PUP Overpowered a little?

Puppetmasters, the only job that has never been taken seriously is now getting buffed up like a roid-raging wrestler. I have never seen a job so able to kite a mob that can wipe an entire alliance before. And guess what, I have seen it! After an entire alliance wiped, including the PUP, I witnessed the PUP get up, call his walking trash can (I can not honestly call Lobo, my automaton, anything but a walking trash can), and kite the mob while everyone in the party got raised AND unweakened. While repeatedly sacrificing his automaton, he was able to buy the alliance time to readjust ourselves. I sure wish a PLD could do that, like their job description denotes. I wonder how broken the game would be if everyone realized this little flaw.

Not to mention, how badly would the job get nerfed?

I admit, PUP is VERY understated. But that falls on people not equipping the automaton. And not even improperly, just not at all.

While the job is not one of my favorites, it is incredibly overpowered and getting more so with every update. Which amazes me that there are not more PUP out there.

And no, I am not knocking the job. You just have to be honest, PUP is pretty overpowered (finally?) and it is only getting worse with each update.

a bst or a smn cant kite a mob while an ally unweak ? first news here...
Are they overpowered ? not really, like pup ;)

Anyone with or without Movementspeed gear. and /or /NIN sub can easy kite a mob around something. And dont forgett if only Automaton performs a action on a mob it stays yellow and is able to be stolen by anyone. PUP is underpowered.

1) An automaton can lock a mob, it wont stay yellow so I am not sure what awezomeos is talking about.
2) BSt and SMN can do the same thing, with smn being the best imho since their pets with ducal guard take next to no damage and bst with gear can get to -100pdt, neither of which is true about pup

Dfoley.
If only the automaton performs an action on a mob. It stays yellow.
Like when your Alliance wipes to a mean dragon and the mob goes unclaimed, you cant claim it back with your pet only.

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Originally Posted by Awezomeos

Dfoley.
If only the automaton performs an action on a mob. It stays yellow.
Like when your Alliance wipes to a mean dragon and the mob goes unclaimed, you cant claim it back with your pet only.

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if it hits melee it doesnt stay yellow. if you are talking about flash or provoke, yes.
or if dad to nuke only.

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Originally Posted by Lushipur

if it hits melee it doesnt stay yellow. if you are talking about flash or provoke, yes.
or if dad to nuke only.

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Ah ok i dindt know that , i thought even with meleeing the mob stays yellow.
Anyway i still would like be able to claim mobs with ranger automaton. or even Flashbulb.

yes ranged hits should be able too and provoke, damn its provoke!!! how can i claim a nm if it stay yellow.

however, even if yellow it have some kind of hate. so, in order to be stealed, it necessary an amount of enmity superior of the one produced by the automaton (ok, its supereasy to steal it lol).

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Originally Posted by Awezomeos

Dfoley.
If only the automaton performs an action on a mob. It stays yellow.
Like when your Alliance wipes to a mean dragon and the mob goes unclaimed, you cant claim it back with your pet only.

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Thats the problem you can, so I am not sure what you are talking about. Im pretty sure nuking, ranged attacks, and melee will all lock a mob as long as you aren't deactivating as soon the spell/attack hits.

Spells like dia wont 'claim' a mob, and automaton voke wont either but pretty much everything else does

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Originally Posted by Dfoley

Spells like dia wont 'claim' a mob, and automaton voke wont either but pretty much everything else does

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Last time I checked none of the auto's spells, abilities or ranged attacks claimed a mob ONLY it walking up to a NM and poking it does, and when it does so to a NM it kinda goes splat.

Yes Pup is alot better than it was at the release of TOAU... Most of us stuck with it even though it wasn't great performance wise on IT mobs.

Now I even have people that are Jealous of me... I have capped haste with many martial arts traits and I punch pretty fast. On Iron Clad in Altep I did 6,361 stringing pummel. I wish i had a screenshot to post, but I had filters on. I didnt know until more than half my ls did this... "O.O"

I had almost the entire area of people checking me... That was my highest so far and that was against a pretty beefy NM. I usually average between 2k and 4kish. Dont get me started how how hard my auto nukes with bliz5... All I have to say is Thankyou SE.

