Ruinator

some testing on dynamis mobs in qufim at 99 with the typical rampage setup which isnt STR heavy has me doing 2500-2900 ruinator's. prayers have been answered

This looks like a really nice WS for bst. The best Rampages I was getting dynamis were around 1800 at level 95.

I'll test some myself later as well, but it looks like its not a big improvement in abyssea. No crit, methinks?

It's TP modifier is "Accuracy varies with TP." which is pretty much the most mediocre thing possible.

However, the 85~100% STR modifier that Ruinator possesses with 5/5 merits more than than makes up for that. Well, that and being named "Ruinator".

Can someone fight lvl 1 mobs using /THF naked other than an axe, post your STR, weapon damage, then SA/WS. Post the numbers you get. Then we can figure out the fTP.

New Weapon Skill Videos (Incl. Slow Motion)

Beastmaster ~ Ruinator
Video: Beastmaster (720p)

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Originally Posted by Camate

Hey everyone, we’ve been looking over your feedback and wanted to give more details in the thought process behind our changes and some of the weapon skills themselves.
　　
Axe Weapon Skill “Ruinator”
We will be lowering the attack modifier value and changing it so it’s half of the current value. The amount of damage dealt to high level enemies (those that have high defense) will be reduced, however, being able to deal damage easier than other axe weapon skills will remain unchanged.

We are making it so that the amount of damage will be around the same as Rampage if you have full accuracy and get 2-3 criticals. (This is when both of them are executed at 100 TP. There is of course more damage that can be dealt depending on gear and food.)

We are making adjustments so that you can pick Ruinator if you want to deal more consistent damage, or Rampage if you want to try and deal large amounts of damage.
　
Club Weapon Skill “Realm Razer”
The idea behind the adjustment is the same as Ruinator.

We are making it so that the amount of damage will be around the same as Hexa Strike if you have full accuracy and get 2-3 criticals. Again, this is for 100 TP and more damage can be dealt depending on gear and food.

We ultimately decided to adjust this weapon skill due to the fact that a non-critical hit modifier weapon skill would easily surpass the maximum damage dealt by Hexa Strike in stable conditions, and the result would cause a rapid increase in damage inflation.
　　
Sword Weapon Skill “Requiescat”
Since Spirits Within’s damage varies based on your amount of HP and TP, we are adjusting Requiescat so that it will be easier to use than Spirits Within once you have 300 TP and also so that jobs that cannot boost their HP as high as paladins will be able to deal damage.

Also, Atonement is an easy to use weapon skill for paladins, which has a special feature, so the idea behind Requiescat was to give jobs other than paladin, specifically red mage and blue mage, a good weapon skill choice.
　
　
Hand-to-Hand Weapon Skill “Shijin Spiral”
There have been requests saying that this is weaker than Stringing Pummel and Victory Smite, so please make it stronger than both of those, but we cannot do this for the same reasons listed for our adjustments to Ruinator and Realm Razer.

We have also received some comments saying that the damage of Shijin Spiral is no different than Asuran Fists, or perhaps lower.

We took a look at the conditions of the players who performed weapon skill tests, but there are differences in attack power when executing each weapon skill, and because of this the result was that Asuran Fists and Victory Smite was higher.

Shijin Spiral is stronger than Asuran Fists and when boosting your stats using the appropriate equipment and food, the differences between Asuran Fists and Shijin Spiral will become more apparent, and the gap between Victory Smite and Shijin Spiral will also become smaller.

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Owned! O.O

Cause god forbid a new ws be stronger than an old outdated one right?

Why? bst can't do anything close to the WS damage of other jobs as it is.

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Originally Posted by Xilk

Why? bst can't do anything close to the WS damage of other jobs as it is.

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You look surprised. I think its clear SE has no intentions of ever giving bst anything remotely useful against anything that cons higher than Even Match. Well, there is Abyssea, but they already acknowledged that was a mistake.

Well that settles it. I quit bst <_< I've been meaning to focus more on my Corsair anyway.

