Do they have plans on making any other summons worthwhile?

Anyone know if SE will make the other avatars we use less like fenrir/carbuncle/ramuh/etc more useful?

So far we have 1 pet that's basically used on everything (no need to mention her name) and it makes me wonder why i should even consider going for other magian staff trials :/

I wouldn't say they are particularly bad. But we are about 24 levels late for a new good rage pact on all the avatars. Atmas on pets would also work, but it doesn't seem like SE would ever enable that on all zones.

You can use Garuda for a lot of things, but others have their uses as well. I love her, and have found many uses for her over the years. I still do, but I wouldn't write off all of the other celestials.

I do agree though that Fenrir/Diabolos/Carbuncle are more limited. For example, Carbuncle is good for erase/curing at times. But aside from using Carbuncles wards, he won't see much use. Fenrir and Diabolos lack stronger wards (fenrir being better than diabolos) so they may have an occasional ward use (the new ones are awful) but that's about it.

All of the merit bloodpacts (except titan having added stun) are the same. So if you're spamming those, garuda is no different. Only the element matters.

Ifrit's new bloodpact is pretty strong. Inferno Howl does ~40 damage enfire on attacks. I was using him soloing all of the magian trials for the pet MAB staff the other day, and they went very quickly with him. His auto attack does (and mine with a crappy trial staff) do a fairly decent amount with enfire on. It adds up.
Also, flaming crush was one shotting all of the mobs in Uleg Range. Predator Claws was not. Nor was 5/5 Heavenly Strike + AF3+2 + 5/5 magic merits + Caller's Neck (essentially ~300 tp every time). Nor was Wind blade (which you don't want to use with ice weather anyways).

Ramuh's Chaotic Strike's damage is about on par with predator claws, and better on something that is weak to Blunt. If you're fighting something lightning or water, he can especially be useful. I was using him in voidwatch the other day (T1-T4 Sandy) and was getting some decent Chaotic Strikes with him, like in the range of 1000-1700 typically. He can also throw out shock squall for some decent stun. I'd actually debating dumping my 5/5 wind blade for Ramuh 5/5 because of shock squall's usefulness in voidwatch, Garuda no longer being the cheapest as per karura hachigane, and lightning being a better element.

Leviathan's tidal roar, slowga, and healing are pretty decent for him soloing. He may not hit as fast as Garuda, as hard as Ifrit, and his bloodpact may be a little weaker, but he can hold his own pretty well. I was using him to solo the KCNM30 with the bomb. That's pretty fun.

I could make more cases for Shiva (though admittedly, Rush is awful) and Titan, but you probably get the point.

Experiment a bit and they may surprise you.

Garuda can be used effectively in a lot of situations, but so can some of the other avatars. That's why we have them all. Use whichever one fits the situation best. Don't turn Garuda into your own CourrierCarrie!

The developers said at some point, that they wish we use our avatars based on elemental situations. I think we all know its safe to say that they already failed at that.

In my opinion every Avatar needs a Ward Pact that is able to heal the avatar and others around him/her like whispering wind/Healing Ruby II. People prefer, and that for obvious reasons, Garuda.

Shiva is good for nuking and Titan has some uses for Earthen Armor/ward. if you dont go into melee range of a target you have a few choices for avatars. But the moment you melee or get into close range in general Garuda wins above all others.

Ifrit is sadly a joke for Ward choices and even his offensive abilitys lack quite enorm. Diabolos looses all TP at every BP regardless of Rage/ward aside from the fact that his Rage pacts deal impressive low damage compared to the other lvl 70 BPs.

If the developers intent to make things right, they have to change some BPs around. For instance every avatar should have the ability to at least selfcure him/herself.

I mainly do WoE on SMN, and it's packed with other SMN doing the same. There are generally 4 avatars that you'll see being used:
Garuda; good all-round avatar for mobs without insanely high eva and def. PC damage fluctuates quite a bit though as you won't cap acc even on the trash mobs.
Ramuh; Excellent for survivability for himself, and those around. 2 Stun moves in every 45 seconds helps a lot against all those huge AOEs. Alternatively, thunderstorm is also good damage on some mobs.
Leviathan; Tidal Roar helps to mitigate everyone's damage, and spring water for curing. Spinning Dive is generally a favourite physical BP rage for mobs with high eva.
Shiva; Heavenly strike here is obvious for anything not strong to ice. Diamond Storm helps a little with DoT and also helps those using Predator Claws/Chaotic Strike.

