any of the new spells worthwhile?

So I've only had a chance to get a few of the new spells so far and have been underwhelmed so far.

Amorphic Spikes - Not better than Gob rush despite similar MP and more hits
Quadrastrike - Not better than QC for 5 set points
Orcish Counterstance - decent MP cost but way too short duration for its casting time

Absolute terror - Good terror effect and decent duration but I assume it won't work on anything that matters

Anyone have any experience with the non-Unbridled learning spells as to whether they take up a new spot in your usual spell list?

Inside abyssea Quadrastrike smashes all our other spells on damage. however it can only critical hit when its under the effect of either Efflux or CA. amorphic spikes i have'nt been impressed with yet but have'nt really tested it that much either. amorphic apparently has a dex and int mod so i probably wont be setting it but it does chain into darkness with CDC.

I've heard some good things on Bloodrake, and it would chain with the new WS for darkness right?

I didn't have razed ruin set when I tried out Quadrastrike so maybe that's why its didn't seem so hot. Had regen atma on as I was in "Learning Blue magic" mode. Will have to try it out with RR.

Any traits that these spells produce or improve?

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Originally Posted by Mirabelle

Any traits that these spells produce or improve?

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I dunno, I'm very surprised no one's found anything and posted it yet.

Information about traits and the usefulness of these spells has been available for a long time.

Traits:
Orcish Counterstance - Counter
Vapor Spray - Max MP
Thunder Breath - Max HP
Wind Breath - Fast Cast
Barbed Crescent - Dual Wield
Amorphic Spikes - Treasure Hunter (Requires only this + the two Gilfinder spells)
Quadrastrike - Skillchain Bonus



Modifiers, short and subjective descriptions:
Quadrastrike
25% STR, 1.25 fTP
Deals moderate to severe physical damage and can crit while under the effect of either Chain Affinity or Efflux (requires a reasonable amount of TP to crit).

Vapor Spray
HP/2. Poison unknown (broken).

Thunder Breath
HP/1.4823 = damage

Orcish Counterstance
1 Minute duration, 10% counter, no reduction of defense (possibly reduction of M.Def) and a separate effect from Counterstance. Doubles damage done on the counter.

Amorphic Spikes
20% DEX/INT, 1.0 fTP
Deals around the same damage as Quadratic Continuum, if not slightly more, and makes Darkness with CDC.

Wind Breath
HP/4

Barbed Crescent
50% DEX, 2.0 fTP
Decent damage. Accuracy down effect is -30 accuracy for 2-3 minutes.


Absolute Terror
Lasts about 20 seconds. Seems to share the same resistance properties as Jettatura i.e. will not land on any NMs.

Gates of Hades
5fTP, 1.0dINT, 20% STR/DEX
The burn effect is 21HP/tic with -45 INT effect to go with it.

Tourbillion
Moderate to severe physical damage along with a 33% DEF down effect that lasts for roughly 2-3 minutes.

Pyric Bulwark
Annuls a single physical attack, regardless of magnitude, after being cast.

Bilgestorm
Low physical damage along with a 25% Attack and DEF down as well as an untested ACC down. Lasts 30-60 seconds.

Bloodrake
30% STR, 1.1875 fTP
Moderate to severe physical damage that drains HP to the caster for the same amount as damage done.

Quadrastrike - Slashing
Barbed Crescent - Slashing
Amorphic Spikes - Piercing
Bloodrake - Slashing
Bilgestorm - Blunt
Tourbillion - Blunt



More detailed analysis:
Quadrastrike - Best physical spell when paired with Efflux. Critical hit rate ignores dDEX, merits, gear, atma and relies entirely on TP, the TP from Efflux (100TP with no empyrean pants, 125 with +1, 150 with +2) provides a substantial critical hit rate. Critical hit damage from gear and atmas is taken into account.

Amorphic Spikes - Roughly equivalent to Quadratic Continuum in damage for less MP, added bonus of making Darkness with Chant du Cygne, making it our strongest Chain Affinity spell when used in a skillchain.

Barbed Crescent - Utility spell, not graded for damage. While that damage is somewhat decent, the real draw is its accuracy down effect. When coupled with Auroral Drape, BLU has access to -90 accuracy in enfeeble effects. When put to use with an Evasion set, BLU gains Top Three status for Evasion.

Orcish Counterstance - Situationally one of our most potent buffs. With just our native Counter trait set, BLU can have a native Counter rate of +/- 20%. With /MNK, BLU has a Counter rate of 60~70%. While the counter rate is nice enough, Orcish Counterstance also doubles the damage of all countered strikes.

Thunder Breath, Wind Breath, and Vapor Spray - Really can't say these are all that great on anything that matters. Most, if not all, NMs added within the last 3 years morbidly resist breath damage.

Absolute Terror - 20 seconds of Terror is okay, problem is it does not work on NMs. To further compound this weakness, other spells that required Unbridled Learning to be active are more effective than Absolute Terror. This spell would have been better suited as a non-Unbridled Learning spell, or perhaps should not have been added at all.

