/SCH or SCH main Concerning Accession.

Could you let WHM/SCH or SCH main cast Reraise to party members while under the effect of Accession, Thanks for reading. ^^

Not sure if this is in the wrong place but seeing it can work for both SJ and or MJ posting this here.

It's in the wrong place. Scholar or Suggestions forum.

And the reason this isn't allowed is because it would be considered too powerful. BRD's song is acceptable mostly because it has a very short duration, basically requiring you to cast it right before your party dies (which is hard to do unless you know in advance it's going to happen) and requires you to give up a combat song.

Besides, it shouldn't even be necessary. Reraise items are easily obtainable and there's no excuse for people not to be using them.

Haste would be more acceptable to grant AoE to and SE has specifically refused to grant it, so good luck with Reraise.

Thanks for letting me know, That I did put this in the wrong place, oops hope they move it to the right place, I'm sure they will.:)

But yeah I was thinking this would help out a lot,

http://images3.wikia.nocookie.net/__...light_helm.pnghttp://images4.wikia.nocookie.net/__...light_mail.png

Lets talk about... yes, I am going to use the word; Balance, THF, MNK, DNC... the list goes on. These jobs don't have a Reraise set and have to buy their Reraise, This is not Balance, this would help I think. 9 out of 10 members aren't going to be /WHM on a melee job for the Reraise.

It should be allowed for no other reason than consistency.

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Originally Posted by Alhanelem

Besides, it shouldn't even be necessary. Reraise items are easily obtainable and there's no excuse for people not to be using them.

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and yet despite this, not a day goes by that people don't facepalm because 9/10 of the people they're doing anything with will forget to get reraise. This is not a reason to make reraise AoEable, it's a reason to require IQ tests before being allowed to log in.

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Originally Posted by Theytak

and yet despite this, not a day goes by that people don't facepalm because 9/10 of the people they're doing anything with will forget to get reraise. This is not a reason to make reraise AoEable, it's a reason to require IQ tests before being allowed to log in.

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Reraise paper/items all of them, Have a time limit. It would be nice to have a backup, and SCH main or Sub would work great!

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Lets talk about... yes, I am going to use the word; Balance, THF, MNK, DNC... the list goes on. These jobs don't have a Reraise set and have to buy their Reraise,

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Err, what? you haven't heard of reraise earrings, reraisers, hi-reraisers, scroll of instant reraise etc?

You don't need the twilight set to get reraise on any job. If you have it and can use it, it's nice, but it's totallly not necessary. You don't need /WHM either.

SCH AoEing reraise would be ridiculously overpowered. Stop being a noob and bring reraise with you. Either that, or get a bard to do it. Bard's reraise is balanced by its limitations, and being a weaker reraise effect. If they allowed AoE reraise, they would have to nerf the reraise spell in some way.

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Originally Posted by Alhanelem

Err, what? you haven't heard of reraise earrings, reraisers, hi-reraisers, scroll of instant reraise etc?

You don't need the twilight set to get reraise on any job. If you have it and can use it, it's nice, but it's totallly not necessary. You don't need /WHM either.

SCH AoEing reraise would be ridiculously overpowered. Stop being a noob and bring reraise with you. Either that, or get a bard to do it. Bard's reraise is balanced by its limitations, and being a weaker reraise effect. If they allowed AoE reraise, they would have to nerf the reraise spell in some way.

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My main is WHM SCH SMN for one and nor do I have to buy these items, it's called personal prefrence. Assuming I don't know about reraise earrings, reraisers, hi-reraisers, scroll of instant reraise is just stupidity on your part. Therefore your not making any point whats so ever as to how it would be overpowering, Your just trying to bash someone on your comments! Who in the hell left you god to determine what members "Should" be using and doing. lol? easy answer: Nobody, Your just a joke.

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Originally Posted by Krashport

My main is WHM SCH SMN for one and nor do I have to buy these items, it's called personal prefrence. Assuming I don't know about reraise earrings, reraisers, hi-reraisers, scroll of instant reraise is just stupidity on your part. Therefore your not making any point whats so ever as to how it would be overpowering, Your just trying to bash someone on your comments! Who in the hell left you god to determine what members "Should" be using and doing. lol? easy answer: Nobody, Your just a joke.

