops, and Cerb was out before hide dropped from anywhere else.

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Blabla. DI drops are no better than your average ENM. First killed 1 days after release etc. Give us a break. You are monk and want speed shoes ? Auction house, problem solved. The game was balanced ; there were the gimps that hunted DI and the clever that farmed gil to buy it.

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Originally Posted by MarkovChain

I had to double check the drops. Yeah/...lol



True, never killed any HnM though I had capped rdm,blm & mnk gear.




It's because you ARE a noob. You are zxplaining us that hunting mobs that *might* drop items selling for 2M (and as a group) was a great achievement and therefore worth doing. I'm sorry.





Anyone knows that Nyzul body and salvage bodies were suyperior in every situation except those that liked shinies, trying to argue accuracy and other bullshit. Funny that you are mentionning defending ring (useless) to defend your point and qqing about luck based content on the other side.




Blabla. DI drops are no better than your average ENM. First killed 1 days after release etc. Give us a break. You are monk and want speed shoes ? Auction house, problem solved. The game was balanced ; there were the gimps that hunted DI and the clever that farmed gil to buy it.

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ROFL get with the time you mong.
Come back when 300k out ways 300mil!

Also stop moaning because you can't claim etc.
One more thing this was the best thing you said btw " there were the gimps that hunted DI and the clever that farmed gil to buy it." More like we were the clever ones who farmed the mob for no gil. to sell to you for Gil. Seriously frenchie get with the times.
LOELOELEOELEOELEOL GIMP LOELEOELEOEL

Don't need to claim. Took me 1 day to get BB item. Enter dragon Aery, pay 4 M per item to the LS leader (that probaly kept half of it for himlself). Goodbye hnms. Not sure what you 300k vs 300M is referring to. You didn't to 300M a week bro lol. Nantenn is overly exagerating his point and already explained it's 300M a month between 30 members, pretty fail. You guys have a hard time facing the games reality. Claiming complex I think. I bought my shenlongs to apathy for 45M I'm glad their slaves thought they made a good deal., I definitely made one. I think me and mdk were doing over 10M each a week just doing dayly ashu taliff bcnms, and cerberus hide was the bad drop.

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Originally Posted by MarkovChain

Don't need to claim. Took me 1 day to get BB item. Enter dragon Aery, pay 4 M per item to the LS leader (that probaly kept half of it for himlself). Goodbye hnms. Not sure what you 300k vs 300M is referring to. You didn't to 300M a week bro lol. Nantenn is overly exagerating his point and already explained it's 300M a month between 30 members, pretty fail. You guys have a hard time facing the games reality. Claiming complex I think. I bought my shenlongs to apathy for 45M I'm glad their slaves thought they made a good deal., I definitely made one. I think me and mdk were doing over 10M each a week just doing dayly ashu taliff bcnms, and cerberus hide was the bad drop.

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You don't seem to understand it takes an LS 10mins to earn 45mil it takes you 3 weeks of like 10 hours per day constant farming. do the math seriously. Plus i'm not your bro k thanks LOELEOELEOL

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Originally Posted by Natenn

Is this guy serious? He calls everyone who did HNM noobs and says all HNM drops were garbage, well my main LS did all HNM bar kings since everyone had their fafhogg drops and black belts. Calling the first LS that killed PW back at 75 with less then 30 noobs? The first NA LS to kill Vrtra with only 18 w/o kiting in about 45m noobs? You never accomplished either till lvl cap increase if at all probably, i think its funny whenever anyone disagrees with you they get called a noob then you spout off about skills you don't have like MNK is a skill based job. Gaiters, E body, Defending ring, ect. were all out waaaay before Einherjar was introduced or was exclusive to the HNM. SW/DI drops only came from the NMs for the longest time, only DI tail became available from VW drops, and Cerb was out before hide dropped from anywhere else. Also, anything you need to PD zerg to win is not skill based, its luck based. If anyone says otherwise = they're an idiot. If you ever kill ADL w/o PD then i'll agree with you.

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Write all that on your resume. Maybe someone will care.....

Get over it dude.

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Originally Posted by Natenn

Claiming was luck based, not wiping took skill.

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So, if we follow your misguided argument:

Luck ======> Skill is good

BUT

Skill =======> Luck is bad

In reality, your complaint is that there's no way around the luck part. In other words:

No bots will put your treasures in the box;;;;;;;

You can kill ADL without PD, just need luck. We popped one without pd on accident, and killed a clone. If we got lucky we would have won. Sadly it wasnt the right clone so we eventualy died.

I never understood why it's so problematic for some people to "save 2 hours" or to use 2 hours. It's a job ability.

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Originally Posted by Yambo99

You don't seem to understand it takes an LS 10mins to earn 45mil it takes you 3 weeks of like 10 hours per day constant farming. do the math seriously. Plus i'm not your bro k thanks LOELEOELEOL

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Are seriosuly saying it required 10 minutes to get a PW pop and kill it back at 75 ? It amounts to several hundreds of hours of farming.

lol at noobs crying about bots, not everyone botted. Just trying to make excuses for not claiming. I really do hope they bring back HNM so ppl like braegoface over there can QQ about being gimp some more.

I didn't mention bots in my discussion but at least now we know on what side you are. You can't achieve things without bots I see. Untill you find a bot to do ADL mwhaha. Who wants to bet he used abyssea ??? claim bots?

Get back to me when a standard balanced group of 6 can kill ADL without PD then I'll give it a shot.

So basically, we have good ole "game is too easy, make it harder", to "game is too hard, make it easier". That's what I'm getting out of this.

There is a line between difficulty. And definately it's out of wack in ffxi. Abyssea = bit too easy, then they introduce voidwatch and it's way stupid hard and demanding. Needs to be an in between and it will be just right. Along with decent drop rates (1% shit = needs to go). ADL is the same thing. Too difficult to be called (quote by SE), "majority of people can do this content"....sorry SE...no. Dunno where their head is.