Blade: Jin set up

So i am looking for a good blade:jin setup. i have went through wiki and tried to get as much dex and str out of what i have but the best blade: jin i have been able to put out was just barely over 1900 and that was in abyssea with razied rune atma, outside abyssea the bet i have seen is a little over 1000. So i am at a bit of a lose, is it my gear, my katana, i just dont get how so many other ninjas can wiped out 2500+ blade:jin's like it is nothing.

This is my setup:

Head: Fourth Division haube
Body: Kirin's osode
Neck: Chivalrous chain
Hands: Ochimusha kote
Waist: Warwolf Belt
Feet: Areion's Gamashes

Ah and i almost forgot i am also off-handed the Komome, with a Sekka +2 as my main hand and i have also tried my Shushui in my main hand

my jin setup is lazy, a year old, but decent.

Head: Gnadbhod's Helm
Body: Haubergeon
Neck: Breeze Gorget (get these gorgets, srs)
Hands: Ninja Tekko +1 (if you cant get these, I have no idea what other people use, I've had these for a long time. Aurore looks like a decent inclusion for WS?)
Waist: Warwolf
Legs: Byakko's Haidate.
Feet: Iga Kyahan (I'm lying, but I almost have them, I'm actually using Rutters)
Ear1: Brutal Earring
Ear2: Waetoto's/SomeSTRRing
Ring1: Rajas Ring
Ring2: Ulthalams/Snipers
Ammo: Bomblet

seems like a pretty good set up, bad thing about the legs is i still dont have sky (after 2 years of playing) and like you i swear the Iga feet hate me lol. Long story short here i guess is out of everything you listed i have the haubergeon, warwolf belt and bomblet >.>

My Blade: Jin is mainly just thrown together bits and pieces as I've not given it enough attention.

Atma - RR/GH/Apoc.

Hochomasamune/Kamome
Qirmiz Tathlum
Varangian Helm
WS Gorget
Ethereal Earring/Brutal Earring
Loki's Kaftan - Haubergeon/+1 is very good too.
Ochimusha Kote
Rajas/Epona's
Atheling Mantle
WS Belt - Warwolf is good as well.
Tumbler Trunks
Lithe Boots

This was the last set up I was using. Some of it is kinda meh until I find a better replacement.

Anwig Salade (w/ WS ACC and WS DMG augment)
Iga Erimaki/Breeze Gorget
Brutal Earring
Ethereal Earring
Iga Ningi +2
Iga Tekko +1
Heed Ring/Ulthalams
Rajas Ring
Atheling Mantle/Iga Dochugappa
Anguinus Belt
Iga Hakama +2
Areion's Gamashes

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Invasion

My Blade: Jin is mainly just thrown together bits and pieces as I've not given it enough attention.

Atma - RR/GH/Apoc.

Hochomasamune/Kamome
Qirmiz Tathlum
Varangian Helm
WS Gorget
Ethereal Earring/Brutal Earring
Loki's Kaftan - Haubergeon/+1 is very good too.
Ochimusha Kote
Rajas/Epona's
Atheling Mantle
WS Belt - Warwolf is good as well.
Tumbler Trunks
Lithe Boots

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When you say WS belt which one are you talking about?

http://wiki.ffxiclopedia.org/wiki/Breeze_Belt

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Bulrogg

This was the last set up I was using. Some of it is kinda meh until I find a better replacement.

Anwig Salade (w/ WS ACC and WS DMG augment)
Iga Erimaki/Breeze Gorget
Brutal Earring
Ethereal Earring
Iga Ningi +2
Iga Tekko +1
Heed Ring/Ulthalams
Rajas Ring
Atheling Mantle/Iga Dochugappa
Anguinus Belt
Iga Hakama +2
Areion's Gamashes

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What are your katana's? And with the belt is that one more for the ACC?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Nattack

http://wiki.ffxiclopedia.org/wiki/Breeze_Belt

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Ahh wow had no idea there was a belt out as well as a neck piece, ty

So i have a quick question, would it be best to try and keep the DEX and STR as close as i can for the ws or does it matter if you have say more str then dex?