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Your entire argument loses a lot of its strength just because of the fact that you can't properly use the contraction you're.

Also, I would rather they focus on fixing the new ws or the voidwatch drop system, than coddling lazy people who can't bother to get a damn reraise scroll/earring/hairpin/gorget/potion

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Originally Posted by Theytak

Your entire argument loses a lot of its strength just because of the fact that you can't properly use the contraction you're.

Also, I would rather they focus on fixing the new ws or the voidwatch drop system, than coddling lazy people who can't bother to get a damn reraise scroll/earring/hairpin/gorget/potion

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Should ask yourself, Why would one want to buy an item if they put it on the AH to sell, Also assuming people are lazy for not buying an item, You're Closed minded. Seeing you're more Concerned about VW and these new WS and my spelling, I Think ya got lost in the forums, You see this Thread is about; /SCH or SCH main Concerning Accession. As fair as loosing strength you lost it.

Edit: Let me spell it out for you, SCH means Scholar and WHM means White mage, not VW or WS. also accession is an ability Scholar has, Not a low drop rate. ^^b

This entire thread needs more blazing red text so that it can more properly serve as an example of what not to do if you want to be taken seriously by anyone, anywhere, ever.

Oh yeah, and buy a god damned Reraise Earring.

LOL! Almost fell out of my chair.

My keyboard is bleeding from all the typing I'm doing with it. I would let it die and raise but my mortarboard doesn't have the ability to accession reraise for my keyboard.

Man, I really wish SE would make teleport spells self-target only, remove the Warp II and Retrace spells, and make sneak and invisible incompatible with accession. Doing so would give me so many more opportunities to display how smart I am in carrying all the appropriate items to all the other braniacs who obviously care.

The fact that I always have several warp and RR items, oils and powders in my sack doesn't mean I'm smart. It means I'm inventory minus 7+ and that I spent an unacceptable amount of time running around and navigating through unfriendly and inconsistent menus a billion times.

+1 to Accession Reraise, Raise and Warp just in an effort to make this ancient game one iota less mindnumbingly annoying and boring. I could give a flying burning turd if it's overpowered.

How can anyone think Accession + Reraise would be overpowered? What is Goddess's Hymnus again?

This wouldn't even stop me buying Reraise items. Were I still gracing the Scholar job with my presence I certainly wouldn't waste a Stratagem and 300MP giving one person Reraise. This would be something to use at the start of a fight and would have little application past that in my opinion.

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Originally Posted by Sotek

How can anyone think Accession + Reraise would be overpowered? What is Goddess's Hymnus again?

This wouldn't even stop me buying Reraise items. Were I still gracing the Scholar job with my presence I certainly wouldn't waste a Stratagem and 300MP giving one person Reraise. This would be something to use at the start of a fight and would have little application past that in my opinion.

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I was just thinking the same thing. It's not like SCH or /SCH could fulltime RR-ga, not even close. People would still have to bring items, sadly, and everyone here could be happy that SE was still fostering our intellectual growth by necessitating it.

Shoot, do you know how much I wish I could cast Reraise on others as a White Mage?

Something something House something something.

Highfive if anyone gets that.

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Originally Posted by Sotek

How can anyone think Accession + Reraise would be overpowered? What is Goddess's Hymnus again?

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I completely agree.
As a matter of fact, WHM is probably getting a Raise-ga spell called "Araise".

Getting back IT about SCH I think that I would enjoy having Accession as SCH main being somehow more powerful than Accession as SCH sub. Actually it already is like that when you compare the increased recast etc, but I was more talking about allowing SCH to Accession things that aren't accessionable when /SCH.
Raise and Haste are two examples that come to mind.

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This wouldn't even stop me buying Reraise items.

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Completely agree, but sometimes people are too scared to change anything because things have been in a certain way for sooooo long that you obviously are lead to think changing them would unavoidably destroy "balance".

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Originally Posted by Zhronne

I completely agree.
As a matter of fact, WHM is probably getting a Raise-ga spell called "Araise".

Getting back IT about SCH I think that I would enjoy having Accession as SCH main being somehow more powerful than Accession as SCH sub. Actually it already is like that when you compare the increased recast etc, but I was more talking about allowing SCH to Accession things that aren't accessionable when /SCH.
Raise and Haste are two examples that come to mind.