Ive had some jealous people complain to me about how pup is overpowered. I said. "Its not overpowered, its playing exactly as it should." A whm auto should cure like a whm. A blm auto should nuke like a BLM. A valor/SharpS should dd like any other DD. And a master, should DD like it is now. AGain... Thank you SE.

there's also the fact that while autos have gotte some serious love the PLAYER is still expected to act like a monk... with a blm's defense and evasion. A dead master takes out that great automaton DD in a hurry.

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Originally Posted by Gael

a bst or a smn cant kite a mob while an ally unweak ? first news here...
Are they overpowered ? not really, like pup ;)

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A BST or SMN gets claim on the mob. This claim will get the master killed if it was like AV.

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Originally Posted by Awezomeos

Anyone with or without Movementspeed gear. and /or /NIN sub can easy kite a mob around something. And dont forgett if only Automaton performs a action on a mob it stays yellow and is able to be stolen by anyone. PUP is underpowered.

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If you wipe the mob goes yellow so the ablility to be stolen by anyone does not factor here. No all mobs can be kited. Hince the Draw-in type mobs. /nin or Movementspeed does not help with these type of mobs as well as PUP would be.

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Originally Posted by Keiyoshi

Now I even have people that are Jealous of me... I have capped haste with many martial arts traits and I punch pretty fast. On Iron Clad in Altep I did 6,361 stringing pummel. I wish i had a screenshot to post, but I had filters on. I didnt know until more than half my ls did this... "O.O"

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That damage is most likely in it's weak window (I've fought the same NM and at certain points it will take much more dmg from attacks/spells than normal) but still quite impressive.

As far as PUP being over powered, it still has exploits that it can take advantage of (e.g. hateless nukes, hateless cures for the matter as well). I wouldn't say over powered by any stretch of the imagination, all frames do operate to do their specified tasks but without the perks of actually being the job that it's mimicking (slow nukes, prioritized healing spells not on separate timers, longer ranged delay) all which I believe to prevent any true overpowering though some could argue that it's poor AI/pet coding.

I could understand the concern for PUP being over powered if it had more aggressive JA's, but it doesn't have any abilities that actually augment the master and minimally so the maton itself. As far as updates, I am rather confused as to why PUP is receiving another update sooner than other jobs (PLD,DRK...could prob use a boost, just for abyssea's sake) and the update will only show how far SE plans to augment the job...

The biggest issues I see with PUP are accuracy. Sure, acc gear is getting insane with new post-75 gear, but PUP is being left out of the loop. I can understand not hitting as hard as other jobs, as their being multi-faceted should make them weaker, along with the automaton being stronger than the master when equipped properly. But does that mean PUPs miss far more often than other jobs? It shouldnt mean that atall. Maybe drop PUP atk and raise their accuracy so they stay balanced, but less annoyed at whiffing spams. I know people that never got the job past 10 because they were forced to overrely on their automatons to do the damage because the master couldn't hit.

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Originally Posted by KorPoni

The biggest issues I see with PUP are accuracy. Sure, acc gear is getting insane with new post-75 gear, but PUP is being left out of the loop. I can understand not hitting as hard as other jobs, as their being multi-faceted should make them weaker, along with the automaton being stronger than the master when equipped properly. But does that mean PUPs miss far more often than other jobs? It shouldnt mean that atall. Maybe drop PUP atk and raise their accuracy so they stay balanced, but less annoyed at whiffing spams. I know people that never got the job past 10 because they were forced to overrely on their automatons to do the damage because the master couldn't hit.

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ok, seriously? you migth be thinking of "a few years ago", pup has no acc issues right now, at least "until" now.

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Originally Posted by Keiyoshi

Yes Pup is alot better than it was at the release of TOAU... Most of us stuck with it even though it wasn't great performance wise on IT mobs.

Now I even have people that are Jealous of me... I have capped haste with many martial arts traits and I punch pretty fast. On Iron Clad in Altep I did 6,361 stringing pummel. I wish i had a screenshot to post, but I had filters on. I didnt know until more than half my ls did this... "O.O"

I had almost the entire area of people checking me... That was my highest so far and that was against a pretty beefy NM. I usually average between 2k and 4kish. Dont get me started how how hard my auto nukes with bliz5... All I have to say is Thankyou SE.

