[dev1048] Please make Tags Stockpile

Please make assault tags stockpile like abyssea & voidwatch stones.

oh god, this on so many levels. The 3 tag cap has needed to be abolished for so long.

For the love of god yes.

It would make sense now that I have only 3 missions to complete. ^^;

Anyways, they did mention a time ago that they are considering lowering the time between the accumulating tags. I doubt they would make it THAT good and if the new Nyzul is going to be popular (and even if not, they already mention this in the latest info about it), they will need to create time-sinks while this would be quite the opposite...

Would be a pleasant surprise if they actually did something different in this time and age when it comes to alleviating congestion.

Well its techincally 4 tags, 5 if you do all the assaults, 1 nyzul, and get captain rank.

While I would love for them to stock pile (LOVE LOVE LOVE LOVE LOVE X10000000) I feel like they wont do that since it would remove all the time requirements from mythics. Basically you could do all assaults and go from PSC to C in a day, then repeat them all again for the mythic requirment. You could also farm nyzul points at a higher rate then the current 2k / week (good thing you only need ~100k right?)

I would like to see:
6th tag for nyzul 1-100 clear
7th tag for ToAU clear (even though its already needed for captain rank)
8th tag for Nyzul ws unlock
9th tag Odin Clear
10th tag PW clear

With each additional tag lowering the respawn rate of tags by 3 hrs.
21 hrs for 5
18 for 6
...
6 hours for 10

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Originally Posted by Dfoley

Well its techincally 4 tags, 5 if you do all the assaults, 1 nyzul, and get captain rank.

While I would love for them to stock pile (LOVE LOVE LOVE LOVE LOVE X10000000) I feel like they wont do that since it would remove all the time requirements from mythics. Basically you could do all assaults and go from PSC to C in a day, then repeat them all again for the mythic requirment. You could also farm nyzul points at a higher rate then the current 2k / week (good thing you only need ~100k right?)

I would like to see:
6th tag for nyzul 1-100 clear
7th tag for ToAU clear (even though its already needed for captain rank)
8th tag for Nyzul ws unlock
9th tag Odin Clear
10th tag PW clear

With each additional tag lowering the respawn rate of tags by 3 hrs.
21 hrs for 5
18 for 6
...
6 hours for 10

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You would still only get 1 a day. You just wouldn't lose out when you don't use them.

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Originally Posted by Dfoley

Well its techincally 4 tags, 5 if you do all the assaults, 1 nyzul, and get captain rank.

While I would love for them to stock pile (LOVE LOVE LOVE LOVE LOVE X10000000) I feel like they wont do that since it would remove all the time requirements from mythics. Basically you could do all assaults and go from PSC to C in a day, then repeat them all again for the mythic requirment. You could also farm nyzul points at a higher rate then the current 2k / week (good thing you only need ~100k right?)

I would like to see:
6th tag for nyzul 1-100 clear
7th tag for ToAU clear (even though its already needed for captain rank)
8th tag for Nyzul ws unlock
9th tag Odin Clear
10th tag PW clear

With each additional tag lowering the respawn rate of tags by 3 hrs.
21 hrs for 5
18 for 6
...
6 hours for 10

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while I would prefer simply removing the cap altogether, the only things I'm missing from your list are captain rank and PW clear, so I could live with that, if they did something like.... removing the 3 person minimum.

Actually, no. Stockpile tags and remove the three person minimum anyway. It's stupid and completely kills assaults for people who don't have 2 other people who they can reliably do assaults with every day. I'd have gotten so many of them done by now if I could just freakin solo them...

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Originally Posted by Theytak

while I would prefer simply removing the cap altogether, the only things I'm missing from your list are captain rank and PW clear, so I could live with that, if they did something like.... removing the 3 person minimum.

Actually, no. Stockpile tags and remove the three person minimum anyway. It's stupid and completely kills assaults for people who don't have 2 other people who they can reliably do assaults with every day. I'd have gotten so many of them done by now if I could just freakin solo them...

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This.

Also, stockpiling doesn't mean they are going to add a function like abyssea where people can farm time. You would still only have 7 per week. Stockpiling 14 tags and doing all the runs in one day isn't any faster than doing 1 run a day 14 days straight. It's just easier to schedule.

Abolish the tag system entirely and let us Assault as many times as we want whenever we want. Add more items to the individual zone pools (they can even be moderately expensive!) and just place a conquest tally limit on ranking up. That way people aren't fighting over getting assault clears for captain rank, running nyzul, or spamming RvB to do Salvage.