Like SE will listen to or care what the paying customers think. It is only a job ability or weapon skill does it cost SE more if they let bst have a bit more. Oh well this new weapon skill was my saving grace so i think i'm leaving this game. :(

so Ive been testing Ruinator in namis and on some normal non abyssea NMs, Ruinator seems to avg about 2000-3000 dmg.
Could prolly push it higher, Im currently WSing in my Onslaught gear so I havent tried a Dedicated STR build.

So it hasn't been nerfed that much if at all?

It was the attack mod that was changed, so that is going to have to be tested though that is going to be tougher to test. Need to test it on something where your attack isn't capped where we can see if we have some sort of attack boost or penalty.

I was fighting T+ things from random GOV areas just to mess around helping people farm for LB items. I know it's not a good test lol but two points in Ruinator was doing just about what my normal rampage was doing on T mobs. Dont know if that helps or not but that's what I have noticed. It was either doing the same or comparable damage or doing a bit less. Mostly just wsing in str gear. I don't see how three more points in Ruinator wont make it stronger than rampage honestly. Maybe someone that has full 5 points can do a better test. Kinda strapped for time. Just what I noticed. So far happy with it. Whenever I get to putting more points in I'll mess around some more.

im actually not going to open this WS seeing as how i only use beastmaster to fight those annoying mobs that beast can solo titlacuan and the dam grauberg dragon

well I was fighting EP abyssea worms today and hit 5544 with it. normal ruinators attacks were 3.5k+

With Ruinator fully unlocked, it's much more stronger than rampage. Inside and outside abyssea. At 3 points I was doing the same damage as rampage and more and with 5 points in it I was doing more damage then rampage. Inside abyssea if I took RR, Stout Arm, and VV my str was about 209 +83 and with 5 points in ruinator I was doing more damage then rampage all the time. I took out Stout Arm and replaced with GH to see if the crit rate added more damage for rampage which it did, but ruinator damage was still higher. Also noticed I did more damage consistently with a ws gorget then just a regular str neck piece.

yeah, I can't even imagine how strong this ws was before it was gimped

this ws has me scratching my head about what to use for leg piece. I've been using crit damage augmented kitty pants for rampage and other multihit crit ws's. but kitty pants do nothing for ruinator. I grabbed a pair of teutates to use w/ cloudsplitter... let me know if we've received a better str leg piece when I wasn't looking. However this IS a multi-hit WS and ACC is important... so the acc penalty on teutates is a problem. any good ideas what to use in leg slot for this?

Check out the new leg piece Avant Cuisses NQ is +7 STR +10 attack +20 hp, the HQ is STR+8, attack+15, DA+2, HP+25. The NQ doesn't cost much and I am sure will drop in price after it's been out for a while as it's crafted.

I'm still leery that Ruinator has an attack penalty that will become apparent the instant it's used on a Voidwatch higher-up or simply hasn't been adjusted yet because the Development Bros are forgetful creatures. I'll be pleasantly surprised if it turns out that Ruinator had an attack boost originally and that was removed or that the fTP was just lowered a bit.

It's very rare that the Development Bros say "We're going to make this thing worse." and then fail to make that thing noticeably worse.

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Originally Posted by darkhorror

Check out the new leg piece Avant Cuisses NQ is +7 STR +10 attack +20 hp, the HQ is STR+8, attack+15, DA+2, HP+25. The NQ doesn't cost much and I am sure will drop in price after it's been out for a while as it's crafted.

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Also, they're made using Synergy from materials that are dirt cheap. So if you have a bro or bro-ette who is into Synergy and has the right crafts, getting the +1's for very little cost is very possible.

I use the NQ Avant Cuisses for a WS piece now. Before that I used Jingang Hose. When I have more gil I'll probably invest in the HQ one at some point. I'm happy with Ruinator. Fully merited it always does more then Rampage on anything from EP to IT. What annoys me sometimes is that it I have seen spikes close to what my DRK can do on Torcleaver inside and outside Abyssea save triple and double procs lol Either way, I'm happy with it and if you spend a lot of time on bst I'd recommend getting it.

5/5 unlocked for this weaponskill and using strength build i was doing 1000-1450 almost every time with spike dmg weaponskills at 2500 about every 10 weaponskills inside dynamis on ep mobs. Rampage was doing 800-1500 with spike dmg around 2k on same mobs. The 5/5 was unlocked in an afternoon, so I believe it was worth it. The consistency of the dot makes it worth it to me. Now i will try to get the best ws setup and do some more test with different gear swaps.