Ive had some jealous people complain to me about how pup is overpowered. I said. "Its not overpowered, its playing exactly as it should." A whm auto should cure like a whm. A blm auto should nuke like a BLM. A valor/SharpS should dd like any other DD. And a master, should DD like it is now. AGain... Thank you SE.

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That ironclad occasionally takes double damage during certain conditions. Still, ~3100 dmg on an NM is pretty good.

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Originally Posted by KorPoni

The biggest issues I see with PUP are accuracy. Sure, acc gear is getting insane with new post-75 gear, but PUP is being left out of the loop. I can understand not hitting as hard as other jobs, as their being multi-faceted should make them weaker, along with the automaton being stronger than the master when equipped properly. But does that mean PUPs miss far more often than other jobs? It shouldnt mean that atall. Maybe drop PUP atk and raise their accuracy so they stay balanced, but less annoyed at whiffing spams. I know people that never got the job past 10 because they were forced to overrely on their automatons to do the damage because the master couldn't hit.

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The master shouldn't have any issues with accuracy unless you're fighting highly evasive NMs or gimping it up with incorrect gear/atma like so many pups ingame. The only issue with accuracy is during lvling due to limited gear choice and the ranged/mage automaton's melee accuracy, which has been partially addressed with those 10tp pet regain fists.

As for pup being OP, it's not. Not only are the numerous positives of the job still balanced by the many inherit problems with the job (unfortunately), there also hasn't been much in the way of bandwagoning like with mnk/nin/whm. At least we're in better condition than plds and drks...

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Originally Posted by Svens

The master shouldn't have any issues with accuracy unless you're fighting highly evasive NMs or gimping it up with incorrect gear/atma like so many pups ingame. The only issue with accuracy is during lvling due to limited gear choice and the ranged/mage automaton's melee accuracy, which has been partially addressed with those 10tp pet regain fists.

As for pup being OP, it's not. Not only are the numerous positives of the job still balanced by the many inherit problems with the job (unfortunately), there also hasn't been much in the way of bandwagoning like with mnk/nin/whm. At least we're in better condition than plds and drks...

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I was meaning for levelling, but not the automaton having a lack of accuracy, just the master. But I'll agree with you on gear. Alot of people jump on the job with half-worthwhile gear, maybe 5 pieces for defense, and nothing else, and say the job is trash because the pet, which usually does fine low lvl without any buffs, is outclassing the master. I personally don't have accuracy problems (anymore, since the update increasing h2h skill) myself, but that doesn't mean people testing the waters with the job won't be too quickly discouraged to get into the job.

One thing I think about the job is its potential. It's not like other jobs where you throw on gear with the highest possible numbers, you're done. You hafta also equip the automaton to do its part, whether your healer or back-up DD. And that doesn't just include attachments, but how you use your maneuvers, and how well-skilled your automaton itself is in the category it's using. Meaning, if you have really good gear, and you're not doing too well, time to pour attention into that pet, because it's only as good as you make it.

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Originally Posted by Glamdring

there's also the fact that while autos have gotte some serious love the PLAYER is still expected to act like a monk... with a blm's defense and evasion. A dead master takes out that great automaton DD in a hurry.

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Stopping in to nitpick. Can't stand when people discount our EVA. >_>; THF and DNC are the only jobs that can get more EVA bonuses. THF with one tier, and DNC pulling ahead by +2EVA with 5/5 Closed position merits.

I don't understand the "dead master" comment. Unlike glass cannon DDs, I can usually survive just fine when a mob turns my way. :3 In fact, I've found myself EVA tanking for my shell a lot lately. And if I do die, I can just send my Dolly back into the fray to contribute while I'm getting unweakened.

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Originally Posted by Exzir

A BST or SMN gets claim on the mob. This claim will get the master killed if it was like AV.

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Because you really think that a pup can kite AV while an ally unweak ?