Some of you are delusional if you think this wouldn't speed things up...

Even if you can still only do 1 tag per day, 7 per week, if you are not using them every 4 days, they are basically being wasted at the moment (which is what i would venture is what 99% of the people are doing).

Dont get me wrong, I am all for stockpiling tags, but it just wont happen because of the mythic costs involved.

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Originally Posted by Dfoley

Some of you are delusional if you think this wouldn't speed things up...

Even if you can still only do 1 tag per day, 7 per week, if you are not using them every 4 days, they are basically being wasted at the moment (which is what i would venture is what 99% of the people are doing).

Dont get me wrong, I am all for stockpiling tags, but it just wont happen because of the mythic costs involved.

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So 1+1+1+1+1 > 5? Please explain your math.

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Originally Posted by FrankReynolds

So 1+1+1+1+1 > 5? Please explain your math.

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gonna have to agree, you're failing math pretty hard here, D. It's not like we're asking for retroactive tag build up. If you think about it;

To reach captain, you have to do all 51 assaults. That's a minimum of 51 tags (51 because you have to include nyzul isle). To even start the mythic quests, you have to have a runic key, so that's a bare minimum 20 more assaults. To get the assaults required for a mythic, you have to do the 50 assaults again. So far that's 121 tags. Add in the farming the 150,000 nyzul tokens necessary, and account for the fact that there's no way in hell you'll pull wining all 50 assaults twice without a single failure, let a lone managing to farm tokens without borking anything up. Now assuming you don'tneed any extra assault points to get your salvage wins, and can get them based solely on the points built up via the two 50 assaults grinds, you're looking at, probably, ~150ish tags. ie: 150 days, or about 5 months. Just for assaults. That's not even considering how many more tags you'll spend getting assault points for farming the 30k alexandrite.

There's absolutely no change in how long it would take you to get a mythic without capped assault tags, so long as they don't retroactively grant any, you can just accomplish more of the grind in a single go as opposed to having to space it out to one assault per day.

need to remove the 3 person mini from all of these, including regular Aaault missions.

Ohh no you guys don't seriously think their going to remove the tag cap do you?

Notice how they removed the ability to teleport to a floor directly, meaning you can no longer farm specific boss's for body / head items. Instead you must pray that your *randomly* teleported to a floor that's close to the boss you want to fight. Chances are it won't be and you'll just time out without getting to fight a boss at all. So by limiting tags they limit the number of times per day you can attempt to get your body / head piece. Thus they extent the amount of time it'll take you to acquire said piece. Days become weeks, weeks become months.

Can't remember specifically which thread it was in, and I gots no time to search for it right now, but I do remember that they mentioned a time ago that they are not planning on removing the 3-member requirement because the rewards are geared towards three to six characters... whatever that means.

Might look for it later to get the exact wording right.

Personally I'd just rather have 7 tags stockpile.

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Originally Posted by saevel

Ohh no you guys don't seriously think their going to remove the tag cap do you?

Notice how they removed the ability to teleport to a floor directly, meaning you can no longer farm specific boss's for body / head items. Instead you must pray that your *randomly* teleported to a floor that's close to the boss you want to fight. Chances are it won't be and you'll just time out without getting to fight a boss at all. So by limiting tags they limit the number of times per day you can attempt to get your body / head piece. Thus they extent the amount of time it'll take you to acquire said piece. Days become weeks, weeks become months.

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What? They're not changing regular nyzul. At all.

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Originally Posted by Theytak

What? They're not changing regular nyzul. At all.

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Sounds a whole lot like it.

And even if they keep "old nyzule" the way it is. You think their going to allow you to spam the "new nyzule" content when they can instead force you to drag it out over weeks / months at a time.

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Originally Posted by saevel

Sounds a whole lot like it.

And even if they keep "old nyzule" the way it is. You think their going to allow you to spam the "new nyzule" content when they can instead force you to drag it out over weeks / months at a time.

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even with the tag cap removed, you couldn't spam it in the without first waiting weeks/months to build up enough tags anyway. And they made it pretty clear they're not getting rid of old nyzul, this is an entirely separate assault mission.

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Originally Posted by saevel

Sounds a whole lot like it.

And even if they keep "old nyzule" the way it is. You think their going to allow you to spam the "new nyzule" content when they can instead force you to drag it out over weeks / months at a time.