Uzura+1/Kamome still working on helms/skins for Kannagi
the belt is for the Attk and DblAttk

CritRate > STR > DEX i believe it is, unless some piece of the gear has overwhelming stats.

That's why Senjuinrikio has been king for many, many years.

More STR than DEX inside Abyssea if you use RR/GH. Also it is debatable whether WS Gorget/Belts are still worthwhile for multi-hit WS as the accuracy gained isn't as big a deal as it once was. The actual damaged gained from the ftp increase may not surpass the STR you can get from some pieces as it only applies to the first hit of the WS, not all 3.

For a better understanding click Here.

There isn't a priority over one another as far as STR and DEX. They are BOTH 30% multipliers.

But if you wanted to put one over the other, DEX > STR since Jin is a Critical hit rate WS, Dex is what decides your Critical hit rate, ACC, AND its a 30% multiplier.

And, if you wanted to prioritize them in order its Katana skill>Critical Hit rate>STR&DEX are equals@30%modifiers > Attack is last really...

Merit that Katana skill, make sure it's capped, cap critical hit rate and cap both str and dex in merits equally...the multipliers make them equal. I've broke 2500..do it pretty constantly with only a few pieces of IGA+2 gear and then the remainder of other gear. Especially in Abyssea I break 2500.

At 75 in a burn pt before Abyssea, I did 2123 Blade: Jin with my old school set up. Basically everything listed below if you take the Iga out of the list. Max Katana, Critical Hit rate, Fudo off hand

Main: Senji Offhand: Kamome
Head: Optical Hat forever, just for the ACC, but there are other helms out now...Iga+1 and Iga+2 is best tho.
Body: Kirin's Osode til IGA+
Hands: Ochimusha Kote til IGA+
Legs: Byakko's Haidate til IGA+
Feet: Rutter Sabatons or if your Hume, level 60 RSE feet. til IGA+
Waist: Warwolf Belt
Neck: Chivalrous chain is acceptable, helps with ACC (Gave up on the WS gorget, doesn't seem to really help anymore.) But for max damage, and this is MY opinion, use the Katana Skill Gorget.
Back:Cuchulain's Mantle if you can afford it, Cerb mantle is good enough, or Commander's +3 str dex agi
Rings: I use 1 Flame and 1 Breeze or whatever gives +5 dex, I forget. Plan to get +7 rings when prices lower. 1 STR 1 DEX
Earrings: I do have 2 +2 Dex earrings but I was able to afford it back in the day because of my Smithing skill..was able to make some HQ gear for a 100+3 GS'er...not recommended to go broke over tho. Minuet earring and whatever else is suitable for WS macro.

I have max Katana Skill, I'd suggest the katana skill gorget over the WS dmg Gorget anyday IMO. I think those WS gorgets are broke now.

under what notion do your WS gorgets no longer help?

also hitting a high jin once doesnt really mean much :\

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Een

There isn't a priority over one another as far as STR and DEX. They are BOTH 30% multipliers.

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I'm going to disagree with this point. You are right, they are 30% modifiers, but, Strength is also compared to the enemies Vitality. This comparison in turn adds to the base damage of our weapon, up to a specific cap (depending on the current base damage of your katana).

What this means is unless you're hitting that cap between your Strength and the enemies Vitality, strength is going to outweigh Dexterity. There are a few cases where this is muddied a bit. Cases where your critical hit rate (your Dexterity compared to the enemies Agility) is very low, you can benefit from added Dexterity. Though surprise of surprises, there is also cap to that Dexterity-Agility comparison. As well as incredibly low accuracy situations where the 7 acc from Byakko's Haidate may in fact help you.

Unfortunately you're not going to find an all encompassing rule in regards to gearing for Blade: Jin. You could dissect each mobs stats vs. your own and come up with a good idea. That is a lot of work, and removes a lot of enjoyment from many players. The best bet is to aim for gearing for both stats, but lean towards Strength, unless your Dexterity value far outweighs the Strength value on a piece of equipment.