The only problems I see with my Automaton is that she has horrendous defense, partially mended by Deus Ex Automata. She dies easily, but sure enough I'll have her back up soon.

Otherwise she's merely an addition to my arsenal as a Puppetmaster.

pup overpowered? HA!.....HAHAHAHAHA! that's a good one! wow...out of the mouths of those who don't know the job....for one thing: a pup to be able to kite a mob takes skill...NOT ability. sure it takes "some" ability but not nearly as much as your claiming. PUP is not overpowered by any means...if anything it's underpowered. to be able to solo with that job relies solely on what sub you use. if it were "overpowered" a sub wouldn't matter in the solo equation. and there's a huge diff between kiting and tanking. any player who has at least one level 75 or 90 knows this.

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Originally Posted by Krystal

pup overpowered? HA!.....HAHAHAHAHA! that's a good one! wow...out of the mouths of those who don't know the job....for one thing: a pup to be able to kite a mob takes skill...NOT ability. sure it takes "some" ability but not nearly as much as your claiming. PUP is not overpowered by any means...if anything it's underpowered. to be able to solo with that job relies solely on what sub you use. if it were "overpowered" a sub wouldn't matter in the solo equation. and there's a huge diff between kiting and tanking. any player who has at least one level 75 or 90 knows this.

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VERY much agree

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Originally Posted by Krystal

pup overpowered? HA!.....HAHAHAHAHA! that's a good one! wow...out of the mouths of those who don't know the job....for one thing: a pup to be able to kite a mob takes skill...NOT ability. sure it takes "some" ability but not nearly as much as your claiming. PUP is not overpowered by any means...if anything it's underpowered. to be able to solo with that job relies solely on what sub you use. if it were "overpowered" a sub wouldn't matter in the solo equation. and there's a huge diff between kiting and tanking. any player who has at least one level 75 or 90 knows this.

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I agree, being a PUP is not an easy task, walk the walk and you will know. Besides I haven't spent anywhere near the amount of gil and time on one job as PUP. It requires a lot of patience to learn the job too. Take MNK and all the counter, perfect counter, counterstance WTF with that? and you claim PUP to be overpowered? Jobs that require large sacrifices should be better compensated, BLU not overpowered? but get in BLU shoes and learn ALL the spells you will hate SE and the game!

Having to rely on Nyzul Weapon Skill to be considered DD is sad. Tornado Kick is a joke. I was soloing Blufalos on my MNK while raid was killing others, I can't do that with all my jobs.

You are just boody-hurt because you lack in skills. Walk the walk before you can talk. My automation cost about 20Mil. Incredible investment.

PUP is not overpowered.

I play in an endgame LS, and we have about 4 people in the LS who enjoy (or used to enjoy) playing PUP, and I am one of those 4 people. We are never PUP for anything serious. It's a hobby. It's FFXI on hardcore mode. It's gotten to the point where I've retired PUP because SE doesn't know what PUP should be. Lately they've been all about making PUP a watered down monk with a stupid groupie that usually does more harm than good.

The one thing that sets PUP apart from other jobs is its ability to deaggro mobs, and it only works if the mob has less than 15' detection range, is not in Dynamis or Limbus (they nerfed it in those zones somehow), and has NO HATE ON ANYONE ELSE. Oh yeah, did I mention that it's a glitch that SE is likely trying to fix? The puppet tanks worse than a black mage, it damages worse than a bard(my bard has DD gear), it feeds more TP than a THF/WAR with full haste gear, it heals the wrong things, casts too infrequently to be of any use, and it hasn't seen a new attachment since it got the steam jacket which I'm guessing 80% of the people reading this have no idea what it does without reading wiki first. Even the people who do know what it does don't use the stupid thing most of the time.

I haven't even started on the downsides of PUP yet, I could fill libraries with the reasons you should never level the job. If your alliance wiped and your puppet managed to KITE (not activate, provoke, deactivate, wait 1 minute, but KITE) an NM that your whole alliance wiped to, then that PUP's talents are wasted and you are lucky to have him among you because your alliance just screwed up royally. Playing FFXI on PUP is like playing Ninja Gaiden on the hardest setting: you worked hard to get there, you waste a lot of time, and you get NOTHING out of it that you wouldn't get from playing on the easier settings.