Gates of Hades - The damage is somewhat unremarkable, however the Burn effect is rather potent. Clocking in at 21HP/tic, it also adds a hefty -45INT debuff on the monster for a pretty substantial amount of time.

Tourbillion - One of our most potent spells, not for the damage but for the defense down effect attached. 33.3% defense down is nothing to be scoffed at, especially for its duration.

Bilgestorm - Would have been interesting if not for the incredibly short duration on the debuffs. Overall will not see much use, if ever.

Pyric Bulwark - Situationally useful. Completely annulling an entire physical attack can be useful for countering certain monster abilities, such as 10,000 Needles. Aside from that, however, will see minor use.

Bloodrake - Another of our most powerful spells. It's one of our most powerful physical spells on top of restoring HP based on the damage done.

Thanks Prothscar, that was a great summary. I'll have to do a bit more testing with Quadrastike and amorphic spikes since i didn't see them really up the ante over old spells but I wasn't in my damage atma set at the time.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Mirabelle

Thanks Prothscar, that was a great summary. I'll have to do a bit more testing with Quadrastike and amorphic spikes since i didn't see them really up the ante over old spells but I wasn't in my damage atma set at the time.

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QC and Goblin Rush > Quadrastrike or A.Strike

You're horrendously mistaken.

yes, im am very happy with all the new spells

chante du cynge > amorphic spikes = darkness >> toss in a vapor spray or wind breath after if want, both have a fast cast time. vapor breath is nice dmg, wind breath is much less mp but less dmg

chante du cynge > tourbillion = light

quadra strike and amorphic spikes are nice dmg, and i like to put with quadric continuum (+delta thrust, animating wail, barbed crecent,) you get a nice barrage of spike damage, and daul weild 2 for less points than before
many times when empy farming with linkshell i like minkins razed runes and apoc for the spike damage and backup cure/shadow utility. with new damage spells this atma setup is even better.

not that /war with daul weild 3, triple attack, double attack, and darkness sc, using omnipotent RR apoc inst there to use as well


i like diffusion 1, enchianment 4, assimilation 5
pyric bulwark stacks with diffuse, harden shellga is nice too

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Prothscar

You're horrendously mistaken.

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KParser is up and running, people are free to check for themselves I suppose.

Do it against something worthwhile, I guarantee that Goblin Rush and QC won't be hitting harder than Quadrastrike. Access to Chant du Cygne also increases the value of Amorphic Spikes. Outside of those situations, unless you're using Minikin Monstrosity in outdated content, you wouldn't really be using and of these spells outside of a JA unless zerging down the last 20% of a monster's HP for one reason or another, 'cause Delta Thrust and Heavy Strike are infinitely more tactile than any of the four.

Well for comparisons sake, let me clarify my position:

High Def or High Level mob (outside abyssea)no CA or Efflux: GR (which gets a 35-40% attack bonus) > QC > QS (no crit without CA,Efflux) > Amorphic

High Def/High Lvl (outside, with CA/Efflux): QS > QC = GR > Amorphic

Lower lvl/def (but not a too-weak mob where the attack bonus from GR does nothing), no CA/Efflux: QC > GR > QS = AS

Lower lvl/def w/ CA/Efflux: QC > QS > GR > AS


And I agree that Delta Thrust and Heavy Strike are the most efficient. Heavy Strike with an acc build will compete with the spell above also.


Basically AS is only for darkness, otherwise its spell damage fails in every other senario.
QS has applications, but in situations where it would beat QC, typically switching to a nuking setup would be more ideal.

You're wrong on several counts, and missing information.

1) Goblin Rush's attack bonus is 25%.
2) Quadratic Continuum's attack bonus is 25%.
3) QC is not very much stronger than Amorphic.
4) Amorphic very likely receives a substantial attack bonus. I have not finished testing yet, however signs point toward at least 35%.

You'll never want to be using any of these spells without Efflux or Chain Affinity. QS is ahead of any of these four spells with either of those abilities, provided you have at least 100TP with Chain Affinity+Enchainment. Amorphic Spikes is superior to Goblin Rush in any possible situation, and more efficient than Quadratic Continuum.

3.75fTP 30%STR 30%DEX v. 5fTP 20%DEX 20%INT

Quote:

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1) Goblin Rush's attack bonus is 25%.

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It really is more. I've done a fair amount of testing on it (roughly 1000 casts on the same mob/lvl). You need to find a regular mob with alot of defense, because GR will cap attack on most exp mobs. Or do what I did by gimping skill and STR to lower your att during testing.

Quote:

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4) Amorphic very likely receives a substantial attack bonus. I have not finished testing yet, however signs point toward at least 35%.

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It certainly doesn't get that much bonus w/o CA/Efflux, I did test that; with.....IDK, I'll take your word for it. May work like Vertical Cleave in this respect. If you are doing alot more testing, try to determine +att at various TP levels. I'll take another look at the spell in the capacity of CA/Efflux.