My suggestions:
Head: Aias Bonnet
Neck: Breeze Gorget
Body: Iga Ningi +1
Waist: Anguinus Belt
Rings: Rajas + Strength Ring(If Epona's is out of your reach)
Hands: Ninja Tekko +1
Legs: Byakko's Haidate/Usukane Hizayoroi
Feet: Iga Kyahan +1 (or 2)

To answer Nattack, the WS gorgets will always help but I assume you wonder at what point does stacking a stat defeat it. First you have to not need the accuracy inherent in the WS Gorget. Second the stat you add has to be worth more than the addition of the .1 to total FTP (as a comparison).

If your WS's total FTP is 2.0, and your gorget adds .1, you've increased your ftp by 2.1(the total with gorget) divided by 2 (your total without) equals 5%.

Whereas you equip a neckpiece with Stat +5, and your WS Mod for that stat is 30%. Your bonus to the base damage value would come down to 5 multiplied by 30% multiplied by the alpha value (inherent in every WS Mod calculation) of .85. This means your Stat +5 is worth 1.275 (5*.85*.3). 1.275 doesn't seem like much does it. If your previous WS Mod value was 40, adding 1.275 is going to increase it by:

41.275 / 40 = 1.03 (or 3%).

At first glance your going to say, well heck yes the gorget wins. It comes down to weather or not the accuracy on the gorget is going to cap your accuracy out, as well as if the Stat doesn't carry any extra bonuses like STR to attack.

So compare the INCREASES to each other. The damage formula is all multiplicative, so the biggest changes to each portion is going to win out. You increase one portion by 5% (the gorget) and compare it to the stat increase portion of 3% and you can see the 5% is going to multiply into something bigger. Better damage!

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Een

There isn't a priority over one another as far as STR and DEX. They are BOTH 30% multipliers.

But if you wanted to put one over the other, DEX > STR since Jin is a Critical hit rate WS, Dex is what decides your Critical hit rate, ACC, AND its a 30% multiplier.

And, if you wanted to prioritize them in order its Katana skill>Critical Hit rate>STR&DEX are equals@30%modifiers > Attack is last really...

Merit that Katana skill, make sure it's capped, cap critical hit rate and cap both str and dex in merits equally...the multipliers make them equal. I've broke 2500..do it pretty constantly with only a few pieces of IGA+2 gear and then the remainder of other gear. Especially in Abyssea I break 2500.

At 75 in a burn pt before Abyssea, I did 2123 Blade: Jin with my old school set up. Basically everything listed below if you take the Iga out of the list. Max Katana, Critical Hit rate, Fudo off hand

Main: Senji Offhand: Kamome
Head: Optical Hat forever, just for the ACC, but there are other helms out now...Iga+1 and Iga+2 is best tho.
Body: Kirin's Osode til IGA+
Hands: Ochimusha Kote til IGA+
Legs: Byakko's Haidate til IGA+
Feet: Rutter Sabatons or if your Hume, level 60 RSE feet. til IGA+
Waist: Warwolf Belt
Neck: Chivalrous chain is acceptable, helps with ACC (Gave up on the WS gorget, doesn't seem to really help anymore.) But for max damage, and this is MY opinion, use the Katana Skill Gorget.
Back:Cuchulain's Mantle if you can afford it, Cerb mantle is good enough, or Commander's +3 str dex agi
Rings: I use 1 Flame and 1 Breeze or whatever gives +5 dex, I forget. Plan to get +7 rings when prices lower. 1 STR 1 DEX
Earrings: I do have 2 +2 Dex earrings but I was able to afford it back in the day because of my Smithing skill..was able to make some HQ gear for a 100+3 GS'er...not recommended to go broke over tho. Minuet earring and whatever else is suitable for WS macro.

I have max Katana Skill, I'd suggest the katana skill gorget over the WS dmg Gorget anyday IMO. I think those WS gorgets are broke now.

