Guard Skill.......

I have to say this cause this has been bugging me. Why hasn't SE done anything to adjust guarding skill? Even when using either food(heard it doesn't work but idk) or the earring & ring it still skillup like crap to the point in saying, "What gives?". Unless it have game breaking benefits(exaggeration lol) they need to do something about it cause it's being neglected....I could be wrong but if anyone have suggestions feel free to comment.

after heavy testing it has come to the attention of the dev team that monks with guard skill above 300 have a chance of it actually procing , due to this we will be adjusting guard to lower your tp with successful procs.

from my exerience even making train of mandies doesnt not work that well anymore. back at level 75 and was getting 2-3 skill per 30min with 4 mandy on me, last time i tried in A-altepa i got 0.5 in 30mn with like 15 mandy on me lol. guard is useless anyway i dont care anymore.

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Originally Posted by Monchat

from my exerience even making train of mandies doesnt not work that well anymore. back at level 75 and was getting 2-3 skill per 30min with 4 mandy on me, last time i tried in A-altepa i got 0.5 in 30mn with like 15 mandy on me lol. guard is useless anyway i dont care anymore.

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Leveling guard skill is useless when mnk is fighting anything that matters (i.e., above T).

AFAIK, guard is floored to 5%, and capped skill will not get you above 5% procs on anything above T, certainly not at VT and above, so except for making EP farming easier (on mobs that you will evade or counter anyway) who cares.

Hmm so unless guard is really useful against V-IT mobs and proc frequently depending on skill lvl it's pretty much useless? Now I feel it really is neglected lol. What's the point in having it if it's not useful to begin with?

umm i had capped guard at 75 cap >_> i have to completely dissagree with your statement drstrangelove... i used to guard a whole hell of alot more VS VT-IT when over cap >_>

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Originally Posted by DrStrangelove

Leveling guard skill is useless when mnk is fighting anything that matters (i.e., above T).

AFAIK, guard is floored to 5%, and capped skill will not get you above 5% procs on anything above T, certainly not at VT and above, so except for making EP farming easier (on mobs that you will evade or counter anyway) who cares.

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^ Accurate. Verified by many other monks on multiple forums.

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umm i had capped guard at 75 cap >_> i have to completely dissagree with your statement drstrangelove... i used to guard a whole hell of alot more VS VT-IT when over cap >_>

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^ Poppycock. Anecdotal claim based on unspecified conditions.

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Originally Posted by hideka

umm i had capped guard at 75 cap >_> i have to completely dissagree with your statement drstrangelove... i used to guard a whole hell of alot more VS VT-IT when over cap >_>

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SE broke guard proc rate when raised lvl cap.

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Originally Posted by hideka

umm i had capped guard at 75 cap >_> i have to completely dissagree with your statement drstrangelove... i used to guard a whole hell of alot more VS VT-IT when over cap >_>

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Got to love people who just randomly post garbage with no evidence.

I found that when skilling guard, targeting level appropriate mobs worked best. You're not going to be able brute force your way through guard like you can with the other defensive skills on mandies in Altepa. Well you can but it's going to take a hell of a lot longer. I used the skillup ring, appropriate skillup food, and as much guard skill + gear and evasion - gear that I could put together.

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Originally Posted by DrStrangelove

Leveling guard skill is useless when mnk is fighting anything that matters (i.e., above T).

AFAIK, guard is floored to 5%, and capped skill will not get you above 5% procs on anything above T, certainly not at VT and above, so except for making EP farming easier (on mobs that you will evade or counter anyway) who cares.

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If this is true (it kinda is) then why didn't the developers do anything to make raise within reason? I fight skill worthy stuff hours/days at a time and I'm lucky to get 0.5 skill up. I capped it at 75. Now It's 296 without gear. Go figure. :confused:

Proc rate is exactly the same as parrying (caps at 5%), and exactly like parrying it can also proc on TP moves from mobs, possibly completely nullifying moves like Spike Flail.

In regards to the rate of skill increases, we feel that there were positive effects from the adjustments made in the Feb. 2011 version update and currently have no plans to increase them further.

