Would Immanence on DRK get you casting?

So if DRK got a ja somewhere along the lines of immanence where you could chain with your own spells, and maybe give some amount of mag att would you cast more?

Or maybe make a job ability that absorbs your last 2 casts elements in a "charge" phase then gives a chainbound effect mixing those 2 elements in a "use" phase.

If i had that id be casting much more.

Lower recast on drain/drain 2, dread spikes so that they are a viable way to heal up after taking the large amounts of damage the Dev team is forcing us to take with scarlett delirium..

Having my elemental tier 3 nukes do more then 200 damage.

Fix occult acumen so that said nukes return the same amount of TP as the swing/swings I lose while casting.

Give me an actual dark knight nuke, not some rdm tier magic attackless scraps.

Make Absorbs not diminish.

Magic Attack Bonus.

But most of all what would make me cast is a good reason to do it.

Wouldn't being able to perform a light or darkness skillchain be a good enough reason?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Rampage

Wouldn't being able to perform a light or darkness skillchain be a good enough reason?

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You do know you can't create a T3 skillchain with Immanence, right? Spells are all single-property so the best they can do is a T2. You'd still be better off not casting.

perma quick cast might

This wouldnt be exactly immanence, you can have an ability like immanence OR you can have a charge ability where you mix two spells then activate a chainbound effect with those two spells elements, then put your WS on top of that to get light or darkness.

The idea is to have dark use their low tier elemental nukes for something other than just spell damage, which is obviously not going to happen with low tier (without lots of help from MAB etc.) And could give drk a fun twist.

Well as it stands right now casting delays your race to WS, so I dont understand what you mean by that.

Absorb-TP? lolnuke MB?

Ok so ability would work like this:
/ja Dark Immanence >> activates "charge phase" >> cast fire II >> cast aero II >> now darkimmanence has fire and wind properties >> /ja "dark immanence" <t> >> Enemy is chainbound >> use weaponskill = skillchain

Thats like telling rdm to swing his staff a couple times to make a nuke a little stronger.

Our magical foundation needs to be strengthen before we stack more things on it, and that includes new spells.

Death- any spell that instantly KO's will have to be nerfed to near oblivion. Why more useless impractical spells?
Doom-same as above.
Immanence- level 2 SC is hardly worth all that, they should fix our job before polluting it with other jobs crappy mechanics.

drk's don't want to cast elemental magic, it slows down their dps. If SE wants more DRK casting then give drk more dark magic specific spells and enfeebles, death, doom, terror, stun2, bio 3, darkness (the drk version of holy with attack down instead of defense down like banish), darkness 2, en-plague or plague, void (AOE dark damage with bio and poison, can give to blm if you like and high magic cost is fine, just make spells that do something, better drk have a few high damage dark based nukes then a bunch of crappy low tier elemental spells)

The crappy mechanics comment made me laugh lol. But come on, even if our nukes were decent would you cast them? when you can do more damage swinging and WSing? What they need to do for DRK nuke casting is give it some kind of different functionality.

I actually really like the idea of the chainbound charge thing. Here's a suggestion, DRK has always been about sacrificing something to gain abilities right? how about we make that work for us for once?

double the spell cost of your next two spells (increased strain on the DRKs mind) and in return we get a chainbound effect with the elements of the two spells like you suggested.

I can see this working for us because the increased spell cost would give us a better tp return from occult acumen, MaB from scarlet delirium would give the spells a better dmg output, we could then work out the SC elements of entropy, get the SC elements from casting spells to make darkness with it, entropy would have returned our mp and we could magic burst drain 2 to get our hp back from whatever hit us to charge scarlet delirium.

So yeah, I like the chainbound JA idea i could see a use for it.

I would use them if they came close to what my ninja can do with its spells....

can DRK say it can break 1k 2k nuke? 800? 600....? pics or it didn't happen...

i know ninja can merit the effects of each spell but its the idea of a melee that can stop hitting and nuke stuff fast and hard enough to justify it not swinging to 100TP that gets me thinking more and more DRK magic needs a boost.

