[dev1053] New dungeon crawl system

First of all, thanks se for this old school idea, i love it.
I don't know what you have in mind with this so i'll just day dream a bit and call that feedback. Hopefully more players will share their ideas, but for now these is what i got:

Please no proc system or atma/atmacite, keep it simple and difficult like dungeon crawler should be, no temps, no time limit, 6 players (only 6 nothing more nothing less) and a lot of floors to explore (maybe with continue option every 20 or something, like nyzul, but even without it's fine). Fill the dungeons with: trap door (like the ones in castle oztroja), door and chest locked that need key dropped from monsters or NM to be opened, mimic, fake walls that leads to secret area, large rooms with a lot of monsters, labyrinthic tunnels with roaming nm, ??? that gives hint on what to do to advance to the next floor or found treasures etc.
I don't know if can be done with the game engine, but having a map that reveals itselfs while you navigate the enviroment should be good, if not possible just no map will work fine. I hope this will be something really really hard even if you have empyrean/relic/mythic weapons and other great gears, so everything must be well thought, with good use for foods, medicines and strategy. If even regular monsters can be a challenge maybe this will lead into choose what worth to kill and what it's better to avoid (or try to avoid) and kill later. I also hope that any jobs can be useful if the party is assembled properly (damage type resistance or immunity can help a bit).
The most important thing is to have very good loots on this, i don't care that much but most people do and i don't wanna see another Moblin Maze Mongers (great event, lot of fun, but few people to play), also if floor advancement/rewards/difficulty are well balanced there will be fun for all kind of players, and best rewards for the most skilled ones.

I hope that could help, thanks for reading and sorry for the poor english (not my first language).

Hmm thats a bit too complicated for my genius level brain. I was thinking more of a simple elegant system:

No more than 99 people can enter and the object of the challenge is to enter and then after a 5 minute waiting for people to enter, everyone starts to crawl on their stomachs untill either they reach the finish line which is the same distance from valkurm dunes to lets say the cloister of flames or untill a random mob aggros you and you die and have the chance to start over again.

Now this would be a true endgame challenge.

lol Gennadi.

I don't think I even want a save option like Nyzul. I like that system, but (as I'm currently facing in my Nyzul climb) one player can hold the group back, making everyone repeat floors and feel like they're wasting time/tags. I'd rather see a system where we start from the beginning each time. This way, it's a pick-up-and-go event for everyone who can make it. I would like see objectives, like Nyzul, that you have to complete in order to unlock a door/teleporter.

I really don't want to see heavy restrictions (6 man only), but it would be great if the difficulty scaled to the number of participants. Perhaps part of the objective is to kill a number of NMs equal to the number of players who entered with your group before you can proceed to the next stage (whatever that may be). Please please please... no time restrictions! And don't force me out of the event if I get disconnected and have to log back in 5 minutes later!

I have high hopes for this system ^^. The OP is right about the loot.... there needs to be meaningful rewards for success here... no niche junk like MMM. Besides desirable drops from NMs and hidden treasure caskets, allow us to accumulate points based on how far we made it in a given run. Let those points be exchanged for USEFUL rewards. Even if it's not new items, let us spend those points on Ancient Currency, WoE coins, Abyssea trophies, etc. Those are things that players want (a lot of) and will keep us coming back for more.

This seems like something they intended to be in FFXI long long ago at launch

Look at how Fort Ghelsba is laid out. Orcs move in groups, tunnels into open areas, multiple levels and layers and going in deeper the enemies get tougher. Of course it was completely ignored 'cause everyone has to bee line to selbina...

But yeah, it should be something like that. Give a feeling of exploration, and give a feeling of accomplishment for defeating strong foes.

I believe the maps for this have been in the .dat for a long time and its similiar to einherjar in that it has 4-5 big rooms. Perhaps SE can redo MMM, i enjoyed that and I really thought the NM MMM was a great idea, but was hard to get people to do it. I had orginally tried to get the refresh body and the mage feet from there but there was better and easier alternatives in salvage available.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by OgreBattle

This seems like something they intended to be in FFXI long long ago at launch

Look at how Fort Ghelsba is laid out. Orcs move in groups, tunnels into open areas, multiple levels and layers and going in deeper the enemies get tougher.