Completely agree, but sometimes people are too scared to change anything because things have been in a certain way for sooooo long that you obviously are lead to think changing them would unavoidably destroy "balance".

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WHEN they get Haste naturally, by all means. No way should SCH main do a /subjob spell better than the main jobs.... See how it works.

Scholar sure as hell should get Haste natively and it sure as hell should stack with Accession.
Embrava gives us Accession Haste at level 5 for crying out loud. I'm going to enjoy shouting this down SE's throat for the next year or so with no results.

Well, the logic that we shouldn't do better with a subjob spell is fairly flawed anyway. Remember Lv.75? I don't remember Red Mage ever having Gravityga, or Blindga, Bindga, Bioga and so on. Wait why am I mentioning Enfeebles? One word: Phalanx.

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Originally Posted by Sotek

Scholar sure as hell should get Haste natively and it sure as hell should stack with Accession.
Embrava gives us Accession Haste at level 5 for crying out loud. I'm going to enjoy shouting this down SE's throat for the next year or so with no results.

Well, the logic that we shouldn't do better with a subjob spell is fairly flawed anyway. Remember Lv.75? I don't remember Red Mage ever having Gravityga, or Blindga, Bindga, Bioga and so on. Wait why am I mentioning Enfeebles? One word: Phalanx.

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No more flawed then the logic something SCH has should be better than /subjob, it has the cripple required in the triped recast time and only two charges, even as a SCH, I'm against any spells being uniquely accessionable.

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Originally Posted by Sotek

Well, the logic that we shouldn't do better with a subjob spell is fairly flawed anyway.

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Indeed.

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Remember Lv.75? I don't remember Red Mage ever having Gravityga, or Blindga, Bindga, Bioga and so on. Wait why am I mentioning Enfeebles? One word: Phalanx.

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Or Stoneskin, SCH didn't get Stoneskin naturally back then, needed /WHM or /RDM to gain access to it. (unless I'm wrong? D: )

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Originally Posted by Daniel_Hatcher

No more flawed then the logic something SCH has should be better than /subjob, it has the cripple required in the triped recast time and only two charges, even as a SCH, I'm against any spells being uniquely accessionable.

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This confuses me, though maybe I'm just tired.

Accession shouldn't have any limitations on subjob. It should work exactly the same for subjob as it does for Scholar main, I'd even remove the stupid triple recast. If SE didn't want it to be a subjob ability they could have stuck it at a higher level (that argument is more for Innin/Yonin and Afflatus though, since they were added updates before the cap rise). It should work with spells Scholar doesn't get, Cure V, Addle, Temper, any spell that should work with Accession should regardless of what spell it is. If they're not going to do that I wish they'd just change the description on Stratagems (because pretty much all of them are false) to remove the "of your next healing or enhancing white magic spell" and just have it say white or black magic spell, since they've decided to ignore those specifications and even further nit-pick on spells. Maybe Accession should be "Extends the effect of your next healing or enhancing white magic spell, except some healing and enhancing spells and only if Scholar main can cast the spell, to party members within range.", bit of a mouth full though.

This seems somewhat irrelevant though, I can still Accession over a dozen spells I can only access through subjob - Haste should be no different now that I can access it from two separate subjobs.

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Originally Posted by Daniel_Hatcher

No more flawed then the logic something SCH has should be better than /subjob, it has the cripple required in the triped recast time and only two charges, even as a SCH, I'm against any spells being uniquely accessionable.

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I can understand your stance on SCH vs /SCH, not saying I agree but I can understand it.

Your opinion on the point me and Sotek quoted you makes little sense instead.
FFXI is full of jobs who make better use of JAs/Spells than the job they originally come from.
SCH is one of these examples and has always been like that since it was first introduced, it's part of its "nature".
So I can accept you being against SCH able to accession Haste, but you need to find another reason than "no way SCH can make a spell from another job more effective than it already is on those other jobs".

As for my position on SCH having a couple of uniquely accessionable spells, my argument about it is that I would probably have been against it (for consistancy reason) back at 75 when SCH was the only one who could accession things, and it was part of its unique-ness.
Now everybody can accession stuff, /SCH is more powerful than ever, SCH lost what used to be the main noticeable peculiarity it had (the ability to make spells into AoE) and the 3x recast is not a difference big enough imho.
Having a couple of spells accessionable only by SCH would bring some of that feeling back into SCH.