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No to be insensitive, but take most of the above post with a grain of salt. That is far from an ideal Jin set, and I believe the priorities are off as well. If you want something fairly easily obtainable, the following should suffice:

Main: Hochomasamune (Oirandori is also fine)
Sub: Kamome
Ammo: Qirmiz Tathlum
Head: Aias Bonnet is ideal here, Varangian Helm and Iga+2 are okay if you don't have it and Varangian is not hard to get
Neck: Gorget. Gorget. Gorget.
Ears: Brutal Earring, first and foremost. Either a +6/7 Attack or +2/3 Str earring work in the second slot.
Body: Iga+2 is ideal, but Loki's Kaftan is an easy second and destroys other pieces
Hands: Heafoc Mitts
Rings: Rajas, Rajas, Rajas. Second slot: Epona's if you have it, Flame or other STR ring if you don't
Back: Atheling Mantle. Cavaros is decent but *useless if you are using Loki's as you will be capped on Crit damage already*
Waist: Elemental Belt, Warwolf, or Anguinus is roughly that order
Legs: Byakko's Haidate is a solid piece here
Feet: Rutter Sabatons are also fine until Iga+1/2

When you are in Abyssea, using Razed Ruins, *Adding Additional DEX Will Not Affect Your Critical Hit Rate*, because your dDex is already capped on just about everything from RR and Cruor buffs. That's important to know, and why a lot of these pieces (such as Heafoc Mitts) are ideal despite having no Dex or even -Dex.

Good point on Verangian Helm and Haefoc Mitts, completely forgot about it. Between it and Aias you have two helmets for any conditions you could run into. Low accuracy/high accuracy/high fSTR/low pDIF.

I dont know about Heafoc mitts, they seem like an even worse Alkyoneus's bracers in disguise.

Remember the cap on the difference between your Dexterity and the Enemies Agility is 50. With Atma of the Razed Ruin, and Cruor buffs what they are these days. Dex-4 and Accuracy -8 means nothing. The accuracy you gain from all the Dexterity in the two aforementioned buffs largely counter the negatives on those gloves.

Example: Cruor Buffs + the Atma can net you upwards of easily 70 DEX extra. Which is also 35 extra accuracy out of nowhere. -4 and -8 aren't that big of a deal.

I don't know, Seems like a sidegrade to Ninja Tekko +1 to me.

They are a bit of a sidegrade. Technically they are better. But so marginally, I don't even think 'by a hair' is a fair description.

Heafox mitts are +3.5 attack, and -1WSC compaired to af1+1 gloves, I would not say that is better.
Personally I say af2 is best at night, and bandomusha best in the day(unless you have very high attack compared to the mob defense, then af1+1 is best)

I also think you guys are overlooking centaurus earring (the +10 attack one) I would use that over any +stat earring currently available to ninja simply because we still have 10 levels to go, and SE will probably add something better so they will end up just being a waste of gil.

Outside abyssea I would use iga cape (5dex crit rate +3%) also.
Leonine mask also has crit rate+3%, I use it for my outside abyssea blade hi build, but I dunno if I would use it for jin, just pointing out that it is there.

Head: Aias
Neck: Breeze Gorget
Ear: Brutal/Aesir
Body: Iga+1
Hands: Ninja +1
Ring: Rajas/Spiral (Epona)
Back: Amemet+1 (Atheling)
Waist: Thunder belt/Anguinus
Legs: Byakko
Feet: Iga+2

items in brackets are what i think would be better

This is my Jin set and with Hochomasamune/Kamome and RR/GH/Apoc I average 3k-3.5k Jins with spikes of up to 4900-5k (in abyssea). No katana merits, 5/5 STR merits, Elvaan.