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I'm not sure that they have this in mind long time ago, but i have that same feeling when i look at King Ranperre's Tomb.
Half dungeon, half cave, even some areas shaped like a maze on the outside (i'm talking about the spook spawn area) or the large one with goblins and coffers, classic enemies like bats, skeletons and slimes and another map underground with different families of monsters and a big dragon at the end. Maybe there are more good examples of this, but classic rpg area like this one, with that "fantasy adventure" feel, i think it really works for this new event.
I'll even add some retro-looking set of equipment into the mix, but that's just me i guess xD

I don't mean the implementation of this extra feature... but I mean that they intended the game to be a dungeon crawl experience (but then gave no exp or combat incentives to be fighting mobs of orcs vs pulling a single rabbit from the beach)

Just as samurai AF has tanking abilities and Ninja wasn't meant to blink tank, a lot of what S-E intended really exploded into itty bitty pieces when in the hands of the players.

Oh i see, sorry misunderstood, yes it does happens quite often that their plans don't come out as they intended, like abyssea be almost all duo-able with whm and mnk and such. I think they find the solution to this with the test server, with direct access to the player feedback and an entire server as testing grounds, that should at least reduce this kind of problems. One of my greatest fear for this new event (to be honest for every new event) is that somebody found the usual two job combination that can easily clear the all thing, so that nobody want to to try play it with other jobs or more people. Because of that i was asking for challenge and at least full party, to avoid another shinryu. Also no more !! proc like i said, i'm not against them in general but we have aby, vw and dyna like this (really hope they don't put this in ein and nyzul ;_; ) nobody wants the game to be all the same, keep it different!

I think the dungeon crawler [dev1053] needs to have a few things to be a success:

notorious monsters unique to event
6man maximum
designed for lvl 99 players
gears unique to the event that can be upgraded
additional drops for upgrading gear
instanced event

Now here are things that i think would make this system AWESOME:

Randomly generated floor layouts
Maze like floors that make you feel like you're exploring
Coffers and ??? NM pops and locked doors (keys drop that floor, etc)
Secret tunnels
Difficulty setting

I hope its like wow dungeon system with auto ques for parties.

I'd bet money it works like totorak and dezmael in FFXIV.

I've been thinking about this after running through some VW parties with new players (to VW) and half the fun/frustration was getting people through places like Jugner [S] to the pop location.

What I'm not interested in: a rehash of MMM. That is a fun system, but I think it's best left alone.

What I AM very interested in: *Dare I say it....* more Abyssea content. Abyssea is a fun and complex system, but it significantly lacks the adventure of exploring areas and focuses on fighting the same mob repeatedly.

What I am getting at is this- Abyssea dungeons would be crazy fun I think. Let us use the atma we've worked so hard to obtain, but let us use it in new areas designed for level 99, where the focus is not around weakness targeting, or XP parties. Imagine exploring a place like Quicksand Caves that is all interconnected, or Pso'xja, or even somewhere like Aydeewa Subterrane.

Mix it up though! I don't mind seeing the same map textures/models, but change it up on us, perhaps to where the map changes periodically.

If the dungeon crawl system was tied to Abyssea, I would love to see more storyline. Reveal some details about the amorphic mobs, Cacturae, etc.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by svengalis

I hope its like wow dungeon system with auto ques for parties.

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Waves of mobs and boss fights in epic settings with story lines and quests attached? If only we could have nice things like that.

Honestly, the current dungeon crawls should be rehashed before adding any new systems. And use old, existing dungeons with new quests/challenges, versus creating another set of 6+ zones that no one ever goes in to do broken fights.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by OgreBattle

I don't mean the implementation of this extra feature... but I mean that they intended the game to be a dungeon crawl experience (but then gave no exp or combat incentives to be fighting mobs of orcs vs pulling a single rabbit from the beach)

Just as samurai AF has tanking abilities and Ninja wasn't meant to blink tank, a lot of what S-E intended really exploded into itty bitty pieces when in the hands of the players.

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if that's true, then why does my whm af1 hands have str on it? ...huh?

let's admit it, SE is terrible at releasing job-specific gear, among other things...

Hope the next two new contents will be in similar vein of Abyssea and become Abyssea Version 2.0. Fun, easy, accessible, and addictive!!

Well legion so far has been a bust unless your in a huge LS def not a pick-up-able addition. New nyzul i havent played yet but def not a total new experience if ya have done the old. And honestly im not looking forward to the pokemon playable monster battle system later this year. For me this new dungeon crawl system will be my go or stay factor for me.

I'd like to see:
dungeon progression
storyline
or
ability to do at different level restrictions with gear based on the group level range.

definately
use the above mentioned key/chest idea
time to complete not a problem, (easily cleared if the group can kill the mob at all)
no weakness targeting atma/abyssite system
no gear only useful in this event (inventory is already a problem)