I still dont understands why people still think it's worth getting other than what else would anyone do with all the overflowing EXP/Limit Points when your 1million LP ws only matches up to a WS that we've learned many levels ago.

Yes, it gives you somewhat more options but for 1million LPs?

A million takes at most 3 to 4 hours with a good abyessa pt. Stop complaining.

Thankx, avant+1 definitely look like the way to go. the avant are good enough until the +1's pop up. I'll completely drop the teutates for these as well.

funny thing, on the jingang hose, I saw the zanshin effect and thought "not for bst" so I completely forgot they even existed.
Althogh recently I upgraded my sam to subjot levels jsut to tinker around w/ bst/sam and 2-handing..

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Originally Posted by SpankWustler

So if you have a bro or bro-ette

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pardon me. Hijacking this thread to profess my undying love for you.

I kind of wanted to use bst/sam or bst/sch to mess around with entropy just for sh*ts and giggles lol I have more other important things I should do before I do something as silly as that though.

5/5 Merits for a ws isn't that long to do lol I have work, school, gym, going out, visiting family for the holidays and still found time to do it in two good sittings for a few hours each time. How is that not worth it for a better ws which I feel has better skill chain properties then just simple old rampage and does consistently more damage.

Don't really play DRK much anymore so I might shoot for Tachi Shoha, then shun, the polearm one, or maybe apex arrow.

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Originally Posted by Dreamin

I still dont understands why people still think it's worth getting other than what else would anyone do with all the overflowing EXP/Limit Points when your 1million LP ws only matches up to a WS that we've learned many levels ago.

Yes, it gives you somewhat more options but for 1million LPs?

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It's generally better than Rampage. It's certainly not as much better as I'd hoped, but it is better in many situations which is more than can be said for options like Requiscat.

Ruinator is not the awesome weaponskill I was hoping for after eons of disappointing or situational axe weaponskills. It's not the improve that Last Stand or Tachi: Shoha are. Still, better is better, whether it's by 50% or just 10%. I'll eventually be upgrading it because it's better.

Also, I've read that gorgets and belts increase the fTP of all hits of Ruinator. The testing gives me a wobbly feeling because it also shows that the fTP remains 1.0, which would make Ruinator the first example of this phenomena in a weaponskill without a <1 fTP value. Nothing about the test seemed suspect, though, so hopefully Ruinator is just special.

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Originally Posted by SpankWustler

It's generally better than Rampage. It's certainly not as much better as I'd hoped, but it is better in many situations which is more than can be said for options like Requiscat.

Ruinator is not the awesome weaponskill I was hoping for after eons of disappointing or situational axe weaponskills. It's not the improve that Last Stand or Tachi: Shoha are. Still, better is better, whether it's by 50% or just 10%. I'll eventually be upgrading it because it's better.

Also, I've read that gorgets and belts increase the fTP of all hits of Ruinator. The testing gives me a wobbly feeling because it also shows that the fTP remains 1.0, which would make Ruinator the first example of this phenomena in a weaponskill without a <1 fTP value. Nothing about the test seemed suspect, though, so hopefully Ruinator is just special.

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You are forgetting last stand which has ftp of 2 and it applies to all hits.

From what I am seeing the gorget and belt works on all hits.

I supposed 1mil merit points would be better than maybe setting up these ws as BCNM quests that would require 18 ppl to fight (each needing an entry item), special proc conditions during fight with 1 win resulting in only 1 item that can then be used to upgrade 'a' specific WS 1 time. So you'll need to do that 5x to max 1 ws to max levels. For 18 people, that would be 18x5 = 80 BCNM fights.

Did I just figure out a better/longer way for SE to give us TIME SINK?

I am hoping that this is only the first part and down the road we can adjust these ws's even further.

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Originally Posted by darkhorror

I am hoping that this is only the first part and down the road we can adjust these ws's even further.

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Yes and no, because i nkow I will max 3 of them, they will turn around and screw up two of those ws so then i have to unmerit them and level a whole other group.

which they will do just to stretch out the game some more

Is it better off to just straight out stack strength for this ws? Would wearing the ferine gausape +2 and trying to stack the killer effect bonus be a good idea? Would beast trousers +1 (with its added killer effects %) be on par with avant cuisses (the nq)?