Its just so easy for my other jobs to do damage, my warrior farts 4k WS even when i don't macro in WS gear...
my ninja can do it both weather its melee DPS big WS or nuking DPS ending in super nuke Futae for 1 or 1.5k dmg.

Yeah the more i think about it the more it becomes more clear DRK needs it and from what i just read they are looking into dark knights magic so i'm optimistic about all of this now since they mostly mentioned adjustments and not the additions of crazy spells and job abilities people want so much which i at this point would only consider to be clutter if the foundations aren't adjusted.

^^b

Elemental Magic for DRK is not a nuke 1st off.
Secondly even tho I love Casting on DRK i must admiot Dark Magic Cast time Is slow... unlike Blm, Drk is heavily Reliant on its melee Damage for it to cast so long, even blue magic casts faster then Dark. They simply could add a Celrity that Reduces Dark Magic Cast Time And Recast and casting on DRK would less of an issue.

Also Immanence Would not benefit Drk, A Dark Magic Spell That Chain Bound the Enemy and did some DMg would be better.

Also Drks would benefit more from SC's If they had a fast casting spell that Did worthwhile Damage to MB with even if it was only Dark Element I have never Magicburst any spell on DRK other than Drain.

The reason why i suggested elemental magic for the chainbound is because well . . . Its elemental so it makes sense to make the nukes work for you in adifferent way. It shouldnt be just as easy as casting a single spell because thats just the equivalent of getting kozen-ittai. Would be awesome, but i dont think they would ever make it that easy for us

I think everyone agrees that we need a darkmagic spell along the lines of anti-holy for some damage / tp. And i agree that if we had it we could make MBs with darkness, but i would like to see DRK be able to make SC with itself. I think it makes sense in the context of the job, that we can manipulate magic and melee to do our bidding.

@cabalabob. i like the idea of making it cost double mp, that way u can bridge the extra gap on tp to make the ws.
Could be like:
Dark immanence:
DRK 99
Description: Spells cost double mp, casting time is reduced by half. Elemental spells used ready target for skillchain.

I can do 4.8k Impacts to Buffaloes, or 2.1k Blizzard III's in to buffalos in abyssea with magic atmas on when I'm skilling my magic for completion sake, without the correlating HQ stave. That's pretty good for DRK.

Outside I can do 600-700 tier III on exp mobs no staff, and it depends on NM's due to their magical resistance etc.

The potential for Dark Knight doing good damage is there, but it has about 5% synergy with our melee capacity.

SE needs to abandon this idea of DRK doing long cast time short recast elemental nukes and simply give DRK quick casting high cool down magic that benefits greatly from OA and fuels our TP for WS.

I actually posted this idea in a different thread back in September. To cut/paste my version:

Quote:

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Name: <Unknown>
Lv: 65
Duration: 30 seconds
Recast: 180 seconds (3 mins)
Description: Makes it possible for your elemental or damage dealing dark magic spells to be used in a skillchain, but not a magic burst.

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Lv65 because that's when SAM gets their chainbound skill. 30 seconds because that's enough time to get at least one SC in there. 3 mins recast because Meditate and their chainbound skill are also 3 mins, so it feels right. The main difference between SCH's strategem and this is that it lasts for 30 seconds instead of a single spell, and it works with Dark Magic spells like Drain and Bio.

I think a lot of people are underestimating how powerful and useful this can be. And the ability doesn't really need to give us a stored chainbound effect either... You can just use the resulting skillchains from the spells themselves.