If their argument against accession+haste is "would be too powerful" then I can agree with such argument if we're talking about all jobs going /SCH, but giving this only to SCH wouldn't be much different to the 3+ mins Hastega that Summoners already get.

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Originally Posted by Sotek

Accession shouldn't have any limitations on subjob. It should work exactly the same for subjob as it does for Scholar main, I'd even remove the stupid triple recast. If SE didn't want it to be a subjob ability they could have stuck it at a higher level

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I couldn't agree more, I hate these inconsistencies >_>
Their reasoning behind the triple recast timer probably was "/SCH is gonna get too powerful and SCH will lose the most unique thing they had so far, let's gimp it a bit so that SCH can still continue to feel special", but this has proved to be an uneffective way to pursue their goal, imho.

Still, this is the scenario we find ourselves in and it's unlikely to change, so in THIS scenario I find myself wishing to get the things we talked about in my previous posts.

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Originally Posted by Sotek

This confuses me, though maybe I'm just tired.

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Basically, If SCH can Accession it all jobs that can use it should be able too.

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Originally Posted by Zhronne

I can understand your stance on SCH vs /SCH, not saying I agree but I can understand it.

Your opinion on the point me and Sotek quoted you makes little sense instead.
FFXI is full of jobs who make better use of JAs/Spells than the job they originally come from.
SCH is one of these examples and has always been like that since it was first introduced, it's part of its "nature".
So I can accept you being against SCH able to accession Haste, but you need to find another reason than "no way SCH can make a spell from another job more effective than it already is on those other jobs".

As for my position on SCH having a couple of uniquely accessionable spells, my argument about it is that I would probably have been against it (for consistancy reason) back at 75 when SCH was the only one who could accession things, and it was part of its unique-ness.
Now everybody can accession stuff, /SCH is more powerful than ever, SCH lost what used to be the main noticeable peculiarity it had (the ability to make spells into AoE) and the 3x recast is not a difference big enough imho.
Having a couple of spells accessionable only by SCH would bring some of that feeling back into SCH.

If their argument against accession+haste is "would be too powerful" then I can agree with such argument if we're talking about all jobs going /SCH, but giving this only to SCH wouldn't be much different to the 3+ mins Hastega that Summoners already get.

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My issue isn't against Haste being Accessionable, I've even asked for it before. My issue is with the "SCH should gain it uniquely" they should never have been able to do it with Phalanx when they made Phalanx II a meritable spell for RDM and weaker than Phalanx let alone doing it again with Haste.

If you want unique spells for Accession, make suggestions for new spells that SCH can get higher than 50 as opposed to asking for a spell that isn't even a spell native to them being Accessionable uniquely. As I said, I don't deny SCH could do it at 75 with Stoneskin, Aquaveil, Phalanx, Gravity and so on.. Only that they shouldn't have been able to.

Triple recast wasn't exactly the gimp though, 2 stratagems is. It effectively works. SCH not being unique enough past level 50 is it's biggest issue. The Regen buff is nice, but ultimately wont change anything.

Personally, two fixes for me that could help would be:

1. Adloquium being 3/tic minimum, upgradeable to 5/tic.
2. The Animus line having additional effects:
   1. Enmity down - Occassionally suppresses all enmity for the next attack.
   2. Enmity up - Occassionally grants a massive enmity boost.

While this doesn't instantly fix SCH, at least it has better uses for 3 of their new spells.

Personally I'd even add a new Stratagem, something like:

Mana Transfer
Consumes "Sublimation" charge to increase the potency/duration of the next spell.

Dark Arts: 50 MAB boost for the next elemental spell cast.
Light Arts: 50% Duration increase for the next spell cast, multiplicative with Perpetuance.

Mana Switch
Transfers "Sublimation" charge onto select party member.

or

Mana Wave
Converts "Stratagem" charge into a non-elemental blast that does damage equal to double the MP charged. (Capable of being upgraded to Triple, even possibly Quadruple)

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Originally Posted by Zhronne

Having a couple of spells accessionable only by SCH would bring some of that feeling back into SCH.

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Ha. There should be no spell that Scholar can Accession that others can't unless only Scholar gets it. The strat timers are what really limits /SCH.