However, in regards to those difficult to increase skills such as guard and parry, we are planning to revamp them. The main reason why these skills are so hard to increase is due to the fact that skill increases only occur when the effect is elicited, so compared to evasion skill; the chances to increase these are lower.

With this said, we will be making adjustments so that it is possible to receive skill increases without parry or guard activation similar to evasion.

One idea I'd like to see is for Counters to count toward Guarding skill since both are essentially the same defense, one stopping an attack partially and the other fully stopping an attack.

And this will be implemented conveniently just as I cap my Parrying skill. ^^;

Indeed.

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Originally Posted by Camate

In regards to the rate of skill increases, we feel that there were positive effects from the adjustments made in the Feb. 2011 version update and currently have no plans to increase them further.

With this said, we will be making adjustments so that it is possible to receive skill increases without parry or guard activation similar to evasion.

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you feel wrong good sir... there WERE positive increases--to skills that can be used offensively. All of the defensive skills however only gain the benefit of food or the prouse ring or the GoV prowess, and the rates are nowhere near the bump that offensive skills (or in the case of healing magic, offensively curing undead) receive. The problem is, if high parry skill was in fact of part of-say-thief's design we simply aren't seeing it because not that many have gotten anywhere near it. to again use our thief as an example, they really didn't "tank" all that much until Abyssea and even if tanking IS working there it's because of the EVA-which block parry from even getting a chance to proc, let alone skill. As things currently stand, about the only way to skill this stuff is to stack all the eva down gear you can find and spam GoV. Let's face it, finding gear to knock eva down about 250 skill so that parry even has a CHANCE simply isn't going to happen.

Idea, an off switch in the combat skill menu so the skill can be blocked and hopefully the other stuff can get a chance to work. Yes, I know that's a completely unreasonable suggestion, but the way things currently work what other options are there? Wait. Time sink. I forgot. Solo tank (meaning ignore my pet jobs) 92,000 high acc/attack speed mobs in a row and hope you get lucky. Um... I don't like playing this game THAT much that I would bother.

BTW, I didn't pull that 92k outta my hat, I been playing 10 years-mostly solo-with a TON of kills and my parry is about 220; figuring my current EVA rate... yeah, 92k sounds about right.

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Originally Posted by Camate

In regards to the rate of skill increases, we feel that there were positive effects from the adjustments made in the Feb. 2011 version update and currently have no plans to increase them further.

However, in regards to those difficult to increase skills such as guard and parry, we are planning to revamp them. The main reason why these skills are so hard to increase is due to the fact that skill increases only occur when the effect is elicited, so compared to evasion skill; the chances to increase these are lower.

With this said, we will be making adjustments so that it is possible to receive skill increases without parry or guard activation similar to evasion.

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wow now i have an excuse to play monk again. i cried for a month after i capped guard skilll the week before you guys announced cap increase.

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Originally Posted by Camate

In regards to the rate of skill increases, we feel that there were positive effects from the adjustments made in the Feb. 2011 version update and currently have no plans to increase them further.

However, in regards to those difficult to increase skills such as guard and parry, we are planning to revamp them. The main reason why these skills are so hard to increase is due to the fact that skill increases only occur when the effect is elicited, so compared to evasion skill; the chances to increase these are lower.

With this said, we will be making adjustments so that it is possible to receive skill increases without parry or guard activation similar to evasion.

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For your reference Camate, pass this allong to the dev team too. I have pulled every, yes every single fear doug in abyssea altep that are near flux 6. Taken them to a wall so they clump together, ensuring that I am facing every single one of them. And proceeded to attack. After killing all of them I gained no guard skill ups what so ever. Which should be statistically impossible. Further more, I reapeated this another 7 times. All without any guard skill gain. Something with it is still broken.

I haven't got any Guarding job up (yet), but for Parrying, I have been getting it up a lot by basically full-timing the Prouesse Ring, and getting more monsters than necessary at me when possible. Issekigan obviously helps greatly, too, but I would certainly appreciate some more help before I have the skill at its limits.

Sometimes I stack up the gear with Parrying skill just to get some more chances of it activating, and I think with all the gear I carry with me these days, I get it around 380~ and with Issekigan, it activates a lot then. Can't wait for having the skill maximised (I've tried that on the test-server and it's niiice).