Ammo: Qirmiz Tathlum
Head: Aias Bonnet
Body: Loki's Kaftan
Hands: Ochimusha Kote (These will most likely be better than AF3+1/2 because your attack isn't going to be capped)
Legs: Byakko's Haidate
Feet: Iga Kyahan +2
Neck: Breeze Gorget
Waist: Warwolf Belt (Don't have breeze/thunder or anguinus yet.)
Back: Atheling Mantle (Again, not gonna be attack capped in most situations)
Ring1: Vulcan's Ring (or +7 or Strigoi works as well. Epona's as well if you have it (in abyssea).)
Ring2: Rajas Ring (Duh)
Ear1: Brutal Earring
Ear2: Centaurus Earring

Don't listen to that idiot on the last page saying to ws in Ohat or some other garbage, he's retarded.

My Blade: Jin setup -- yes, I still like using it despite my new options.
Main: Kannagi (85)
Sub: Kamome
Head: Anwig Salade (STR+4, WS accuracy +15 / DEX+4 Crit damage +2%)
Body: Iga Ningi +2
Neck: Thunder Gorget
Hands: Ninja Tekko +1 / Koga Tekko +1
Waist: Thunder Belt
Legs: Uzukane Hizayoroi
Feet: Usukane Sune-ate
Back: Cerberus Mantle +1
Rings: Epona's Ring, Rajas Ring
Ear: Triumph Earring, Brutal Earring
Ammo: Qirmiz Tathlum

I like gearing for general use and I'm kind of dead set in my old ways (NIN since 07) - Katana Merits 8/8, Crit hit rate 4/4, STR 5/5. I've always seen using Osode as a nono since Jin is a multi-hit, so prior to using Iga body, it was Hauby +1. From my experience old bodies for WS went Hauby NQ < Koga body < Hauby +1. So it seems a natural progression to go to Iga body +1/+2. I haven't been able to test with Loki's yet (Turul is being a stingy whore; 0/5 with Blue !! and TH7~8), but even if I had it, I'd still probably use STR/DEX/ATK bodies and leave Kaftan for Blade: Hi.

Older pieces that were upgraded somewhere along the lines were: okotes before I had AF+1, Warwolf before WS belt, Byakko's Haidate before Usupants, (Byakko's Haidate sadly has no more use for my NIN and has been relegated to shadow casting macro for my SAM), Rutter's before Usufeet, STR 5~6 Ring before Eponas, Shura head before AMK hat (Aias bonnet is a really great piece if you can get your hands on one, but I only use mine on my BLU because of the augments on my moogle cap) and NQ Cerb before I overpaid for an HQ....T_T I don't see why people still use Amemet though. Forager's are 20k on my server, cerb mantles are 60k ish. I prefer those because of the enmity.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by ThaiChi

My Blade: Jin setup -- yes, I still like using it despite my new options....

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Once I got my Kannagi I never went back to Jin. Ha ha. I'm surprised you still use it.

You should definitely change the augments on your moogle cap. DEX+4 crit damage +2% > AGI+4 weaponskill damage +2%.

Also, I dunno why we have 2 Blade: Jin threads.

Mojo do you know when the 2% is added to the damage portion? Does it work in the same manner as Overwhelm?

I don't know if it's stacked with Overwhelm, but it does work in a similar fashion (minus the positioning requirement) and is thus better than crit damage +2% in many ways.

I considered making the AMK head to dex/agi, but the only reason I didn't was because I also use it on my BLU, for first spells, I'm a Galka so switching from homam to full damage stat gear ultimately can cost me up to 200 something mp for my first spell x.x Salade has mp on it. so its rather useful. But that's a topic for another forum lol.

I still use Jin from time to time outside of abyssea, I get those random misses where I'll land a 200-500 Hi and I feel like I should redeem myself with trusty Blade: Jin. :) But yeah like you Langly, Blade: Hi is my favored now.

My MKE head is STR4 WSacc15 and AGI4 WSDmg 2%, and is what I use for Blade: Hi, as well as on my PUP MNK and COR. I was just never quite sure WHEN the 2% was applied within the equation, and have never bothered to check.

It was a bit confusing when you said:

Quote:

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DEX+4 crit damage +2% > AGI+4 weaponskill damage +2%.