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Originally Posted by Daniel_Hatcher

Triple recast wasn't exactly the gimp though, 2 stratagems is. It effectively works. SCH not being unique enough past level 50 is it's biggest issue.

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Scholar still has Light/Dark weather, and a bunch of gear, and as you said, more stratagems. I would say their stratagem usage rate is what makes them unique, even from /SCH... and I would say this is far more unique then /NIN are from NIN, but we don't hear them complain. Sub jobs are a major part of this game - if anything I would like to see a new set of latent effect gear that boosts sub jobs now that is appropriate for level 99.

Buffs to their enmity spells would be in order, your suggestions aren't the first, but they are decent. SE has said they have no intention of buffing the Regain spell outside of gear.

Personally, for Scholar, something I think would be cool is an update to Immanence that makes it so the weather spell you have up (if different from the spell you are casting) counts as a second element for the purposes of a skillchain (or at very least opening one). I would also like to see some gear that reduces Light Arts / Dark Arts recasts more then just the merits, gear that reduces the penalty of casting magic with the wrong Arts active (perhaps by about half), and other things like this. And while it isn't for Scholar only, I'd like to see the elemental obi merged into one piece of gear, or better yet, into a questable key item - among other gear consolidation methods.

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Originally Posted by Economizer

Ha. There should be no spell that Scholar can Accession that others can't unless only Scholar gets it. The strat timers are what really limits /SCH.



Scholar still has Light/Dark weather, and a bunch of gear, and as you said, more stratagems. I would say their stratagem usage rate is what makes them unique, even from /SCH... and I would say this is far more unique then /NIN are from NIN, but we don't hear them complain. Sub jobs are a major part of this game - if anything I would like to see a new set of latent effect gear that boosts sub jobs now that is appropriate for level 99.

Buffs to their enmity spells would be in order, your suggestions aren't the first, but they are decent. SE has said they have no intention of buffing the Regain spell outside of gear.

Personally, for Scholar, something I think would be cool is an update to Immanence that makes it so the weather spell you have up (if different from the spell you are casting) counts as a second element for the purposes of a skillchain (or at very least opening one). I would also like to see some gear that reduces Light Arts / Dark Arts recasts more then just the merits, gear that reduces the penalty of casting magic with the wrong Arts active (perhaps by about half), and other things like this. And while it isn't for Scholar only, I'd like to see the elemental obi merged into one piece of gear, or better yet, into a questable key item - among other gear consolidation methods.

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Yeah, a belt with:

Gain full benefit of day/weather bonus, would be so cool. Could even do it with the WS gorgets.

I'm not the first nor the last to suggest it (well, maybe making it a key item). Shoot, something like merging it with the Twilight Cape so only that slot was needed would work too, but I'd prefer the key item route.

Well, that, or a Synergy recipe that combines all of them would work... it could be called "Twilight Obi" or something like that.

Same for the gorgets.

Inventory space +9000000 <Yes, Please>

You all seem to forget SCH main gets perpetuance therefore the balance would be thrown off with accession+perp+haste also on the accession RR sch now has RR3 so you want that accessionable why? its a waste of a spell to accession, RR item are easy to buy and in VW you get a scroll as long as you got the periapts every red or white proc hello RR. :p

Scholars can already Perpetuance self-Reraise, but I don't think it affects the duration. Now I could be wrong, but even if it did affect it, it is an hour buff...

As for the other buffs, mobs spam dispels so much these days that a perp strat can be wasted seconds later.

If a mob is dispel happy, i usually just worry about hasting one person (be it the tank or the stunner or the best DD).

In all other situations though, accession haste would be a godsend.

You can't Perpetuance Reraise. You can USE Perpetuance, but it will not take effect on spellcast and will stay active on your Status hub until 60 seconds or another appropriate spell is cast. This is because Reraise is a Healing Magic skill spell, not an Enhancing Magic skill spell.

I'm in favour of making Reraise AoE, as well as Raise. Personally, a lot of us were immensely disappointed when Accession claims it works on Healing Magic spells and yet these two obvious spells were not included. There are other spells which should be added as well. How Hastega?

