We Need This Changed Devs

Quietus Needs a boost. No, and massive overhaul. The weaponskill is "extremely lackluster and trite." For the amount of work put into this weapon, we are seeing poor results. Scythe has the greatest base damage of any weapon in the GAME, so why is it we have some of the weakest and most scoffed at weaponskills. What reasoning is there to have this weaponskill so weak!?

I ask that those who agree with me that this weaponskill does need a complete adjustment, like the post. Then post your ideas about how to improve this weapons damage. If we want to get this done, we need to make it known. The amount of work does not justify the means with this weaponskill.

there is already 100000000000000 other topics saying the exact same thing. A dev will never reply, nor has anything been done about it since SE started these forums. I honestly dont think they take anything the plays say under advisment.

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Originally Posted by Kury

there is already 100000000000000 other topics saying the exact same thing. A dev will never reply, nor has anything been done about it since SE started these forums. I honestly dont think they take anything the plays say under advisment.

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That's the problem! I think everyone can agree with this weaponskill, along with others, to be lackluster. The only way to make a change is to try to get our voices heard. Honestly, for the amount of time to make this, its almost shameful to make the weapon skill this weak. My entropy can hit higher averages than quietus, which isn't in any sane way right.

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Originally Posted by Zeroe

Quietus Needs a boost. No, and massive overhaul. The weaponskill is "extremely lackluster and trite." For the amount of work put into this weapon, we are seeing poor results. Scythe has the greatest base damage of any weapon in the GAME, so why is it we have some of the weakest and most scoffed at weaponskills. What reasoning is there to have this weaponskill so weak!?

I ask that those who agree with me that this weaponskill does need a complete adjustment, like the post. Then post your ideas about how to improve this weapons damage. If we want to get this done, we need to make it known. The amount of work does not justify the means with this weaponskill.

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Thing is, you answered your own question. Scythe has the highest base damage of any weapon out there. It also has an amazingly easy 5 hit. If that's why it has a weaker ws. On the opposite end of the spectrum there's GS. One of the lowest damage 2 handers with a much harder to get 6 hit hence they give it a stronger ws. It's that balance thing SE loves talking about so much. Best advice I can give is love GS and scythe both and use them as the situation calls for.

I myself have started a Quiteus thread and got some good responses, but it never got a response from the Dev team. Ill just repost what I said with a link to it. I do wish they would at least say "Yes we are going to do something about it." Or "No we dont plan to do anything about it."

Quietus: Delivers a triple damage attack that ignores target's defense. Amount ignored varies with TP.

Mods: 40%STR, 40%MND

3.0 ignores 10% Defense at 100%
3.0 ignores 30% Defense at 200%
3.0 ignores 50% Defense at 300%

I would suggest the following changes to Quietus to make it stronger WS.

Leave the mods the same but change the ftp from 3.0 to 4.0 or even 5.0, all across the board. Or have it increase the ftp 4.0~100% 5.0~200% 6.0~300%

Change the ignores Deffense to this:
Ignores 20%~25% Defense at 100%
Ignores 30%~35% Defense at 200%
Ignores 50%~60% Defense at 300%

http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxi/th...us-adjustments.

So ...
High base damage easy 5 Hit= weak Weapon Skill numbers
And...
Low Base Damage hard 6 hit= High Weapon Skill numbers

So the logic is that if you can spam Weapon Skill a lot or at least have the potential to your Weapon Skill should suck?

Funny how Samurai bypasses those two things and still gets a Strong Weapon Skill...

Its getting really hard to say that Devs don't favor one job over the others when you think about it.....

@armangetto

just wait, SE will use those formulas and ignore def effect and add it to shoha. I wouldn't put it past them

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Originally Posted by Rohelius

So ...
High base damage easy 5 Hit= weak Weapon Skill numbers
And...
Low Base Damage hard 6 hit= High Weapon Skill numbers

So the logic is that if you can spam Weapon Skill a lot or at least have the potential to your Weapon Skill should suck?

Funny how Samurai bypasses those two things and still gets a Strong Weapon Skill...

Its getting really hard to say that Devs don't favor one job over the others when you think about it.....

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Exactly my point. Consider Great Axe and Scythe. Around the same general damage, but axe has a much, much more damaging weaponskill. Redemption should get the FTP boost mentioned in the post above.

I have no idea what the Development Bros were thinking when they decided on a value for the "defense ignored" by both Quietus and Camlann's Torment. The values end up being less substantial than the hidden "attack/cRatio/pDif/whatever" bonus on many single hit weapon skills.

Well, unless you're using the weapon skills at 300% TP. But if somebody is purposefully gathering up 300% TP for weapon skill damage purposes, I have some glass that person can sort for the good of society.