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I suppose the greater than sign was more of an arrow than a 'this is bigger than this' signifier.

Yeah, an arrow is what I meant.

OK everyone thanks for all the input, you have answered quite a few of my questions and gave me some new idea's. ONly draw back i have right now is that i do not have a abyssea ls or even enough friend's (that are interested in getting ninja stuff) to help with some of the NM's, So i suppose i will see if i can solo a few of them and for the other maybe i will get lucky and get a japanese pt (that is the only reason i got the RR atma) that just happens to not what something i need. Still working on CoP but i am on the last part of "When angels fall" so i am hoping that will be one ring i will have under my belt soon.

Hochomasumune
Kamome
Quirim tahlum
Anslag anwig
Breeze gorget
Iga Mizamaki
Supponpani
Loki Kaftan
Iga Tekkos +2
Epona's Ring
Rajas Ring
Aetherling Mantle
Breeze belt
Byyako Haidate
Iga Kyahan +2

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Mookie

Iga Mizamaki
Supponpani

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Please tell me you're joking with us on the earrings. Brutal, Aesir, Hollow - good earring choices. Maybe a STR+2 earring or best Atk ear you can get if you don't have those.

Here's my question: people who don't have Byakko's... Iga+1 versus Tumbler Trunks, which wins? I've been TPing in Iga+1 (or Ocelot for evasion), and WSing in Tumbler. Thoughts?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Anza

Here's my question: people who don't have Byakko's...

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Should work on getting them, a NIN/DNC can easily solo everything up to and including Byakko. If you are good you could even buy remedies and just sub WAR. Go NIN/WAR + WHM mule for an easy time.

While working on them, use Tumbler trunks.

And since this thread is apparently still going......
Fun new facts! They upped the cap on +critical hit damage to 100% instead of the old 50%. If nothing else, this means you should get your moogle hat to be 4 AGL 2% WS damage, 4 DEX 2% Crit damage whether you're using blade jin or hi. (which means I have to redo mine =| )

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Mookie

Breeze gorget
Iga Mizamaki
Supponpani
Breeze belt

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I would replace these pieces with:
Kubira bead necklace (STR/DEX +4, 15000 ampule einherjar item)
Centaurus earring (10k~ gil, attack +10)
Brutal earring (a little expensive, but double attack +5% is the best earring for any job while tping or WSing, so it's a must have)
Warwolf belt (STR/DEX +5, 5k~ gil)

With a bit of time investment for the Kubira bead necklace/soloing ancient beast coins, and about 15k gil, you could easily improve your set by a lot, and it looks like you seem to care based on your other gear choices.
Here's what I think you should do, Northern Temenos and SW Apollyon. Each zone would net you 20-40 coins solo as NIN/DNC provided you have a little luck and manage to clear a decent chuck of them. You would also get NIN AF1+1 items, which may seem a little useless, but if nothing else, it's +6 DEX for AF1 body and you get to run faster for 6 extra minutes every hour. For N Temenos, I've never not gotten the NIN item doing the zone, I clear floor 1, 2, 3, skip 4 (just get the door open then zone up) and clear 5 before I time out usually, and I only open item chests. For the Apollyon zone, the 3rd floor chest is the box you really want to get. You want to kill the 2 fomors of the race you are on lvl 1, get the item box, then clear floor 2, then work on getting the item chest on 3, If solo I suggest bringing a stack of antidotes, they're cheap and wont cost TP to remove the poison from the boxes. You should also try and clear floor 3 with any time you have left over, floor 4 can be a bit difficult without luck on your side. If you don't have tons of ampules from doing einherjar, try shouting and finding an einherjar LS to work on it with, I doubt many exist and ones that do would probably take just about anyone who wanted to join. I run an einherjar LS, and this is how it is for me anyway =| If nothing else just make a group, You only need 2 solid melees and a rdm to clear tier 1's reliably, and you can sell the mats dropped to pay for the lamp usually. So you just need to find 2 friends who also need ampules or just like you.