So why did my friend get banned for RMT activity if he doesn't engage in it?

Ok, I'm a big fan of cruor burn parties and a friend, that shall remain nameless at his request, was banned LM-17'ed today. Yes, I run around sometimes with people who have multiple mules out there collecting cruor and then changing them chocobo blinkers, what they do is up to them. Reason why I am posting this question is because he was not the only to get banned. So,devs, is cruor farming illegal in the game? If it is, should you not put tools to circumvent this rather than just blindly hammering people to the wall just because you suspect them of doing wrong?

In my experience people that got banned for RMT/Flee Hacking/Duping etc did RMT/Flee Hack/Dupe.

Just because you got banned, it doesn't mean it was for RMT activity. There are lots of other reasons you can get banned...

They do have tools to detect RMT activity. That's why we don't have a lot of it these days...

However, personally I think using multiple mules to multiply cruor IS abusive... They probably detected all those characters were owned by the same person.

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Originally Posted by Oscar71

Ok, I'm a big fan of cruor burn parties and a friend, that shall remain nameless at his request, was banned LM-17'ed today. Yes, I run around sometimes with people who have multiple mules out there collecting cruor and then changing them chocobo blinkers, what they do is up to them. Reason why I am posting this question is because he was not the only to get banned. So,devs, is cruor farming illegal in the game? If it is, should you not put tools to circumvent this rather than just blindly hammering people to the wall just because you suspect them of doing wrong?

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for being dumb, it's next to impossible to get banned these days

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Originally Posted by Alhanelem

However, personally I think using multiple mules to multiply cruor IS abusive... They probably detected all those characters were owned by the same person.

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If a person is paying for all of their different accounts, why shouldn't they be able to reap the rewards from it? Each separate account is treated as its own entity, regardless of how many or few people play on it.

@ the OP:
I recently had an lsmate drop from game during an itzpap farm only to find out he had been banned. It was because he had billing trouble w/ the crysta system. So don't judge about what the ban was for until your friend contacts SE about it, because it could be for numerous reasons.

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Originally Posted by Brolic

for being dumb, it's next to impossible to get banned these days

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of course not one of my inactive accounts is banned and only used it for 3 minutes

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If a person is paying for all of their different accounts, why shouldn't they be able to reap the rewards from it?

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Because it's still for one person. Why should people be able to buy a cruor multiplier for 12.95? After all, this is one of the ways RMT have been known to make money. There's only 2 reasons you'd need mules for cruor: To buy more brews, or to buy more NPCable/AHable goods with it. In the former case, I say get better at the game so you don't need brews, in the latter case, well that's a possible flag for RMT activity. Any other use of cruor doesn't necessitate bringing a bunch of mules with you. Those mules aren't doing anything, you're not even controlling them to heal you or do anything like players often do with secondary accounts, so it borders on absentee play.

I don't like the concept of buying more power- If you actually use/control those mules, it's one thing, but when they aren't there for any purpose except to multiply the cruor you recieve in abyssea, its pretty obvious it's a red flag to RMT activity to the system.

Now, you could have gotten banned for something else, and then the point of all of this was moot. But the only way you're going to find out what you were banned for is if you contact support.

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Each separate account is treated as its own entity,

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In all actuality, this is not the case, especially if they're all paid for with the same credit card. Tell that to those asian players that all got banned when one of them broke the rules.

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Originally Posted by Alhanelem

There's only 2 reasons you'd need mules for cruor: To buy more brews, or to buy more NPCable/AHable goods with it. In the former case, I say get better at the game so you don't need brews, in the latter case, well that's RMT activity.

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RMT stands for Real Money Trading.

If what you describe is ACTUALLY RMT, then it's RMT between the player and SE.

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Originally Posted by Dragonlord

If a person is paying for all of their different accounts, why shouldn't they be able to reap the rewards from it? Each separate account is treated as its own entity, regardless of how many or few people play on it.

@ the OP:
I recently had an lsmate drop from game during an itzpap farm only to find out he had been banned. It was because he had billing trouble w/ the crysta system. So don't judge about what the ban was for until your friend contacts SE about it, because it could be for numerous reasons.

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It never matters what you or I think. If SE thinks its abusive, they can ban you. As per the EULA, you have no rights to your character. Play nice in the Sandbox and that's not likely to happen. Exploit game mechanics for your own profit, tread carefully.

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Originally Posted by Mirabelle

It never matters what you or I think. If SE thinks its abusive, they can ban you. As per the EULA, you have no rights to your character. Play nice in the Sandbox and that's not likely to happen. Exploit game mechanics for your own profit, tread carefully.

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SE has never stated that using alternate characters to accrue cruor is against ToS. And if i'm remembering correctly they came out and stated that trading items such as the armor purchasable with cruor into gil is a perfectly legitimate tactic.

You guys need to learn the difference between why salvage dupes were against ToS and all of this stuff isn't. The salvage duping was an error in the code that players knew was wrong and took advantage of. Using multiple characters for cruor is perfectly within the design of how SE designed how cruor is obtained. 1 kill from 1 player is x cruor. 1 kill from a player in an alliance is x*18, and this is how they implemented it.