I played around with 5/5 ruinator on em/t verglas golems (mostly because I know what my rampage looks like on them) and there still seemed to be a wide range of damage (from 1400 low to 3100 high with rr/apoc/mounted champ, my standard bst set in Abyssea) so I'm not sure I would call it a "consistent" ws. Does ruinator crit or double attack?

Sorry for all the questions but I really want to make a good ws set for this and I'm not familiar with all ins-and-outs of it yet.

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Originally Posted by Aldersyde

Is it better off to just straight out stack strength for this ws? Would wearing the ferine gausape +2 and trying to stack the killer effect bonus be a good idea? Would beast trousers +1 (with its added killer effects %) be on par with avant cuisses (the nq)?

I played around with 5/5 ruinator on em/t verglas golems (mostly because I know what my rampage looks like on them) and there still seemed to be a wide range of damage (from 1400 low to 3100 high with rr/apoc/mounted champ, my standard bst set in Abyssea) so I'm not sure I would call it a "consistent" ws. Does ruinator crit or double attack?

Sorry for all the questions but I really want to make a good ws set for this and I'm not familiar with all ins-and-outs of it yet.

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with the 100% str mod and the current alpha value, this ws effectively converts 85% of your total STR into your weapon damage. It is a multi hit ws though so you'll not want to go balls-to-the-wall-sam-ws style, you'll want to make sure you at least have positive accuracy from your ws set. Vs something EM~T, you wouldn't need much in the way of +acc, unless the EM~T thing was like... a gnat, since they have insane evasion. You would want at least some for VT~IT mobs, and a bit more for higher level NMs.

Also, no it does not crit. No weapon skill crits unless it expressly says "critical hit rate varies with TP" (except true strike, because true strike is special and ALWAYS crits). The only way to make a non-crit ws crit is with sneak attack, the dnc-sneak attack, or mighty strikes. It can double/triple attack, though.

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Originally Posted by darkhorror

You are forgetting last stand which has ftp of 2 and it applies to all hits.

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Oh, right. Jishnu's Radiance seems the same, also, now that I think about it.

So it's not a new thing really, just unexpected because this weaponskill isn't ranged. This gives me more confidence that it won't be "balanced" again later.

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Originally Posted by Aldersyde

I played around with 5/5 ruinator on em/t verglas golems (mostly because I know what my rampage looks like on them) and there still seemed to be a wide range of damage (from 1400 low to 3100 high with rr/apoc/mounted champ, my standard bst set in Abyssea) so I'm not sure I would call it a "consistent" ws. Does ruinator crit or double attack?

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Since it's only four (five with dual wield) hits, Double Attack and Triple Attack can activate on Ruinator. As with any weaponskill that is fewer than eight hits.

Ruinator can not critical without Sneak Attack. As with any weaponskill that doesn't mention critical hits in the description.

I assume the huge range was from Triple Attack kicking in on the high-end result, and a missed hit on the low-end results. Also, not having super-high attack may have contributed to the large range.

As for the Ferine Gausape +2, it should be worthwhile while Killer Instinct is up even if it's beaten by Twilight Mail or Avant Mail +1 or something otherwise. Similarly, if Ferine Gausape +2 wins with only normal killer effects in effect, it's best to also have a set for stuff you have no killer effect against.

So, I'd say the Avant Cuisses are worth picking up for an alternate set even if Beast Trousers +1 win out when you can take advantage of Killer Effects.

I can't really say which set will straight-up win, sadly, but I hope this general advice was helpful. Also, somebody please correct me if Killer Instinct counts towards the +25% cap and actually makes the Ferine Gausape +2 less useful while it's active rather than more.

I was under the impression that the ki from beast trousers was still not functioning all the time. Unless it has been corrected recently, and I missed it.

Actually I think Bryth's full analysis of the killer effects answers why we got inconsistent information from the beast trousers.
They probably only add +1 to killer effects. So w/ gausape its 1/2 mod to damage. This won't show up unless you have another odd number boost to killer effects for the other 1/2 percent.