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I was thinking a bit what you meant with the first post, but yeah, they're not speaking of changing Nyzul, but adding new floors.

And the 'changes' are more like 'differences'. ^^;

I don't understand why people keep saying they won't let you just spam it. At what point did anyone in here suggest that they add a way for you to suddenly earn 1,000 tags per day?

I probably came closest only because I hate the tag system and being arbitrarily locked out of content in general.

Yeah, I don't like the tag system either. They should have balanced this better so that you weren't locked out of one event if you did another.

I actually don't mind the tag limit, honestly. But what I would like to see is a SEPARATE tag generation between Nyzul Isle and Assaults. That way a person can help their friends with assault and still be able to aid with Nyzul on a different tag rotation. I can't see how this would break anything at all and would draw a bit more interest to the new content and possibly revitalize the old. I don' know about other players but having to choose between Nyzul and Assault with my tag amount drove me bat-crap crazy.

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Originally Posted by FrankReynolds

At what point did anyone in here suggest that they add a way for you to suddenly earn 1,000 tags per day?

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Maybe it should be like voidwatch in that you can buy more stones, but in this case, I think you should be able to use Imperial Standing to buy Imperial Tags.

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Originally Posted by Economizer

Maybe it should be like voidwatch in that you can buy more stones, but in this case, I think you should be able to use Imperial Standing to buy Imperial Tags.

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Yeah, might give people a reason to go use ToAU zones again.

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Originally Posted by FrankReynolds

So 1+1+1+1+1 > 5? Please explain your math.

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Let me post again to say that I DO WANT tags to stock pile, I just don’t see them letting you do that.

No you technically aren’t doing any more than you could POTENTIALLY do before.

Also theytak, you are incorrect in that you need to do nyzul to get captain, it is 50 assaults not 51. You only need to do 1 nyzul clear to get the 5th tag, and you don’t even need captain rank. After you finish all 50 assaults (before getting captain) if you have finished nyzul you will be given the extra tag.


The thing is:
150 days of never missing a tag is a lot different than what the average player will experience of missing one here and there, and that 150 days slides to 160-175 days.


Here is an example:
Average Joe has no static and wants to do assaults for captain rank
Day 1: He gets 1 tag,
Day 2-4: waits 3 more days to have 4 tags saved up
Day 4: He builds a pt (probably ~1hr ish to find 2 other people willing to help)
Does the 4 assaults (average 3-5 minutes per assault, they are all a complete joke now)

Day 5 -8: he forgets to go pick up a tag
Day 9: he goes and gets 1 tag
Day 10: he has 4 tags again but not enough time to play
Day 11: he does his 4 assaults and fails one because it is a retarded follow/escort mission that bugs out for no reason (uncommon at best, out of 50 assaults only came close to failing 1, and it was the escort the appakalu one)

Etc ... By the time he has finished his captain rank it has taken 60-65 days with 10 wasted tags that he will never get back

Same average Joe with tags stock piled:
Average Joe collects 65 tags
Does 5 assaults -> rank up -> 5 assaults -> rank up etc (given JP midnights id say at best you could do 5 one day 5 the next)

From start to finish, the same 65 days spent, however now he has an extra 10~15 tags that he can immediately use on Nyzul, potentially going from floor 1-100 with 14 tags and 5 other non short-bus-special players. While with the current system that’s another 10-15 days of waiting do at most 5 tags per run. (4 more realistically if you count that the average nyzul player doesn’t have captain rank).

That’s what I mean by speeding things up.


EG 2:
Joe has a static, and they only want to meet every Sunday at 5pm
that’s 3 wasted tags a week
and that 150 days for nyzul/assault blows up to 265 days with 100+ wasted tags

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Originally Posted by Dfoley

Let me post again to say that I DO WANT tags to stock pile, I just don’t see them letting you do that.

No you technically aren’t doing any more than you could POTENTIALLY do before.

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according to your example, this would be a minor convenience for people who were going to use their tags up anyways, and a huge opportunity for slackers who frequently let tags expire. In short, the people who spam this stuff will not really see any significant gain because they always use their tags up anyways. The slackers however will have a chance to occasionally play catch up. In all likelihood, the slackers will still slack to some degree.

It would basically allow for better balance between play time and real life, by making event scheduling more flexible.

All in all it allows for a few hardcore burnouts to slightly modify their schedule, and the rest of us to casually do events. It won't make hardcore players finish the content in a week. It just gives casuals a chance to remain somewhat relevant.