PUP has seen more nerfs and fewer buffs than any job you've ever played. DDA was nerfed in several areas. Soulsoother used to cast nonstop like a real mage is capable of doing. Strobe light and Flashbulb used to one-shot chigoes. There was a time that Magic Mortar could do 2k damage if you spent half an hour setting it up (now SAMs can do 2k damage every 30 seconds with an empyrean weapon, but it's a miracle if magic mortar breaks 500). PUP is FFXI's whipping boy. Just get off your high horse and admit that the PUP who saved your bacon that night was a better player than you and that any job with half-decent equip and a year of experience in the game could have done the same.

I saw a BST prevent a wipe in Dynamis once, but I don't go around screaming that they're overpowered. Heck, they've been around longer, they deserve some fixing before PUP.

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Originally Posted by Gael

Because you really think that a pup can kite AV while an ally unweak ?

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To be fair, the DDA glitch allows PUP or any job with PUP as a subjob to hold AV indefinately without ever dying since his despawn timer is 3 minutes, he has 0 aggro range, and no "active" party hate. He'll regen during that time, but since AV is a zerg fight now, that fact is irrelevant.

DDA is the only uniquely useful thing about PUP, and AV + Jailer of Temperance are the only places I've seen it used. And it was a whm/pup doing the holding, not the mythical pup of doom that the OP is whining about. He clearly has yet to hear about the 64,000+ damage wildfires that corsairs are capable of.

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Originally Posted by Yinnyth

2k damage every 30 seconds

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Burattinaios.

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Originally Posted by Yinnyth

... the 64,000+ damage wildfires that corsairs ...

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Jesus titty friggen Christ? are there that many Fire MAB atmas out there?

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Originally Posted by Gael

Because you really think that a pup can kite AV while an ally unweak ?

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With 3 PUP you can Deploy Deactivate ever 20 secounds to keep pop without a sacraficer to keep getting killed.

You guys should stop to talk in theory lol

The day you will go to kill AV with 3 pup in the ally... even just 1...

You can also go with 18 pup (with blm automaton) to kill it, i'm sure it can work (no joke), but considering the popularity of Pup, our LS will never let us go with this job to a big mob like that


And just to back to the original thing, we talked about kite, not just prevent a depop of a big NM. And it was with ONE pup, because when you hold it like that, the NM can go unclaim and any other pt/ally can get it.

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Originally Posted by Yinnyth

The puppet tanks worse than a black mage, it damages worse than a bard(my bard has DD gear), it feeds more TP than a THF/WAR with full haste gear, it heals the wrong things, casts too infrequently to be of any use, and it hasn't seen a new attachment since it got the steam jacket which I'm guessing 80% of the people reading this have no idea what it does without reading wiki first. Even the people who do know what it does don't use the stupid thing most of the time.

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I'm surprised you could have played PUP so long and still claim all of this.
I'll just addend with some experience of my own:

- Valoredge is hugely underestimated. Sure it can't take hits like PLD but I've had it tank for Assaults before. With the right attachments/maneuver pattern and HQ repairs it's damn impressive. "It can't heal itself" sure, but PUPs get Automaton Oil +2. Don't complain about the price. Either use it or don't embarrass your Valoredge frame.

- The Steam Jacket is pretty good too. Conditionally. Provided the mob only provides one source of damage. That being said, it's a conditional equip, and I use it on Valoredge from time to time.

- Heals the wrong things: yeah I'll admit to that. But understand that for a party of 6, it works as its supposed to. I've had soulsoother as dedicated healer for a pt several times. But in endgame, it only makes sense that no PUP can/SHOULD replace a real WHM.

- Damage. Sharpshot is admittedly an amazing DD frame. I had my puppet close skillchains and do weaponskill damage matching the DRG and SAM (it was a colibri pt.) My typical DD frame for PT's is sharpshot and it definitely delivers.

Sorry, just had to put in my 2 cents. I know it's not as OP as it used to be (when people used to think it sucked ass) but it is in no way a massive pile of ass.