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Originally Posted by Rohelius

So ...
High base damage easy 5 Hit= weak Weapon Skill numbers
And...
Low Base Damage hard 6 hit= High Weapon Skill numbers

So the logic is that if you can spam Weapon Skill a lot or at least have the potential to your Weapon Skill should suck?

Funny how Samurai bypasses those two things and still gets a Strong Weapon Skill...

Its getting really hard to say that Devs don't favor one job over the others when you think about it.....

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Oh there's no question sam has been overly favored by the devs. I can think of no point since it's inception that it ever needed improvement. Sam is inarguable proof that this "balance" SE speaks of is a lie. Sam was already overpowered without Shoha, with Shoha it's ridiculous. If Redemption was sam usable, then perhaps you might see Quietus improved, but it's not.

Quietus isn't even by far the worst emp skill handed out. A similar thread to this was started about Cloudsplitter last year, which is far far FAR worse than Quietus could ever be. In that thread, the devs actually did give a response that after testing they deemed the WS to be more than powerful enough, so no change would take place. Testing by players showed that the only way to achieve the numbers SE showed was inside abyssea, through the use of atmas that would destroy tp gain and base DD, war or /war with Restraint active and single wielding for the fencer boost, absolutely optimal WS gear and with an ascetics active. And even after all this it reached a ceiling of about 4k, a far cry beneath most other emp WS's under similar circumstances. Outside abby on ep mobs 1.5k seems to be the ceiling if you really devote yourself to the WS.

The point of this story is just to tell you how SE gauges things. Not in a fair way. They will test Quietus with the full range of drk buffs, optimised Scarlet Delirium includes, as /war with all it's appropriate JA's active, some nice red curry, a stalwarts and god knows what else. And they will deem it sufficiently powerful. Sad story, but I doubt there are many people who will doubt the truth of it.

300% aftermath entropy. End of story. Sams, dragoons, dncs have the same problem with the ws lol...nothing new.

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Originally Posted by Fupafighter

300% aftermath entropy. End of story. Sams, dragoons, dncs have the same problem with the ws lol...nothing new.

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Tachi: Fudo was a good weapon skill for high attack situations before Tachi: Shoha existed, is probably still a good weapon skill for high attack situations, and has a much more impressive fTP at 300 TP than Quietus or Camlann's Torment if being used only for Aftermath.

Rudra's Storm can be made decent using Climactic Flourish when you want to use it for the aftermath, although I guess it's debatable if that's worth losing the TP a Reverse Flourish would provide. It also has a more impressive fTP at 300% TP than Quietus or Camlann's Torment if being used only for Aftermath.

They're definitely not "Hold onto your wieners, folks, this is going to give you a protuberance that transcends space and time!" weapon skills, but I'd rank them well above Quietus and Camlann's Torment. Sucking isn't just a binary function; something can suck a little, something can suck more than a little, something can suck moderately, or something can be Cloudsplitter.

I think I'd be confused by them making MND the modifier for the empy scythe...
I mean seriously, what are they smoking?

Its a shame cloudsplitter really got the treatment it did, and to to agree with you quietus should just use pure str, not mess with any 40% str/40% mnd. Or at least give it a FTP boost from three to 4, 5, and 6 respectively.

Eh, Guillotine had str and mnd mods also. Cross reaper too. The exclusive int mod on Entropy is far more confusing to me.

I guess I always thought of DRK being more INT-based.

Well....You have entropy. End of story.

The real issue is Scythe vs Great sword

The bullcrap about base dmg is a /sigh moment

the dps of scythe and gsd is the same (or very close)

meaning

GSD is SAME DPS + Stronger WS = winner
SCY is SAME DPS + Weaker WS = loser

O and a +1 to the situation having 1 extra hit and lower delay means that GSD benefits alot more from souleater.

I do think all the ignores def Weaponskills should be changed (can break cratio cap or just make them crit) but i still think Entropy sould be improved whether it be a stronger ftp mod or an attack bonus or a better use for DRKs mp so that any DRK can use scythe not just Emp or Relic DRKs.

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Originally Posted by Rezeak

The real issue is Scythe vs Great sword

The bullcrap about base dmg is a /sigh moment

the dps of scythe and gsd is the same (or very close)

meaning

GSD is SAME DPS + Stronger WS = winner
SCY is SAME DPS + Weaker WS = loser

O and a +1 to the situation having 1 extra hit and lower delay means that GSD benefits alot more from souleater.

I do think all the ignores def Weaponskills should be changed (can break cratio cap or just make them crit) but i still think Entropy sould be improved whether it be a stronger ftp mod or an attack bonus or a better use for DRKs mp so that any DRK can use scythe not just Emp or Relic DRKs.