I once received a ban on 2 accounts and to this day I don't know why it happened. I was running through Sea after finishing up on killing some Jailers with my LS (no, I wasn't flee hacking, one account was on PS3 the other on PC), and boom, d/ced and had LM-17 when logging in again. My mule account, linked to the same SE account, was still online, so I was able to talk to my LS to let them know what was happening. I had to wait for the service center to open, and when I called they had no idea what happened either. They had no record of a ban on my accounts. They reset my passwords (I use a token, but the POL password on both accounts was somehow corrupted) and I was able to log in again.

Don't give up, call SE and ask what happened. Perhaps their auto-ban program went nuts again.

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Originally Posted by Brolic

for being dumb, it's next to impossible to get banned these days

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This guy says it best! he posts about botting & RMT & I bet he's never been banned or GM jail, just a few deleted posts lol.

And my old sig saying I don't bot, buy gil, RMT or use windower, it was removed for being against the guidelines so I think that says SE no longer cares, well unless you anger a JP player *then* you get banned cause JP don't like the botters.

Was your friend's account pretty new, by any chance? I've heard a few horror stories here and there about legitimate new players upsetting the auto-ban thingy by legitimately selling enough legitimate junk to presumably legitimate NPCs.

Not sure if there's actually any truth to it, but the idea that SE would forget to adjust the auto-ban thingy to account for how much stuff normal people sell to NPCs nowadays makes sense to me.

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Originally Posted by Tohihroyu

This guy says it best! he posts about botting & RMT & I bet he's never been banned or GM jail, just a few deleted posts lol.

And my old sig saying I don't bot, buy gil, RMT or use windower, it was removed for being against the guidelines so I think that says SE no longer cares, well unless you anger a JP player *then* you get banned cause JP don't like the botters.

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Lol your signature actually said that you modify game dats. It's likely that nobody would have noticed ...... except that you call attention to it by bringing up rmt and bots in every single thread, no matter what the thread is about.

on topic: I've heard about people getting banned for gardening a lot. Apparently the auto ban machine does not like people with a green thumb.

I'd like to point out that if I we're banned for something I probably would not tell the real reason for the ban. People whom are banned I assume are done so for exploiting their or other people's service. I remember being told a way that you could at least get one month free for every two months you played. I don't know the exact details (you would wait until the first day of the next month to put money in the bank account linked your POL account as I recall). This is fraud and hence illegal in most countries. And if suspected of doing this you would probably be banned.

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Originally Posted by Dragonlord

If a person is paying for all of their different accounts, why shouldn't they be able to reap the rewards from it? Each separate account is treated as its own entity, regardless of how many or few people play on it.

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Not sure what your point is exactly, but account sharing is indeed prohibited.
Just saying. ^^;

Also, I know more than a few players who have been banned without apparent reason, especially as of late, due to either personal, or technical mistakes in their payment-system, so that's something I would suggest on looking into as the first thing.

While converting Cruor into Gil is fine, I can imagine using alliances of "M.U.L.E.S." to do it could go beyond the fine (line), while not explicitly stated in the ToS, or anywhere else.
Just to 'run' said characters would more than likely be done via more or less third-party tools.
I'm not saying anything like this is/has happened here/there, I'm merely speculating. :]

Consideration with every... most things!


All in all, your friend is the one who should ask this question, and do so via the Support Centre/Center.

Best of luck~

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for being dumb, it's next to impossible to get banned these days

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This. I see people using tools all over the place, very often the same people abusing stuff and nothing ever happens to them. Flee botting, JA0wait etc, all safe to use. I even know people that play just to RMT gil to supplement their income irl, nothing happens to them either.

If you got banned you either did something completely retarded (choco blinker bot?), got caught in some fishing net RMT ban spree or had payment issues.

Friend of mine got banned recently for no reason or no clear reason.

Basically one month he was unable to pay and after trying like a million time he rang up SE and was told his accounts fine and nothings wrong just wait a day or so and try again....

So he pay for his account and .... his account is suspended (which lead to a full ban)

Either he was pretty pissed that SE told him there was nothing wrong and he spent $13 for a month he couldn't use either he did try to find out what was wrong but no one told him why and since he only rejoined a month or so before he just gave up.

As far as doing anything wrong in game the only thing that he thought could of flagged him was using his wife visa or selling like 10 heavy metals for 1 mil (when they first came out)

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Originally Posted by Raksha

RMT stands for Real Money Trading.

If what you describe is ACTUALLY RMT, then it's RMT between the player and SE.

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The generation of gil is what RMTs do, without the generation of gil they cannot RMT. What this person was doing was generation gil in the same fasion that RMTs do, he was basicaly playing with a loaded shotgun.

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Friend of mine got banned recently for no reason or no clear reason.

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Unless you've monitored every action of your friend, how can you be so sure? Your ban doesn't come with a reason attached. It could have been for something you did 5 minutes before it happened, or it could have been for something you did days or weeks ago.

If you contact support you can find out the reason for a suspension or ban.

I'm pretty sure the Galka outside the Mog House in Bastok Mines earns you a ban if you sell anything to it. When wildgrass seeds went crazy there for a while, RMT used to sell on trial accounts to that NPC. You could see a whole line of level 1 tarus there every day.