For example, on Scholar I can solo Darkness and Light SCs if I want. Like so:

Luminohelix > Some Stone spell = Distortion > Omniscience/Retribution = Darkness

If DRK has this ability, the following would also be possible:

Aero III > Drain II = Gravitation > Torcleaver = Darkness

If cast times are a problem, then just use Aero1 and Bio1 or something to get the same result. Anyways, the usefulness comes from the extra damage gained from the resulting Darkness SC in that combo above. Since Aero and Drain create Gravitation, Darkness will do 150% of the damage caused by Torcleaver (unresisted of course). So if you're doing 2500 Torcleavers outside Abyssea, you'll get 3750 Darkness SCs for a total of 6250. I'm pretty sure that extra Darkness damage will usually make up for whatever time is lost casting, so the ability is pretty darn useful if you ask me.

Wow you have SCs figured out and everything lol.

I agree with urteil that elemental magic is already where it needs to be, something that would speed up casting at the cost of increased mp would be cool for us. Especially if we had this imanence like ability.

I'm kinda surprised no one has mentioned this yet, and while this wouldn't really be a fix, it would be a step in the right direction. Can we finally have the double cast/recast time removed from hasso/seigan? Would make a world of difference even on the few select spells we do cast, like drain/drain2 and stun. I mean sure we can click it off before casting, but tell me that doesn't get tedious?

I don't see why dark knight need to skill chain (even if it is with magic) by themselves in the first place nor use magic to skill chain. Not to shoot down any ideas but Sam is the SC job, and its dmg is reliant on it, I don't see how does SCin with magic applies to DRK's concept at all...
I would more simply like a spell that I can magic burst for reasonable damage and at least debuff the mob/Buffs myself in a significant manner that benefits the whole pt rather than just myself. That probably would be impact but impact Cast time is horrible which the whole spell just seems to me to be SE's version of spitting in DRK's face (yet again) with its ridiculous mp/cast time.

They could have made it a scroll drop exclusive to drk, but nope. SCH and BLM gets much more mileage out of it (as usual).

Same can be said about Bio 3...Which the devs really didn't plan out very well, and added a stupid scythe WS (Infernal Scythe) To try to repair that damage in the most fail way (Infernal Scythe basically does all Bio3's dmg all in one shot for 100 tp).

The whole SC with magic thing just steps on SCH's toes, and honestly I don't think it would resolve Drk's DPS issues (even tho they aren't really 'issues'). It seems every time They add a spell that Dark Magic (Bio 3/Kaustra) or spells that SHOULD BE Dark Magic (Break/Gravity a.k.a Demi) Drk always gets screwed over in favor of getting 'elemental magic'. If you can add Protect V to every buffing job's arsenal there's no reason for you not to add Bio 3 into Drk's arsenal. Among Other things they previously nerfed Absorb TP hard way back when which I think wasn't deserved from 100% TP to 50% TP and I'm not even sure if Nether Void Corrects that but it down really doesn't matter cause who would ever waste it on that, and Absorb spells are poorly done. Then give a bunch jobs plague/hinder TP moves like its CANDY.

I dunno whether or not it would be simpler for them to go back and correct these things on DRK, but DRK's Dark Magic should be adjusted so that the effects they have on a target are potent. I don't see why would it hurt for Absorb spells like Absorb-Str (as well as be stronger and non deteriorating) to do a little "drain" dmg as well just so Occult Accumen has some use, or just Occult Accumen work on all Dark magic without doing the damage. But yet again it was another JA to benefit casters more then drk, just thrown in the DRK tree all nonchalantly without purpose.

Besides Death and Doom there's no Reincarnated Dark magic left for DRK knight (besides confuse which i never seen in game).... this team failed dark knight horribly when they cut off dark knights roots in dark magic, instead to give stuff to casters whose main proficiency isn't in that branch, or simply crap that don't make sense and now can't be undone.... Even the spell Temper probably would have been better off in drk's arsenal, was pawned off yet to another caster. (yes i know its enhancing magic but they could've made it dark)

This whole lets make DRk's stronger when their HP is low nonsense is BS, cause it actually supposed to be DRKs are stronger with MORE HP not LESS... but yay SE for that?

All being said SE's real problem with Drk's not using magic is the basic fact the dev team continuously denies drk any reliable/potent magic to give use useless 'elemental' magic. And as nice as that scing with elemental magic idea sounds it would be overpowered... cause you could just simply continue SC with tier one elements for 30s for a huge SC if u know you elemental reel I.E.