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Yeah but not too long ago it was the other way around, Scyth had the better WS and GSWD got shafted on.

It will ~always~ be one way or another, lets say they buff Empy Scyth to the best WS for DRK, then the GSWD looks like the neglected one. Only other way is to make them identical in every aspect.

That being said, Empy Scyth WS needs a fricking boost. Make it a pure STR mod with an attack boost or something.

Not really

at 75

Guillotine vs Spinning Slash had an awesome balance.

Guillotine had a higher DMG potential but Spinning slash was consistent

meaning when you couldn't cap out attack and acc
spinning slash >>>> guillotine.
but when you could capp atk/acc
guillotine >>>> spinning slash.

Honestly Entropy should have a atk/acc bonus so that when DRK can't cap out attack it wrecks mobs.

and imo Quietus should be a little weaker than entropy(after they are both buffed) but the aftermath and skillchain properties should be the reason you use it. (imo it does need a boost to be at least at the same lvl as torcleaver.

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Originally Posted by Rezeak

Not really

at 75

Guillotine vs Spinning Slash had an awesome balance.

Guillotine had a higher DMG potential but Spinning slash was consistent

meaning when you couldn't cap out attack and acc
spinning slash >>>> guillotine.
but when you could capp atk/acc
guillotine >>>> spinning slash.

Honestly Entropy should have a atk/acc bonus so that when DRK can't cap out attack it wrecks mobs.

and imo Quietus should be a little weaker than entropy(after they are both buffed) but the aftermath and skillchain properties should be the reason you use it. (imo it does need a boost to be at least at the same lvl as torcleaver.

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Quietus is only useful now because of its skillchain properties. On average, entropy hits higher damage. There is no reason why this weaponskill needs to be weaker, its already one of the least built empyreans in the game. It should be balanced with torcleaver, like you stated, but not weaker than entropy.

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Originally Posted by Zeroe

Quietus is only useful now because of its skillchain properties. On average, entropy hits higher damage. There is no reason why this weaponskill needs to be weaker, its already one of the least built empyreans in the game. It should be balanced with torcleaver, like you stated, but not weaker than entropy.

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But the thing is, there's barely a reason to use Torcleaver these days either. It, like Quietus and several other empy ws's has more or less been shown up by the new merit ws. Caladbolg isn't really worth having any more than Redemption is these days, the OaT GS seems to be the way to go these days. And that makes me a little sad. I rather like my giant purple sword.

I too would like to see Quietus get changed, given Scythe's one of the "harder" empyreans.

@GS

Honestly it's easier to use OAT GS or 480 delay weapons in general (Hoarfrost Blade, Gram, Borealis, etc). The main deal breaker being the extra delay, making it an easier x-hit. 430 takes effort (not that bad, just takes effort, and if you're one with the new Phorcys/Rheic+3 gear, it's easier than ever).

Basically if you're going to spam Resolution Caladbolg isn't even worth the time. Emps rely on their WS, much like mythic. Resolution is so much stronger than Torcleaver (most of the time) that even a Lv90 Caladbolg isn't worth it. 95 starts to bring it more use again, but who's going to do a level 95 Caladbolg when they could do a level 95 Ragnarok instead and have it cost less? The differences with the lv99 weapons put Ragnarok even further ahead.

tl;dr: Neither empyrean for DRK is really worth making. The WS's both could use a buff. Saddens me in a way as I enjoyed having Caladbolg.

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Originally Posted by Calamity

But the thing is, there's barely a reason to use Torcleaver these days either. It, like Quietus and several other empy ws's has more or less been shown up by the new merit ws. Caladbolg isn't really worth having any more than Redemption is these days, the OaT GS seems to be the way to go these days. And that makes me a little sad. I rather like my giant purple sword.

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Pretty much this. Its not just Scythe but a large group of Empyrean weapons just aint worth it because its easier to get a level 99 weapon OAT or STR magian etc and spam the new merit WS's, (Presuming you only take your Empy to 85/ 90).

Entropy beats Quietus
Stardiver thrashes Camlanns
Resolution beats Torcleaver
Ruinator destroys Cloudsplitter
Exenator (or whatever) beats Rudra's Storm (may be wrong here but thats what I gather from LS opinions)

Quietus / Camlanns and Cloudsplitter stand out to me as ones which need a buff more than others, i fully agree there, but yeah there are a lot of Empy WS's weaker than their merit WS's.

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Originally Posted by Rezeak

Not really

at 75

Guillotine vs Spinning Slash had an awesome balance.