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Originally Posted by Alhanelem

Unless you've monitored every action of your friend, how can you be so sure? Your ban doesn't come with a reason attached. It could have been for something you did 5 minutes before it happened, or it could have been for something you did days or weeks ago.

If you contact support you can find out the reason for a suspension or ban.

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/wave whiteknight

You know people say the same thing over and over i got the point in 2005.

As for if SE bans people by mistake ?
Yes it happens seen people have bans on them then removed because they confused speed hacking with lag they only got there account back after months of phone calls.

The issue with the thing i posted was that SE told them there was nothing wrong with there account then when they paid for the month abd they were banned (0 play time) basically got trolled out of $13

He got his account back yesterday, but all they said was an "error" on their part. Not to mention he did sell 60 inventory spaces of blinkers in less than 20 min. But still, and the guy with the multiple mules isn't around anymore or decided not to play for a bit..its been a few days, but w/e thanks for the discussion.

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Originally Posted by Rezeak

/wave whiteknight

You know people say the same thing over and over i got the point in 2005.

As for if SE bans people by mistake ?
Yes it happens seen people have bans on them then removed because they confused speed hacking with lag they only got there account back after months of phone calls.

The issue with the thing i posted was that SE told them there was nothing wrong with there account then when they paid for the month abd they were banned (0 play time) basically got trolled out of $13

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I'm not a "white knight" but they don't ban people for literally no reason. There isn't some guy with a ban button at SE HQ saying hmm... who shall I ban to day? */sea all gal pup/war 99 T*

... If I'm a white knight, you're a black knight, because you always believe and assume the worst.

Ban mistakes are inevitable, like in this case, but they are relatively rare on the whole. You make it sound as if more innocent people are banned than those who have flouted rules. If they were as common as you say they were, I should have been banned at least once by now for "no reason" after having played for the 8 years or so that the game's been out in the US.

SE does not "troll you out of $13"... If an account was banned and the person hadn't played a moment from the billing period, then that tells me there must have been a breach of that account's security. Somebody did something, even if it wasn't the account holder.

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Originally Posted by Oscar71

Not to mention he did sell 60 inventory spaces of blinkers in less than 20 min.

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Oh yeah? Well, I killed 200 sobeks in a year.

And I brewed 3 Azdajas at once on summoner, I must be hacking.

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Originally Posted by Oscar71

Not to mention he did sell 60 inventory spaces of blinkers in less than 20 min.

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He must be slow, I've NPC'd more then that in less then 10.

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Originally Posted by Tsukino_Kaji

He must be slow, I've NPC'd more then that in less then 10.

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LOL..probably, he kinda is, no what I was trying to say was that perhaps he sold them all at once or something and prompted him as RMT or something. That's all, not sure if you guys are using that as saying he was showing off or something, or whatever. :D

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Originally Posted by Alhanelem

SE does not "troll you out of $13"... If an account was banned and the person hadn't played a moment from the billing period, then that tells me there must have been a breach of that account's security. Somebody did something, even if it wasn't the account holder.

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While it wasn't my account they did do the above since they admitted to him that it was an error basically he asked why he couldn't pay SE said no clue but confirmed to him there was nothing wrong with there account, then he payed and found out his account was suspended rang up and asked them and they basically said woops my bad then ofc my friend asked to get the $13 back then was told that was not possible cause it was done via lol click and buy.

Btw i'm not sayng there is a /random ban button but there automated ban system in combination with there BAD customer service is sucky.

I've seen at least 4 people be wrongly banned for different reasons since the bans were lifted after 10 days of phone calls :(

One case was my friend got baned and it took like 9 days just to speak to the right person while alot of them tryed to help him they weren't sure on what to do or how to go about it. o and he got banned for using his wife CC card after his bounced.

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I've seen at least 4 people be wrongly banned for different reasons since the bans were lifted after 10 days of phone calls

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Well, those mistakes were corrected, so I don't count them (though it's fair to say that it shouldn't have taken that long to resolve them). The vast majority of bans are not mistakes (e.g., for a reason, whether you agree with the reason or not), and those that are can be and do get overturned as you have demonstrated.

Personally though, I have contacted customer service dozens of times over 8 years and I have never had the kind of experiences all your friends allegedly have. In 8 years, I've personally known a single person who got banned (but he did what he got banned for and probably deserved it) and outside of that nobody on my friend list or in any linkshell I've ever been in. While customer service wasn't always able to help (in most of those cases I didn't actually expect contacting them to help) but I have never had to wrestle with a bunch of different people to resolve an issue. The most people I have had to contact was 3, and that was about trying to get the Player Event Support form to work (eventually, they gave up on trying to get the form to work and just set the event up for me manually, by a very friendly LGM who even obliged my request to re-use objects not normally available for PES)

Remember, just because you personally have all these friends in high places that got "wrongfully" banned, does not mean it happens all the time. It is a fallacy of logic to assume based on observation of such a small sample that something occurs more often than it really does. I can assue you they don't get some kind of joy out of banning people, because it costs them money to do so.