Water1 >> Bliz. 1 >> Induration >> Thunder1 >> Impaction >> Fire1 >> Liquification >> Stone 1 >> Scission >> Aero 1 >> Detonation >> Bio >> Gravitation >> Relic/EMP ws And If your Sub Sam... Relic/Emp WS again... what is that 7 SC's every 3 minutes, just by drk and that's not including those who follow after, then simply regain all that MP back with Entropy?

Don't you think that would be utterly replacing Sam's role as a SC 'master' much?

People may disagree with my opinion but I think DRK should have always been about DRK/Enfeebling magic from the get go. the same way pld relies on heals and buffs primarily and divine magic so much other than flash.

The Dev team really has no idea where they are going with Dark's magical side last I heard they wanted to make DRKS better at stunning, when we already have blus, rdms and smns for that. Really its simple... make DRK's better at debuffing Enemys with their unique magic, and stregnthening themselves please?

A JT I would have loved to seen on DRK is something that increase TP gain/Attack Speed/Crit Rate & dmg/Casting Speed by the amount of remaining HP % the drk have. The closest thing we got to it was the fail AF3 set which is sad. anyways I'm done with my rant at how inconsiderate the devs are about their own design and the historical concept behind this job in particular.

I agree that DRK should be a frontline melee/enfeebler job, of course. I actually think this was what NIN's original concept was, but we know what happened there. It's not too late for DRK though. I have some ideas for that too, but before I get to that...

I don't think the SC JA really steps on SCHs toes, and I'm a 99 SCH (And love the job too). The thing with SCH is that all their strategems are kinda pulled from other JAs that other jobs have. Like Rapture is a mini Divine Seal, Ebullience just gives extra MAB, Alacrity and Celerity are just one time fast casts, Perpetuance is really just a weaker composure. Just their ability to AoE stuff is really original, and other jobs get that from doing /sch. Even so, the recent changes to Regen an the Helix spells have made SCH into a whole new thing, and I'm loving it.

Also, I don't think you can do more than 6 skillchains in a row, unless I'm mistaken. And the skillchain you posted would rather weak due to the low damage from the spells except for the final SCs done by the WS, which isn't really any different than what a BLU gets when they SC (One big boom). Plenty of jobs can self SC already. SAM is still the king of SCs because a SAMs SCs just don't suck. It's kinda like saying RDM, or DRK for that matter, can compete with BLM just because they have elemental spells. We both know that's nonsense.

But I can tell most DRKs aren't really into this idea, and I'm not gonna be all gung-ho for it either. It's really just a neat concept that'd be fun to use from time to time. I think it'd be good, but I can't see SE ever adding it.

So with that out of the way, I have some enfeebling ideas that can be used along with the elemental spells too. I was thinking we could have a JA that, while active, allows the elemental spells to inflict an enfeebling effect based on the element of the spell cast. For example:

Stone: Accuracy Down or Slow
Water: Attack Down or Poison
Aero: Defense Down or Silence
Fire: Magic Attack Down or Plague
Blizzard: Evasion Down or Paralyze
Thunder: Magic DEF Down or Potent Stun

The higher the spell tier the longer and more potent the enfeebling effect. Now frankly, I'd rather have absorbs that steal those stats, like Absorb-ATK for Attack Down, Absorb-MDEF for Magic DEF Down, which leaves us with the more basic enfeebling effects (Which also lets us get Plague from Fire spells).

The reason I'm focusing so much on the elemental spells is because they ARE a useless part of our job. They can do "average" damage with the right gear, but the only time you'd really use them is if you're fighting something like an elemental, which rarely happens. A SC or Enfeebling JA would add some incentive to use them, which I think is a good thing. Fact is, we got elemental spells, so instead of resigning to the fact that they're crap, we should try to find ways to make them useful. That's what I think, anyways.