Even if they do enhance it after I have no use of it, I'd still say it's worth it just because I know it will ease the life of many a Vana'diel life.

Even though Parrying and Guarding haven't yet been really improved upon, it is certainly far away from the days at 75 when it could be very difficult indeed to get these skills up, and I already did it back then, which I don't regret, though.

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Originally Posted by Dragoy

And this will be implemented conveniently just as I cap my Parrying skill. ^^;

Indeed.

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Capped Parry last week. /sigh
At least I know to hold off on Guard for now.

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Originally Posted by Camate

With this said, we will be making adjustments so that it is possible to receive skill increases without parry or guard activation similar to evasion.

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That, good sir, is most excellent news. Thanks for that. Now I can stop skilling Guard on my MNK and continue to (hopefully) better results when they implement that.

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Originally Posted by Camate

In regards to the rate of skill increases, we feel that there were positive effects from the adjustments made in the Feb. 2011 version update and currently have no plans to increase them further.

However, in regards to those difficult to increase skills such as guard and parry, we are planning to revamp them. The main reason why these skills are so hard to increase is due to the fact that skill increases only occur when the effect is elicited, so compared to evasion skill; the chances to increase these are lower.

With this said, we will be making adjustments so that it is possible to receive skill increases without parry or guard activation similar to evasion.

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I'm working on Parrying for my Ninja for ages... I occur to parry a f...in lot and still get barely able to get 1 point per day if isnt week sometime...

I always was partial to the idea of releasing new pieces of armor that change the way parrying and guarding work for the purpose of skilling up. For parrying, an armor piece that greatly increases the chance to parry, but at the cost of taking damage instead of negating it. For guarding, same thing, but maybe reduce no damage instead of a portion of damage that guarding does now.

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Originally Posted by Camate

In regards to the rate of skill increases, we feel that there were positive effects from the adjustments made in the Feb. 2011 version update and currently have no plans to increase them further.

However, in regards to those difficult to increase skills such as guard and parry, we are planning to revamp them. The main reason why these skills are so hard to increase is due to the fact that skill increases only occur when the effect is elicited, so compared to evasion skill; the chances to increase these are lower.

With this said, we will be making adjustments so that it is possible to receive skill increases without parry or guard activation similar to evasion.

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1) I have played monk since 2005...and I play routinely, tanking often due to pulling hate, but obviously also tanking normally in dynamis or abyssea in farming parties and xp parties. Regardless, I use monk regularly and often.

2) In January of 2009, my guard skill was 138. That's about 34 levels per YEAR.

3) In January of 2010, my guard skill was 161. That's 23 levels in 1 year.

4) Today, my guard skill is 178. That's 17 levels in over 1 year.

I'm unsure who thinks this was improved or who thinks it now is working as intended.

It should not take 10-12 years to cap a skill.

We should not have to pull 20 mobs, get a rdm to help us and wear -evasion gear to cap a skill.

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Originally Posted by DrStrangelove

1) I have played monk since 2005...and I play routinely, tanking often due to pulling hate, but obviously also tanking normally in dynamis or abyssea in farming parties and xp parties. Regardless, I use monk regularly and often.

2) In January of 2009, my guard skill was 138. That's about 34 levels per YEAR.

3) In January of 2010, my guard skill was 161. That's 23 levels in 1 year.

4) Today, my guard skill is 178. That's 17 levels in over 1 year.

I'm unsure who thinks this was improved or who thinks it now is working as intended.

It should not take 10-12 years to cap a skill.

We should not have to pull 20 mobs, get a rdm to help us and wear -evasion gear to cap a skill.

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Use (the correct) skill up food in abyssea with regen atmas, sub DNC for waltzes or war and full-time defender, and don't use counterstance. No idea why you feel you need a rdm.

P.S. I got 3 levels in a day soloing the T2 avatar VNMs without food, and with counterstance up full time.

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Originally Posted by Babekeke

Use (the correct) skill up food in abyssea with regen atmas, sub DNC for waltzes or war and full-time defender, and don't use counterstance. No idea why you feel you need a rdm.