While we definitely understand your request for more Assault tags, increasing the amount of tags you can have at your disposal is not such an easy thing to do. The main reason is because of the congestion it will create in instanced areas once the revamps to Nyzul and Salvage take place. Apologies for any inconveniences.

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Originally Posted by Camate

congestion

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instanced areas

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I don't get it.

Oh right... FFXI doesn't have real instancing.

Maybe the devs should do something about that, then revisit this idea.

let me rephrase what he said in 1 word. although he used a few more : Balance

sounds familiar?

Why not make items that we can trade to the guy for a tag similar to voiddust?

ps2 limitations and balance

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Originally Posted by Camate

While we definitely understand your request for more Assault tags, increasing the amount of tags you can have at your disposal is not such an easy thing to do. The main reason is because of the congestion it will create in instanced areas once the revamps to Nyzul and Salvage take place. Apologies for any inconveniences.

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Thanks for the update Camate.

Now a followup question that i was actually holding because i figured the dev response to the OP(if they ever gave you one to share...) was going to be something along the lines of what we got:

With the revamping of Nyzul Isle and the future revamping of Salvage, do the SE devs intend to look into separating the the two events, finally?

I personally loved the old Nyzul Isle event, was my favorite thing to do back in the day. But all my friends were Salvage junkies. It was beyond annoying and not a little unfair imo.

Me- Guys, ready for Nyzul Isle runs in a few?

Guys- .............

Me- Hello, you ppl afk or something?

Guys- ....sorry man we forgot and burned all our tags on reg Assault for points for Salvage....again.


It was ridiculous then and will be even more so if you all let this scenario play out again. Especially after Abyssea.

I can maybe get the reasoning back when the events were new in the ToAU era of FFXI. But that time is long past and i really can not see how keeping both events tied to Assault Tags in this day and age can be viewed as acceptable on you all's part. And the above response from the devs takes my sentiment up a few orders of magnitude, as they seem to be stacking the deck in that direction again already.

Please see if you can wrangle a straight answer from the devs on this question Camate. Thanks a bunch in advance.

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Originally Posted by Camate

While we definitely understand your request for more Assault tags, increasing the amount of tags you can have at your disposal is not such an easy thing to do. The main reason is because of the congestion it will create in instanced areas once the revamps to Nyzul and Salvage take place. Apologies for any inconveniences.

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Every time I think I've heard it all, these devs come up with another response that makes even less sense than the last one.

Fix the Damn instancing first then. Expiring tags is a horrible system.

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Originally Posted by Camate

While we definitely understand your request for more Assault tags, increasing the amount of tags you can have at your disposal is not such an easy thing to do. The main reason is because of the congestion it will create in instanced areas once the revamps to Nyzul and Salvage take place. Apologies for any inconveniences.

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Pretty optimistic there.

Hahaha.

if you can't make them stockpile, can you atleast make it so you dont need 3-6 people for Assualt missions, i understand 3-6 for Nyzul Isle and salvage. but the assult missions dont need 3-6 anymore.

my problem is i want to do them and i'm stuck on all the first ones, but no one wants to do them all. so im stuck because you need 3 people, when i can solo 80% of them if i could just do them

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Originally Posted by Camate

While we definitely understand your request for more Assault tags, increasing the amount of tags you can have at your disposal is not such an easy thing to do. The main reason is because of the congestion it will create in instanced areas once the revamps to Nyzul and Salvage take place. Apologies for any inconveniences.

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the probability for high congestion in these areas is pretty low at this point.

Might we request a re-evaluation of this after these mentioned updates take place?

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Originally Posted by Alhanelem

the probability for high congestion in these areas is pretty low at this point.

Might we request a re-evaluation of this after these mentioned updates take place?

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yes please.

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Originally Posted by Camate

While we definitely understand your request for more Assault tags, increasing the amount of tags you can have at your disposal is not such an easy thing to do. The main reason is because of the congestion it will create in instanced areas once the revamps to Nyzul and Salvage take place. Apologies for any inconveniences.

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so, let me see if I have this clear in my head. The reason we can't stockpile tags is because people might become interested in doing the event. Do I have that right? The plan is to keep it limited so that people CAN'T participate at any reasonable interval...

OK... it's the developer's own personal names that follow their resumes when they look for their next jobs and reasoning like this that stands out when hiring considerations are made, but whatever, it's your livelihoods.