Guillotine had a higher DMG potential but Spinning slash was consistent

meaning when you couldn't cap out attack and acc
spinning slash >>>> guillotine.
but when you could capp atk/acc
guillotine >>>> spinning slash.

Honestly Entropy should have a atk/acc bonus so that when DRK can't cap out attack it wrecks mobs.

and imo Quietus should be a little weaker than entropy(after they are both buffed) but the aftermath and skillchain properties should be the reason you use it. (imo it does need a boost to be at least at the same lvl as torcleaver.

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Prior to the level cap raise that wasn't what DRKs would talk about. It was Scyth or GTFO, as evidence by the number of Apocs vs Ragnaroks. There was no reason to use GSWD once the days of /THF SC died out on HNMs, basically anything past 2004/2005. We're talking DRK, attack isn't exactly a problem. Right now Resolution is a much better WS then any of the scyth WS which is sad. The empy WS needs fixed, heck the brand new lv 99 scyth WS needs it's mod changed from lol-INT to STR.

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Originally Posted by Fredjan

Basically if you're going to spam Resolution Caladbolg isn't even worth the time. Emps rely on their WS, much like mythic. Resolution is so much stronger than Torcleaver (most of the time) that even a Lv90 Caladbolg isn't worth it. 95 starts to bring it more use again, but who's going to do a level 95 Caladbolg when they could do a level 95 Ragnarok instead and have it cost less? The differences with the lv99 weapons put Ragnarok even further ahead.

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The same holds true for Scythe really. If you only plan on taking it up to 90 that's 1 thing, but if you really wanna consider taking it to 95 You're much better off making Apoc. I know some of you are thinking "But there are suddenly so many apocs out there! I wanna be different! But there's a really good reason there are so many. Apoc is just game changing for a drk in a way that very few relic/emp/mythics are.

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Originally Posted by Calamity

The same holds true for Scythe really. If you only plan on taking it up to 90 that's 1 thing, but if you really wanna consider taking it to 95 You're much better off making Apoc. I know some of you are thinking "But there are suddenly so many apocs out there! I wanna be different! But there's a really good reason there are so many. Apoc is just game changing for a drk in a way that very few relic/emp/mythics are.

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Indeed, I have Apoc as well. May not be the best damaging weapon on paper but I got it for the utility and would definitely recommend it to any DRK wanting a relic and I've found Catastrophe to perform pretty well after the level 90 version (only have 95).

Agreed, but building a relic takes much more time and energy than emps. I would like to see quietus have a damage boost just like apoc did.

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Originally Posted by Zeroe

Agreed, but building a relic takes much more time and energy than emps. I would like to see quietus have a damage boost just like apoc did.

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This is only true if you only plan on building a level 90 emp. If you plan on taking it to level 95 you'll find it taking more gil than making a relic

It's quiet simple. Samurai represents Japan, Dark Knight represents the western world, thus as long as Japan runs the show in this game, Samurai will always rule the day.

If you want a response from the Dev team, you have to translate it into Japanese and post it in their forums

/shrug

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Originally Posted by Babekeke

If you want a response from the Dev team, you have to translate it into Japanese and post it in their forums

/shrug

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LOL I tried... google translate didn't work out so well with the JP base.

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Originally Posted by saevel

Prior to the level cap raise that wasn't what DRKs would talk about. It was Scyth or GTFO, as evidence by the number of Apocs vs Ragnaroks. There was no reason to use GSWD once the days of /THF SC died out on HNMs, basically anything past 2004/2005. We're talking DRK, attack isn't exactly a problem. Right now Resolution is a much better WS then any of the scyth WS which is sad. The empy WS needs fixed, heck the brand new lv 99 scyth WS needs it's mod changed from lol-INT to STR.

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@ 75

Apoc were made cause the HASTE aftermath was an insane boost back then and you could heal your self with it.

Ragna was basically Subduer +1 (1 more DMG and pretty much the same crit rate)

Honestly Ragnarok was a fashion statment more than trying to be the best DRK (i still would of liked Ragnarok back then cause i like GSD)

Ragna are made NOW cause the Occ does 2.5 DMG procs more often and the acc + dmg + Resoluition is the best setup for DRK (minus mythic)

Yes DRK/THF died out w/ /SAM

but Great sword was easily the best weapon for alot of harder stuff like JoL, Kirin, sea/sky gods some ZNM stuff and the scythe or GTFO stuff ur on about was when we killed birds for hrs on end.

Ragnarok has also shown the highest growth of relics. Back at 75 it was one of the weakest relics, but after all the updates, it's raised itself up to being the highest raw dps weapon in the game (this is of course not counting ranged/ammo combinations). So really it's just a much much more appealing weapon than it once was