Aside from this, I also like Titan for both his wards, and Stun on anything strong to thunder.

Ifrit's Inferno Howl is Godly for Perfect Defense/Hundred Fists Zergs, like the final LB.

Carby is a nice pet to have around for cures in Campaign battles where ther are a lot of NPCs around you.

Diabolos is the only Avatar with a BP ward that actually does damage, and the gravity is nice too. And the only avatar with a worthwhile favour.

Fenrir is a surprisingly effective, and yet cheap avatar for fighting anything weak to piercing. Not to mention that he has the highest DoT of all avatars.

So, there you go. A reason for every avatar, given the right circumstances.

Diabolos is the avatar of choice against mage mobs. Self MDB is really handy.

given the circumstances. you hit the nail on the head. you only named specific cases. in general on the other hand the above statement still stands

Windwhisper, your artistic license on sentence structure intrigues me.

-If you want to do physical damage then you'll use Garuda (ecliptic bite damage did somewhere close to predator, but something changed since then)
-If you want to keep your avatar out for TP bonuses for nukes then garuda and shiva are options.
-If you are fighting a fight where you kite, then you'll consider diabolos 500dmg, titan, or using /assault to keep the avatar moving.. in that case it's garuda.
-If you want to buff melees then garuda, titan, ifrit, and the option of keeping out ramuh/ifrit BUT bp with garuda.
-If you want to play back row then you can use diabolos, garuda, and whatever else you want.
-If you wan to solo, what would you use?

See the pattern?

Personally i'd like to do other trials but i find that summons are mainly situational and that the job itself is situational unlike most of the 17 other jobs. Making some changes like auras (swap titan from sixtyish def to -pdt, fenrir's magic evasion should be +200 or swap to -mdt, leviathan from magic accuracy to conserve mp or something) as well as scaling up pet damage since the old formula for pet damage is in consideration for their job type which is blm. I think the stats of some pets should be reconsidered and scaled to use.

Turning fenrir into a faster and harder hitting pet (can he have his bcnm flee speed too please? i hate seeing him trail a mob frolicking through the grass taking detours instead of straight lines) and diabolos ranged attack scaled to do a bit more than drain 2 would be a great start.

Some new Rage pacts would be nice, but I think some people are under the belief that new ones would do twice the damage of the level 70/75 BPs - they won't. If we get new ones they'll end up like the new merit weapon skills - flashy, but highly situational at best.

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Originally Posted by Fyreus

-If you want to do physical damage then you'll use Garuda (ecliptic bite damage did somewhere close to predator, but something changed since then)
-If you want to keep your avatar out for TP bonuses for nukes then garuda and shiva are options.
-If you are fighting a fight where you kite, then you'll consider diabolos 500dmg, titan, or using /assault to keep the avatar moving.. in that case it's garuda.
-If you want to buff melees then garuda, titan, ifrit, and the option of keeping out ramuh/ifrit BUT bp with garuda.
-If you want to play back row then you can use diabolos, garuda, and whatever else you want.
-If you wan to solo, what would you use?

See the pattern?

Personally i'd like to do other trials but i find that summons are mainly situational and that the job itself is situational unlike most of the 17 other jobs. Making some changes like auras (swap titan from sixtyish def to -pdt, fenrir's magic evasion should be +200 or swap to -mdt, leviathan from magic accuracy to conserve mp or something) as well as scaling up pet damage since the old formula for pet damage is in consideration for their job type which is blm. I think the stats of some pets should be reconsidered and scaled to use.

Turning fenrir into a faster and harder hitting pet (can he have his bcnm flee speed too please? i hate seeing him trail a mob frolicking through the grass taking detours instead of straight lines) and diabolos ranged attack scaled to do a bit more than drain 2 would be a great start.