Overpowered is a word which is thrown around way too often, but the big question I have to ask is what's so overpowered about being able to ressurect yourself after DYING. Most people try to avoid that part in the first place, if only because weakness is such a pain to deal with. Hastega is a spell which is already available by Summoners, and aside from possibly annoying some more vocal SMN players (who have more than enough other useful buffs they could in lieu of Hastega), impacts the game not one iota.

When something says "Makes your Healing/Enhancing magic AoE" I expect it to do just that. Every healing spell, every enhancing spell. If it's good enough to cast on yourself anyway, why does that automatically make it too good to cast on everyone else?

Besides, RDM/SCH with Temper would actually give them a proper use for the spell.

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Originally Posted by Einalem

You can't Perpetuance Reraise. You can USE Perpetuance, but it will not take effect on spellcast and will stay active on your Status hub until 60 seconds or another appropriate spell is cast. This is because Reraise is a Healing Magic skill spell, not an Enhancing Magic skill spell.

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Accession works with healing magic spells too, though.

Accession + Cure IV works.

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Originally Posted by Einalem

You can't Perpetuance Reraise. You can USE Perpetuance, but it will not take effect on spellcast and will stay active on your Status hub until 60 seconds or another appropriate spell is cast. This is because Reraise is a Healing Magic skill spell, not an Enhancing Magic skill spell.

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Accession is:
Extends the effect of your next healing or enhancing white magic spell to party members within range.

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Originally Posted by Seiowan

I'm in favour of making Reraise AoE, as well as Raise. Personally, a lot of us were immensely disappointed when Accession claims it works on Healing Magic spells and yet these two obvious spells were not included. There are other spells which should be added as well. How Hastega?

Overpowered is a word which is thrown around way too often, but the big question I have to ask is what's so overpowered about being able to ressurect yourself after DYING. Most people try to avoid that part in the first place, if only because weakness is such a pain to deal with. Hastega is a spell which is already available by Summoners, and aside from possibly annoying some more vocal SMN players (who have more than enough other useful buffs they could in lieu of Hastega), impacts the game not one iota.

When something says "Makes your Healing/Enhancing magic AoE" I expect it to do just that. Every healing spell, every enhancing spell. If it's good enough to cast on yourself anyway, why does that automatically make it too good to cast on everyone else?

Besides, RDM/SCH with Temper would actually give them a proper use for the spell.

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Overpowered were concerned to Magic is a joke when you consider all it does is save on multiple-casting (cycles) unless it does something truly over-powered by doubling potency the it isn't OP, duration is a joke. so even Accession + Perpetuance (or RDM eAF) is NOT over powered.

I also agree with you on EVERY spell that fits the category should work. This is of anything, even things SCH never gains access too. This is the point of SJ's.

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Originally Posted by Daniel_Hatcher

I also agree with you on EVERY spell that fits the category should work. This is of anything, even things SCH never gains access too. This is the point of SJ's.

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I'm not quite sure... while some spells aren't going to really ever be majorly useful with Accession that SCH doesn't get either (like Cure V/VI being made AoE), you run into issue with things like Temper, which SE never intended for anything other then Red Mage. It might open up interesting tactics, like Sacrifice (shoot, maybe Scholars could get this spell anyways), Raise... and for the Dark Magic equivalents, Warp, Tractor, Drain II, Absorb spells, and more, but perhaps some spells should never be able to be made AoE, perhaps even some of the ones I listed.

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Originally Posted by Economizer

I'm not quite sure... while some spells aren't going to really ever be majorly useful with Accession that SCH doesn't get either (like Cure V/VI being made AoE), you run into issue with things like Temper, which SE never intended for anything other then Red Mage. It might open up interesting tactics, like Sacrifice (shoot, maybe Scholars could get this spell anyways), Raise... and for the Dark Magic equivalents, Warp, Tractor, Drain II, Absorb spells, and more, but perhaps some spells should never be able to be made AoE, perhaps even some of the ones I listed.

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I suppose potency could be limiting, while Warp itself would never work, Drain II could be blocked by being like the Absorb spells in only gaining the bonus of one enemy but draining the Health of all the others. Spells like Temper could be done on a Half Potency basis. While RDM can get 21% DA, Accession DA would only be 10%, but even at 21% other jobs can do that already anyway.

I don't know, I just don't think any spell would be two powerful, or unable to be restricted to give a good bonus, but not an OP one.