P.S. I got 3 levels in a day soloing the T2 avatar VNMs without food, and with counterstance up full time.

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I'm sorry, but you seem to have missed the point.

I get 8-10+ skill levels on most weapons in 30 minutes pulling one mob at a time with no special atma needs in or outside of abyssea. Blm get skill ups by using their magic normally in normal LS events. Whm get skill ups doing what they normally do.

Mnks should not have to "go to abyssea", "use the correct food", "use regen atmas", "sub dnc or use defender" for a "day to get 3 whole levels."

Please stop trying to create a poor solution to what should not be a problem. Skilling up in the game should occur overtime by using the job the way it was designed to be used, not by creating a time-sink method to obtain a mediocre (at best) job skill.

This is guard....it's not as if it is a good skill in most situations that a mnk is in...it's not. But it's insane that it takes years to play mnk and still not have it 50% capped UNLESS we are willing to time-sink ourselves or use contrived tanking methods with regen atmas, skill-up food, phalanx 2, 20+ mobs, while not using basic JAs like counterstance, impetus or dodge, etc.

And just so it's not missed, my skill is 178 AFTER spending around 50 hours in various places specifically leveling it using these methods (including some time after the 2011 'fix'.)

For comparison, my skill level on staff, a weapon I have never tried to skill up and have only ever used while playing sparingly on blm, is 150, a mere difference of 28 skills.

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Originally Posted by Babekeke

Use (the correct) skill up food in abyssea with regen atmas, sub DNC for waltzes or war and full-time defender, and don't use counterstance. No idea why you feel you need a rdm.

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How many mandies can you take this way? Because with a RDM you can take all of them. That's why he wants one.

If SE was going to do this (make guard almost useless while being unable to skill up in any reasonable way), it should have been made a job trait with a flat 15-20% proc rate, preferably on all physical attacks, not corrected for level differences, or if so, such that a level 20 or less difference leaves it unaffected.

Doing that would not break the game: most if not all +guard skill items in the game are not worth wearing to increase the native skill level, while guard skill itself when it procs does -on average- modest damage reduction. 20% x a modest damage reduction is -on average- less than many individual pieces of gear give any melee.

Of course, no one is going to do this...so fixing skill so it levels much faster in 'normal' use is preferable.

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Originally Posted by DrStrangelove

1) I have played monk since 2005...and I play routinely, tanking often due to pulling hate, but obviously also tanking normally in dynamis or abyssea in farming parties and xp parties. Regardless, I use monk regularly and often.

2) In January of 2009, my guard skill was 138. That's about 34 levels per YEAR.

3) In January of 2010, my guard skill was 161. That's 23 levels in 1 year.

4) Today, my guard skill is 178. That's 17 levels in over 1 year.

I'm unsure who thinks this was improved or who thinks it now is working as intended.

It should not take 10-12 years to cap a skill.

We should not have to pull 20 mobs, get a rdm to help us and wear -evasion gear to cap a skill.

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remove all time spent not skilling guard!


SE already said they will turn guard/parry skill up like evasion (getting skill ups without a proc)

edit (in the post you quoted)

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Originally Posted by Camate

With this said, we will be making adjustments so that it is possible to receive skill increases without parry or guard activation similar to evasion.

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Originally Posted by Arcon

How many mandies can you take this way? Because with a RDM you can take all of them. That's why he wants one.

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And this is the diffenrence between 'want' and 'need'.

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Originally Posted by hiko

remove all time spent not skilling guard!


SE already said they will turn guard/parry skill up like evasion (getting skill ups without a proc)

edit (in the post you quoted)

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He obviously didn't read it, but it's funny watching him cry about how bad the system currently is when they already said they're changing it.

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Originally Posted by Babekeke

And this is the diffenrence between 'want' and 'need'.

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You don't "need" any mandies. You can try to cap it on EP beetles outside of Abyssea if you want, it will only take longer. There is a line between want and need, but in this game (or any game for that matter) it's almost always arbitrary and will vary wildly from person to person.

It's just awesome now started at 320 now at 385 without skill up food or special gear today already close to 400.

NVM Capped it :D


IT'S ABOUT DARN TIME!