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Eclipse Bite was never close to Predator Claws. And Chaotic Strike and Spinning Dive were also always better than Eclipse Bite. The only thing that probably wasn't was rush, which is terrible. But especially on blunt things, Chaotic strike can do well too, and it stuns. 'Predator claws only' makes me think of things like THF spamming evisceration only outside abyssea (crit hit mentality these days), and not remembering that WS like DE usually outperform it.

Any avatar can melee fine for TP for merit pacts. If you have a 5/5, emp neck, and emp legs +2, most will be hitting 300 tp or close to it by the time you BP. Yeah, garuda can hit faster with haste (and I do have 5/5 wind blade from forever ago which i may switch) but a 5/5 pact is going to be at about the same anyways.

If you are fighting a kited monster and it doesn't resist one of fire/wind/thunder/earth/water/ice, then a 5/5 merit bloodpact will probably beat anything else you can use. It definitely will crush Diabolos, and it has much more range than missing several physical pacts and wasting time.

Hastega is a good buff, but if you have people being hasted by mages anyways it kind of is useless. Inferno Howl is nuts outside abyssea on jobs like THF and NIN, who hit faster and weaker.

I'm not sure why anyone would really want to use diabolos 'back row' unless using something like dream shroud. Diabolos is pretty lacking these days. And if you're idling for refresh, either fix your setup, or get a bard or something.

Garuda is good solo. But the case can be made for many avatars.

Leviathan tanks pretty well solo with slowga/tidal roar and better healing than garuda. Spinning dive is less powerful usually than Predator claws but his survivability is higher.

Ramuh has good survivability with Chaotic Strike stun, shock spikes mini and inconsistent stuns, and shock squall's stun.

Etc.

And Fenrir already has higher base damage and less delay. He is the highest DPS auto attack avatar. You may mean movement speed and stronger bloodpacts, though. Either way, yeah, fenrir could use a nice strong bloodpact.

Fenrir can come close to PC, but only on birds etc. that get the 25% damage boost from piercing. Add the better DoT that Fenrir has over the other Avatars, and the fact that you can boost his acc/eva and all stats depending on the moon phase, and when endrain is up, he can even heal himself some. The extra DoT and stats boost won't make up for less damage on BP rage when not on piercing mobs though.

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Originally Posted by Babekeke

Fenrir can come close to PC, but only on birds etc. that get the 25% damage boost from piercing. Add the better DoT that Fenrir has over the other Avatars, and the fact that you can boost his acc/eva and all stats depending on the moon phase, and when endrain is up, he can even heal himself some. The extra DoT and stats boost won't make up for less damage on BP rage when not on piercing mobs though.

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Eclipse bite is Slashing, not piercing.

Cresent fang (which is a level 10 bloodpact) is piercing. So Predator claws is well ahead of eclipse bite on birds (and everything else) and crescent fang is weak damage wise.

The endrain is pretty terrible. Every little bit helps but it's low. Not only that, if it give aspir instead, it's useless for fenrir.

Yeah, he can get a bit of an acc boost. And slight stat boost. But that's not going to make up for it. This is why people use Garuda, Leviathan, etc. over Fenrir.

Fenrir is the best/second best for DoT though, if you were to not use BPs. Attacks faster and harder. Though not as fast as a hasted garuda, so not sure if Garuda still wins when hasted.

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Originally Posted by Malamasala

Fenrir is the best/second best for DoT though, if you were to not use BPs. Attacks faster and harder. Though not as fast as a hasted garuda, so not sure if Garuda still wins when hasted.

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Yeah I said in the previous post:

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And Fenrir already has higher base damage and less delay. He is the highest DPS auto attack avatar.

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Fenrir has the highest base DPS.

But yeah, adding in hastega for garuda ups hers a bit. And Ifrit's inferno howl is so strong, if not being resisted, that he will likely beat fenrir. It does ~40 damage a hit. Ramuh's isn't as strong but his will be a bit higher as well, definitely above Leviathan/Shiva/Titan/Diabolos/Carbuncle.

If you're not using any bloodpacts at all, Fenrir is probably the best choice (except on things that spam, say, lightning element stuff. Then Titan/Ramuh are better).

On anything that you're using bloodpacts on, the Celestials will almost, if not always, beat fenrir.