EDIT***Just tested AS a few with CA/Efflux, does certainly get attack bonus and likely an fTP boost as well, the numbers weren't possible with simply capping attack***
Will do extensive testing on some too weak to see if there is an fTP bump, tommorrow when im not dog tired.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Prothscar

Do it against something worthwhile, I guarantee that Goblin Rush and QC won't be hitting harder than Quadrastrike. Access to Chant du Cygne also increases the value of Amorphic Spikes. Outside of those situations, unless you're using Minikin Monstrosity in outdated content, you wouldn't really be using and of these spells outside of a JA unless zerging down the last 20% of a monster's HP for one reason or another, 'cause Delta Thrust and Heavy Strike are infinitely more tactile than any of the four.

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we all know that blue mage outside off abyessea has limited mp.

if you refer to abyessea as outdated content, what are you doing exactly where u are using delta thrust and heavy strike so much? people do "outdated" content all the time. ( i guess you are getting your +5 armor! ) VW u sit there procing, and with access to: daul weild 3, double attack + triple attack store tp 2 all at once with almace khanda chante du cynge spam and amporhic spikes darkness for outside, is heavy strike delta spam then resting for mp really still the way to go??

i hope u have almace 90, and any other lvl 90 empys and/or ochain that u want already before saying aby is outdated lol

also, tactile means that it feels good when u touch it. u meant tactical i guess.

amorphic is about all i've been using since i've gotten it. havent tried quad much at all. barbed sits next to whirl of rage and sudden lunge in my macro book (and i use it far more often).

for unbridled i have used Bilgestrom the most but havent noticed any benefit of doing so. bloodrake hasnt done over 800 for me yet, but i didnt use a gear swap first i just hit unbridled wearing w/e i had on (probably haste gear). am happy to try it again after reading its one of our most powerful.

the +2 armor that helps chain affinity and efflux and going 4/5 enchainment will help your bloodrake numbers get ~1500, and other spells as well will get much more benefit from the tp bonus. i like 1/5 diffusion for pyric bulwarkga and hardenshellga

Quote:

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Originally Posted by dragoon_apprentice

we all know that blue mage outside off abyessea has limited mp.

if you refer to abyessea as outdated content, what are you doing exactly where u are using delta thrust and heavy strike so much? people do "outdated" content all the time. ( i guess you are getting your +5 armor! ) VW u sit there procing, and with access to: daul weild 3, double attack + triple attack store tp 2 all at once with almace khanda chante du cynge spam and amporhic spikes darkness for outside, is heavy strike delta spam then resting for mp really still the way to go??

i hope u have almace 90, and any other lvl 90 empys and/or ochain that u want already before saying aby is outdated lol

also, tactile means that it feels good when u touch it. u meant tactical i guess.

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Abyssea is outdated. Anything outside of Abyssea, or even inside of Abyssea if you have an Almace and are using proper atmas, will favor Heavy Strike and Delta Thrust whenever you're using physical spells in terms of efficiency. The proccing issues in Voidwatch have been, for the most part, mitigated by the new periapt that lists which type of magic the monster is vulnerable to. On the monsters that are resistant to magical damage, I'll toss aside Dark orb, Everyone's grudge, Regurgitation, and Corrosive ooze in favor of physical spells such as Delta Thrust and Heavy Strike, and there are plenty of those monsters within Voidwatch.

Khanda is useless. If you have to rest for MP after using Delta Thrust and Heavy Strike then I don't know what to tell you, but I would suggest you reconsider your playstyle.

Not having every empyrean weapon does not make Abyssea any less outdated, it is outdated content.

And yes, tactical. It was actually meant to say "tactically superior," so not sure why I said tactile. FFXI: Tactile Feedback Edition coming to iPhone. wait...

btw Requiescat opens darkness for Bloodrake, ive seen upwards of 3k blood rakes in abyssea, and 2k outside.

Abyssea it not outdated content. Players are actively playing abyssea every day for gear/content etc that is relevant in any of the most recent content (VW).

If abyssea gear was all surpassed by newer gear, you might have a 1/2 a case for saying its outdated.

Abyssea has very little content, but lots of gear. To correct you of sorts. Regardless, it's still more active then anywhere else.
And I didn't notice any new gear outdating mavi+2.

The content itself is outdated. There's plenty of good gear from Sky with augments, doesn't make the event any less outdated, it just makes the gear less outdated. The content itself is level 90~95 content.

Would also argue that Voidwatch is close to the activity of or perhaps slightly more active than Abyssea at this point, unless we're counting EXP parties.

Did some testing now that I have Tourbillion (finally), fTP is 4 (likely) and STR mod 35ish%

Did some testing on attack bonus for Amorphic. Looks like 25% same as QC.

Thanks Doc, always appreciate your hard efforts.

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I'm very happy with the new spells we've gotten from this update. I feel like the best thing we've been given is more options. I find myself never able to always equip what I want so I end up mixing things up, and trying new things all the time. Blue Mage has really been played a good hand.

Plus, I'm surprised noones mentioned Spike Flail.

I don't know why they gave us new breath spells. It's like they are mocking us.

The new spells are nice, but Barbed Crescent is far from beeing a range attack. Description says its a range attack, but its range is as far as Head Butt.